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Multimetal
07-13-2008, 09:56 AM
I've been reading a lot of WW2-era flight and test reports lately, some interesting info has come to light lately about gun convergence-
"With most of our effort devoted to dogfighting ground units, we sighted our eight guns to converge at 1,000 yards, for example, and psychologically sledge-hammered army units and equipment." Colonel Jim Tipton, 358th FG, 1945

"The armament of this ship was normal, 4x Mk 108 30mm cannon in the nose of the fuselage firing forward and synchronized for 500 yards." Test report of captured Me-262, 1945

Seems like many pilots were setting their convergence further out than I would expect!
Another report, which I can't quote exactly, talked about setting the outer 4 guns of a group's P-47s at 400yds and the inner 4 at 300 for a better overall pattern, I wish we could do this in the game as the guns are seperated into 2 groups.

Multimetal
07-13-2008, 09:56 AM
I've been reading a lot of WW2-era flight and test reports lately, some interesting info has come to light lately about gun convergence-
"With most of our effort devoted to dogfighting ground units, we sighted our eight guns to converge at 1,000 yards, for example, and psychologically sledge-hammered army units and equipment." Colonel Jim Tipton, 358th FG, 1945

"The armament of this ship was normal, 4x Mk 108 30mm cannon in the nose of the fuselage firing forward and synchronized for 500 yards." Test report of captured Me-262, 1945

Seems like many pilots were setting their convergence further out than I would expect!
Another report, which I can't quote exactly, talked about setting the outer 4 guns of a group's P-47s at 400yds and the inner 4 at 300 for a better overall pattern, I wish we could do this in the game as the guns are seperated into 2 groups.

Jaws2002
07-13-2008, 10:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Multimetal:
I wish we could do this in the game as the guns are seperated into 2 groups. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif You can. Just set difference convergence for "cannons and MG's" in the convegence menu.

Multimetal
07-13-2008, 10:03 AM
Ahhhh, so simple! Thanks Jaws.

Rjel
07-13-2008, 10:13 AM
It makes sense to set them for longer range especially if a fighter was on a dedicated ground attack mission. I've read that a lot of WWII era pilots tended to underestimate the range to target by a factor of two times or more. If you watch much real life ground attack guncam film from WWII, you'll notice the tracers crisscrossing a lot of the time.

VW-IceFire
07-13-2008, 10:51 AM
Still...standard USN practice was to converge at 300 yards and the RAF was setting their BoB aircraft to converge even closer than that after they learned how ineffective the .303 was at longer ranges.

LEBillfish
07-13-2008, 11:03 AM
You also need to take into consideration speed of the aircraft and the natural instinct as when to shoot.....Now that might say "well instinct + reaction time = shorter convergence" Yet in truth your instinct is thrown off by the speed be it the ground or another plane coming at you even quicker plus the natural excitment of attacking.

So I'd "assume" most folks would fire early...Yet a bouncing aircraft is NOT a stable sniper platform.....So at such ranges it ends up in my opinion spray and pray it covering a much larger area.

K2

arjisme
07-13-2008, 11:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rjel:
It makes sense to set them for longer range especially if a fighter was on a dedicated ground attack mission. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Or on dedicated bomber interception missions, such as with the 262.

RedToo
07-13-2008, 12:58 PM
Shooting at other planes flying in the air - short convergence.
Shooting at other planes parked on the ground - long convergence.

Works for me.

RedToo.

dbuff
07-14-2008, 11:34 AM
agreed ^

Blutarski2004
07-14-2008, 12:37 PM
A greater convergence distance also meant a longer duration of strafing fire before it became necessary to pull up from the strafing run.

Pigeon_
07-18-2008, 05:50 PM
When reading about the 1000 yard convergence setting, I actually thought the pilots would do this to make the area of the impacting bulets wider. This will lead to more kills when strafing infantery groups, as you only need one or a few hits to kill a man. I don't like to think about this stuff though... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

I like to set my convergence point according to the speed I will most likely be flying at. It will be very close when I'm chasing Stukas in the p.11, and it will be quite far when I'm BnZ-ing in the 262. And then there's everything in between of course...

Ernst_Rohr
07-18-2008, 07:02 PM
In my squadron (virtual navy) most of us fly with 305m/1000yards and after you figure it out, it works great.

Works really well for me, since I have a tendency to shoot earlier than my convergence allows.

Best trick is to run a standard quick mission and see when your brain is telling you "shoot" and look at where the target is in your sights. Then go back and do the same mission and enable tags and look at what the targets range is. Set your convergence on that number, or a little before and your generally bang on. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Tully__
07-19-2008, 01:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ernst_Rohr:
In my squadron (virtual navy) most of us fly with 305m/1000yards... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Perhaps you meant 1000 feet?

BWaltteri
07-19-2008, 03:14 AM
In game terms 500 meters sound good for Me-262, and 100 good for a Gladiator.

But in real life there were even smaller distances used, depending entirely on the planes flown and encountered.

Xiolablu3
07-19-2008, 05:46 AM
Convergeance is really not too important for aircraft with nose guns, like the Me262, often they were set for very slight convergeance.

Are you sure he was talking about a P47? Maybe the USAAF pilot was talking about nose guns in a B25 ground attack plane?

This would explain the long convergeance settings.

zardozid
07-19-2008, 10:18 AM
I read somewhere that German pilots attacking bomber formations tried to stay "outside" the effective area of the 50cal guns...they would start shooting around 700meters and continue shooting til around 300meters when they would break-away and down...with an attack coming from ahead or from the bombers 2o'clock position this would mean a matter of seconds (converging speeds) to get your shots off...500meters convergence would fall into this area...also with cannon shells velocity and kinetic energy doesn't play a role in the destructive power of the projectiles (they explode)...its not the same as getting in close with 303's.

crucislancer
07-19-2008, 10:37 AM
Just off the top of my head (which needs more coffee), here are some books that I've read that mention convergence distance or at what distance the pilot would fire:

Fighter Boys - RAF set theirs to 250 yards (down from 400) during the Battle of Britain.

To Fly and Fight - Bud Anderson mentions frequently that he would fire around 250-300 yards, sometimes continuing to fire as close as 100 yards.

Corsair Aces of World War II - quote from Ken Walsh:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The guns were boresighted to 1000 ft. The electric sight had rings covering so many mils, 1000 ft equalling one mil. If the Zero covered 40 mils, you knew he was 1000 ft away </div></BLOCKQUOTE>