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Legion25846
06-16-2018, 02:24 PM
WTF is with this game and all the orochi mains for every 10 players i come across in 1v1 i fight 7 orochis. Its getting really old with light attack spams for days.

Alustar.
06-16-2018, 02:36 PM
Always happens with new characters/reworks. As soon as players learn to counter these things it will die down.

Brutal_DaDo
06-16-2018, 02:56 PM
Always happens with new characters/reworks. As soon as players learn to counter these things it will die down.

Everytime i’m up against i’m always like “really dude?” Orochi got “reworked” and some of his moves have changes, yet all i see is kiai and light combos, kiai was already a good and powerful tool before his rework but a bit useless becase orochi didn’t have the mixup he has now, i played this game since the beta on xbox and recently i’ve bought a ps4 and also play for honor there, just to say ho crazy i am about this game ahah, what really gets to me is that when i played on xbox i wouldn’t even get a single hate message there on the other hand i do get a lot of hate messages on ps4 like cheater and all that stuff. I always reply to them saying i used to play for a long time on xbox ans then they challange me to a duel and when they star bragging about how good they are and i’m a noob i just pick prochi and start playing like they do, suddenly they stop saying how good they are. I’ve been gaming since i can remember but damn, i think i’m just getting a bit old to react to all that s**t spam orochi has ahah, sorry for the textwall and my english

Legion25846
06-18-2018, 01:31 AM
Its getting to the point i don't want to even duel anymore the amount of orochis i fight is absurd. The part i hate the most and i understand its what they are designed to do but they just stand there wait for you to attack then counter it with one of there dives or dodge attacks then get 2 free light attacks rinse repeat.

They never initiate **** its unreal and if they do its always a top light smack smack lol.

Alustar.
06-18-2018, 02:32 AM
Yeah it's rare to see orochi players even throw out heavies in 4s anymore unless they have their entire group with them.

Lord_Cherubi
06-18-2018, 03:01 AM
What i think is absurd is the amount of complaints about his light spam. It's not like any other hero can't do it and for some players this is all they know but those kind of players don't perform very well... I mean i don't want to sound like im pretending to be a god among men that can block his every light, i eat them as well but the whole point of fast light attacks is to get low amounts of damage done in a short period of time. You're NOT meant to block it every time. But if i get hit 3 times in a row (which also happens from time to time), i know im not focused enough. If im playing late night i sometimes struggle a lot against storm rush sides but when i make an effort to concentrate and study my opponent, just like that i realize im now comfortably blocking his attacks so i don't have to just stand still and wait for my opportunity to strike back.

The thing about spammers is that they're usually not very comfortable with mixing things up, meaning they're very predictable. If all they do is throw lights then at some point you will eventually have to get blocks, from which you can create space for yourself to work with. Throw a zone, dodge attack, do something to break his momentum and strike back. Just remember that whatever you do, you can't spam an Orochi down as he'll just do a dodge attack and start all over again.

Recently i was playing Brawl with a friend and we we're both frustrated at ourselves as this Orochi was just spamming lights and dodge attacks, nothing more. It was so predictable and boring but at first he kicked our asses hard because our muscle memory and brains were pulling their tricks on us. I had no problems whatsoever in blocking most of his attacks but whenever i got a change to attack myself i wasn't patient enough so usually after the first hit he would just do the dodge attack again. But once i got my head back in the game i made him look pretty patchetic. I would block his combo, get one hit in, parry his dodge attack, poke again (or gb+heavy), rince and repeat. I was even able to deflect him way too many times than i should have. When he realized he wasn't getting anything done he backed away and tried to adapt, trying to force guardbreaks which i denied as well. After i was done with him, he started spamming "wow" in chat which i presumed was meant to mock my turtlish style of play but he really left me with no choice, adapting is the key here.

And the dude was rep 9...

Alustar.
06-18-2018, 03:10 AM
For me it's a combination of a lot of things, I'll not on the best network, nor do I have the best reflexes. I know this and try to better managing my zoning of him. But when you combine his fast attacks with his kiai and undogeable properties on like 4 of his moves or more, it becomes a hassle. I have the same problems with him that I did conqueror. The attacks can come successively from any direction and I end up caught either in hit stun or my guard is stuck in queue for the direction I had input just before. I've gotten better in dealing with Musha, but that's only because he has to flow from side to top, so I can be patient and wait for one direction and not get stuck.

Lord_Cherubi
06-18-2018, 03:54 AM
For me it's a combination of a lot of things, I'll not on the best network, nor do I have the best reflexes. I know this and try to better managing my zoning of him. But when you combine his fast attacks with his kiai and undogeable properties on like 4 of his moves or more, it becomes a hassle. I have the same problems with him that I did conqueror. The attacks can come successively from any direction and I end up caught either in hit stun or my guard is stuck in queue for the direction I had input just before. I've gotten better in dealing with Musha, but that's only because he has to flow from side to top, so I can be patient and wait for one direction and not get stuck.

Well, im pretty sure all of us struggle against him from time to time, no worries :) Some days i might notice more lag/delay than normal, sometimes my reflexes or timings are off, this stuff happens. One night i couldn't parry a single heavy for two matches in a row, i almost lost my mind because i knew it was me and not the connection.

Kiai has been brought up so many times recently that i will be amazed if they won't eventually do something about it. I posted this on another thread before but my solution would be that it should be made into a 2nd or 3rd feat and they should make the cooldown a lot longer. And i wouldn't even mind if they would make the exhaustion period a bit smaller because that is a long time to wait and because Rochi gets it basically for free.

bannex19
06-18-2018, 04:16 AM
Good news they'll all be replaced by teleporting shaolin mains come Oct. It's a shame they didn't give the monk the ability to go invisible and shoot fireballs...

MarshalMoriarty
06-18-2018, 05:57 AM
I'm not an Orochi main by any means, but I do use him. The thing is that I *hate* assassins and consider them broken, trolling and massively overused. But if you never play them, that's like a third of the roster gone. So I've had to pick up at least 1 or 2. For ages it was Gladiator, but now she's Rep 6 I needed another. And there's no way I'm playing PK, Shaman or Berserker as I haven't reached an advanced level of objectivity to prevent myself from suiciding them with sadistic, vengeful glee.

That left the trolling Shinobi or underpowered (as he then was) Orochi. So I went with him and it was okay... until the rework. Now, he's just the Kiai Light spam guy and that's tedious beyond wofds. But what else does he have? Why would you go for Heavies when the lights are safer and spook opponents? Why take the risk on Deflects when you can overwhelm them with aggression?

I can't stand it, so I rarely play him now. Not that its any less annoying, but I play him as a Gadgeteer of sorts, using Kiai (because come on, you'd be crazy not to), Kunai knives, Longbow and Nail Bomb. Hardly honorable, but it makes him feel more fun to use than endlessly light spamming and Guard Break Top Heavy fishing. I at least feel like an assassin and not the little guy with the floppy sword.

VampireDovah
06-18-2018, 06:27 AM
Yeah I considered myself an orochi main (pre rework) because he was the most samurai-ish hero out there and I felt rewarded for skillfull play. Now I don't want to use him because I'll feel like a noob if I start to throw out a bunch of lights and when I do add mixups into a heavy I get parried 9 times out of 10 so I'm left playing a defensive playstyle that isn't all to fun (especially if the opponent is hyper agresive using moves that are hard to react to). So now I'm having fun with the nobushi until orochi feels right.

DrinkinMyStella
06-18-2018, 09:00 AM
before people get all defensive Console = unreactable PC = Reactable he should have always been reworked separately in fact they should have balanced the game separately for console and PC

Baturai
06-18-2018, 10:43 AM
This thread and its noobs are the Reason Why Orochi is getting nerfs after nerfs.

HE IS GARBAGE ! just turtle and you win.

DrinkinMyStella
06-18-2018, 10:55 AM
This thread and its noobs are the Reason Why Orochi is getting nerfs after nerfs.

HE IS GARBAGE ! just turtle and you win.

well he is now the noobiest class in the game, any one can be good with him.

Lord_Cherubi
06-18-2018, 10:56 AM
This thread and its noobs are the Reason Why Orochi is getting nerfs after nerfs.

HE IS GARBAGE ! just turtle and you win.

Well i wouldn't call anyone a noob just because they're struggling against a certain character but i agree in that he really doesn't need a nerf...

In my experience spamming is only going to get you killed but i guess it's because i always get matched up against people with absolutely insane total rep levels. If anything, i sometimes might finish my opponent up with 3 light combo if i know he won't be prepared for it.

I don't want to pretend like i know everything about this game but one thing i know for a fact: Orochi is dangerous because of his mix-up game, not ****ing light spamming...

Why don't people complain about Shinobi light spammers? The 2nd is guaranteed if it comes from the same side so he can spam pretty damn fast as well and on top of that he can safely retreat if he chooses to.

DrinkinMyStella
06-18-2018, 01:25 PM
Well i wouldn't call anyone a noob just because they're struggling against a certain character but i agree in that he really doesn't need a nerf...

In my experience spamming is only going to get you killed but i guess it's because i always get matched up against people with absolutely insane total rep levels. If anything, i sometimes might finish my opponent up with 3 light combo if i know he won't be prepared for it.

I don't want to pretend like i know everything about this game but one thing i know for a fact: Orochi is dangerous because of his mix-up game, not ****ing light spamming...

Why don't people complain about Shinobi light spammers? The 2nd is guaranteed if it comes from the same side so he can spam pretty damn fast as well and on top of that he can safely retreat if he chooses to.

I wish I had this on film just to prove that anyone can pick up orochi and spam their way to victory, I play on ps4 btw. I played the other day in a duel against a rep 0 player and he was using orochi and I thought let me just kill him quick because the match making failed him and put him with a much more experienced player but what I though was thong to be easy was not, literally my jaw dropped after I lost 0-3 admittedly I was using nobushi but I was confident enough that it doesn't matter well anyway the only thing this guy did was spam lights no joke he only used lights no zone, no riptide strike no counter moves and I couldn't do anything, I couldn't parry because the input delay, I couldn't attack because his lights being so fast on console kept interrupting my attacks, the parry punish for spamming is not rewarding enough. This was the first time I though to myself if I rep 0 can pick up a hero in this game and beat me with no problems and this is a skill based game then there must be something wrong. I asked this guy as well was this a new account he said no he's only started playing that day and he's been doing really well with orochi so I asked him about if he knows how to use his moveset i.e deflects, riptide strike etc and he said no just hits lights and changes direction, so even new players agree he takes no skill.

Legion25846
06-18-2018, 01:32 PM
Thread full of noobs? the orochi is a noob character spam artist he has no reason to throw heavies making it almost impossible to parry him and lets face getting parried means getting punished hard he does as much damage in a 2 -3 light attack spam that most heroes do with 1 heavy attack but he has no worry doing it so punishing him is almost impossible.


The other day i play a light attack spamming orochi rematched him played I orochi and 90% of my attacks were just top lights and i beat him that says allot.

Why would any one throw a heavy attack when they can do the same **** with 2 light attacks and not have to worry about being parried? Why would u ever risk the deflect unblockable when you can light attack do the same dps with out having to risk getting your face chopped off going for the deflect. ? why would you try and use any of his actual moves when light attacks are safe and punish so hard?

My point is he does to much damage for how easy his lights spam out.

The ****ing valk/pk have to work 100x harder to do anywere near the orochi dps. the assassins in this game are 90% of picks now and 75% of them are orochi because they are safer to play then the heavies, why would i pick LB/Warden/Cent/Raider/Warlord When i can pick an assassin that can dodge easy and cap on the dodges never have to throw heavies and health bars are like what 20 points difference maybe ? whats that 1-2 light attacks whoopty ****.

ignore orochi all the sin classes in this game need a nerf to health pools or the heavy/hybrids need a buff to health, orochi is just the worst ( and the fact that i see 60-70% of my fights are against oro says allot ) they do ******ed damage with light attacks for how fast they are.

They need nerf to damage or a nerf to speed,i would suggest they nerf the damage because his speed is whats annoying but allows him to actually fight nerfing the damage would even out his speed.

Lord_Cherubi
06-18-2018, 02:40 PM
I wish I had this on film just to prove that anyone can pick up orochi and spam their way to victory, I play on ps4 btw. I played the other day in a duel against a rep 0 player and he was using orochi and I thought let me just kill him quick because the match making failed him and put him with a much more experienced player but what I though was thong to be easy was not, literally my jaw dropped after I lost 0-3 admittedly I was using nobushi but I was confident enough that it doesn't matter well anyway the only thing this guy did was spam lights no joke he only used lights no zone, no riptide strike no counter moves and I couldn't do anything, I couldn't parry because the input delay, I couldn't attack because his lights being so fast on console kept interrupting my attacks, the parry punish for spamming is not rewarding enough. This was the first time I though to myself if I rep 0 can pick up a hero in this game and beat me with no problems and this is a skill based game then there must be something wrong. I asked this guy as well was this a new account he said no he's only started playing that day and he's been doing really well with orochi so I asked him about if he knows how to use his moveset i.e deflects, riptide strike etc and he said no just hits lights and changes direction, so even new players agree he takes no skill.

Im on PS4 as well and that's why i usually won't even try to parry any lights unless it's a Orochi or Zerk dodge attack. And because the delay seems way more off some days than others i sometimes have a lot more difficulties against him. But most of the time i find it way more hard to fight a skilled Orochi who uses every move since there's no way i can predict what he's going to do at all times when he has so many options available.

But to clarify, i don't mean i never get killed by only spamming lights. This happens sometimes but when it does i remind myself that i could have prevented it and it's very rare that i would constantly die to a Orochi only spamming lights.

I totally get you tho, he is frustrating to fight against some times

Lord_Cherubi
06-18-2018, 02:47 PM
Thread full of noobs? the orochi is a noob character spam artist he has no reason to throw heavies making it almost impossible to parry him and lets face getting parried means getting punished hard he does as much damage in a 2 -3 light attack spam that most heroes do with 1 heavy attack but he has no worry doing it so punishing him is almost impossible.


The other day i play a light attack spamming orochi rematched him played I orochi and 90% of my attacks were just top lights and i beat him that says allot.

Why would any one throw a heavy attack when they can do the same **** with 2 light attacks and not have to worry about being parried? Why would u ever risk the deflect unblockable when you can light attack do the same dps with out having to risk getting your face chopped off going for the deflect. ? why would you try and use any of his actual moves when light attacks are safe and punish so hard?

My point is he does to much damage for how easy his lights spam out.

The ****ing valk/pk have to work 100x harder to do anywere near the orochi dps. the assassins in this game are 90% of picks now and 75% of them are orochi because they are safer to play then the heavies, why would i pick LB/Warden/Cent/Raider/Warlord When i can pick an assassin that can dodge easy and cap on the dodges never have to throw heavies and health bars are like what 20 points difference maybe ? whats that 1-2 light attacks whoopty ****.

ignore orochi all the sin classes in this game need a nerf to health pools or the heavy/hybrids need a buff to health, orochi is just the worst ( and the fact that i see 60-70% of my fights are against oro says allot ) they do ******ed damage with light attacks for how fast they are.

They need nerf to damage or a nerf to speed,i would suggest they nerf the damage because his speed is whats annoying but allows him to actually fight nerfing the damage would even out his speed.

They already nerfed his damage so further doing so would make him a freaking mosquito. And his lights used to be awkwardly slow before the rework, that's why everyone was spamming the hell out of top light.

I honestly refuse to believe that someone could ALWAYS get away with only spamming lights, and before i get assaulted and called a after-rework Roach noob, i want to clarify that im rep 2 Orochi and i hit that beforr the rework.

EDIT: As a follow up question since im curious, what is it exactly with Orochi spam that makes him so much worse than PK and shinobi for example? Is it that one additional light because despite them having only 2-hit light combo i would guess you'd have as much problems fighting then as well?

Legion25846
06-18-2018, 04:47 PM
Its the free lights after every hit that is insane to me you haveless time to react to a light attack from orochi then you do Guard break that's a small window and if he swaps sided on you all the time its almost 2 free hit after landing anything.

My biggest complaint is that they have no need to use heavy attacks at all and parrying there lights is pretty much impossible so they just stand there and wait for me to attack them, not all but 85% of orochi players i fight only play counter i attack they spin i get hit by spin then 2 light attacks in a row rinse repeat. If you have an answer i'm all ears but unless i get lucky on a block i just get light spammed all game.

its not like they are just coming at me and light spamming top attacks that would be easy to figure out its the counter wait game most of them just look at me until i do something then smack smack, its not hard i can do it on oro and i don't even play them they attack so fast they interrupt 99% of other characters lights so they can spin or just hit you faster then you hit them see red click, hard to guard break them its to easy to counter they can either light attack or break it, hard to hit them cause they hit first.

the speed in which the attack comes at is to fast it makes even counter playing them hard.

Lord_Cherubi
06-18-2018, 05:24 PM
Its the free lights after every hit that is insane to me you haveless time to react to a light attack from orochi then you do Guard break that's a small window and if he swaps sided on you all the time its almost 2 free hit after landing anything.

My biggest complaint is that they have no need to use heavy attacks at all and parrying there lights is pretty much impossible so they just stand there and wait for me to attack them, not all but 85% of orochi players i fight only play counter i attack they spin i get hit by spin then 2 light attacks in a row rinse repeat. If you have an answer i'm all ears but unless i get lucky on a block i just get light spammed all game.

its not like they are just coming at me and light spamming top attacks that would be easy to figure out its the counter wait game most of them just look at me until i do something then smack smack, its not hard i can do it on oro and i don't even play them they attack so fast they interrupt 99% of other characters lights so they can spin or just hit you faster then you hit them see red click, hard to guard break them its to easy to counter they can either light attack or break it, hard to hit them cause they hit first.

the speed in which the attack comes at is to fast it makes even counter playing them hard.

Focusing on his dodge attack is the key, i don't know the details but at least it feels a LOT slower than his normal lights. As i mentioned before i never try to parry his normal lights because that just won't happen very often on PS4. BUT parrying his dodge attack is rather easy and it gives you at least that one free hit in before he will presumably try to do it again. Spammers always try to open with it because they think it's a easy way to start a combo but when they've been doing it for so long it might take them several attemps to understand that it simply isn't working. Sometimes i make this mistake as well, i don't spam but i like to use it a lot. But if my enemy has blocked, parried or god forbid deflected me 3 times in a row i will notice that and adapt to the situation, avoiding it and giving out more free parries.

I hope this helps at least a little bit :)

Alustar.
06-18-2018, 06:17 PM
They already nerfed his damage so further doing so would make him a freaking mosquito. And his lights used to be awkwardly slow before the rework, that's why everyone was spamming the hell out of top light.

I honestly refuse to believe that someone could ALWAYS get away with only spamming lights, and before i get assaulted and called a after-rework Roach noob, i want to clarify that im rep 2 Orochi and i hit that beforr the rework.

EDIT: As a follow up question since im curious, what is it exactly with Orochi spam that makes him so much worse than PK and shinobi for example? Is it that one additional light because despite them having only 2-hit light combo i would guess you'd have as much problems fighting then as well?

Wish the way peacekeeper is and was before her rework the devs added in a delay animation that prevents her from continuously double tapping light hits in rapid succession like she used to on release of the game. Orochi doesn't seem to have that same treatment. With Shinobi, if you hit from the same side with your lights, the second is guaranteed(or used to be). additionally, neither of those characters hit that hard with their respective light combos anymore, with PK being the softest hit. So, you could hit someone with only lights with PK, but it's going to take forever to kill a player that way.

VampireDovah
06-18-2018, 07:53 PM
As a former orochi main, it would be nice lights were more balanced in exchange for maybe a bigger deflect window or a longer chain into an unblockable, or just an unblockable outside of deflect in general.