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View Full Version : number 3, 5, etc "stealing" your target (#?@!!)



elphifou
02-17-2006, 08:08 AM
I think I've read that some (or maybe many) of you have already noticed this:

Number 3 or 5 seeming to rush to "steal" your target (sometimes at the risk of a deadly collision) or finish off an already dying enemy a/c that you should be credited with in the first place... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

I didn't care that much at first, but it seems to happen so often it really gets annoying at times. I'm a 56Ker so I play only offline, and I would "understand" the attitude online. But I didn't expect the apparent competitive attitude in an offline campaign...

Now, I'm trying to think sensibly about this. Is it just because #3 and #5 somewhat "lead" a pair and therefore are programmed to take more initiative ? Is it just that they show their limits as AI in grasping the situation ?
Or has this competitive attitude been programmed on purpose to stimulate us to improve our combat/flight skills?
... Or am I just getting paranoid ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

What do you guys think?

elphifou
02-17-2006, 08:08 AM
I think I've read that some (or maybe many) of you have already noticed this:

Number 3 or 5 seeming to rush to "steal" your target (sometimes at the risk of a deadly collision) or finish off an already dying enemy a/c that you should be credited with in the first place... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

I didn't care that much at first, but it seems to happen so often it really gets annoying at times. I'm a 56Ker so I play only offline, and I would "understand" the attitude online. But I didn't expect the apparent competitive attitude in an offline campaign...

Now, I'm trying to think sensibly about this. Is it just because #3 and #5 somewhat "lead" a pair and therefore are programmed to take more initiative ? Is it just that they show their limits as AI in grasping the situation ?
Or has this competitive attitude been programmed on purpose to stimulate us to improve our combat/flight skills?
... Or am I just getting paranoid ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

What do you guys think?

Chuck_Older
02-17-2006, 09:53 AM
Three words:

Shoot

Him

Down

This is a well known and old, old AI limitation. I don't know why, and I don't know what the goal was when they did it, but AI squadmates do things that are infuriating when you're behind a bandit. They could ignore the d@mn bogey all day sometimes, unless you're in a firing position. I've seen my wingman and an enemy fighter flying in flippin formation behind me...uh, hey...clear my six if it's all the same to you, pal! "You're clear" he says. Yeah, right

elphifou
02-17-2006, 10:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
They could ignore the d@mn bogey all day sometimes, unless you're in a firing position. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

exactly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Shooting him down doesn't inspire me that much. It's okay for a couple of times, but you don't really wanna do that, do you... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

Anyway, I know my question might be a bit redundant as I'm quite new in this forum. If anyone can link me to a previous thread discussing this issue...

SeaFireLIV
02-17-2006, 10:52 AM
I don`t and NEVER shoot down friendly AI, it just blows the whole fighting against a `common enemy` feeling. It`s also bad practise for online play when a HUMAN does it to you!

I really don`t get this problem much, but I use the TAB commands regularly WITH a voice-comms program that makes it quick and easy. `Break` or `Rejoin` (guaranteed to work until they`re attacked again) will get them off your bandit. Perhaps people don`t have time to use the TAB orders?

You could even enable PADLOCK and order the AI to attack a particular fighter, meaning they`ll leave yours alone, but I don`t bother with this.

A lot of people have a greater problem with AI kill-stealing than others and it seems to be mostly the Pacific fighter jocks. Perhaps there`s something in the PF code that`s causing this to happen more than say on the East or Western fronts? It`s also posibly a perceptive problem, a couple of AI does it, then it seems they ALL do it!

Dr...Watson
02-17-2006, 10:56 AM
I found online no problem with 56K. Loading missions took a bit longer but ping times were ok.

Browning50cal
02-17-2006, 12:47 PM
I'm a 56k'er too (for now) and my biggest problem was line drops or idle periods. The fact that I had PF running was causing delays in packet transmission that was exceeding max lag time as soon as every mission started. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Elphifou,

Check this out, your section leaders will not rest once they have decided that an aircraft is their target. Also, If you are in a fight with an aircraft and they release any ammunition in your direction, your wingman immediately engages (and more than likely within seconds will down the aircraft that you have been fighting for minutes). What works best for me, is to recall either your wingman, your flight, or your other section leader's flight as needed.

For example, If you are fighting somebody 1v1 and you are in a head-on with your enemy and your wingman say's "watch your 12o'clock, I got it, hold on." Then Immediately press Tab, 1, 9. Your wingman will rejoin on your tail before he gets too far out of position to affect your fight. This works in larger engagements too. If you are in a furball and you notice that all of a sudden three friendly aircraft are flying past you to shoot down your target (they don't overheat, they are faster), Tab, 6, 8, 2, and they will all break and get behind you and defend themselves as needed. Note that this works more often than not. About 70% of the time.

I understand what you mean about offline. When I am playing offline, I'm not really playing against anybody, so in essence the only reason I take off and fight is to get a higher documented number of kills.

Also for SeaFire54, It takes longer for a Wildcat to shoot down even a Zero with 4 50 caliber guns than it takes a 190A6 to shoot down 2 B-17's. That may be where this comes from.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e225/browning50cal/Iwo1.jpg

Sakai_Campaign2.0 at airwarfare.com (http://www.airwarfare.com/Sims/FB/fb_campaigns.htm#051)

B50

Rammjaeger
02-17-2006, 01:29 PM
I very much doubt that anyone ever used the term "kill stealing" in WW2 aerial combat. Even the smallest fighter unit was expected to work as a team with the aim of destroying enemy aircraft and protecting one's comrades. You can't blame members of your unit for killing off enemy aircraft you may have fatally damaged but that might as well return to their airbase in one piece and fight the next day as well.

Covino
02-17-2006, 01:48 PM
Let the AI get the kill, the more kills they get, the quicker they rise in rank and therefore the higher their skill level.

It's tough to code in the AI whether or not since a certain aircraft is still a threat because its different in every situation.

Imagine a 262 with an engine aflame? A threat... no. But what if it was on the tail of a B-17, just about to fire, then yes. So I guess Oleg decided to cover all bases by making the AI attack until the enemy is pretty much destroyed.

It is better than having the AI NOT attack enemy aircraft that ARE threats, no?

elphifou
02-17-2006, 03:01 PM
Rammjaeger:
Of course, I find the concept of "kill-stealing" completely absurd. Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough.

Rammjaeger & Covino:

I totally agree with you two. I don't blame AI for attacking the enemy and therefore defending the whole team. I reproach them for doing it in a rush (<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">as if</span> trying to steal a kill) and sometimes at the expense of safety.

Now, as Seafire & Browning suggested, maybe the best is to use Tab sensibly.

Thanks for your answers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

R_Target
02-17-2006, 03:50 PM
I'm usually so happy to see them actually engaging that I break off and go look for another bandit.