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View Full Version : Melee moves on block



CandleInTheDark
06-13-2018, 03:50 PM
So with everything we have seen and hear din the last few days, we know that at least two of the Wu Lin characters get something they are able to do upon being blocked with Nuxia's bind weapon that Roman spoke of or palm strike on being dodged, whiffed or on regular (not superior) block in the case of Tiandi.

So what I was wondering is if this is something that the devs might look at towards more characters (ie the centurion already has his punch) as a way of cracking people who passively block and whether a melee move that will beat the first move of most if not all chains but can be dodged and punished in turn would make attacking more beneficial without adding 400ms attacks to everyone's kit.

Some characters would already have something like this that could be modified to add in, like say let the nobushi have her kick if a light is blocked (I haven't played her for a prolonged period in a while but I believe it is only on a light that hits or whiffs she gets that?) or the peacekeeper's kick from guardbreak, others would need something mo-capping, but I wondered if it was something worth considering.

As a side point I know also that we have things like Valkyrie's soft feint to bash or those who get bashes off of dodges, so it might be a case of make some tools more useful than they are if making them accessible in more situations might make the move op, it was just an idea in general that came from what we know of the new heroes.

SpaceJim12
06-13-2018, 05:31 PM
While this mechanics looks nice and intresting, I'm very concern about what it will lead to.
As I mentioned before, devs should stop bring new mechanics if they want newcommers to stay. First, devs tone down parry with all soft feints/cancels. Now they want to tone down blocks, cause you always will have a chance to be punished cause you blocked attack. So, defence will become almost useless. So game will become into "who will strike first successfully or have better hyper armor".
We need to see how this mechanic will work, but I really don't sure we need something like this right now.
And if old characters won't have this mechanic it will make Chinese guys leaders of the battlefield.

Lord_Cherubi
06-13-2018, 06:14 PM
While this mechanics looks nice and intresting, I'm very concern about what it will lead to.
As I mentioned before, devs should stop bring new mechanics if they want newcommers to stay. First, devs tone down parry with all soft feints/cancels. Now they want to tone down blocks, cause you always will have a chance to be punished cause you blocked attack. So, defence will become almost useless. So game will become into "who will strike first successfully or have better hyper armor".
We need to see how this mechanic will work, but I really don't sure we need something like this right now.
And if old characters won't have this mechanic it will make Chinese guys leaders of the battlefield.

100% agree with this. I don't mind unique mechanics, they make the characters and the game itself interesting and varied. But they need to be really careful with this, all of the tutorials encourage newcomers to block and parry attacks but now all of a sudden they should be scared to do that? This game can't turn into more of a spamfest it already is.

New heroes looking good tho, got to wait and see. Some of the moves and ESPECIALLY some of the feats sound crazy on paper but i have faith in the devs, they seem to be getting the hang of things.

Knight_Raime
06-13-2018, 06:22 PM
Viable block strings is something i've been asking for for a few months now. I'm glad they're doing more of them. This means a fight has better pacing and is less staring and going back to neutral.

CandleInTheDark
06-13-2018, 06:34 PM
100% agree with this. I don't mind unique mechanics, they make the characters and the game itself interesting and varied. But they need to be really careful with this, all of the tutorials encourage newcomers to block and parry attacks but now all of a sudden they should be scared to do that? This game can't turn into more of a spamfest it already is.

New heroes looking good tho, got to wait and see. Some of the moves and ESPECIALLY some of the feats sound crazy on paper but i have faith in the devs, they seem to be getting the hang of things.

Regarding the spamfest comment specifically, if you know that your opponent can kick you or whatever if they get a block, then that means there is less of an encouragement to spam, I also wouldn't suggest that it be confirmed damage on block because yes that would put it too far into favour of someone making the first attack. What I am thinking is something like centurion's punch, if he is blocked, he can put you on the back foot with it, at the same time you can avoid the stamina and stun with a dodge and possibly try to punish that. What I would like to see is if someone is being passive, they are forced into making a move. It should not be completely attacker orientated but I think this is a way of shifting away from passive play without adding more 400ms attacks with little recovery between chains or infinite attack chains.

I do agree though that when we are teaching new players to block, then there would need to be something telling them but it is possible you need to mind the next attack, though that is the case as it stands if a heavy is blocked.

Knight_Raime
06-13-2018, 06:45 PM
While this mechanics looks nice and intresting, I'm very concern about what it will lead to.
As I mentioned before, devs should stop bring new mechanics if they want newcommers to stay. First, devs tone down parry with all soft feints/cancels. Now they want to tone down blocks, cause you always will have a chance to be punished cause you blocked attack. So, defence will become almost useless. So game will become into "who will strike first successfully or have better hyper armor".
We need to see how this mechanic will work, but I really don't sure we need something like this right now.
And if old characters won't have this mechanic it will make Chinese guys leaders of the battlefield.

Nothing here is actually new though. Being able to continue an attack after a whiff is something that's doable right now. This is just taking that slightly further and allowing someone to do a special move after a whiff. And we have a few things that still work on block. Like centurions punch. Or bushi doing her kick after a blocked heavy. And then we have a few examples of special moves being feintable into something else. Like highlander. or being able to cancel an unblockable into a dodge. like Shaman with her unblockable left heavy into a dodge attack or empty dodge.

Nuixa's special property of being able to grapple your weapon if you block is likely only to be on certain attacks. Not in general. And considering it's highly recommended for you to attack her during her assault (ala what roman mentioned in the IGN video) it seems logical to assume the attacks she can grapple your weapon with will have a big tell to them. Or be slow enough in the general sense that someone with reasonable reaction will be able to counter it.

By making more things applicable after block doesn't get rid of defense. Nor are there any heros in the game that currently can be anything close to how block strings work in other fighter games. All it's doing is upping the skill ceiling required in order to be able to defend yourself from everything. Which For honor really needs. It's much better that they move this route rather than making blocking mechanically harder to do. Which is the only other option.

It's far too easy to react block things. And on top of that it leads back into staring contests in neutral where the fight is reset. That's not healthy for a fighter. The devs still need to address the buffer issue and add varied increments to attacks to making things harder to block. But viable block strings is a thing this game also needs. And it seems the devs acknowledge this to some degree if we take these new hero designs as evidence.