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Eyyupyeser95
06-12-2018, 10:57 AM
I need to work my *** of to kill someone while an orochi can light spam me to death

Charmzzz
06-12-2018, 01:06 PM
Holy, you still trying? I switched to Zerker after 3 weeks of pain and only a handful of executions (cause you barely get one at all...). MUCH more fun and after 3 days I started to pull off Stats that I could do on my Rep 50 PK.

Just join the FOTM Train, go Zerker, Conq, Kensei, Orochi or Shaman.

Alustar.
06-12-2018, 01:13 PM
I was using shaman before it was cool. /hipstersmugface

Vakris_One
06-12-2018, 01:20 PM
I was using shaman before it was cool. /hipstersmugface
I was using Kensei before people realised he had a dodge attack and a big long sword :p

ChampionRuby50g
06-12-2018, 01:26 PM
I use the ďunderpoweredĒ characters because I like a challenge (:

Alustar.
06-12-2018, 01:27 PM
I was using Kensei before people realised he had a dodge attack and a big long sword :p

That dodge attack still ****s with me...

Vakris_One
06-12-2018, 01:39 PM
That dodge attack still ****s with me...
Well then ya shouldn't disrupt someone when they have a Nobushi on the ground dammit! ;)

Fairemont
06-12-2018, 03:44 PM
The other night I got fed up with playing Nobushi and getting stomped by everyone and picked up PK and without even having any idea what I am doing did vastly better than I did with Nobushi, who I know inside and out and study and practice with on a daily basis.

Pk takes a few attacks to wear someone down but she is by no means weak.

Felheric
06-12-2018, 04:01 PM
I think very simple tweaks could make her good again in dominion eg. remove confirmed light of heavys both dodge attacks and normal, give her same dmg but full physical so you can start combo of that, or you can dodge cancel same as shaman which would improve her mobility under pressure. If you try to be fancy with her and actually dodge attack while in 1v2 or more situation you eating heavys or free gb because she has such huge recovery even on hit. not mention that her dodge attack suck also because they are straight thrust so she cant hit multiple people like others can. I mean her deflect is complete joke also to use in dominion not only because is bleed but it has even bigger recovery, orochi can get 2 top heavys why you in animation before you are able to block.
Pretty much same solution cut recovery atleast in half, full physical, and make it combo starter. Also change dmg numbers with first light to second light dmg. And I am happy.
She feels like sitting duck where or you can do is sit in place and parry or counter attack with zone not like assasin who can dance around battlefield.

BlowHard74728
06-12-2018, 04:32 PM
The moment you realize most of the hero's zones do the same or more damage than pk heavy 😬

Alustar.
06-12-2018, 05:21 PM
Well then ya shouldn't disrupt someone when they have a Nobushi on the ground dammit! ;)

That was a accident! :(

BTTrinity
06-12-2018, 05:22 PM
Lol, while I agree with your post... Just expect for her to be treated the same way as Nobu after her stats plummeted.... "YOU GET NO LOOOOOVE"

UbiJurassic
06-12-2018, 08:40 PM
The team is certainly keeping an eye on the Peacekeeper's performance since her changes went live with the start of Season 6. There's no changes incoming for her at this time, but the team will continue to monitor her performance and will make appropriate adjustments should we find that she isn't performing as well as intended.

The_B0G_
06-12-2018, 08:58 PM
Pk seems pretty balanced right now, if anyone needs a damage buff it's valk.

Eyyupyeser95
06-12-2018, 11:11 PM
The team is certainly keeping an eye on the Peacekeeper's performance since her changes went live with the start of Season 6. There's no changes incoming for her at this time, but the team will continue to monitor her performance and will make appropriate adjustments should we find that she isn't performing as well as intended.

Thank you ubijurassic but the thing is pk relies to much on her bleed damage and since light spam is a problem for assasins i can be spammed to death before the bleed kills my opponent and i need to work my *** of way more then an orochi for example

The_B0G_
06-13-2018, 02:53 AM
Thank you ubijurassic but the thing is pk relies to much on her bleed damage and since light spam is a problem for assasins i can be spammed to death before the bleed kills my opponent and i need to work my *** of way more then an orochi for example

What?

Charmzzz
06-13-2018, 07:38 AM
Pk seems pretty balanced right now, if anyone needs a damage buff it's valk.

IF PK is balanced then Zerker, Conq, Orochi, Shaman and Kensei are massively OP. Have a look at the Winrates here: https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-gb/news-community/detail.aspx?c=tcm:154-325754-16&ct=tcm:154-76770-32

That was BEFORE PK got nerfed hard. There she was on par with the reworked Cast plus Shaman. There is no way she will be up there anymore.

The_B0G_
06-13-2018, 08:09 AM
IF PK is balanced then Zerker, Conq, Orochi, Shaman and Kensei are massively OP. Have a look at the Winrates here: https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-gb/news-community/detail.aspx?c=tcm:154-325754-16&ct=tcm:154-76770-32

That was BEFORE PK got nerfed hard. There she was on par with the reworked Cast plus Shaman. There is no way she will be up there anymore.

Well yeah, those are the best at the moment. Even though I don't see many conqs personally, all I'm saying is she isn't that bad right now, I'd also say theres a good chance Orochi will be getting a nerf soon.

Charmzzz
06-13-2018, 08:32 AM
Well yeah, those are the best at the moment. Even though I don't see many conqs personally, all I'm saying is she isn't that bad right now, I'd also say theres a good chance Orochi will be getting a nerf soon.

Did you play her? She IS bad now, compared to most of the DLC Cast and the reworked Heroes. Her only strength is her Zone Option Select in Duels. That's it. Everything else she has left is done better by other Heroes.

DrinkinMyStella
06-13-2018, 09:00 AM
but if she gets a dmg increase would that make her too much along with her bleed? I've never used her so thats me asking.

Charmzzz
06-13-2018, 10:41 AM
but if she gets a dmg increase would that make her too much along with her bleed? I've never used her so thats me asking.

Thing with her bleed in 4v4 is: everyone is running high debuff resist. Cancel out 20-40% of her bleed Damage all the time for a minor Defense loss. In Duel she is probably fine now, around 50% Winrate, but in 4v4 she became unplayable. You deal Mosquito-like Damage, your Dagger Cancel or bleed followup after landing a Heavy does 10 bleed Damage which gets reduced to 8 or 6, IF you can land a GB your 38 bleed Damage will be only 30 / 22. Compare that to the other Heroes GB punish...

PK is completely gimped in 4v4. I tried for 2 -3 weeks to make her work. Gave up and switched to Zerker, Rep 3 now, dealing tons of Damage, getting free GB's from a Deflect into a guaranteed Heavy for 33 / 38 Damage, executing masses of enemies, getting hits in due to Hyperarmor. Man, I have a blast on him and pull off the same Stats after 3 Reps as I could on my Rep 50 PK before her Rework *cough - NERF - cough*.

DrinkinMyStella
06-13-2018, 12:34 PM
Thing with her bleed in 4v4 is: everyone is running high debuff resist. Cancel out 20-40% of her bleed Damage all the time for a minor Defense loss. In Duel she is probably fine now, around 50% Winrate, but in 4v4 she became unplayable. You deal Mosquito-like Damage, your Dagger Cancel or bleed followup after landing a Heavy does 10 bleed Damage which gets reduced to 8 or 6, IF you can land a GB your 38 bleed Damage will be only 30 / 22. Compare that to the other Heroes GB punish...

PK is completely gimped in 4v4. I tried for 2 -3 weeks to make her work. Gave up and switched to Zerker, Rep 3 now, dealing tons of Damage, getting free GB's from a Deflect into a guaranteed Heavy for 33 / 38 Damage, executing masses of enemies, getting hits in due to Hyperarmor. Man, I have a blast on him and pull off the same Stats after 3 Reps as I could on my Rep 50 PK before her Rework *cough - NERF - cough*.

Ah ok that helps me understand now. Well yeah I agree then that she needs a dmg increase as 4v4 is more popular that duel or brawl.

I started using zerker and got him to rep 6 and its just free dmg and free GB and in 4v4 where everyone is trigger happy his HA makes him unstoppable, when I see that i'm against a zerker I crap ,myself because you need to adjust your whole play style.

KitingFatKidsEZ
06-13-2018, 05:14 PM
The moment you realize most of the hero's zones do the same or more damage than pk heavy ��

PKs heavy including the bleed does 30. Better than quite a few others and the overall average amount of damage.
PKs gb+wall punish is still the best out of all assassins as well

Yes its **** for executing but whatever. Just use Bounty hunter and you get the same hp you get from a long execution anway.

I guess in 4s

Thing with her bleed in 4v4 is: everyone is running high debuff resist. Cancel out 20-40% of her bleed Damage all the time for a minor Defense loss
This is actually a valid point. But thats more an issue with the horribly thought out stats than PK herself.

Also i heard there are no gear stats in ranked. Can always play that... ohh wait Kappa

Charmzzz
06-13-2018, 05:36 PM
PKs heavy including the bleed does 30. Better than quite a few others and the overall average amount of damage.
PKs gb+wall punish is still the best out of all assassins as well

Yes its **** for executing but whatever. Just use Bounty hunter and you get the same hp you get from a long execution anway.

I guess in 4s

This is actually a valid point. But thats more an issue with the horribly thought out stats than PK herself.

Also i heard there are no gear stats in ranked. Can always play that... ohh wait Kappa

You forget that Heavy with bleed ends PK chains every time.

KitingFatKidsEZ
06-13-2018, 05:38 PM
You forget that Heavy with bleed ends PK chains every time.

how often do you really want to chain multiple attacks? on how many characters is that a viable thing to do? Its really good on serker i guess. Or like how often is it better to chain attacks instead of just resetting and start feinting from neutral again. It doesnt make much difference in that regard imo.

I thought of it i just dont think its that much of a big deal.

Mhhhh i guess its kind of important in group fights when you target switch and chain attacks. 1v1 i really dont see it.

Then again it also increases the hit stagger. Which is pretty nice for team followups.

Charmzzz
06-13-2018, 05:51 PM
how often do you really want to chain multiple attacks? on how many characters is that a viable thing to do? Its really good on serker i guess.

I thought of it i just dont think its that much of a big deal.

Mhhhh i guess its kind of important in group fights when you target switch and chain attacks. 1v1 i really dont see it.

Then again it also increases the hit stagger. Which is pretty nice for team followups.

Look at Dodge Attacks, many Heroes can chain out of a confirmed hit. Then compare the RAW damage of heavy and light attacks against other Heroes, not with the added bleed, because you can always get staggered between it. Then look at PK chains, she has only 3. Her Deflect is the worst in the game by a good amount. There is just NOTHING going FOR her that a different Hero can do better and has more options.

The only thing that is left for PK is Zone Option Select in Duels. The rest is meh at best.

KitingFatKidsEZ
06-13-2018, 05:59 PM
Look at Dodge Attacks, many Heroes can chain out of a confirmed hit. Then compare the RAW damage of heavy and light attacks against other Heroes, not with the added bleed, because you can always get staggered between it.

...

The only thing that is left for PK is Zone Option Select in Duels. The rest is meh at best.

mhhh fair enough,

i still wish they would have just fixed the zone to 500ms +20 dmg and gone from there.

BadBOO17
06-13-2018, 07:37 PM
pk mains are almost more annoying than having to fight a shinobi. Just because shes more balanced and doesnt destroy anything she comes in contact with anymore doesnt mean she sucks. Also its hilarious that all you pk mains cant play a character that isnt god tier by the way you are all saying you are going to switch to berserker, shaman, and oro. You all sound pathetic

Charmzzz
06-13-2018, 07:41 PM
pk mains are almost more annoying than having to fight a shinobi. Just because shes more balanced and doesnt destroy anything she comes in contact with anymore doesnt mean she sucks. Also its hilarious that all you pk mains cant play a character that isnt god tier by the way you are all saying you are going to switch to berserker, shaman, and oro. You all sound pathetic

I dont know in which Rating you are playing, but I ONLY see S- or A-Tier Heroes picked in my Matches... Sometimes a Shugo, but rest...

Knight_Raime
06-13-2018, 07:46 PM
pk mains are almost more annoying than having to fight a shinobi. Just because shes more balanced and doesnt destroy anything she comes in contact with anymore doesnt mean she sucks. Also its hilarious that all you pk mains cant play a character that isnt god tier by the way you are all saying you are going to switch to berserker, shaman, and oro. You all sound pathetic

Excluding some people i've dealt with pk mains are not "crying" because they're not OP anymore (and tbh i'd still argue they're busted in one instance) but rather because the rework was a major nerf and a minor buff or 2. The same thing happened to nobushi. Both heros are far from being done rework wise. If the devs acknowledged that they were nerfs and more extensive reworks were coming later I doubt people would be this upset about it.

Pk's zone is still too strong. Beyond that she needs a buff to her bleeds. not damage wise or anything. But make them more unique. Since she's considered THE bleed hero now. And her deflect needs a use. Then she'd be in a good spot.
Nobu needs better access to hidden stance with more usable combos. Her retreat off a blocked hit needs to evade better. and her neutral game needs some work.

Both heros are not trash right now and are perfectly usable. I don't think they're in dire need of being adjusted soon. But they shouldn't be left alone like UBI seems to be indicating.

Charmzzz
06-13-2018, 08:29 PM
pk mains are almost more annoying than having to fight a shinobi. Just because shes more balanced and doesnt destroy anything she comes in contact with anymore doesnt mean she sucks. Also its hilarious that all you pk mains cant play a character that isnt god tier by the way you are all saying you are going to switch to berserker, shaman, and oro. You all sound pathetic

Looked you up, you play the second best Hero in Dominion as a Main. So please, silence...

Maxime_Qc-
06-13-2018, 08:40 PM
There's no changes incoming for her at this time.


i litterally see this as an insult !! .. you didn't consult us before making those change and now you telling us that fixing your mistake is not your priority !!! and that we must deal with it !!! ...

very good customer service !

BadBOO17
06-14-2018, 01:51 AM
Looked you up, you play the second best Hero in Dominion as a Main. So please, silence...
Classic charmz move with the look up your stats and tell you youre **** and your opinion doesnt matter haha. Ill give you that raider is probably the best hero in game no matter the game mode and just is unfair to play against and heros like shaman, zerker, kensei, and highlander are so far below him in dominion. But hey youve played one of the best heros in game since launch so i think you are the one thats needs to hush.

ChampionRuby50g
06-14-2018, 02:20 AM
Raiders only really great in 4v4 situations, or when he is ganking someone or the unlocked zone. His main mix-up and heavy attacks are easily Interrupted by a 500ms or quicker light attack.

Charmzzz, also find it pretty hypocritical of you to say ď Looked you up, you play the second best Hero in Dominion as a Main. So please, silenceĒ when youíve played PK, who was considered to be the best, if not one of the best picks in all game modes for over a year, as well as the fact she was banned in tournaments early on, youíve basically only played PK with some Warden and now Beserker who also is one of the best picks in 4v4 or Duel. When I started playing PK in Season 3 or whenever, I can remember thinking how easy it was to do well and get kills compared to Lawbringer and other heroes. Now when I play her, yeah I gotta work a little bit harder but she is still fun and a viable pick, just not at the top of the ladder anymore. Yesterday a mate and I played together, he was PK and he absolutely destroyed and that was due to teamwork and PK still been good. We are also in the high MMR in our region, so it shows she can still be strong in the right hands. To claim that PK is ďabsolutely destroyedĒ is simply false. Yes she is weaker, but itís not a bad thing. She doesnít have to be S-Tier for the games life-span. Is A-Tier not acceptable? Yes she could still use some changes and number fixing, but by no means should it be a priority.

Slab of VB Cans, on Xbox.

Thatís my profile. By no means if FHtracker accurate though. Look it up if you want.

Charmzzz
06-14-2018, 09:06 AM
Classic charmz move with the look up your stats and tell you youre **** and your opinion doesnt matter haha. Ill give you that raider is probably the best hero in game no matter the game mode and just is unfair to play against and heros like shaman, zerker, kensei, and highlander are so far below him in dominion. But hey youve played one of the best heros in game since launch so i think you are the one thats needs to hush.

I didn't relate to your Stats at all, just on your Hero picks.

There you go, Raider 2nd best Hero in Dom in S4: https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-gb/news-community/detail.aspx?c=tcm:154-320343-16&ct=tcm:154-76770-32
S5, third best: https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-gb/news-community/detail.aspx?c=tcm:154-325754-16&ct=tcm:154-76770-32

I never said Raider is S-Tier overall, but he is in the most played game mode. Stop exaggerating what I said, thanks.



Raiders only really great in 4v4 situations, or when he is ganking someone or the unlocked zone. His main mix-up and heavy attacks are easily Interrupted by a 500ms or quicker light attack.

Charmzzz, also find it pretty hypocritical of you to say “ Looked you up, you play the second best Hero in Dominion as a Main. So please, silence” when you’ve played PK, who was considered to be the best, if not one of the best picks in all game modes for over a year, as well as the fact she was banned in tournaments early on, you’ve basically only played PK with some Warden and now Beserker who also is one of the best picks in 4v4 or Duel. When I started playing PK in Season 3 or whenever, I can remember thinking how easy it was to do well and get kills compared to Lawbringer and other heroes. Now when I play her, yeah I gotta work a little bit harder but she is still fun and a viable pick, just not at the top of the ladder anymore. Yesterday a mate and I played together, he was PK and he absolutely destroyed and that was due to teamwork and PK still been good. We are also in the high MMR in our region, so it shows she can still be strong in the right hands. To claim that PK is “absolutely destroyed” is simply false. Yes she is weaker, but it’s not a bad thing. She doesn’t have to be S-Tier for the games life-span. Is A-Tier not acceptable? Yes she could still use some changes and number fixing, but by no means should it be a priority.

Slab of VB Cans, on Xbox.

That’s my profile. By no means if FHtracker accurate though. Look it up if you want.

"Only great in 4v4" - lol. Most played game mode - Dominion 4v4. 2nd and 3rd best Hero in the last 2 seasons in that mode: Raider.

I played PK since Release with 0 idea of how strong she was. I never Zone spammed in Revenge cause I dont like cheesy plays. PK got nerfed PLENTY, literally the first 5 Patches had massive nerfs for her. Then in the end of last year another Zone nerf and BROKEN mixups after the removal of timesnap. Dodge-Recovery Nerfs, almost forgot. Half a year later they sold us the FIX of those broken mixups as a Rework with some massive Nerfs.

You compare S3 PK to now? Cannot take this seriously. Parry Changes, plenty of Nerfs on PK since then, Gear Stat changes (40% bleed resist anyone?), Dodge Recovery and Distance Nerf... Play her now and come back to tell me she can compete with the likes of Conq, Kensei, Shaman, Zerker, Highlander and Orochi. Those are the reworked ones that got depth added and are highly competitive. Nobushi and PK got their "Reworks" and are now in a worse spot than before.

I am completely aware that PK deserved a Nerf for Duels as she had a 58% Winrate (well, now Conq had a 60% Winrate last Season...). But they gimped her so hard that she is barely viable in Dominion anymore. That ONE Dominion game where your Mate destroyed everyone is NOT statistical relevant at all.

Edit: oh ma gawd, ChampionRuby50g playing LB almost exclusively and telling me that I am hypocritical. Lulz. Btw I played Warden (Rep 25 something), Glad (Rep 18 something) and just started Zerker now cause I want to join the FOTM train, too. You playing LB for so long telling me I played the OP PK, hahaha.

Btw PK was banned from ONE tournament afaik. MLG in Season 1 because people cried.

SpaceJim12
06-14-2018, 10:32 AM
After finnaly end up with my Shinobi and LB (rep 8 now both), I just looked for char I could level up during double XP fest. And I decided to pick up PK.
Well, I should agree, that she feels pretty weak. I don't know what people here mean "balanced", but she have nothing special she can do. In 4v4 her bleed top hit, that almost everything you can land successfully, deal too small dmg. For one Conq I didn't even see bleed on HP. It's shown for a moment, and than gone. Sure you can softfeinted heavy to GB, than do three bleed stabs. Well, for Warlord I needed 5 successfully GB+bleed stabs. You think I have my chances for all 5? Not at all. And in the end of it all, you have only one chance. Wait, dodge attack with bleed mix-up. Than repeat. And one mistake will cost you everything.
And you surly can use this rediculos argument, that devs gave about Berserker. "He is sure hard do deal with, but deffenetly not unbeatable"
Sure you have to rape you *** off to kill someone with PK, but you deffenetly CAN kill people.

And btw compared PK with upcoming characters, we deffenetly could put her into the grave.

ChampionRuby50g
06-14-2018, 11:02 AM
.




"Only great in 4v4" - lol. Most played game mode - Dominion 4v4. 2nd and 3rd best Hero in the last 2 seasons in that mode: Raider.

I played PK since Release with 0 idea of how strong she was. I never Zone spammed in Revenge cause I dont like cheesy plays. PK got nerfed PLENTY, literally the first 5 Patches had massive nerfs for her. Then in the end of last year another Zone nerf and BROKEN mixups after the removal of timesnap. Dodge-Recovery Nerfs, almost forgot. Half a year later they sold us the FIX of those broken mixups as a Rework with some massive Nerfs.

You compare S3 PK to now? Cannot take this seriously. Parry Changes, plenty of Nerfs on PK since then, Gear Stat changes (40% bleed resist anyone?), Dodge Recovery and Distance Nerf... Play her now and come back to tell me she can compete with the likes of Conq, Kensei, Shaman, Zerker, Highlander and Orochi. Those are the reworked ones that got depth added and are highly competitive. Nobushi and PK got their "Reworks" and are now in a worse spot than before.

I am completely aware that PK deserved a Nerf for Duels as she had a 58% Winrate (well, now Conq had a 60% Winrate last Season...). But they gimped her so hard that she is barely viable in Dominion anymore. That ONE Dominion game where your Mate destroyed everyone is NOT statistical relevant at all.

Edit: oh ma gawd, ChampionRuby50g playing LB almost exclusively and telling me that I am hypocritical. Lulz. Btw I played Warden (Rep 25 something), Glad (Rep 18 something) and just started Zerker now cause I want to join the FOTM train, too. You playing LB for so long telling me I played the OP PK, hahaha.

Btw PK was banned from ONE tournament afaik. MLG in Season 1 because people cried.

Doesnít change the fact that Raider is easily shut down by any competent player, and even more so by a team who can communicate and work together. You still get one on one fights in dominion you know. Also doesnít change the fact that the majority of the playerbase in Dominion doesnít sit at our level of play, and thus is why Raider appears to be so strong.

Iím with you on the broken mix-ups been passed as a rework to be a disgusting sham from the devs trying to cover their own behinds. Instead of a rework, call it a balance pass and bug fix. Because PK can still compete with the newly reworked heroes in terms of soft-feints and mind games. Will she soft feint that heavy into a bleed or GB? She also gets a dodge heavy that can execute, and be followed up by more bleed damage.

So you mean to tell me this entire time youíve been playing PK you had no idea how strong she was? Surely you canít be serious. Anyone who payed even the slightest attention to this game would have known she was the strongest and the must-pick hero for EZ mode. Even if Iím saying I played PK in Season 3, that still leaves 3-4 Seasons when she was top pick, before all your mentioned changes.

It wasnít one game actually. We played several games together, and we are both at the top everytime. At our MMR, shouldnít that say something? One a coincidence yes, but 10+? Hmmm nah, I donít think so. So your upset that the parry changes made the game fairer for everyone, while not only indirectly nerfing PK but many other heroes? I guess itís only a problem when it happens to your main. Dodge recovery and distance nerf totally justified. Again, making it fair for everyone and a more balanced experience. PK not the only one who suffered.

In 4v4 she is still an incredibly viable pick, is the point Iím trying to get across. She procs bleed for shaman, which is promoting teamwork between players and synergy. Can GB players, deal bleed damage and at the same time allow teammates to demolish the remaining health bar in the phase once the 3 stabs are done and they recover.

Not gonna bother replying to Nobushi because this isnít a conversation about her. Yeah, PK may be in a worse spot, from S to A Tier. Oh how bad that must be for you, not having a main in the top tier level of the game. Long range, consistent ways to punish players, still very safe with very fast light attacks that are not telegraphed well at all. Attack speed doesnít mean everything. Canít forget about still having one of the strongest zones in the game either.

So LB. A hero who came in at 7th, straight in the middle of win charts and who performed poorly against many match-ups. The hero who was only placed high on win lists because of BS feats that should have been nerfed long ago, a frustrating mechanic that almost forces him to rely on turtling (block shove) and one strong move, the impaling charge. What does he have besides those? Highly telegraphed heavy attacks, light attacks that can be parried by a blind man, a shove that can be dodged with all the time in the world, a shove mix up that can easily be negated by rolling backwards. PK was at the top of the list Season 4 so its pretty safe to assume she would have been like that all the way back to Season 1. LB only came 3rd due to his high HP and block shove. After the changes in season 5 he dropped to 7th on the list while PK was second. So who really got shafted by the reworks then, LB or PK? The stats you love so much show it all. Also find it funny how you say ďalmost exclusivelyĒ. Like you skipped right over the Rep 19 Warden, Rep 17 Valkyrie (weakest hero in the game?) and then the other knights and Vikings Iíve played. If FHtracker is accurate, Iíve played 28 days and youíve played 24. So we can easily tell from that, if Iíve ďalmost exclusivelyĒ played LB, youíve 100% excusively played PK, the strongest hero in the game for the majority of FHs lifespan, and only switched to the other heroes who are in the S-Tier rating when PK is dropped to A, besides Warden, who still is a strong pick IMO. So at the end there, are you saying Iíve said PK is OP, or are you admitting she was? Because Iíll be waiting for you to point out exactly where and when I said PK was overpowered. Saying she is the strongest hero in the game and calling her overpowered are two entirely different things.

Are you also suggesting that the ban was unjustified? I donít pay much attention to tournaments but I remember it even making a news article, and it was highlighting the imbalances. That should speak for itself.

Charmzzz
06-14-2018, 12:28 PM
Doesn’t change the fact that Raider is easily shut down by any competent player, and even more so by a team who can communicate and work together. You still get one on one fights in dominion you know. Also doesn’t change the fact that the majority of the playerbase in Dominion doesn’t sit at our level of play, and thus is why Raider appears to be so strong.

I’m with you on the broken mix-ups been passed as a rework to be a disgusting sham from the devs trying to cover their own behinds. Instead of a rework, call it a balance pass and bug fix. Because PK can still compete with the newly reworked heroes in terms of soft-feints and mind games. Will she soft feint that heavy into a bleed or GB? She also gets a dodge heavy that can execute, and be followed up by more bleed damage.

So you mean to tell me this entire time you’ve been playing PK you had no idea how strong she was? Surely you can’t be serious. Anyone who payed even the slightest attention to this game would have known she was the strongest and the must-pick hero for EZ mode. Even if I’m saying I played PK in Season 3, that still leaves 3-4 Seasons when she was top pick, before all your mentioned changes.

It wasn’t one game actually. We played several games together, and we are both at the top everytime. At our MMR, shouldn’t that say something? One a coincidence yes, but 10+? Hmmm nah, I don’t think so. So your upset that the parry changes made the game fairer for everyone, while not only indirectly nerfing PK but many other heroes? I guess it’s only a problem when it happens to your main. Dodge recovery and distance nerf totally justified. Again, making it fair for everyone and a more balanced experience. PK not the only one who suffered.

In 4v4 she is still an incredibly viable pick, is the point I’m trying to get across. She procs bleed for shaman, which is promoting teamwork between players and synergy. Can GB players, deal bleed damage and at the same time allow teammates to demolish the remaining health bar in the phase once the 3 stabs are done and they recover.

Not gonna bother replying to Nobushi because this isn’t a conversation about her. Yeah, PK may be in a worse spot, from S to A Tier. Oh how bad that must be for you, not having a main in the top tier level of the game. Long range, consistent ways to punish players, still very safe with very fast light attacks that are not telegraphed well at all. Attack speed doesn’t mean everything. Can’t forget about still having one of the strongest zones in the game either.

So LB. A hero who came in at 7th, straight in the middle of win charts and who performed poorly against many match-ups. The hero who was only placed high on win lists because of BS feats that should have been nerfed long ago, a frustrating mechanic that almost forces him to rely on turtling (block shove) and one strong move, the impaling charge. What does he have besides those? Highly telegraphed heavy attacks, light attacks that can be parried by a blind man, a shove that can be dodged with all the time in the world, a shove mix up that can easily be negated by rolling backwards. PK was at the top of the list Season 4 so its pretty safe to assume she would have been like that all the way back to Season 1. LB only came 3rd due to his high HP and block shove. After the changes in season 5 he dropped to 7th on the list while PK was second. So who really got shafted by the reworks then, LB or PK? The stats you love so much show it all. Also find it funny how you say “almost exclusively”. Like you skipped right over the Rep 19 Warden, Rep 17 Valkyrie (weakest hero in the game?) and then the other knights and Vikings I’ve played. If FHtracker is accurate, I’ve played 28 days and you’ve played 24. So we can easily tell from that, if I’ve “almost exclusively” played LB, you’ve 100% excusively played PK, the strongest hero in the game for the majority of FHs lifespan, and only switched to the other heroes who are in the S-Tier rating when PK is dropped to A, besides Warden, who still is a strong pick IMO. So at the end there, are you saying I’ve said PK is OP, or are you admitting she was? Because I’ll be waiting for you to point out exactly where and when I said PK was overpowered. Saying she is the strongest hero in the game and calling her overpowered are two entirely different things.

Are you also suggesting that the ban was unjustified? I don’t pay much attention to tournaments but I remember it even making a news article, and it was highlighting the imbalances. That should speak for itself.

Raider chained Zone being unparryable for anyone except the target is NOT easily shut down and deals a massive amount of Damage to everyone. Raider coming from behind with an unblockable cutscene which is not interrupted by any hit is NOT easily shut down. Fact is he was / is the 2nd / 3rd best Pick in 4v4 Modes.

PK soft-feints are not comparable to other Heroes soft-feints. PK has none, zero, 0 ways to force a reaction because everything she can do is blockable or cgb-able. You can just turtle her and she is shut down, much more than Raider is with his unblockable mixup from neutral.

I knew how strong she was, that's why I NEVER EVER complained about the nerfs back in the old Seasons. PK was only EZ mode if you played with Zone Option select exclusively which is a thing I never did. As I said, cheesy gameplay like going for Raider Stampede or LB Impale all the time are not my thing.

Giving the most nimble Character worse dodge recovery than Shaman is justified? Yeah, Ok Bro... Shaman is a better Assassin than PK in every way now, Zerker and Orochi, too.

In 4v4 she is totally gimped. Bleed being reduced by 20-40% without any way to compensate, please look at the Damage she deals then. It is, by a large amount, the smallest Damage. First Light is down to 13 Damage, being a 500ms move. Kensei 20 Damage, Zerker 15 Damage, Orochi 15/22 with the same speed. PK Heavy is 20 Damage + 10 Bleed (reduced to 6/8). Other Heavys deal 30+ Damage, up to 45 (Raider, you know...) #balance

PK is NOT A-Tier in Dom anymore. She lost everything and gained little. She was a very safe Character due to her dodge recovery and dodge distance plus Zone Option select. All gone except the Option select which was nerfed to 15 Damage. Other Zones deal what? Mostly 20+ Damage. The rework made PK even MORE one-sided to go for Zone Option select, then wait until Stam recovers.

You listed alot of good things about LB and say he has "one good move". Shove-on-Block is ridiculously good, Impale is the second best ganking move in the game, he has a 500ms Light from Top, he has an unblockable opener... He was 3rd place in Duels in S4 and only dropped in S5 because the reworked Heroes got so much love plus the parry changes hit him pretty hard. But the parry changes hit PK even harder, all you get now is 30 Damage (if opponent has 0 Debuff Reduction, else it is 26 / 28) from a Light parry on PK. LB get's 45 plus Stun! How is that balanced?

I am fine with the parry changes, I really love them. The thing is that PK getting such small Damage from parries is not "fair" imo, to use your words.

Glad one of the strongest Heroes? Are you kidding me? He is WAAAY down in the list of Winrate... S4 50% in Duels, 46% in Dominion. S5 45% in Duels, 44% in Dominion. He is one of the weakest Characters and the Devs confirmed that.

I went to Zerker because my Main got "Reworked" to be in a really bad spot. She is not fun to play anymore, everything that made her good got nerfed while they added one move which is so terribad, I can only laught about it. It deals 10 blockable bleed Damage, costs a Heavy in Stamina, comes always from Top and ends your chain.

PK always was the strongest Duelist because of her Zone Option select. They didn't touch that, they just nerfed the Damage on it. So instead of balancing the Character and making her fun to play they just totally gimped her and fixed some Bugs. Much wow, stopped playing her after 2-3 weeks of suffering. You don't get executions anymore. Opponents who should bleed to death can kill you 10 times in that timeframe, use a heal feat, heal on minions or run away to a zone to heal up. It is BS....

The ban was because some Reddit Users moaned about PK being OP back then. It was only a few tournaments and then never again. That she was banned is a BS argument because it is 1 1/2 year ago. That should speak for itself...

The_B0G_
06-14-2018, 03:23 PM
You guys will never agree about pk balance, or LB balance, Charmz plays on PC, Champ plays on console. They are two different games. It's hard to block fast lights on console, nevermind trying to parry a light on console.

I have friends that moved to PC after playing FH on console for a year, when they come back to play on console they moan about it being so hard to defend against light spam. Thats why the pk rebalance seems good and fair on console, but you may think it's unfair on PC because people are having a much easier time defending light attacks.

Charmzzz
06-14-2018, 05:00 PM
You guys will never agree about pk balance, or LB balance, Charmz plays on PC, Champ plays on console. They are two different games. It's hard to block fast lights on console, nevermind trying to parry a light on console.

I have friends that moved to PC after playing FH on console for a year, when they come back to play on console they moan about it being so hard to defend against light spam. Thats why the pk rebalance seems good and fair on console, but you may think it's unfair on PC because people are having a much easier time defending light attacks.

Even if that is the case, PK is by a good amount not the best Light spammer anymore. Orochi and Zerker can do this alot better now after their Reworks...

The_B0G_
06-14-2018, 05:08 PM
Even if that is the case, PK is by a good amount not the best Light spammer anymore. Orochi and Zerker can do this alot better now after their Reworks...

Totally agree.

ChampionRuby50g
06-14-2018, 09:36 PM
Raider chained Zone being unparryable for anyone except the target is NOT easily shut down and deals a massive amount of Damage to everyone. Raider coming from behind with an unblockable cutscene which is not interrupted by any hit is NOT easily shut down. Fact is he was / is the 2nd / 3rd best Pick in 4v4 Modes.

PK soft-feints are not comparable to other Heroes soft-feints. PK has none, zero, 0 ways to force a reaction because everything she can do is blockable or cgb-able. You can just turtle her and she is shut down, much more than Raider is with his unblockable mixup from neutral.

I knew how strong she was, that's why I NEVER EVER complained about the nerfs back in the old Seasons. PK was only EZ mode if you played with Zone Option select exclusively which is a thing I never did. As I said, cheesy gameplay like going for Raider Stampede or LB Impale all the time are not my thing.

Giving the most nimble Character worse dodge recovery than Shaman is justified? Yeah, Ok Bro... Shaman is a better Assassin than PK in every way now, Zerker and Orochi, too.

In 4v4 she is totally gimped. Bleed being reduced by 20-40% without any way to compensate, please look at the Damage she deals then. It is, by a large amount, the smallest Damage. First Light is down to 13 Damage, being a 500ms move. Kensei 20 Damage, Zerker 15 Damage, Orochi 15/22 with the same speed. PK Heavy is 20 Damage + 10 Bleed (reduced to 6/8). Other Heavys deal 30+ Damage, up to 45 (Raider, you know...) #balance

PK is NOT A-Tier in Dom anymore. She lost everything and gained little. She was a very safe Character due to her dodge recovery and dodge distance plus Zone Option select. All gone except the Option select which was nerfed to 15 Damage. Other Zones deal what? Mostly 20+ Damage. The rework made PK even MORE one-sided to go for Zone Option select, then wait until Stam recovers.

You listed alot of good things about LB and say he has "one good move". Shove-on-Block is ridiculously good, Impale is the second best ganking move in the game, he has a 500ms Light from Top, he has an unblockable opener... He was 3rd place in Duels in S4 and only dropped in S5 because the reworked Heroes got so much love plus the parry changes hit him pretty hard. But the parry changes hit PK even harder, all you get now is 30 Damage (if opponent has 0 Debuff Reduction, else it is 26 / 28) from a Light parry on PK. LB get's 45 plus Stun! How is that balanced?

I am fine with the parry changes, I really love them. The thing is that PK getting such small Damage from parries is not "fair" imo, to use your words.

Glad one of the strongest Heroes? Are you kidding me? He is WAAAY down in the list of Winrate... S4 50% in Duels, 46% in Dominion. S5 45% in Duels, 44% in Dominion. He is one of the weakest Characters and the Devs confirmed that.

I went to Zerker because my Main got "Reworked" to be in a really bad spot. She is not fun to play anymore, everything that made her good got nerfed while they added one move which is so terribad, I can only laught about it. It deals 10 blockable bleed Damage, costs a Heavy in Stamina, comes always from Top and ends your chain.

PK always was the strongest Duelist because of her Zone Option select. They didn't touch that, they just nerfed the Damage on it. So instead of balancing the Character and making her fun to play they just totally gimped her and fixed some Bugs. Much wow, stopped playing her after 2-3 weeks of suffering. You don't get executions anymore. Opponents who should bleed to death can kill you 10 times in that timeframe, use a heal feat, heal on minions or run away to a zone to heal up. It is BS....

The ban was because some Reddit Users moaned about PK being OP back then. It was only a few tournaments and then never again. That she was banned is a BS argument because it is 1 1/2 year ago. That should speak for itself...

-Raider, I still disagree. If you are fighting him with someone besides you, donít stand right next to your ally because thatís just asking for it. Stand opposite your ally while fighting, Raider tryís the mix up can still be put out of it with a 500ms attack, if the Raider is in revenge you can then easily roll away to create distance so the attack misses and because you are not right next to an ally youíd be the only person the Raider could lock onto. Most raiders will try and get that unlocked zone after a combo for max damage. See them throw a light at a ally? Hit Raider with your own light attack and that zone wonít come your way. Same deal if they feint heavy into stunning tap or dodge into stunning tap. Is all about timin and positioning.

You actually think PK is more nimble than Shinobi? Hmmm, I canít take this seriously. Shinobi is faster due to his super sprint, and his double dash, which is also bugged so you can do it indefinitely until Shinobi goes OOS. So you listed 3 Assassins better than PK, implying that Shinobi and Glad are below her, while she is in the middle, roughly. Iím really just getting the impression here that you want your main Pk to be the best at everything and your just upset that she isnít.

Can you show me the link where the devs confirmed Glad to be one of the weakest characters? Because I can think of a few who would disagree (Valk, Shugo). Glad has plenty of mix ups, unblockables and ways to force a reaction. Doesnít sound weak to me. Plus, wasnít he in S-Tier for the majority of the time heís been out, If not all the time? On a Season 6 console tier list posted on the competitive reddit,he is A tier. Better than they majority of the cast, including my Lawbringer who happens to be bottom B-Tier.

With LB, I worded that poorly. The impaling charge and shove on block is all he has going for him, and his good moves. His 500ms top light is the same as your Pk light, it just does 2 more damage. His shove from neutral is easy to dodge and counter, especially as an assassin so itís just dumb to use in high level play. Assassins can deflect his light after shove, can always dodge attack after shove and punish him. If you are shoved you can react to the light by dodging or see by a small pause if he will GB and you can counter that. On top of that you can roll out of the shove straight away to avoid all of that. You can parry the heavy he throws after shove. As I mentioned above, he is bottom B-Tier and the only thing keeping him there is block shove and impale. Realistically, he should be C-Tier. Iím going off the competitive reddit as well with that. Funnily enough, Raider is low B as well.

I just looked at a PC tier list then, and I quote

ďThis list is widely regarded as correct for the most part on that sub and here, hence it being on their sidebar/resources. OP asked for a tier list, I just linked the only published one between these two subs.

Albeit, all tier lists are subjective. However, high level players generally agree on this list, which is what it's aimed towards.Ē

PK and LB are both A tier in dominion on this list, with PK been higher.
We look at Duels now and we see your favourite characters (coincidence) in S tier. PK, Beserker and Gladiator. Lawbringer sits in C tier.



I would reply more in depth but Iím already late for work.

Knight_Raime
06-14-2018, 09:45 PM
-Raider, I still disagree. If you are fighting him with someone besides you, don’t stand right next to your ally because that’s just asking for it. Stand opposite your ally while fighting, Raider try’s the mix up can still be put out of it with a 500ms attack, if the Raider is in revenge you can then easily roll away to create distance so the attack misses and because you are not right next to an ally you’d be the only person the Raider could lock onto.

You actually think PK is more nimble than Shinobi? Hmmm, I dunno about that. So you listed 3 Assassins better than PK, implying that Shinobi and Glad are below her, while she is in the middle, roughly. I’m really just getting the impression here that you want your main Pk to be the best at everything and your just upset that she isn’t.

Can you show me the link where the devs confirmed Glad to be one of the weakest characters? Because I can think of a few who would disagree (Valk, Shugo). Glad has plenty of mix ups, unblockables and ways to force a reaction. Doesn’t sound weak to me. Plus, wasn’t he in S-Tier for the majority of the time he’s been out, If not all the time?

With LB, I worded that poorly. The impaling charge and shove on block is all he has going for him, and his good moves. His 500ms top light is the same as your Pk light, it just does 2 more damage. His shove from neutral is easy to dodge and counter, especially as an assassin so it’s just dumb to use in high level play. If you are shoved you can react to the light by dodging or see by a small pause if he will GB and you can counter that. On top of that you can roll out of the shove straight away to avoid all of that. You can parry the heavy he throws after shove.

I would reply more in depth but I’m already late for work.

Only dev statement i'm aware of about glad as of recent is that he's not being seen as strong/being as impactful as he was when he launched. Unsure if that's what Charmzzz is referring to.
But to further elaborate Glad is seen as being not really great when his defense is poor, his dodge attacks give GB's on block and can't be varied timing wise like most other assassins, and toe stab being basically useless. The only thing he's recognized for strength wise is his zone and his faster heavies.

DoctorMcBatman
06-15-2018, 02:43 AM
I've been a PK "main" since around season 2 or 3. She's undeniably now in the worst place she's ever been with the "rework." There was a sticky on r/ForHonor for a few weeks with the devs' response to balance feedback, and a dev specifically called what they did to PK a "slight nerf." So, at least some of the devs are quite aware of what they did to PK. Though I guess they don't want to draw too much attention to the fact it was mostly bug fixing and damage nerfing.

PK now has two things that make the enemy need to constantly be wary: zone and top bleed feint - but neither are great risk to return ratios for the PK. The zone is 15 damage and takes half of stamina and the bleed is 10 damage and takes heavy stamina. And by now, people are fairly consistently blocking or parrying my heavy feint into top bleed. This needs to up to the player to direct: left, right, or top regardless of heavy direction. Other than that, she has GB into triple stab, but good luck getting more than 1 or 2 at most on an enemy who's half decent.

I'm OK with the heavy opener damage nerf, maybe not 20, but 33 was a bit high I agree. I am not OK with the lights nerf. It now takes forever to eat away at an opponent's health if they're not an assassin. The bleed stacking is nice, but PK does not have enough ways to reliably deliver bleed. GB is countered at least 75% of the time and people are getting wise to the heavy into top bleed. Dodge attack with bleed is fairly usable I will admit. And zone cancel into bleed is nice. But again, it just takes too long to wear an opponent down with this damage profile. In duels it's OK, but in 4v4 I don't have time to slowly and carefully damage my enemy because by the time I've worn down their health to 30-40%, their teammate(s) arrive.

She's not a bad hero, but like others have said, there are heroes that pretty much do everything she does but a lot better and with more options. She still needs a real rework.

Lord_Cherubi
06-15-2018, 02:52 AM
I think they need to take another look at her kit. I don't really play her much myself but it seems that everytime im against one, they try to force a gb stab but after a few tries they're already out of options so they just start waving around.

She needs more tools, not more damage, that would just brake her again.

Charmzzz
06-15-2018, 07:58 AM
@ChampionRuby50g: Not gonna quote cause of clutter. Still I will answer:

On Raider: I gave you the Winrates. I don't give a fck about Tierlists, I care for real Statistics. Raider was 2nd best in S4 and 3rd best in S5 in Dominion concerning the Top 4% Players, that's a Fact.Sources:
https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-gb/news-community/detail.aspx?c=tcm:154-320343-16&ct=tcm:154-76770-32
https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-gb/news-community/detail.aspx?c=tcm:154-325754-16&ct=tcm:154-76770-32

I know what to do, I really don't need any advice how to play nor did I ask for this. I just give you simple statistical Facts and you come up with "you should do this and that"? Why?

On PK being the nimble Figher: I still stand to the point that she has to be the most nimble close combat Fighter. Shinobi has range and tools to stay at range. PK has to be in danger all the time to get things going, so she should have lower dodge recoveries. She has none of the tools that Shinobi has (unblockables, confirmed double hits, disabling moves, cutscene Sickle Rain). I don't want to have PK above all, right now she is just below ALL the reworked Heroes and she already got her Rework. THAT IS MY CONCERN. She is probably done for a year now until she get's attention again and she got reworked so poorly and is barely viable in Pub Dominions.

On Glad: I gave you the Winrates... Again, Statistics above subjective Tierlists imo. Look at the Season 5 Recap link above, I quote from there:


Gladiator is performing quite poorly in 4v4, and he’s not shining in 1v1 compared to when he was released. People adapted to his playstyle, other Heroes where buffed, and while still being a good duelist he’s not as powerful as he was comparatively. We think his very short Guard duration might create too high of a skill cap to play him properly. We are also going to look at his Feats to increase his power in 4v4 in the future.


Glad has BS plenty of mixups. The Skewer is mostly useless in higher levels of play as it is so slow, you can parry it easily or CGB if feinted. Hell, I do that myself all the time. There was another guy here on the forum calling Glad super strong, I let him pick Glad and played Warden, PK and Glad against him. He got me in 2 Rounds out of over 10 Matches... Look what Knight_Raime said, the only thing going for Glad is his Zone. As soon as you know how to dodge that - he is food.

Could you stop referring to Tierlists? That's a whole other Story. In Duel, people can play PK like this: Zone Option select, dodge roll away until Stamina recovers, rinse and repeat. That one move is so good it keeps her up. The rest of her kit is utter bs compared to the other Reworks. Now, I don't like to play like that, but I have to if I want to win. And if I do ONE mistake I take double or triple the Damage, did you read the Numbers I posted???

And can you STOP saying that I only play S-Tier Champs? Warden was my second Main and he is where in the list? Right...

ChampionRuby50g
06-15-2018, 09:05 AM
@ChampionRuby50g: Not gonna quote cause of clutter. Still I will answer:

On Raider: I gave you the Winrates. I don't give a fck about Tierlists, I care for real Statistics. Raider was 2nd best in S4 and 3rd best in S5 in Dominion concerning the Top 4% Players, that's a Fact.Sources:
https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-gb/news-community/detail.aspx?c=tcm:154-320343-16&ct=tcm:154-76770-32
https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-gb/news-community/detail.aspx?c=tcm:154-325754-16&ct=tcm:154-76770-32

I know what to do, I really don't need any advice how to play nor did I ask for this. I just give you simple statistical Facts and you come up with "you should do this and that"? Why?

On PK being the nimble Figher: I still stand to the point that she has to be the most nimble close combat Fighter. Shinobi has range and tools to stay at range. PK has to be in danger all the time to get things going, so she should have lower dodge recoveries. She has none of the tools that Shinobi has (unblockables, confirmed double hits, disabling moves, cutscene Sickle Rain). I don't want to have PK above all, right now she is just below ALL the reworked Heroes and she already got her Rework. THAT IS MY CONCERN. She is probably done for a year now until she get's attention again and she got reworked so poorly and is barely viable in Pub Dominions.

On Glad: I gave you the Winrates... Again, Statistics above subjective Tierlists imo. Look at the Season 5 Recap link above, I quote from there:


Glad has BS plenty of mixups. The Skewer is mostly useless in higher levels of play as it is so slow, you can parry it easily or CGB if feinted. Hell, I do that myself all the time. There was another guy here on the forum calling Glad super strong, I let him pick Glad and played Warden, PK and Glad against him. He got me in 2 Rounds out of over 10 Matches... Look what Knight_Raime said, the only thing going for Glad is his Zone. As soon as you know how to dodge that - he is food.

Could you stop referring to Tierlists? That's a whole other Story. In Duel, people can play PK like this: Zone Option select, dodge roll away until Stamina recovers, rinse and repeat. That one move is so good it keeps her up. The rest of her kit is utter bs compared to the other Reworks. Now, I don't like to play like that, but I have to if I want to win. And if I do ONE mistake I take double or triple the Damage, did you read the Numbers I posted???

And can you STOP saying that I only play S-Tier Champs? Warden was my second Main and he is where in the list? Right...

I said I disagreed with Raider, which is my own personal opinion. I explained why I disagree. Or would you rather me just say I disagree and leave it at that, and not give reasoning behind why I feel that way? Maybe just all the raiders I face arenít that great, but who can say that for sure.

You say could you stop referring to tier lists like Iíve been doing that this entire debate, when I only just used it then. Yes tier lists are subjective, but when on the competitive subreddit a tier list made by a high level player, and agreed upon by many high level players as well as been a resource on the subreddit, one could argue that itís got truth to it.

If you are referring to me saying this several comments ago ďSo we can easily tell from that, if Iíve ďalmost exclusivelyĒ played LB, youíve 100% excusively played PK, the strongest hero in the game for the majority of FHs lifespan, and only switched to the other heroes who are in the S-Tier rating when PK is dropped to A, besides Warden, who still is a strong pick IMO.Ē
I said that because I obviously have more reps than you in the game, nearly double actually and you think I almost exclusively play LB. You have, according to FHtracker, 16 days on PK and then 4 on your Warden. Thatís more exclusive than any of my heroís as I only have 11 days on my Lb with 4 in Valk been my next highest. Can you not see your hypocrisy then? I seriously donít know what to say. You have a major habit of putting words in peopleís mouth. Never did I claim you only played S-Tier heroís. Can you not read ďbesides WardenĒ, and donít imply that Iíve said it multiple times to you when I didnít even say it.

Charmzzz
06-15-2018, 09:51 AM
Yeah whatever, I'm out. You focus on my hypocrisy rather than on the topic of PK got hit by the Nerf Bat too hard and her Rework being the most lame-*** of them all. You ignore Facts (Statistical Data) and keep using Tierlists of highly competitive players as your argument while 95% of players are not playing like this. Then you follow up by insulting me to play only S-Tier Characters (which I proved wrong) and defending my Main and wanting to have PK above all which is NOT true at all. I posted plenty of Nerf and Rework suggestions here on the forum.

Go spam your Bombs, Impale and Shove-on-Block, have a nice Day.

Arekonator
06-15-2018, 10:22 AM
"You main high tier character so you shoudnt talk."

"Why can't i get reasonable discussion."

:confused:

ChampionRuby50g
06-15-2018, 10:29 AM
Yeah whatever, I'm out. You focus on my hypocrisy rather than on the topic of PK got hit by the Nerf Bat too hard and her Rework being the most lame-*** of them all. You ignore Facts (Statistical Data) and keep using Tierlists of highly competitive players as your argument while 95% of players are not playing like this. Then you follow up by insulting me to play only S-Tier Characters (which I proved wrong) and defending my Main and wanting to have PK above all which is NOT true at all. I posted plenty of Nerf and Rework suggestions here on the forum.

Go spam your Bombs, Impale and Shove-on-Block, have a nice Day.

Good, I was getting tired of this. It was going nowhere. But again, you put words in my mouth that I never said. I know you wonít do it, but please. Quote me exactly where I said that you only play S-Tier characters. You didnít prove anything wrong because there was nothing wrong to prove. I even said it in my most recent comment, did you completely ignore that section because it didnít fit in with your version of events? I did mention though that I agreed with you on PKs rework been a sham, but I guess thatís another thing you either didnít read or ignored. The devs changed something and your not happy about it. But guess what? Thatís the way of life, and this Ubisoftís game, not yours, and they can choose to do whatever the hell they like. Nothing happens the way you want it to all the time. Youíve already accepted that and moved onto the FOTM train, instead of trying something different.

If you think what I was saying was insulting, you havenít heard anything. I wonder how youíd react to a day in my life, my work and what I do. I could imagine it certainly wouldnít be for you. People as thin-skinned as you are donít last long where I come from. Itís especially intriguing because your main form of rebuttal with most members seem to be ďi looked up your FHtracker stats. Your skills arenít great so your opinion is void. You use a strong character so you should have no say on the issue. I also play against Setmyx, so clearly Iím a skilled playerĒ Go with your elitism, Iím holier than thou attitude, and your need to be the best at everything. Now thatís an insult.

Itís also the evening here, but thanks anyway. Itís been fun.

Charmzzz
06-15-2018, 10:42 AM
"You main high tier character so you shoudnt talk."

"Why can't i get reasonable discussion."

:confused:

The Flame War started with BadBOO17 claiming "Also its hilarious that all you pk mains cant play a character that isnt god tier by the way you are all saying you are going to switch to berserker, shaman, and oro. You all sound pathetic". Page 3 here. I countered by mentioning him playing an S-Tier Champ in Dominion himself, insulting others.


Good, I was getting tired of this. It was going nowhere. But again, you put words in my mouth that I never said. I know you won’t do it, but please. Quote me exactly where I said that you only play S-Tier characters. You didn’t prove anything wrong because there was nothing wrong to prove. I even said it in my most recent comment, did you completely ignore that section because it didn’t fit in with your version of events? I did mention though that I agreed with you on PKs rework been a sham, but I guess that’s another thing you either didn’t read or ignored. The devs changed something and your not happy about it. But guess what? That’s the way of life, and this Ubisoft’s game, not yours, and they can choose to do whatever the hell they like. Nothing happens the way you want it to all the time. You’ve already accepted that and moved onto the FOTM train, instead of trying something different.

If you think what I was saying was insulting, you haven’t heard anything. I wonder how you’d react to a day in my life, my work and what I do. I could imagine it certainly wouldn’t be for you. People as thin-skinned as you are don’t last long where I come from. Go with your elitism, I’m holier than thou attitude, and your need to be the best at everything. Now that’s an insult.

It’s also the evening here, but thanks anyway. It’s been fun.

Are you serious? You called me hypocritical in your first comment while I just stated that a guy playing an S-Tier Champ (in Dominion) should not call PK Mains pathetic. Then you continued the insulting by telling me I play only very high tier Champs: "you’ve basically only played PK with some Warden and now Beserker who also is one of the best picks in 4v4 or Duel". And you play a high Tier (even higher than PK) Champ in Dominion yourself...

Another thing from you: "So you mean to tell me this entire time you’ve been playing PK you had no idea how strong she was?" - something I never said. I said that I didn't know how strong PK was when I started playing. That's it. You kept insulting from there on...

ChampionRuby50g
06-15-2018, 11:13 AM
The Flame War started with BadBOO17 claiming "Also its hilarious that all you pk mains cant play a character that isnt god tier by the way you are all saying you are going to switch to berserker, shaman, and oro. You all sound pathetic". Page 3 here. I countered by mentioning him playing an S-Tier Champ in Dominion himself, insulting others.



Are you serious? You called me hypocritical in your first comment while I just stated that a guy playing an S-Tier Champ (in Dominion) should not call PK Mains pathetic. Then you continued the insulting by telling me I play only very high tier Champs: "youíve basically only played PK with some Warden and now Beserker who also is one of the best picks in 4v4 or Duel". And you play a high Tier (even higher than PK) Champ in Dominion yourself...

Another thing from you: "So you mean to tell me this entire time youíve been playing PK you had no idea how strong she was?" - something I never said. I said that I didn't know how strong PK was when I started playing. That's it. You kept insulting from there on...

Calling someone a hypocrite is a form of criticism. If you take criticism as an insult, well Iím sorry (not really).

I disagreed Raider was S-Tier in dominion due to my personal experience in fighting them. You also just used a tier list as a reference, but did you not just say to me an hour ago donít use tier lists to back up points?

Saying I play a higher tier character than PK in dominion is like me saying that water is wet. Of course I do, seeing as my cast of heroes I play is much more diverse than yours is. I fail to see your point with that. All that means is I play more heroes. And all my high repped heroes are in worse spots than any of yours. Besides Warden, of course. If LB didnít have his full bomb loadout, which i donít use, he would not be top 3 and possibly top 5 dominion pick. High repped here meaning over 10, considering 50 is the benchmark.
But the thing is Charmzzz, you do only play high tier characters, besides Warden. Gladiator was the highest tier, may not be now, but youíve been playing him for a while I think. We all know about Beserker been amazing. And PK been the top of that chart for a year. Did that really insult you? But still, I never stated that you only played S-Tier characters, because I mentioned you have played Warden multiple times.

But yeah, looks like your right on that last quote. At least I can put my hand up and admit that, rather than deflect and ignore it just like you do.

DrinkinMyStella
06-15-2018, 11:38 AM
erm not too sure what to respond back as it's turned very hostile in for honor fashion. The facts are PK rework was crap, PK needs an increase in damage that's that. Personally she's still a pain in my backside not as much as she use to be only because I encounter less of her but yes maybe a slight increase on dmg output.

Charmzzz
06-15-2018, 11:44 AM
erm not too sure what to respond back as it's turned very hostile in for honor fashion. The facts are PK rework was crap, PK needs an increase in damage that's that. Personally she's still a pain in my backside not as much as she use to be only because I encounter less of her but yes maybe a slight increase on dmg output.

That's all I tried to show by comparing PK damage numbers and fight options to those of the reworked Characters plus Shaman. Then I got called pathetic, S-Tier only player, no skill cause I can only play with those heroes (which I proved wrong by giving statistical Data). I did not mean to rise the hate level in this thread at all. I am just allergic to people claiming PK deserves to be bottom Tier for a year now cause she was very good since release. That is just wrong imo.

When nerfs for LB and Raider hit (which will definitely happen for LB very soon) I will be watching the threads for those guys on here. ;)

ChampionRuby50g
06-15-2018, 12:01 PM
That's all I tried to show by comparing PK damage numbers and fight options to those of the reworked Characters plus Shaman. Then I got called pathetic, S-Tier only player, no skill cause I can only play with those heroes (which I proved wrong by giving statistical Data). I did not mean to rise the hate level in this thread at all. I am just allergic to people claiming PK deserves to be bottom Tier for a year now cause she was very good since release. That is just wrong imo.

When nerfs for LB and Raider hit (which will definitely happen for LB very soon) I will be watching the threads for those guys on here. ;)

I would stop replying but stop spreading BS. For the 3rd time, I never said you are an S-Tier only player. I also never called you pathetic. Called you thin-skinned, meaning words hurt you. I said that all but one of your heroes are high tier, with PK been S for a year and Glad been S, now A, Beserker is S and Warden is B.

Another thing I never said, and I donít think anyone said In this thread is Pk deserves to be bottom tier for been so good for so long. That is just stupid. No hero should be bottom tier or deserves to be bottom tier.

LB will receive justified nerfs to his feats, which will happen across the board to every hero if the devs are smart (catapult, fire flask). His block shove will undoubtedly get changed, which is a good thing because itís a poor mechanic much like Conqs free GB on heavy was. I donít know what they would do to his impaling charge, as at the moment itís a strong ganking tool, but on parry drains ALL of his stamina, and even on block drains 3/4 of it. Only time will tell. Thatís all of his strong points that will undoubtedly get changed.

Charmzzz
06-15-2018, 12:45 PM
I would stop replying but stop spreading BS. For the 3rd time, I never said you are an S-Tier only player. I also never called you pathetic. Called you thin-skinned, meaning words hurt you. I said that all but one of your heroes are high tier, with PK been S for a year and Glad been S, now A, Beserker is S and Warden is B.

Another thing I never said, and I don’t think anyone said In this thread is Pk deserves to be bottom tier for been so good for so long. That is just stupid. No hero should be bottom tier or deserves to be bottom tier.

LB will receive justified nerfs to his feats, which will happen across the board to every hero if the devs are smart (catapult, fire flask). His block shove will undoubtedly get changed, which is a good thing because it’s a poor mechanic much like Conqs free GB on heavy was. I don’t know what they would do to his impaling charge, as at the moment it’s a strong ganking tool, but on parry drains ALL of his stamina, and even on block drains 3/4 of it. Only time will tell. That’s all of his strong points that will undoubtedly get changed.

But you implied that I play only S-Tier Champs. I even quoted you in my last post on that... Where did I say that YOU called me pathetic? It was the other guy calling "us" PK Mains pathetic. I never said you did.

The guys saying PK should be bottom tier were in another thread, I never said that YOU did, again. And your statements were clearly focused on "PK is fine now" which she is not and which Season 6 Data will surely prove.

ChampionRuby50g
06-15-2018, 12:59 PM
ďBeaides Warden, as well as Warden, Warden is a B tier hero and second most played character on your rosterĒ

Glad was S Tier, now he is A. I said I think you had played him earlier than when he dropped to A.

Youíve been saying Iíve said things I havenít all evening, so of course Iím gonna assume thatís still happening. But glad to see youíve moved past that.

What I want to know, what is your definition of fine? When the season 6 data comes out and PK is say 5th on the leaderboard is that fine? Or what if she is where my LB currently sits, at 7th? I also have said in the past I can get behind number changes to PK to make her damage slightly better. But for the moment, on console, she isnít doing so poorly that she needs immediate attention. That is my take on her.

Eyyupyeser95
06-15-2018, 01:23 PM
Can we keep it civil pls. All i want is for pk to get a damage buff and the thread is going a little out of hand

Charmzzz
06-15-2018, 01:40 PM
“Beaides Warden, as well as Warden, Warden is a B tier hero and second most played character on your roster”

Glad was S Tier, now he is A. I said I think you had played him earlier than when he dropped to A.

You’ve been saying I’ve said things I haven’t all evening, so of course I’m gonna assume that’s still happening. But glad to see you’ve moved past that.

What I want to know, what is your definition of fine? When the season 6 data comes out and PK is say 5th on the leaderboard is that fine? Or what if she is where my LB currently sits, at 7th? I also have said in the past I can get behind number changes to PK to make her damage slightly better. But for the moment, on console, she isn’t doing so poorly that she needs immediate attention. That is my take on her.

Nice, you still have that passive-aggressive tone in your posts. I will just ignore that.

My definition of fine is a healthy 50% Winrate and addressing the lack of options on every OG or DLC Hero who needs attention. PK deserved a Nerf, but they went to far with it. Additionally they sold us Bugfixes as a Rework and, as I said before, my fear is that PK won't be touched again. They probably say that she got her Rework now and won't be looked at in the next year. All that while she is a very one-dimensional Character, even more after her Nerfs. Dodge-Attacks, Light's, Heavy's, Dodge-Recovery, everything got nerfed while not adding GOOD mixups to her. Her Deflect is still the worst in the game. She has no Hyperarmor anywhere. She has no custscene. She has no opener. All she still has is her incredible Zone. If you want to look up my Nerf- and Rework-Suggestions, go ahead, they are spread around several Threads here.

Where is LB on 7th? Are you STILL using the Duel Tier or Winrate List? Most played is Dominion, that's what is important to me. And there PK is pretty much a bad pick now, there are plenty of other Heroes who do her Job much better. Your LB is No.1 in Dom for ages now, I guess even since Release probably. Maybe after Warlord got nerfed, not sure.

If PK is not performing poorly on Console, how is Orochi, Zerker, Kensei, Shaman and Conq doing? They are pretty much the Standard where every reworked Hero should be, that is what they stated before the first Reworks released. Everyone getting a Rework should be on par with those. PK is DEFINITELY not.

ChampionRuby50g
06-15-2018, 01:41 PM
Can we keep it civil pls. All i want is for pk to get a damage buff and the thread is going a little out of hand

If Charmzzz was Australian, this would be considered a calm and civil debate. Usually our debates here involve a lot more swearing, threats and anger, but always end up in laughs and beers.

Eyyupyeser95
06-15-2018, 01:51 PM
If Charmzzz was Australian, this would be considered a calm and civil debate. Usually our debates here involve a lot more swearing, threats and anger, but always end up in laughs and beers.

Do you live in australia? I always wanted to visit it but the memes about everything in australia is trying to kill you turned me away from it tbh

ChampionRuby50g
06-15-2018, 01:57 PM
Do you live in australia? I always wanted to visit it but the memes about everything in australia is trying to kill you turned me away from it tbh

Yeah mate, born and bred here. Iíll link some videos that show you what we are like aha. Also recommend following browncardigan on instagram if you want to see what kinda cookery goes on in our daily lives.

https://youtu.be/0RjC-vh06_c
https://youtu.be/Ns15eHLDv1I

The_B0G_
06-15-2018, 02:19 PM
That's all I tried to show by comparing PK damage numbers and fight options to those of the reworked Characters plus Shaman. Then I got called pathetic, S-Tier only player, no skill cause I can only play with those heroes (which I proved wrong by giving statistical Data). I did not mean to rise the hate level in this thread at all. I am just allergic to people claiming PK deserves to be bottom Tier for a year now cause she was very good since release. That is just wrong imo.

When nerfs for LB and Raider hit (which will definitely happen for LB very soon) I will be watching the threads for those guys on here. ;)

LB is sh*t at even near top tier. You can barely land an attack without a parry. I can't even use him any more, everyone just stares at you and waits. Doubt he'll be getting a nerf.

Charmzzz
06-15-2018, 02:32 PM
LB is sh*t at even near top tier. You can barely land an attack without a parry. I can't even use him any more, everyone just stares at you and waits. Doubt he'll be getting a nerf.

We are talking about Dominion primarily. At least I am, and that is where LB has the highest Winrate due to Bombs, Impale and Shove-on-Block. Devs already stated in the Season Recaps that they will nerf him on those things.

Eyyupyeser95
06-15-2018, 03:08 PM
Yeah mate, born and bred here. Iíll link some videos that show you what we are like aha. Also recommend following browncardigan on instagram if you want to see what kinda cookery goes on in our daily lives.

https://youtu.be/0RjC-vh06_c
https://youtu.be/Ns15eHLDv1I

Okay from the 2 videos i have seen you people over there are awesome! Cant wait to visit it now for sure. Definitly my kind of people

TheTool85
06-15-2018, 06:55 PM
Hmm.
As someone who never even played as a PK i can only trust those PK mains out there who are very upset about her rework. Key word is 'rework' wich, as some PK mains already said, is a status where PK will rest for some time. So i do get the frustration they may have with her...
And yes: there are win rates in official published stats for different game modes showing different heroes performances, on which anyone could rely on in his or her argumentation.
But i'm also with ChampionRuby when he says , if i remember correctly, that facing the so called nerfed or weak heroes, they do absolutely not perform as bad as some parts of the community claim they do. In HIS experience at least. (Not his words exactly, but i think close to)
I too do not think Warden isn't a bad pick for domonion for example.
And i do see PK's still doing just pretty well in this gamemode. Just like Orochis did pre rework, kenseis prework, Shugos da hell, even Valks and Nobushis..
But to be fair: these are my personell encounters with heroes like that.

But let's get back to the Topic.

The_B0G_
06-15-2018, 07:09 PM
We are talking about Dominion primarily. At least I am, and that is where LB has the highest Winrate due to Bombs, Impale and Shove-on-Block. Devs already stated in the Season Recaps that they will nerf him on those things.

Oh ok, yeah his bombs are pretty nuts. Besides his bombs, even his impale isn't really that OP though. He's pretty weak overall IMO.

ChampionRuby50g
06-15-2018, 11:06 PM
Oh ok, yeah his bombs are pretty nuts. Besides his bombs, even his impale isn't really that OP though. He's pretty weak overall IMO.

Thank you. Without bombs, LB wouldnít even be close to where he is on the win rates for dominion. Just find it absurd some people think that feats make a hero one of the best. Itís not as easy been a LB main compared to playing other heroes. Much more of a challenge than just doing heavy feint light over and over again. But thatís the fun of it. Fighting an uphill battle and winning it will always be more satisfying than been at the top and cutting every hero that is weaker than you down.

ChampionRuby50g
06-15-2018, 11:29 PM
Okay from the 2 videos i have seen you people over there are awesome! Cant wait to visit it now for sure. Definitly my kind of people

The Trent from punchy video is a bit of an exaggeration but still funny. Youíll find that we are a pretty welcoming bunch of people, who just want others to respect our culture, work hard and party even harder. If you do visit, visit Melbourne. Probably the furthest place to get too as we are at the bottom of Australia, and we are the most liveable city in the world 5 years running, or something like that. Sorry Jazz117, you Queenslander 😏

ChampionRuby50g
06-16-2018, 11:33 PM
Nice, you still have that passive-aggressive tone in your posts. I will just ignore that.

My definition of fine is a healthy 50% Winrate and addressing the lack of options on every OG or DLC Hero who needs attention. PK deserved a Nerf, but they went to far with it. Additionally they sold us Bugfixes as a Rework and, as I said before, my fear is that PK won't be touched again. They probably say that she got her Rework now and won't be looked at in the next year. All that while she is a very one-dimensional Character, even more after her Nerfs. Dodge-Attacks, Light's, Heavy's, Dodge-Recovery, everything got nerfed while not adding GOOD mixups to her. Her Deflect is still the worst in the game. She has no Hyperarmor anywhere. She has no custscene. She has no opener. All she still has is her incredible Zone. If you want to look up my Nerf- and Rework-Suggestions, go ahead, they are spread around several Threads here.

Where is LB on 7th? Are you STILL using the Duel Tier or Winrate List? Most played is Dominion, that's what is important to me. And there PK is pretty much a bad pick now, there are plenty of other Heroes who do her Job much better. Your LB is No.1 in Dom for ages now, I guess even since Release probably. Maybe after Warlord got nerfed, not sure.

If PK is not performing poorly on Console, how is Orochi, Zerker, Kensei, Shaman and Conq doing? They are pretty much the Standard where every reworked Hero should be, that is what they stated before the first Reworks released. Everyone getting a Rework should be on par with those. PK is DEFINITELY not.

You, of all people, have the gall to have a dig at me for passive aggressive behaviour, when you yourself are the king of that? In 90% of your posts, replying to people who are either complaining about something or just not as good, you always take that tone. Always. Then you bring FHtracker stats into it, because usually youíd have the higher stats than them, and use that as a base for your arguments. As If thatís not passive aggressive. Get over yourself man, and stop been a hypocrite.

Hereís a perfect example in your own reply just then. You ask me a question then answer it yourself with the passive aggressive and smart @ss tone. I was using the duel list as it was the one freshest in my memory, and just as examples so I could get an idea of your thoughts of fair and balanced. But it looks like thatís another thing you got offended at so easily. Been number 1 because of feats. Which will get nerfed across the board. And not every LB runs around with a full bomb load out. Without feats he drops down that ladder, but admittedly is still high. Warlord was also considered to be the best hero in the game across all modes until his nerf, so Iíd say Lb rose up after that. Which didnít happen since release. LB didnít get buffed to where he was now until halfway through Season 1, from memory.

All those characters you listed are performing extremely well. Too well in some cases, so they need a slight tone down. Slight is the key word there. Anymore would be too much. Pretty sure the devs already said Conq was going to receive nerfs in the coming weeks. PK may not be there now, but once she gets number changes, which I hope happens, she will be.

Reading back on this though, you are excited to see the people complain and make nerf threads about Raider and Lb Been nerfed in the future with their reworks? Just because your main did, you want to see other peopleís complain about their mains too, and you seem so certain that these reworks will destroy those characters and your gonna take pleasure from that? Sorry mate, but what kind of person thinks that way?

BadBOO17
06-19-2018, 08:48 PM
Holy, you still trying? I switched to Zerker after 3 weeks of pain and only a handful of executions (cause you barely get one at all...). MUCH more fun and after 3 days I started to pull off Stats that I could do on my Rep 50 PK.

Just join the FOTM Train, go Zerker, Conq, Kensei, Orochi or Shaman.

This is what i meant by pk mains cant handle not being S tier so they switch to other S tier characters