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View Full Version : POLL: For players flying with -Cockpit Always On/No Externals-



DKoor
02-21-2007, 01:55 PM
Situation:

Combat.
Someone damages enemy fighter it starts to emit grey (or black smoke) indicating engine damage, and E/A doesn't have anyone on his 12' OC, another words does not represent immediate threat to anyone.
You didn't engaged that aircraft before.
Here's question:

MEGILE
02-21-2007, 01:55 PM
KILL!

striker-85
02-21-2007, 02:12 PM
Yes, I used to leave them but after having a few turn and bounce me I quickly learned it's kill or be killed.

Viper2005_
02-21-2007, 02:21 PM
It depends on 2 factors:

1) Is there a more serious threat around?

2) Is somebody else still trying to claim "ownership" over the kill?

If the answer to both of those questions is no then I'll attack.

I therefore answered "Sometimes" in the poll.

WWSpinDry
02-21-2007, 02:29 PM
It totally depends on the situation.

Assumption: this isn't some DF server furball, and I'm not flying solo. If the nme has healthy buddies, kill them first, then mop up the stragglers if possible; if I can't get to them maybe someone else in the formation can. It's not who gets the kill credit, only that the nme is neutralized to the maximum extent possible.

If the damaged nme is truly no longer a factor and chasing him/her/it down would mean breaking formation for no good reason, without being ordered to by wing lead? He escapes.

If the situation were a free-for-all DF furball, everyone's flying solo? I'd expect whoever did the damage to call me a kill-stealing schmuck if I went for it. If I did, I'd probably not be the sort of person to care, eh? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

ElAurens
02-21-2007, 02:57 PM
I will kill him.

I have been attacked too many times by guys in planes that a real pilot would have gotten out of in a hurry.

F0_Dark_P
02-21-2007, 03:04 PM
Depends on how much damaged he is, just because he is smoking dosent mean he is out of action, if it looks like he still can put up a fight then i would engage him but in otherwise no, you must assess the situation http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LStarosta
02-21-2007, 03:54 PM
Yes, but only if someone is already trying to shoot it, in which case I will stay behind them and try to fire at the E/A over their shoulder.

Huxley_S
02-21-2007, 04:10 PM
I'm sure that in WWII, kill stealing was not the big issue that it is in IL2 online servers!

The issue only arises because IL2 is not smart enough to award points fairly for kills or the part you played in a kill. If it did, people wouldn't whine so much.

DKoor
02-21-2007, 04:22 PM
Situation is "as is". You are playing and you know only what I wrote in my initial post, there is no "if this..." or "if that..." - you don't know that. You know only what I wrote, you see E/A emit smoke and no friendly is in danger by him right now.

Anyhow this thread is not about kill stealing since everyone has his picture what exactly kill steal is.

russ.nl
02-21-2007, 04:23 PM
I have a simple rule for myself. If he is able to get home I shoot him down. I ones was blamed for having no honor. I shot a p-38 into flames and kept shooting at him till his tailboom broke off. Everybody know that a burning P-38 can fly a long time.
I just replied that I will happely take you as a POW but you are not going home. I have honor http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

Phas3e
02-21-2007, 04:36 PM
To me, if hes heading home hes beaten, he doesnt need to be a flaming wreak.

Dagnabit
02-22-2007, 12:14 AM
Good poll DKoor http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

But I didnt vote because I am still relatively new to the game and I use the externals at times. However I have started to use the cockpit for combat, the dogfights are much more realistic and challenging.
I would like to add that trained combat pilots flying for their respective countries are under orders to kill the enemy. The only reason I can see for ANY hesitation, is if it is going to put oneself or a squadmate, into an unacceptable level of danger. If the enemy is already smoking thats all the better. Chances are fair to middeling that he has damage that will reduce his effectiveness
I love the big furballs (dont we all!!) and even when focused on chasing down one specific enemy plane, if another crosses my sight picture I will always take whatever shot is presented. Its very satisfying to turn an instant reflex snapshot into a flaming kill.
Good Hunting all.

DKoor
02-22-2007, 02:24 AM
I'd like to point out few things to be considered here... but be sure i don't like/want to influence on voting.

First duel between player and his foe with smoking engine is not a real duel, it's just a job. To finish him off. True I've seen smoking airplanes win the duel vs. "healthy" planes but that occurs rarely. If we are talking about contemporary fighters.

Second, on cockpit on/no externals servers, usually with some kind of stats, which are usually "serious" ones (I'm not implying that others are not serious), two things are typical (regarding combat):
-player with damaged plane will likely try to escape
-someone, who damaged that plane is counting him as his "kill", he didn't finished him because [insert your most probable reason here], my is he either run out of ammo or did not want to risk getting low on energy to finish him off

And third and perhaps most important, we aren't in WW2. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
We can simulate it, tho.
The closest thing to WW2 as far as this sim goes are COOP's, but the thread question isn't about COOP's only but DF servers as well.
In game you can leave your opponent, but truth to be told you can let him live in real combat too if you think that he doesn't represent a threat to you. It happened, it will happen. If no one sees it, it's all up to you. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Akronnick
02-22-2007, 02:34 AM
I wouldn't shoot for the same reasons that the person who smoked him broke off. A smoking engine = %50 chance the plane won't make it back. Even if he does, he's already out of the fight. On a server like Warclouds for example, there are stats and goals that take precidence over me getting a kill. I'd let him go because I don't want to waste my A)time, B)energy, or C)ammunition on a time bomb. In my reckoning, a single engine smoking more than a few klicks from home is already as good as dead.

mrsiCkstar
02-22-2007, 02:36 AM
In these kinds of situations I usually don't engage... he's already been attacked since he's damaged and he's probably heading home. I know the sweet feeling of making it back to base in a wrecked plane so I won't deny that from anybody. I'm just out there to have fun and I like to let other people have fun too.

I would keep an eye on him however while I was passing him... if I see him start to turn towards me I would engage.

Feathered_IV
02-22-2007, 03:39 AM
I may shoot. If he's not someone elses kill and he's sneaking out of the combat zone, then yes. If he's almost home after nursing a badly damaged crate, then I wouldn't want to take that away from him. On more than one occaision I've flown on the wing of a damaged opponent.

Different story if its a P-38 though. Kill em dead I say. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

rnzoli
02-22-2007, 03:48 AM
I would probably collide with him while trying to line up a shot during a high-speed pass http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Sandman_UK
02-22-2007, 04:11 AM
I chose No cos there was not the answer which i really wanted.

What i tend to do is that if there is no other enemy planes around then i cover the guy who made the guy smoke until his has downed his prey or ask s me to finish him off.

AlGroover
02-22-2007, 04:30 AM
I fly only offline with cockpit on and no icons. I will only go after the kill if I don't have to sacrifice E. Low and slow in a combat area is a very bad idea.

DKoor
02-22-2007, 04:56 AM
Originally posted by rnzoli:
I would probably collide with him while trying to line up a shot during a high-speed pass http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

Accidents happen...
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VV_Holdenb
02-22-2007, 05:00 AM
shoot it down - no mercy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

x6BL_Brando
02-22-2007, 05:21 AM
And third and perhaps most important, we aren't in WW2.
We can simulate it, tho.

Am I the only person that sees a contradiction here?
You start off talking about duelling - which is rather WW1 according to pilot records - then you say it's a game, then it's a simulation of WW2. Which do you want?

If you are fighting on a side, simulating a war situation, then your responsibilty is to prevent an enemy plane (and pilot) from getting home to be repaired and maybe shoot you (or one of your comrades) down another day.

If you're talking about a game, and personal 'point-scoring', then maybe you have to abide by the rules of arena-etiquette.

But you can't have it both ways http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

B

Ratsack
02-22-2007, 05:59 AM
If he's going to make it home, I will consider killing him. But first, I will make sure going after him doesn't set me up to killed by some bottom-dwelling dweeb.

I would next make sure that the plane who smoked him isn't setting up for another shot. If he is, I'll cover him while he does the deed. If not, I'll kill him.

So, in principle, kill him. No mercy, just self-preservation.



Ratsack

russ.nl
02-22-2007, 07:59 AM
I have to admit something. For the last month now orso I have been getting nice on servers. Leaving fights when I feel I have won. Not always ofcourse http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif If they get the message they go home but if they then turn there guns on me I will shoot them down into little peases. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

I ones tried to fly along side an enemy I shot up, this is a while back. It was in the 102nd coop ded. server. I had control over the whole Russian flight, I was the only human player on the Russian side. This time I was winning and I made a good couple of kills. Then at one point there was only one german plane left, a fighter. You could instantly see he's not AI and he was fighting of bravely all the Russian planes that were by then targeting him. I too tried to shoot him down but he was just not gonna give up. So I orderd all the Russian planes to go home and pulled up next to him. As soon as he sees me he turns into me killing us both... So the moral of this story is...kill'm all http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif Or just don't pul up next to then.

Diablo310th
02-22-2007, 08:06 AM
If he can make it back to base or engage another friendly I will attack. If he is leaking fuel I will attack. If his engine is smoking bad I won't. I figure he is out of action unless he turns to engage anothr friendly then again i will attack.

TgD Thunderbolt56
02-22-2007, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by Viper2005_:
It depends on 2 factors:

1) Is there a more serious threat around?

2) Is somebody else still trying to claim "ownership" over the kill?

If the answer to both of those questions is no then I'll attack.

I therefore answered "Sometimes" in the poll.

Ditto. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

DKoor
02-22-2007, 09:05 AM
Originally posted by x6BL_Brando:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">And third and perhaps most important, we aren't in WW2.
We can simulate it, tho.

Am I the only person that sees a contradiction here?
You start off talking about duelling - which is rather WW1 according to pilot records - then you say it's a game, then it's a simulation of WW2. Which do you want?

If you are fighting on a side, simulating a war situation, then your responsibilty is to prevent an enemy plane (and pilot) from getting home to be repaired and maybe shoot you (or one of your comrades) down another day.

If you're talking about a game, and personal 'point-scoring', then maybe you have to abide by the rules of arena-etiquette.

But you can't have it both ways http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

B </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Rather simple question with already provided answers too difficult for you? Or you are just in the bad mood so you have to take it out on someone?

Whatever it is, I don't really want to know. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BrotherVoodoo
02-22-2007, 09:46 AM
It depends if he is lookin at me funny or not.

Zoom2136
02-22-2007, 09:54 AM
I'll shoot if he is trying to make the line... after that I'll let him go...

BUT if their is a fresh plane in the area... I'll take care of him first... to many times I saw a friendly attack the plane I just crippled when their's a fresh one on my six... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

And I never shoot at a crippled landing plane... only blue player do that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BM357_Sniper
02-22-2007, 10:10 AM
Even if a smoking plane makes it home, the guy that shot him up is going to get the kill unless one of you guys starts putting some rounds into him. I leave them alone unless that smoking plane tries to stay in the fight and shoot at me or other friendlies.

DF servers are fun, but the fact that you can just respawn makes people make suicide runs all too often. It doesn't matter if you're the smoking plane and you stick around no matter what or if you are above watching and dive down just to get the kill when you know he's already going in at some point.

It is all mission specific. I keep seeing people saying "the point is to kill the fighters". Well, actually, no its not. It is to clear the way, when the threat is gone, its gone. Very rarely is the mission to ruthlessly chase down every plane until it is in a big ball of flames. When you do that you cross the line of simulation to gaming. I'm pretty sure you've noticed that the scripted objectives are almost always NOT aircraft destroyed. Read the brief.

x6BL_Brando
02-22-2007, 01:18 PM
Or you are just in the bad mood so you have to take it out on someone?

I'm sorry, I think you've taken my answer the wrong way. I'm suggesting that there are different answers also that exceed the parameters of the poll - concerning game vs simulation. It wasn't my intention to offend.

I happy to say I'm not in a bad mood - but thank you for your concern

B

DKoor
02-22-2007, 01:48 PM
OK.. now that we solved this, we can see how much people experiences differs.
Example:

Originally posted by Zoom2136:
And I never shoot at a crippled landing plane... only blue player do that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Actually one guy in Tempest (was some French nick) chased me all the way to my base (there were only two-three of us on server at the time) I didn't even noticed him. It wasn't a real chase it was more like he predicted which is my home base and took course there.
I was low on fuel and soon my engine quits. I glided fuel-less for quite some time (FW is actually quite good in this). But I barely made it, lowered my flaps and gears then *bang* holes all over my FW, guy catched up with me... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
I guess that this kinda doesn't count because I only ran outta fuel (I wasn't damaged).
Tried to find him later to no avail, I only catched up one poor P-38 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

domenlovrec
02-22-2007, 02:13 PM
I let them go. Blowing badly smoking plane out of the sky is for feeding your EGO. Cmon, smoking Bf109 - few minutes before engine is useless. Once i escorted damaged spitfire to his base (very remote airfield). We had a good fight and i hope he got my message.

Marcel_Albert
02-22-2007, 02:22 PM
If he's close to the ground or trying to land , i would not shoot him because that equals murdering a harmless pilot and i'd have bad counsciousness to do that IRL , granted he can kill me the day after if he survives , but the ennemy is the plane , not the pilot .

Well there isn't much logic in what i say since i often get to ground attack in my favourite planes and you kill plenty of people , but i don't know , killing a pilot with smoking plane close to the ground while he's harmless , i would not do .

But in any other situation , if he's not close to the ground , i just shoot it down , it's war after all that is simulated , anything ennemy that still flies needs to be shot down , pacification of air zone .

rnzoli
02-22-2007, 02:50 PM
the ennemy is the plane , not the pilot .
IRL kills were more valuable if the enemy pilot couldn't bail. Let's not mix game/sim and RL. The contemporary P-51 encounter reports are really an eye-opener - they strafed wounded crews even on the ground, after the E/A crashed. I am not saying you or I should play this game/sim the way it was in WWII, but beware that it was a horrible conflict with horrible events, including series of murders. Killing an enemy pilot doesn't even come close to killing civilians in terms of bad concience, if you know what I mean.

russ.nl
02-22-2007, 05:04 PM
This topic is mixing RL WW2 combat flying with beer sipping, comfy chair, I need a toilet brake flight simming.

This being a game instead of a sim if you kill any enemy that you spot, capable of fighting or not, is just wrong. To mix in some RL. The stories of pilots escorting the apponant or something like that are more exeption then rule. Ofcourse that apeals to us and those stories stick out above the noumerus other stories of pilots shooting there apponant down.

But it is all personal when, how and who you shoot down. And if this is a game or a sim. I sometimes get the feeling that people over here rather call this a sim so to sell to friends, colleagues and famely that they are not grown men playing computer games. We are grown men playing flight simulators on the computer. To me it is a game sub.cat. flight simulator.
I'm drifting way of topic now.

kit_lg2002
02-23-2007, 12:37 AM
I voted yes, as some other said its kill or be killed, and besides irl i guess any pilot would do the same.