PDA

View Full Version : No more assassins.



KSI_TheMadKing
07-08-2018, 02:45 AM
This game has way too many assassins. It has 6 Assassins right now. Not including the Assassin hybrids which turn out to be 11 total assassin's and assassin hybrids. I understand the new factions coming out and it's going to have two more assassins, or more technically one assassin and another assassin hybrid. I know they have a heavy and a Vanguard I'm looking forward to them. But this game is littered with assassins or assassin hybrids. the DLC Heroes you released there was one heavy (who's clarified as a hybrid for some reason I dont know what makes him a hybrid). I'm not asking for a change of any characters I'm not asking for a Nerf I'm not asking you to change the new Heroes in anyway. But in the future when you put out new Heroes can they Heavy's or vanguard's or mixture of the two they don't need to be assassin's or assassin hybrids.

JediGamerFurius
07-08-2018, 03:29 AM
We also have tank hybrid too. But I agree that maybe we need more vangard and tanks, and I'm pretty sure they are looking in to it too.

Hormly
07-08-2018, 03:38 AM
Agreed, no more dual weilding balerinas. We need some heavies, call the "thick update"

Jazz117Volkov
07-08-2018, 07:13 AM
In theory, hybrids should be the most interesting characters, and for the most part I think that has proven true.

I'm on board with the "thick update", more Lawbringer style heroes.

edit: To make slower heroes more viable, I think more of them need set-ups, like Shugoki's Demon's Embrace or Warden's Crushing Counter + shoulder bash combo. You spend the fight mostly dealing light damage, trying to set up your "big hit", and if it goes your way, you'll finish things by taking half their health. It's where Lawbringer starts to fall down, he has some great moves but nothing aside from shove-on-block (which is getting removed, iirc) is guaranteed.

If we look at a character like Shaman, she has high spam capability, huge agility, an unblockable, and a huge damage dealing combo (bleed bite) that returns health. And another hero who has huge damage dealing combos is Centurion, who is also a very fast character.

ChampionRuby50g
07-08-2018, 07:18 AM
Agreed with the less assassin mentality. Personally Iíve never been much of a fan of pure heavy classes, even though I got a rep 50 LB whose a heavy hybrid. That may change with the new faction heroes. Personally id really like more pure vanguard classes.

Darkmight_cz
07-08-2018, 08:20 AM
I agree that assassins are all over the place sometimes conq or Lb but mostly everyone playing assassin. Why? You can answer that question by yourself 😉 fast att spam, superior dodges + deflects make them more viable +they can parry same way as vanguards and heavyes so where is downside to playing assa hmm? 😁

Devils-_-legacy
07-08-2018, 11:51 AM
I agree that assassins are all over the place sometimes conq or Lb but mostly everyone playing assassin. Why? You can answer that question by yourself 😉 fast att spam, superior dodges + deflects make them more viable +they can parry same way as vanguards and heavyes so where is downside to playing assa hmm? 😁
Well Reflex guard and deflects are highly situational also fast attacks arnt just an assassin thing kensie conq.
I'm hoping for more heavy's vanguards after the new fraction with the way there designing kits now they could be amazing I'm personally hoping for a war hammer/maul

MuscleTech12018
07-08-2018, 12:16 PM
LOL. But without assasins this game would die ... nobody wants anymore to play hard classes without the op status.

Halvtand
07-08-2018, 02:05 PM
As a heavy main I agree completely. It have been too long with only three heroes and two hybrids to play.


LOL. But without assasins this game would die ... nobody wants anymore to play hard classes without the op status.

1. We're not saying that the assassins should be removed, or that no more should be added in the future. We just want to even out the balance a bit with a few more vanguards and heavies.
2. If you're the kind of player who only plays a certain hero because it is broken you should be ashamed of both your mentality and reasoning skills, what says that a heavy or vanguard cannot be OP?
3. This game has been pretty consistently declared dying since launch. Statements like that have no power here.

Helnekromancer
07-08-2018, 04:28 PM
Don't understand why Assassins are the safest, easiest class to play in this game.

In games like League of Legends Assassins have a high risk, high reward, playstyle that can easily be countered by tanks or healers. 100-0 squishy targets if they are lefted by themselves. Only good at killing 1 person almost instantly and that's it.

But with For Honor, they have the fastest running speed, fastest attacks, safe unblockables that give guaranteed damage,super armor, and good mix ups. Only downside they have is there health pool and that is barely anything. Having a team full of Assassins should put your team at a disadvantage but in For Honor it isn't.

I feel bad for the new players who have to deal with all these assassins and assassin hybrids when they want to play a pure vanguard/tank who just get fed up with dying and pick one of the assassins just so they can enjoy the game.

Maybe I just play to many mobas but Assassins should not be the safest, easiest, strongest class in the game since release.

Charmzzz
07-09-2018, 07:57 AM
Don't understand why Assassins are the safest, easiest class to play in this game.

In games like League of Legends Assassins have a high risk, high reward, playstyle that can easily be countered by tanks or healers. 100-0 squishy targets if they are lefted by themselves. Only good at killing 1 person almost instantly and that's it.

But with For Honor, they have the fastest running speed, fastest attacks, safe unblockables that give guaranteed damage,super armor, and good mix ups. Only downside they have is there health pool and that is barely anything. Having a team full of Assassins should put your team at a disadvantage but in For Honor it isn't.

I feel bad for the new players who have to deal with all these assassins and assassin hybrids when they want to play a pure vanguard/tank who just get fed up with dying and pick one of the assassins just so they can enjoy the game.

Maybe I just play to many mobas but Assassins should not be the safest, easiest, strongest class in the game since release.

I don't know which game you play, but it is not For Honor...

Take a full Assassin Team and go against Raider, Lawbringer, Kensei and Conqueror. Have fun losing.

ChampionRuby50g
07-09-2018, 08:22 AM
I don't know which game you play, but it is not For Honor...

Take a full Assassin Team and go against Raider, Lawbringer, Kensei and Conqueror. Have fun losing.

Whatís your point? You chose 4 heroes out of 18. Iíve seen plenty of full assassin teams at my MMR come out on top. What if itís a team of HL, Cent Shugo and Warlord? You canít guarantee that the assassin team wonít win, so why are you acting that way?

Charmzzz
07-09-2018, 09:24 AM
What’s your point? You chose 4 heroes out of 18. I’ve seen plenty of full assassin teams at my MMR come out on top. What if it’s a team of HL, Cent Shugo and Warlord? You can’t guarantee that the assassin team won’t win, so why are you acting that way?

My point is that people in this Thread claimed Assassins being OP, again, and that this is certainly not the case in 4v4 where static guard heroes, even those you mentioned, are superior to most Assassins. Full Assassin Teams mostly s*ck when it comes to Team Fights.

A Team of HL, Cent, Shugo and Warlord is superior to a Team of PK, Shinobi, Zerker and Shaman for example. The amount of unblockables, tankyness and Cutscenes is just better than 1-2 500ms Attacks more.

I cannot guarantee that the Assassins won't win, but on the same skill levels it is very likely that they lose.

DrinkinMyStella
07-09-2018, 09:48 AM
im fine with fighting against assassins, when you kensei its an easy win for me.

bananaflow2017
07-09-2018, 09:49 AM
My point is that people in this Thread claimed Assassins being OP, again, and that this is certainly not the case in 4v4 where static guard heroes, even those you mentioned, are superior to most Assassins. Full Assassin Teams mostly s*ck when it comes to Team Fights.

A Team of HL, Cent, Shugo and Warlord is superior to a Team of PK, Shinobi, Zerker and Shaman for example. The amount of unblockables, tankyness and Cutscenes is just better than 1-2 500ms Attacks more.

I cannot guarantee that the Assassins won't win, but on the same skill levels it is very likely that they lose.

I think the salt for the assasins is more theire 1v1 performance and the ability to let u sweat with an mostly easy playstyle. There are some assasins who are a bit harder to play like zerk, but when u see an orochi or a pk with theire lightspam.... itís easy to do and quiet safe.
In 4v4 they are a lot weaker. Many vanguards and heavies shine in 4v4...
or have a look at lb... if u have 4v4 clash the lb will throw 2 bombs and itís gg...

SpaceJim12
07-09-2018, 10:00 AM
What’s your point? You chose 4 heroes out of 18. I’ve seen plenty of full assassin teams at my MMR come out on top. What if it’s a team of HL, Cent Shugo and Warlord? You can’t guarantee that the assassin team won’t win, so why are you acting that way?

HL and Shugo can crush full assassins team really fast in 4v4. HL is good counter pick for every assassin in the game, include Bers (which is OP for sure). With second skill for chain increase dmg and 180 gear score HL is ultimate kill machine. Same with Shugo.
And if you add Cent with bunch of control moves...


There are some assasins who are a bit harder to play like zerk, but when u see an orochi or a pk with theire lightspam.... it’s easy to do and quiet safe.

Zerk is harder to play? Really? Light spam maybe a problem on consoles. But on PC it's nothing special. LB in duel could crush lightspamers easily, just need patience.

bananaflow2017
07-09-2018, 10:39 AM
@charmz
Just saying that zerk is harder to play than other assasins. U simply need a really good feintgame. With orochi u need r1 and a strong finger....

And yes I play on console. Not saying, that itís unbeatable, just saying that itís easy to perform and hard to counter.

ChampionRuby50g
07-09-2018, 10:46 AM
My point is that people in this Thread claimed Assassins being OP, again, and that this is certainly not the case in 4v4 where static guard heroes, even those you mentioned, are superior to most Assassins. Full Assassin Teams mostly s*ck when it comes to Team Fights.

A Team of HL, Cent, Shugo and Warlord is superior to a Team of PK, Shinobi, Zerker and Shaman for example. The amount of unblockables, tankyness and Cutscenes is just better than 1-2 500ms Attacks more.

I cannot guarantee that the Assassins won't win, but on the same skill levels it is very likely that they lose.

I mentioned it because you picked the top 3 Dominion characters, and the best duelist (Conq, 60%)

When it comes to random dom matches, when players arenít grouped up, the team composition is usually all over the place, and in my experience itís rare to find all the top picks on the same team. Sure they are there often, but usually not all at once.

Assassins have a lot of tools to punish UBS, like HLs with dodge attacks. Shugo isnít a great pick anywhere.

But, I just wanted to know your reasoning and you gave it.

SpaceJim12
07-09-2018, 11:40 AM
Assassins have a lot of tools to punish UBS, like HLs with dodge attacks.

Maybe in duels. In Dominion nowadays you probably see 4v4 fights or 1v2/3/4 fights. No duels in dominion anymore. And in 4v4 situation HL hell of a mess. You can't dodge from multiple attacks, and at the same time Shugo and HL have huge AOE dmg. And you really care less about lightspam or anything like that. You have tons of hyperarmor.
Sure in any situation could be damn good assassin player and really bad HL player. But this a matter of skill now. And situation could be reverse as well.

SwellChemosabe
07-09-2018, 01:08 PM
I'd like to point out that without assassins there'd be no risk at all to players who like to turtle up and parry. I've mained berserker since season 2 and i can say with 100% confidence that without my ability to feint heavies into lights, dodge attacks, and fast mix up game a lot of vanguard or heavy players would only need to sit back and wait for the parry. "you can't parry lights that fast, it's impossible" respectfully, i call ********. i run into players who can parry my lights all the time. "Of course you're defending assassins, you're playing an S tier hero" to which i say, sure but i played him for 3 seasons before he got his rework and nobody really complained about him until he got the rework. adapt and over come my friends.

HOWEVER, i do agree with this post in the sense that the next heroes to come out should be primarily vanguards and heavies. Playing against whole teams of assassins isn't uncommon and gets pretty boring after a bit. There are days when i look forward to running into a shugo, a lawbringer, a warden even. Give me a fight that isn't 80% dodge attacks and 15% cheese spams like orochi's light attacks or PK's zone attacks.

Charmzzz
07-09-2018, 01:16 PM
HOWEVER, i do agree with this post in the sense that the next heroes to come out should be primarily vanguards and heavies. Playing against whole teams of assassins isn't uncommon and gets pretty boring after a bit. There are days when i look forward to running into a shugo, a lawbringer, a warden even. Give me a fight that isn't 80% dodge attacks and 15% cheese spams like orochi's light attacks or PK's zone attacks.

Yeah, I prefer 90% Stampede, Impale, Crushing Charge, and Demon Embrace Cutscenes, too. *sarcasm off*

I prefer fighting Assassins because they DON'T have those cheesy ganking moves or playstyle like alot of Vanguards / Heavies have. Look at Raider unparryable, unblockable, massive damage with wide AOE chained Zone. Or Kensei having 360į, 500ms, 20 Damage Zone. Or Conq being almost like Superman when having Revenge, unkillable with the cheesiest move besides HL kick / grab...

SwellChemosabe
07-09-2018, 01:29 PM
Every hero has cheese they can abuse in 4v4. Maybe it's because the guys I que with play heroes like warlord, raider, kensie etc. And so I don't have as hard of a time playing against those characters but I'd prefer that over shaman+insert bleed inducing character, or orochi's light spam or, in general, any full team of assassin's exploiting the cheese. I know how to beat it but it's exhausting over time. I say this only because that's who I run into the most this season and frankly I'd just like to face other heroes more often.

Charmzzz
07-09-2018, 02:11 PM
Every hero has cheese they can abuse in 4v4. Maybe it's because the guys I que with play heroes like warlord, raider, kensie etc. And so I don't have as hard of a time playing against those characters but I'd prefer that over shaman+insert bleed inducing character, or orochi's light spam or, in general, any full team of assassin's exploiting the cheese. I know how to beat it but it's exhausting over time. I say this only because that's who I run into the most this season and frankly I'd just like to face other heroes more often.

Not every Hero has Cutscenes available where you lose control over your Character for 5 sec and everyone can beat you up...

SwellChemosabe
07-09-2018, 02:23 PM
True but those cutscenes can be avoided. Cent's can't rendered useless if you fight them out in the open away from walls or ledges, shugos demons embrace can be dodged and punished if you're not cornered, lawbringers flow can be dodged and has slow recovery. Every hero's moveset has a viable counter that works very well under the right circumstances. If you're getting ganked it's unfortunately a lot harder but still possible.

Charmzzz
07-09-2018, 02:35 PM
True but those cutscenes can be avoided. Cent's can't rendered useless if you fight them out in the open away from walls or ledges, shugos demons embrace can be dodged and punished if you're not cornered, lawbringers flow can be dodged and has slow recovery. Every hero's moveset has a viable counter that works very well under the right circumstances. If you're getting ganked it's unfortunately a lot harder but still possible.

No. You cannot avoid any of these if you get ganked by people who know how to "(ab)use" the mechanics. Just do a GB attempt with the correct timing and every Cutscene move will hit for a 100% kill. That's a reason why they "nerfed" the Bleed Team (PK, Nobu) so Shaman does not get her Cutscene so easily and unavoidable. They literally nerfed 2 Characters (PK into oblivion) because Shaman is too strong in 4v4 together with them. THAT'S how good the Dev's are in balancing. ;)

The real Reworks (Nobu and PK were not real ones...) produced only very cheesy and too strong Heroes. Kensei, Conq, Zerker, Highlander, Orochi - they all are much stronger (Shaman Level) compared to the non-reworked Heroes. LB and Raider keeping up with them is due to Feats and Impale / Stampede / Raider Zone which is, imo, very cheesy and not a playstyle I prefer to see in my Matches. Massively frustrating. That's why I joined the FOTM Train - when you only face those Heroes you have to pick something comparable strong, or take lose after lose after lose...

MuscleTech12018
07-09-2018, 07:05 PM
No. You cannot avoid any of these if you get ganked by people who know how to "(ab)use" the mechanics. Just do a GB attempt with the correct timing and every Cutscene move will hit for a 100% kill. That's a reason why they "nerfed" the Bleed Team (PK, Nobu) so Shaman does not get her Cutscene so easily and unavoidable. They literally nerfed 2 Characters (PK into oblivion) because Shaman is too strong in 4v4 together with them. THAT'S how good the Dev's are in balancing. ;)

The real Reworks (Nobu and PK were not real ones...) produced only very cheesy and too strong Heroes. Kensei, Conq, Zerker, Highlander, Orochi - they all are much stronger (Shaman Level) compared to the non-reworked Heroes. LB and Raider keeping up with them is due to Feats and Impale / Stampede / Raider Zone which is, imo, very cheesy and not a playstyle I prefer to see in my Matches. Massively frustrating. That's why I joined the FOTM Train - when you only face those Heroes you have to pick something comparable strong, or take lose after lose after lose...

It;s funny how an assasin main considers EVERY OTHER MOVE CHEESY :))

He has not a single cheesy move, he is onorable by playing assasin classes :))

Devils-_-legacy
07-09-2018, 08:48 PM
It;s funny how an assasin main considers EVERY OTHER MOVE CHEESY :))

He has not a single cheesy move, he is onorable by playing assasin classes :))

No matter what archetype you play you have to admit that cut scenes are one of most annoying moves in the game

KSI_TheMadKing
07-09-2018, 08:59 PM
I would like to state that this thread wasn't ment to debate whether assassins or OP or not. It was just ment to state that there are just to many in the game.

TatoRezo
07-09-2018, 09:19 PM
Agreed

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
07-09-2018, 09:43 PM
I agree the game has a unhealthy ratio of assassins however I think the devs are doing it on purpose to make the game more fast pace which is understandable. They could give heavies tactical insertion as a feat to speed things up for them.

UbiInsulin
07-09-2018, 10:39 PM
I would like to state that this thread wasn't ment to debate whether assassins or OP or not. It was just ment to state that there are just to many in the game.

Got it. We've made sure to pass this feedback on to the team based on previous threads as well, so we will continue to let them know players would like to see something other than Assassins.

Darkmight_cz
07-10-2018, 08:52 AM
Got it. We've made sure to pass this feedback on to the team based on previous threads as well, so we will continue to let them know players would like to see something other than Assassins.

That's nice 😁