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View Full Version : How about getting rid of the activity icon?



CandleInTheDark
07-03-2018, 03:26 AM
A few times people have made the argument that people see the low activity and they decide nope, not waiting that long, even the devs said they wondered if low on everything had a psychological effect.

So I was wondering, even if as a temporary experiment, would it be worth removing the activity counter? I was wondering if without the low icon more people might go to the other game modes and yes some people might wind up waiting a couple minutes but people can choose how long they wish to wait and they might also get games quicker.

Mia.Nora
07-03-2018, 04:16 AM
In the absence of "Expected Wait Time" feature that other games have for queueing, I think this would be a complete disaster. At best it would mean people would not even queue for a medium activity Tribute since they would not be able to know if there is any activity at all.

Changes that need to be done in For Honor queue / MM system is not about player behaviour. Players are the same people everywhere, MMO queues, MOBA queues, FPS queues don't have the problem we have here. No need to reinvent the wheel thinking that FH has a unique problem, because it does not.

What needs to be done is simple;

Step 1: combine queues and allow people to queue for more than one game mode at a time. This has been a thing since late 90s, seriously I don't understand how they failed to have it here.

Step 2: allow players to adjust starting and maximum loosened parameters for matchmaking. If someone wants a quick game they still have to wait for 2+ minutes for parameters to loosen since it never ever finds a game with full strict. This is a wasted 2 minutes per match. If someone wants to wait however it takes for a balanced duel let them set skill to narrow and not loosen anymore.

Step 3: Get rid of pseudo ranked modes we have and replace them with exact same system MKX / IJ2 uses for duels, and MOBAs for 4v4s and base MM only on ranked performance. And increase ranked rewards to incentivize.

CandleInTheDark
07-03-2018, 12:58 PM
While I don't disagree with your solutions (I like them, I just feel this is quicker in the meantime), I feel that it would boost the player base of some games. I know there have been quite a few who have said they won't try for a low activity game, they might if they don't see activity. Also to consider, while we older players know the general activities, we have had a lot of new players recently. While I feel a bunch would have gone to dominion, it was the mode that never fell below very high or high on release, how many new players do you figure looked at other games first and saw low activity so moved on?

Halvtand
07-03-2018, 02:00 PM
In the absence of "Expected Wait Time" feature that other games have for queueing, I think this would be a complete disaster. At best it would mean people would not even queue for a medium activity Tribute since they would not be able to know if there is any activity at all.

Changes that need to be done in For Honor queue / MM system is not about player behaviour. Players are the same people everywhere, MMO queues, MOBA queues, FPS queues don't have the problem we have here. No need to reinvent the wheel thinking that FH has a unique problem, because it does not.

What needs to be done is simple;

Step 1: combine queues and allow people to queue for more than one game mode at a time. This has been a thing since late 90s, seriously I don't understand how they failed to have it here.

Step 2: allow players to adjust starting and maximum loosened parameters for matchmaking. If someone wants a quick game they still have to wait for 2+ minutes for parameters to loosen since it never ever finds a game with full strict. This is a wasted 2 minutes per match. If someone wants to wait however it takes for a balanced duel let them set skill to narrow and not loosen anymore.

Step 3: Get rid of pseudo ranked modes we have and replace them with exact same system MKX / IJ2 uses for duels, and MOBAs for 4v4s and base MM only on ranked performance. And increase ranked rewards to incentivize.

An estimated wait time would be so much more helpful than estimated activity. I’ve queued up for low activity modes some times and found a game within a minute and have been kept waiting for several minutes on high activity. That would absolutely help.
Queueing for several modes at once would also be awesome. They have it in rocket league as well and it’s amazing. You generally find a match within a minute or two.
Manually adjusting parameters would also be very nice.
I am not familiar with the games you refer to, but if their MM is good then I guess you have a point.
My own suggestion would be to implement the same skill evaluation that is now used in ranked on the casual modes as well. Then have that as your skill rating. Now that I’ve found a group to play with a bit more often we joke about the skill indicator’s inconsistency. One game you’re higher than the team, next match you’re on par. Your skill shouldn’t be able to shift that much in just one match.

Mia.Nora
07-03-2018, 02:02 PM
While I don't disagree with your solutions (I like them, I just feel this is quicker in the meantime), I feel that it would boost the player base of some games. I know there have been quite a few who have said they won't try for a low activity game, they might if they don't see activity. Also to consider, while we older players know the general activities, we have had a lot of new palyers recently. While I feel a bunch would have gone to dominion, it was the mode that never fell below very high or high on release, how many new players do you figure looked at other games first and saw low activity so moved on?

I understand your perspective and the effect it may have on human psychology, but I think you are underestimating the negative effects it would have for queuing for a game mode and getting nothing for 15 minutes.

If this happens to a newbie, they may not know at all that this mode is extremely unpopular and that it would be different if they had queued for a popular one. If this happens to a veteran, from that point on they would not risk queueing again even if that mode might have better activity at that moment.

Clarity is always better in user experience. This is UX 101. Look at successful games and you will see that they already provide their players with way more information than FH does, like how many minutes&seconds they will wait in queue if they queue as a midlaner or as a support in LoL. For Honor has really bad clarity and until we pushed for it initially we did not even have actual ping information just some stupid color bars.

So if anything they should add a timer with estimated wait time to replace activity.


An estimated wait time would be so much more helpful than estimated activity. I’ve queued up for low activity modes some times and found a game within a minute and have been kept waiting for several minutes on high activity. That would absolutely help.
Queueing for several modes at once would also be awesome. They have it in rocket league as well and it’s amazing. You generally find a match within a minute or two.
Manually adjusting parameters would also be very nice.
I am not familiar with the games you refer to, but if their MM is good then I guess you have a point.
My own suggestion would be to implement the same skill evaluation that is now used in ranked on the casual modes as well. Then have that as your skill rating. Now that I’ve found a group to play with a bit more often we joke about the skill indicator’s inconsistency. One game you’re higher than the team, next match you’re on par. Your skill shouldn’t be able to shift that much in just one match.

I know right?!

Problem with For Honor is that, just like they did with their network architecture, they tried to reinvent the wheel when it came to MM and ended up with that square shaped block. Since then they have been trying to improve the corners.

MM is extremely simple to handle. You start as unranked, get pitted against a mid range opponent(s), then based on your performance get pitted against better/worse until it narrows down enough. Once you get a ranking, the more you win the higher your ranking climbs and face better players or vice versa. In For Honor they try to quantify 'skill' in a formula they made up and it has been the worst MM in my 25 years of gaming since its start.

CandleInTheDark
07-03-2018, 02:10 PM
I understand your perspective and the effect it may have on human psychology, but I think you are underestimating the negative effects it would have for queuing for a game mode and getting nothing for 15 minutes.

If this happens to a newbie, they may not know at all that this mode is extremely unpopular and that it would be different if they had queued for a popular one. If this happens to a veteran, from that point on they would not risk queueing again even if that mode might have better activity at that moment.

Clarity is always better in user experience. This is UX 101. Look at successful games and you will see that they already provide their players with way more information than FH does, like how many minutes&seconds they will wait in queue if they queue as a midlaner or as a support in LoL. For Honor has really bad clarity and until we pushed for it initially we did not even have actual ping information just some stupid color bars.

So if anything they should add a timer with estimated wait time to replace activity.

Fair point I get that also and hadn't thought about the times the game mode is still dead only we don't know about it.

You raise a good point about queueing as a midlaner or support, I had asked in the Q&A about matchmaking after character select and they said it would take away the ability for players to work in team composition. My group feels that in ranked certainly even grouped players should have a vanguard, heavy, hybrid and assassin hard coded into the rules and if there was matchmaking after select, while I can take it or leave it with groups, in pugs at least the matchmaking would be able to work that composition with the characters in its matchmaking pool.