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Archo-Vax
06-17-2018, 03:24 AM
Hello, it is I, Archo-Vax (pronounced: arr-koe). The person who spent at least a week studying and compiling all of the information present in For Honor's lore and Story Mode. The guy who made the "comprehensive timeline" that's pinned at the top of the General Forum.

I'm here to make a suggestion. And a bit of a request.

Given that the playable Heroes in multiplayer are now being regarded as unique characters with backstories, and not simply faceless "units", I would have to offer my... shall we say: two-cents, yes? Right, then

The characters constructed around the new Chinese Faction are solid. It really helps to paint a picture of the nature of the Wulin exodus from China. It also lets us know that what's left of Europe and Asia were both fused together during the Cataclysm.
However, when the time comes I would have to strongly advise against just inserting Mercy into the "cast" to speak, to fill in the Peacekeeper "slot". If we were to just grab the characters from Story Mode and insert them into the Faction War, we would then have to explain how and why they change their equipment, constantly. We know for a fact that we can't use Holden, Ayu, or Stigandr, because then what would be the point of each of their unique ornaments and amor sets?

The point is: the much smoother and much less upheaving way to go about all of this would be to simply create new characters for the existing Heroes. It would save a lot of people a lot of time. I would also have to strongly advise against using the names dropped from the Hero's March Event- each of the characters named in said Event were clearly past historical figures who have likely already died before the Age of Wolves.

The only one that might work would be the Centurion character who "conquered Ignis", but then we'd have to construct an entire event around that, stating that the Samurai or Vikings at one point owned Ignis mountain during the Faction War, but the Centurion came in and took it back from them.

If my input were requested, or if the team were open to ideas from me, I'd be perfectly willing to pitch in.

I hope that my words reach the proper channels.


By my own hand, Archo

Alustar.exe
06-17-2018, 05:45 AM
As always, I love your attention to detail! Good write up, dude. I hope they listen to this.

Vakris_One
06-17-2018, 04:04 PM
I agree. I too think they should make original characters instead of inserting the story mode cast into the "peacekeeper slot", the "Nobushi slot", etc. It would be less clunky that way.

CandleInTheDark
06-17-2018, 05:32 PM
One thing I would like to know, not for my own benefit but for those who would rather keep it as it is, is will the voice lines and such be optional like the effects? If someone chooses they can ignore that the characters might have names and backgrounds but having the sound would be a lot harder for them to get away from and still enjoy the game.

Vakris_One
06-17-2018, 06:36 PM
One thing I would like to know, not for my own benefit but for those who would rather keep it as it is, is will the voice lines and such be optional like the effects? If someone chooses they can ignore that the characters might have names and backgrounds but having the sound would be a lot harder for them to get away from and still enjoy the game.
It'd be interesting to know what the voice lines are for when two of the same character are fighting each other. Do they stay mute or will they taunt each other as if the other is just another faceless warrior? If the latter then they might as well just make the voice realisation system be about the different heroes classes rather than about the heroes' character backstories.

I get that the devs thought it would be cool if every character recognised each other differently like Injustice League does its clashes. But Injustice League has the whole premise of alternate realities to avoid the awkward immersion break of a character facing their evil twin. I think ultimately the entertainment factor of voice realisation will outweigh the immersion breaks but could it not have worked just as well with different warrior class recognition?

Halvtand
06-17-2018, 07:28 PM
I have nothing to add but my full support. Once again Arr-koe-Vax has made a very solid point.

Archo-Vax
06-17-2018, 08:05 PM
I have nothing to add but my full support. Once again Arr-koe-Vax has made a very solid point.

Ha. Funny.

Archo-Vax
06-18-2018, 12:03 AM
As always, I love your attention to detail! Good write up, dude. I hope they listen to this.

So do I.

Alustar.exe
06-18-2018, 12:16 AM
Maybe they will comment something along the lines of "doppelganger" in their native tongue!

Jazz117Volkov
06-18-2018, 02:29 AM
Still not sure how I feel about the individual characters, names and backstories...I mean, every other execution retcons their personality anyway. For the amount of quality and consistency the narrative team achieve with the heroes, there's also something equally severe undoing it. Time will tell, I suppose.


One thing I would like to know, not for my own benefit but for those who would rather keep it as it is, is will the voice lines and such be optional like the effects? If someone chooses they can ignore that the characters might have names and backgrounds but having the sound would be a lot harder for them to get away from and still enjoy the game.
I've wanted something like that to kill the laugh tracks forever.

Archo-Vax
06-18-2018, 04:09 PM
Still not sure how I feel about the individual characters, names and backstories...I mean, every other execution retcons their personality anyway. For the amount of quality and consistency the narrative team achieve with the heroes, there's also something equally severe undoing it. Time will tell, I suppose.


I've wanted something like that to kill the laugh tracks forever.

I'm not personally bothered about it, too much. I just hope that it's all somewhat easy to explain.

Kobi_Blade
06-18-2018, 07:56 PM
I see no issue whasoever with the way it currently works, it's more fun to have Story Mode Characters available to play, than to not have them due to some people thinking it doesn't make sense.

This is a game and gameplay should be at the top, and not historical changes.

Archo-Vax
06-19-2018, 02:38 AM
As always, I love your attention to detail! Good write up, dude. I hope they listen to this.

Thanks.

Archo-Vax
06-19-2018, 05:53 PM
I see no issue whasoever with the way it currently works, it's more fun to have Story Mode Characters available to play, than to not have them due to some people thinking it doesn't make sense.

This is a game and gameplay should be at the top, and not historical changes.

I really don't see how gameplay would be improved in any sense from jamming Story Mode characters into the multiplayer. "More fun?". It feels like you're not telling us something.

Archo-Vax
06-19-2018, 05:55 PM
I see no issue whasoever with the way it currently works, it's more fun to have Story Mode Characters available to play, than to not have them due to some people thinking it doesn't make sense.

This is a game and gameplay should be at the top, and not historical changes.

How would gameplay be improved by jamming the Story Mode characters into the multiplayer? How would that be more fun?

UbiJurassic
06-19-2018, 09:44 PM
Hello, it is I, Archo-Vax (pronounced: arr-koe). The person who spent at least a week studying and compiling all of the information present in For Honor's lore and Story Mode. The guy who made the "comprehensive timeline" that's pinned at the top of the General Forum.

I'm here to make a suggestion. And a bit of a request.

Given that the playable Heroes in multiplayer are now being regarded as unique characters with backstories, and not simply faceless "units", I would have to offer my... shall we say: two-cents, yes? Right, then

The characters constructed around the new Chinese Faction are solid. It really helps to paint a picture of the nature of the Wulin exodus from China. It also lets us know that what's left of Europe and Asia were both fused together during the Cataclysm.
However, when the time comes I would have to strongly advise against just inserting Mercy into the "cast" to speak, to fill in the Peacekeeper "slot". If we were to just grab the characters from Story Mode and insert them into the Faction War, we would then have to explain how and why they change their equipment, constantly. We know for a fact that we can't use Holden, Ayu, or Stigandr, because then what would be the point of each of their unique ornaments and amor sets?

The point is: the much smoother and much less upheaving way to go about all of this would be to simply create new characters for the existing Heroes. It would save a lot of people a lot of time. I would also have to strongly advise against using the names dropped from the Hero's March Event- each of the characters named in said Event were clearly past historical figures who have likely already died before the Age of Wolves.

The only one that might work would be the Centurion character who "conquered Ignis", but then we'd have to construct an entire event around that, stating that the Samurai or Vikings at one point owned Ignis mountain during the Faction War, but the Centurion came in and took it back from them.

If my input were requested, or if the team were open to ideas from me, I'd be perfectly willing to pitch in.

I hope that my words reach the proper channels.


By my own hand, Archo

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this Archo-Vax. We've been seeing some similar feedback and the team has been really interested to hear what players have had to say about it. I'll certainly ensure that the feedback and comments here are passed on to them. :)

Archo-Vax
06-19-2018, 10:46 PM
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this Archo-Vax. We've been seeing some similar feedback and the team has been really interested to hear what players have had to say about it. I'll certainly ensure that the feedback and comments here are passed on to them. :)

Thank you for the communique.

JadeBosson.
06-19-2018, 11:01 PM
I agree. I too think they should make original characters instead of inserting the story mode cast into the "peacekeeper slot", the "Nobushi slot", etc. It would be less clunky that way.

Rip that story mode nobushi who took an arrow to the knee maybe stopping her from adventuring

ChampionRuby50g
06-20-2018, 01:06 AM
How would gameplay be improved by jamming the Story Mode characters into the multiplayer? How would that be more fun?

Not hard to imagine it would be more immersive to play a character who has backstory, their own personality and an actual face opposed to a nameless figure who you have no idea about. Sure you could come up with your own backstory, but itís not the same as the in-game lore to some people, and your still a faceless warrior, just a soldier in a war. Whereas instead you could be Holden Cross, one of the greatest warriors of the age and one of the leaders of the Knights.

Archo-Vax
06-20-2018, 01:08 AM
Not hard to imagine it would be more immersive to play a character who has backstory, their own personality and an actual face opposed to a nameless figure who you have no idea about. Sure you could come up with your own backstory, but it’s not the same as the in-game lore to some people, and your still a faceless warrior, just a soldier in a war. Whereas instead you could be Holden Cross, one of the greatest warriors of the age and one of the leaders of the Knights.

But the after-credits cutscene shows that Holden's armor doesn't change since before the Age of Wolves.

ChampionRuby50g
06-20-2018, 02:02 AM
But the after-credits cutscene shows that Holden's armor doesn't change since before the Age of Wolves.

I might be missing something, whatís your point? I like Holdenís Armor, and if I wanna go deeply into it, it wouldnít make sense for Holden to change it considering how precious resources are and the time and effort it would take to craft a piece of Lawbringer armor, as itís a secret guarded by their order. If his armor doesnít fail him, why change it? Donít fix something that isnít broken.

Archo-Vax
06-20-2018, 02:48 AM
I might be missing something, what’s your point? I like Holden’s Armor, and if I wanna go deeply into it, it wouldn’t make sense for Holden to change it considering how precious resources are and the time and effort it would take to craft a piece of Lawbringer armor, as it’s a secret guarded by their order. If his armor doesn’t fail him, why change it? Don’t fix something that isn’t broken.

The point is: why would he change it at all? Thus: inserting him into the multiplayer cast would not make sense.

ChampionRuby50g
06-20-2018, 05:10 AM
The point is: why would he change it at all? Thus: inserting him into the multiplayer cast would not make sense.

You donít necessarily have to change it. Iíve had the same armor for 2 seasons now, only recently changed the helmet on my LB, but if Ubisoft added a Holden Cross model I could simply make it my 2nd or 3rd loadout, and play as him. If he was to be inserted, it makes sense. Make it his own model, with no changes allowed. That makes it unique, and thus desirable. We know how much Ubi loves micro transactions, make it cost decent steel and that makes it something to either grind for, or pay for if players want to go down that path and is financial incentive for Ubi. I get to not only play Lawbringer, but play as THE Lawbringer. Holden Cross, the man who if you fight, your signing your own death warrant. It makes perfect sense to me.

Archo-Vax
06-20-2018, 08:21 AM
You don’t necessarily have to change it. I’ve had the same armor for 2 seasons now, only recently changed the helmet on my LB, but if Ubisoft added a Holden Cross model I could simply make it my 2nd or 3rd loadout, and play as him. If he was to be inserted, it makes sense. Make it his own model, with no changes allowed. That makes it unique, and thus desirable. We know how much Ubi loves micro transactions, make it cost decent steel and that makes it something to either grind for, or pay for if players want to go down that path and is financial incentive for Ubi. I get to not only play Lawbringer, but play as THE Lawbringer. Holden Cross, the man who if you fight, your signing your own death warrant. It makes perfect sense to me.

... are the Story Mode characters that popular? For the first few months of the game's release, all I heard was "the Story Mode is an absolute crock of ****e!". So... your points are sounding a bit alien.

ChampionRuby50g
06-20-2018, 08:34 AM
... are the Story Mode characters that popular? For the first few months of the game's release, all I heard was "the Story Mode is an absolute crock of ****e!". So... your points are sounding a bit alien.

I personally really like them, and they are popular enough to be worth adding in. If they donít get added in itís no skin off my back, but IMO more people would enjoy it than not.

Vakris_One
06-20-2018, 10:06 AM
I personally really like them, and they are popular enough to be worth adding in. If they donít get added in itís no skin off my back, but IMO more people would enjoy it than not.
I wouldn't care if they added story mode character skins to be honest, I would have zero interest in them since I can already create my own unique looking warrior. The point is for them not to just make it so that everyone's Lawbringer is Holden Cross and everyone's PK is Mercy and everyone's Valkyrie is Runa and etc. Because frankly:

a) that would be very lazy of them instead of creating new and original character backstories for everyone.

and

b) it would be muddying what was already established at the end of the story mode with Holden, Stigandr and the Kensei chick. If we're suddenly playing them then why would they have changed back to their old armours specifically for that ending cutscene?

ChampionRuby50g
06-20-2018, 11:49 AM
I wouldn't care if they added story mode character skins to be honest, I would have zero interest in them since I can already create my own unique looking warrior. The point is for them not to just make it so that everyone's Lawbringer is Holden Cross and everyone's PK is Mercy and everyone's Valkyrie is Runa and etc. Because frankly:

a) that would be very lazy of them instead of creating new and original character backstories for everyone.

and

b) it would be muddying what was already established at the end of the story mode with Holden, Stigandr and the Kensei chick. If we're suddenly playing them then why would they have changed back to their old armours specifically for that ending cutscene?

I get your points and see where you are coming from. One of my favourite things about FH is the customisation, and making my current Lawbringer the best looking Lawbringer in the game. (He is)

But I would still like the option of playing as Holden. Itís something to break it up, and have an already established warrior fighting in the war. If we really want to make it Unique, these story mode characters can only be selected when you are
On the Knights side when they are attacking a Viking army (not locked to factions, i would be upset if as Iím a Viking I wouldnít be able to play Holden for example. It wouldnít be everyone though. While I personally feel, at least in my area the population is low that many players would still use their created heroís. I still would.

Creating new and original backstories for the entire cast, 18 heroes soon to be 22, would be a massive task. I canít say for sure, but Iíve heard that Ubi have a very small and limited number of writers for this sort of thing in the team, and part of their job is creating the bot names. Which is still poorly done. So if the rumours are true, this would be a massive undertaking and one I donít see Ubisoft investing time and money into, when they already have the true OG heroes with their stories ready to go. Itís kinda similar to the argument about realism in this game. The rules can be bent a little.

B) itís been a while since Iíve replayed that, but from memory I didnít notice any discrepancies between Holdenís armor then and the rest of the campaign?

PDXGorechild
06-20-2018, 12:08 PM
Totally against this idea, I want to create my own character. I think the sudden change and giving the new characters a backstory and implying you are playing as them is a massive f*ck up.

True to form at least, Ubi.

HazelrahFirefly
06-20-2018, 12:14 PM
But the after-credits cutscene shows that Holden's armor doesn't change since before the Age of Wolves.

And? It's a game. Holden's armor not changing is irrelevant, isn't it? Gameplay before all, story and immersion included.

That said, not to sound naive but... what is this thread even about? I'm on break from FH and barely paying attention to any news. Is there some talk from devs of removing customized characters to only have fighting-game-selections, ala Tekken or SF?

Vakris_One
06-20-2018, 12:47 PM
I get your points and see where you are coming from. One of my favourite things about FH is the customisation, and making my current Lawbringer the best looking Lawbringer in the game. (He is)

But I would still like the option of playing as Holden. Itís something to break it up, and have an already established warrior fighting in the war. If we really want to make it Unique, these story mode characters can only be selected when you are
On the Knights side when they are attacking a Viking army (not locked to factions, i would be upset if as Iím a Viking I wouldnít be able to play Holden for example. It wouldnít be everyone though. While I personally feel, at least in my area the population is low that many players would still use their created heroís. I still would.

Creating new and original backstories for the entire cast, 18 heroes soon to be 22, would be a massive task. I canít say for sure, but Iíve heard that Ubi have a very small and limited number of writers for this sort of thing in the team, and part of their job is creating the bot names. Which is still poorly done. So if the rumours are true, this would be a massive undertaking and one I donít see Ubisoft investing time and money into, when they already have the true OG heroes with their stories ready to go. Itís kinda similar to the argument about realism in this game. The rules can be bent a little.

B) itís been a while since Iíve replayed that, but from memory I didnít notice any discrepancies between Holdenís armor then and the rest of the campaign?
If I recall correctly the ending cutscene of the campaign takes place some years after Appolyon's death. Meaning that we as players are playing in the timeline that directly follows Polly's death, i.e. The Big Ol' War. The cutscene is after X number of years of "The Big Ol' War". So basically it would pose the question of why did Holden (and his many clones) change his armour during the War and then change it back for that one cutscene. Lore-wise it will be a bit wonky for the folks who care about the lore.

I would simply find it jarring for all of us to be the many clones of 22 characters.


And? It's a game. Holden's armor not changing is irrelevant, isn't it? Gameplay before all, story and immersion included.

That said, not to sound naive but... what is this thread even about? I'm on break from FH and barely paying attention to any news. Is there some talk from devs of removing customized characters to only have fighting-game-selections, ala Tekken or SF?
Devs are going to be giving each character class a personalised hero backstory complete with dialogue recognition between characters. Think Injustice League where two characters have specific voice lines depending on the opponent they face, i.e. Batman meets Joker, Superman meets Supergirl, etc.

There is no gameplay benefit involved at all so it's pointless for you to bring gameplay into the discussion. It's purely a cosmetic/stylistic thing. We will basically go from playing one of a thousand individual faceless warriors to one of many clones of 22 heroes. Some people prefered the former, others the latter.

ChampionRuby50g
06-20-2018, 01:29 PM
If I recall correctly the ending cutscene of the campaign takes place some years after Appolyon's death. Meaning that we as players are playing in the timeline that directly follows Polly's death, i.e. The Big Ol' War. The cutscene is after X number of years of "The Big Ol' War". So basically it would pose the question of why did Holden (and his many clones) change his armour during the War and then change it back for that one cutscene. Lore-wise it will be a bit wonky for the folks who care about the lore.

I would simply find it jarring for all of us to be the many clones of 22 characters.





Yeah the war we are fighting now is the inbetween of Apollyons death and that cutscene. Whereís the info saying Holden even changed his armor? I admit Iím not the most up to date person with all this stuff. Holden in my eyes, had the same armor throughout the entire campaign and now the war we fight. At the end cutscene, he wears that armor as itís where he feels most comfortable. His original armor that saved his back countless times, and what he is most recognisable in, and thus spreads the most fear and intimidation in his opponents. Holdenís clones are not clones. They are other Lawbringers. In my eyes, they can make it so if there are multiple Holdenís in one game, which ever player selects that skin first is the only player who gets that skin for the match, so there arenít 3 Holdenís on one team. A bit like the singlepick option. All the other LBs, like me atm, are simply members of the order doing our duty. Or betraying our ouths and siding with those filthy heathens.

Odin the Allfather converted Holden.

Vakris_One
06-20-2018, 01:39 PM
Yeah the war we are fighting now is the inbetween of Apollyons death and that cutscene. Whereís the info saying Holden even changed his armor? I admit Iím not the most up to date person with all this stuff. Holden in my eyes, had the same armor throughout the entire campaign and now the war we fight. At the end cutscene, he wears that armor as itís where he feels most comfortable. His original armor that saved his back countless times, and what he is most recognisable in, and thus spreads the most fear and intimidation in his opponents. Holdenís clones are not clones. They are other Lawbringers. In my eyes, they can make it so if there are multiple Holdenís in one game, which ever player selects that skin first is the only player who gets that skin for the match, so there arenít 3 Holdenís on one team. A bit like the singlepick option. All the other LBs, like me atm, are simply members of the order doing our duty. Or betraying our ouths and siding with those filthy heathens.

Odin the Allfather converted Holden.
Yeah but the thing is they won't be making a Holden skin. Potentially, I'm only speculating mind, they'll make it so that the Lawbringer class IS Holden Cross. That's what I mean when I mention his armour changing. We all have Lawbringers with different looks, none of whom look even remotely like Holden. And essentially a team of 4 Lolbringers now become a team of 4 Holdens, complete with the same voice. God save us if all 4 of them see a Warden and start shouting in unison, "Daubeny! Daubeny! DAUBENY! Show yourself Daubeny! Show yourself Daubeny! Show yourself Daubeny! I love you Daubeny!" ;)

HazelrahFirefly
06-20-2018, 02:14 PM
I'm still a bit confused.

Are they changing anything visually, or is it just auto-spewn lines of dialogue? Is this a confirmed change coming or just an idea that is being thrown around?

Either way, I definitely dont think it's a good move. I don't care about the lore or story,as I think it's all **** in FH, but from a gameplay perspective it will be awful to hear these lines during a match, especially if they get repeated. I also dont want to lose the individuality that heroes already possess. I can literally hear the LB in my head right now for example, and his voice work is excellent.

ChampionRuby50g
06-21-2018, 01:54 AM
Yeah but the thing is they won't be making a Holden skin. Potentially, I'm only speculating mind, they'll make it so that the Lawbringer class IS Holden Cross. That's what I mean when I mention his armour changing. We all have Lawbringers with different looks, none of whom look even remotely like Holden. And essentially a team of 4 Lolbringers now become a team of 4 Holdens, complete with the same voice. God save us if all 4 of them see a Warden and start shouting in unison, "Daubeny! Daubeny! DAUBENY! Show yourself Daubeny! Show yourself Daubeny! Show yourself Daubeny! I love you Daubeny!" ;)

I think itís finally clicked with me whatís happening. When I first read through the post it was in bed, with one eye open early in the morning and not a single drop of coffee in me so it went right over my head lol. So now I get what you mean, and yeah I can agree if they change all LBs to Holden. So I can get behind them making an individual story for each hero, but then itís still kinda the same problem right? Instead of 4 Holdenís, there are 4 LBs who are the same person and just cloned, which is a little weird but I can live with that.

I would still not mind if Story character skins got added, as a rep 50 reward. That would make rep 50 worth getting, and make it a lot more diverse so it would be highly unlikely for 4 Holdenís to threaten Daubeny.