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View Full Version : A simple fix for anti-gank.



PDXGorechild
06-20-2018, 12:17 PM
I'm sure this must have been suggested before, but I don't remember seeing a thread so here goes -

*Drumroll*

Make it so if you get hit whilst under the effect of crowd control (Impale, Stampede, Caber toss etc, even wall stagger) you regain control of your character immediately. No more getting circle jerked whilst your character lies helpless on the floor, unless the enemy all time their hits at exactly the same time, which would be quite a feat considering latency and friendly fire etc.

The exception could be if your character is out of stamina, so that it can still be punished in the same way as it currently is in a 1v1.

Simples.

DrinkinMyStella
06-20-2018, 12:20 PM
yep I agree when in a gank if the enemies team interrupt a grab or cutscene then it should cancel out the rest of the cinematic and you should regain control especially if your in revenge. Nothing worse than being in revenge and then getting hugged by shut and then every one launches heavies.

PDXGorechild
06-20-2018, 12:25 PM
yep I agree when in a gank if the enemies team interrupt a grab or cutscene then it should cancel out the rest of the cinematic and you should regain control especially if your in revenge. Nothing worse than being in revenge and then getting hugged by shut and then every one launches heavies.

I think revenge should make you immune to crowd control effects for the duration, but that's a whole other thread.

Ah yes, people swinging wildly at you whilst you're over the shoulder of their fatboy companion having some cuddle time, another annoying and unrealistic scenario I forgot to mention.

Charmzzz
06-20-2018, 12:55 PM
I think revenge should make you immune to crowd control effects for the duration, but that's a whole other thread.

Ah yes, people swinging wildly at you whilst you're over the shoulder of their fatboy companion having some cuddle time, another annoying and unrealistic scenario I forgot to mention.

Cutscenes I can think of that are currently in the game:
- Shugoki Demon Embrace
- Shinobi Sickle Rain
- Centurion throwdown into Eagle's Talon
- Raider Stampede
- Lawbringer Impale
- Warlord Crushing Charge
- Highlander Caber Toss
- Warden, Valk and Conq charged Shoulderbash

Get rid of them all! They all should work like Shaman Predator's Mercy, when hit = interrupted immediately.

SpaceJim12
06-20-2018, 01:13 PM
But Shinobi's Sickle Rain is not a cutscene at all. Oo
I have a lot of moments, when my teammates just don't give me a chance to do this combo. This move compared with PK bleed stubs after GB and could be interrupted easily. First part of it is simple GB, but with range. So it could be interrupted, same as simple GB.
And, btw, if you will remove this combo from Shinobi, he will be useless. All he could do than are double dodge, kick, and light spam. Charmzzz, do you want Shinobi will be nerfed PK style?

With Warden, Valk and Conq, do you mean charge shoulderbash must be interrupted?

DrinkinMyStella
06-20-2018, 01:26 PM
Cutscenes I can think of that are currently in the game:
- Shugoki Demon Embrace
- Shinobi Sickle Rain
- Centurion throwdown into Eagle's Talon
- Raider Stampede
- Lawbringer Impale
- Warlord Crushing Charge
- Highlander Caber Toss
- Warden, Valk and Conq charged Shoulderbash

Get rid of them all! They all should work like Shaman Predator's Mercy, when hit = interrupted immediately.

exactly, completely agree. they have friendly fire in the game and my team can interrupt me trying to just do a heavy and they can interrupt me reviving someone so I think cutscenes should be interrupted 100%

Jazz117Volkov
06-20-2018, 01:49 PM
I'm unconvinced. Yes, some moves like stampede, crushing charge, and impale, could use a bit of attention because they force you out of the fight for so long and displace you, but fighting when outnumbered should not ever feel fair. The odds are against you. It's why Revenge saw a lot of revision, because it was too absurd; it became a tool to overpower a gank, not survive one.

Most gank issues only happen in Dominion because of the nature of taking a point, and the fact that the majority of point capture areas are tiny and full of hazards. I think most of the complaints will go away once Breach becomes the new favourite mode: asymmetrical battle, multiple objectives of differing types, a lot more NPC involvement, and a much different map flow.

Gank problems are not issues with character abilities, they're issues with the tiny scope of the Dominion game mode.

DrinkinMyStella
06-20-2018, 02:45 PM
I'm unconvinced. Yes, some moves like stampede, crushing charge, and impale, could use a bit of attention because they force you out of the fight for so long and displace you, but fighting when outnumbered should not ever feel fair. The odds are against you. It's why Revenge saw a lot of revision, because it was too absurd; it became a tool to overpower a gank, not survive one.

Most gank issues only happen in Dominion because of the nature of taking a point, and the fact that the majority of point capture areas are tiny and full of hazards. I think most of the complaints will go away once Breach becomes the new favourite mode: asymmetrical battle, multiple objectives of differing types, a lot more NPC involvement, and a much different map flow.

Gank problems are not issues with character abilities, they're issues with the tiny scope of the Dominion game mode.

the problem you have is solo players like me get matched against full parties and what do they have that I don't? communication 99% of friends in a party will actively arrange a death ball and its extremely hard playing solo to get past your spawn when this happens, and most teams will have someone who has a cutscene that completely immobilises you until your dead. now if i'm playing solo and we're losing badly wouldn't it be fair that I can at least survive until back up arrive and that's where we need some anti-gank measures and bear in mind that were talking about your own team interrupting the cutscene not my team stopping their cutscene so if your friends gank and start swinging for dear life and happen to hit their own shugoki out off a demons embrace then that's fair to me, it will make your team more aware of their surroundings and at least the the person getting ganked won't die whilst still in his hug and can have a chance at a comeback.

Charmzzz
06-20-2018, 02:50 PM
But Shinobi's Sickle Rain is not a cutscene at all. Oo
I have a lot of moments, when my teammates just don't give me a chance to do this combo. This move compared with PK bleed stubs after GB and could be interrupted easily. First part of it is simple GB, but with range. So it could be interrupted, same as simple GB.
And, btw, if you will remove this combo from Shinobi, he will be useless. All he could do than are double dodge, kick, and light spam. Charmzzz, do you want Shinobi will be nerfed PK style?

With Warden, Valk and Conq, do you mean charge shoulderbash must be interrupted?

No, Sickle Rain is a Cutscene once the Sinobi put his enemy down on his knees. Then anybody can throw free heavies, that has to go. Shinobi wont be crippled by this change, it would just lead to less frustration because you died cause of one failed CGB in a 1 minute Cutscene... Sickle Rain itself would remain as it is. It would just be interrupted on enemy / friendly fire.

SpaceJim12
06-20-2018, 03:53 PM
No, Sickle Rain is a Cutscene once the Sinobi put his enemy down on his knees. Then anybody can throw free heavies, that has to go. Shinobi wont be crippled by this change, it would just lead to less frustration because you died cause of one failed CGB in a 1 minute Cutscene... Sickle Rain itself would remain as it is. It would just be interrupted on enemy / friendly fire.

I deffenetly have been interrupted after I get enemies on their knees. But not sure, need to check it out.
Still first part of this move deffenetly could be interrupted.

DrinkinMyStella
06-20-2018, 04:00 PM
I deffenetly have been interrupted after I get enemies on their knees. But not sure, need to check it out.
Still first part of this move deffenetly could be interrupted.

I get interrupted to if somebody walks in when I have them on their knees it puts me off and I cant carry on XD

'sorry just had to' ;)

SpaceJim12
06-20-2018, 04:14 PM
I get interrupted to if somebody walks in when I have them on their knees it puts me off and I cant carry on XD

'sorry just had to' ;)

=_=

DrinkinMyStella
06-20-2018, 04:23 PM
=_=

lmao sorry had to do it. anyway more to the point, yes at some point in the animation it should be interruptible.

BTTrinity
06-20-2018, 07:03 PM
I'm sure this must have been suggested before, but I don't remember seeing a thread so here goes -

*Drumroll*

Make it so if you get hit whilst under the effect of crowd control (Impale, Stampede, Caber toss etc, even wall stagger) you regain control of your character immediately. No more getting circle jerked whilst your character lies helpless on the floor, unless the enemy all time their hits at exactly the same time, which would be quite a feat considering latency and friendly fire etc.

The exception could be if your character is out of stamina, so that it can still be punished in the same way as it currently is in a 1v1.

Simples.

This is a damn good idea..

Also, addressing other comments.... I think If revenge gets a buff, it should be revenge activation knocks down ALL attacks (Stampede Charge, Shield Bash, EVERY THING that touches the activation parry)

Jazz117Volkov
06-21-2018, 06:20 AM
How about this: If you get attacked by a 2nd player while you're pinned/immobilized, your Revenge insta-fills, and poping Revenge frees you from all immobilized states?

Camemberto
06-21-2018, 08:46 AM
I would suggest the following:

Hitting an ally would cost double stamina, bounce back the attack (like a wall) and do 50% damage to the ally and stagger them 50%.

Why? Imagine you swing your sword, but you see that you would hit an ally if you just powered through. Obviously you would try to pull back the attack in order not to damage your own troops as much. So there's 200% Stamina cost for trying to stop a heavy axe midair. Also only 50% damage because you would have slowed down the axe before impact. So there's your "realism" reason. Now for gameplay reasons: If friendly fire had no immediate punishment for the aggressor, people would still just try to hit through allies to get the kill, no matter the friendly fire. I don't think a zone heavy, kill hungry raider cares that much about his allies, if he can get a kill, so the attempt has to be useless and unrewarding in order to prevent it. This would also Improve the situation for the ganked, because e.g. raiders zone wouldn't even come through to you if a an enemy is between you and the enemy raider, furthermore, the other enemy would be staggered, allowing you to potentially get a hit in. Trolling potential would also be decreased, because the troll would pay with a lot of stamina and only do 50% damage in the process. So before he could do any significant amount of team killing, he will be OOS and can easily be evaded.

Opinions?

PDXGorechild
06-21-2018, 09:15 AM
Cutscenes I can think of that are currently in the game:
- Shugoki Demon Embrace
- Shinobi Sickle Rain
- Centurion throwdown into Eagle's Talon
- Raider Stampede
- Lawbringer Impale
- Warlord Crushing Charge
- Highlander Caber Toss
- Warden, Valk and Conq charged Shoulderbash

Get rid of them all! They all should work like Shaman Predator's Mercy, when hit = interrupted immediately.

Yep yep yep! Wasn't predators mercy originally unable to be interrupted and they changed it? Don't really understand why they wouldn't apply the same mechanic to all the other custscenes.


I'm unconvinced. Yes, some moves like stampede, crushing charge, and impale, could use a bit of attention because they force you out of the fight for so long and displace you, but fighting when outnumbered should not ever feel fair. The odds are against you. It's why Revenge saw a lot of revision, because it was too absurd; it became a tool to overpower a gank, not survive one.

Most gank issues only happen in Dominion because of the nature of taking a point, and the fact that the majority of point capture areas are tiny and full of hazards. I think most of the complaints will go away once Breach becomes the new favourite mode: asymmetrical battle, multiple objectives of differing types, a lot more NPC involvement, and a much different map flow.

Gank problems are not issues with character abilities, they're issues with the tiny scope of the Dominion game mode.

I agree in part, Dominion is by far the worst game mode for it and I don't get so frustrated on other game modes where getting ganked is much less common. But I think the odds are already stacked against you in a gank - especially with the way revenge is right now. I've got loads of vids from the early days of taking down 3 or 4 opponents on my own, but it's very rare now-a-days, which is largely due to revenge. I don't want the old revenge back. But another reason is because crowd control effects were uncommon especially in season 1. A lot of the time now when i'm ganked I lose control of my character and just drop the controller and curse, knowing it's a death sentence. Only takes a second for a few players to launch an overhead heavy and it's lights out.

Your alternative idea for revenge in CC effects is good though, I could live with that.


I get interrupted to if somebody walks in when I have them on their knees it puts me off and I cant carry on XD

'sorry just had to' ;)

Hahahaha


I would suggest the following:

Hitting an ally would cost double stamina, bounce back the attack (like a wall) and do 50% damage to the ally and stagger them 50%.

Why? Imagine you swing your sword, but you see that you would hit an ally if you just powered through. Obviously you would try to pull back the attack in order not to damage your own troops as much. So there's 200% Stamina cost for trying to stop a heavy axe midair. Also only 50% damage because you would have slowed down the axe before impact. So there's your "realism" reason. Now for gameplay reasons: If friendly fire had no immediate punishment for the aggressor, people would still just try to hit through allies to get the kill, no matter the friendly fire. I don't think a zone heavy, kill hungry raider cares that much about his allies, if he can get a kill, so the attempt has to be useless and unrewarding in order to prevent it. This would also Improve the situation for the ganked, because e.g. raiders zone wouldn't even come through to you if a an enemy is between you and the enemy raider, furthermore, the other enemy would be staggered, allowing you to potentially get a hit in. Trolling potential would also be decreased, because the troll would pay with a lot of stamina and only do 50% damage in the process. So before he could do any significant amount of team killing, he will be OOS and can easily be evaded.

Opinions?

Dude I suggested this about friendly fire in a thread months ago and you seem to have latched onto the idea, and are now posting it where it's not really relevant to the topic. Changing friendly fire wouldn't make it much less likely that being crowd controlled leads to death. Organised players don't friendly fire much, you get berated for it on PC. But they do know that if a player gets Caber tossed to the ground, that they should prioritise that target and put and end to them. I guess you could call it communication and team work, but meh, it just feels too much to me at the moment with so much of it about.

DrinkinMyStella
06-21-2018, 09:25 AM
im sure your taking notes ubi but do you have anything to comment on about this issue, are there talks on your end or how to fix the death ball meta?

DrinkinMyStella
06-22-2018, 09:52 AM
keep this thread alive for the devs to read