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CandleInTheDark
06-05-2018, 05:39 PM
One dev blog post.

https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-gb/news-community/detail.aspx?c=tcm:154-325754-16&ct=tcm:154-76770-32

1v1 and 4v4 win rates and pick rates. Interesting that among the top 2.5% Peacekeeper only has a 2.9% pick rate (only warlord and shugoki below her) and she is second in the win ratings.

Main takeaways for me

Conqueror (1st) Kensei (3rd) and Berserker (4th) got the biggest changes and are top five with Peacekeeper (2nd) and Shaman (5th).

Highlander up from dead last to mid table.

Nobushi bottom 4 from 6th before her rework.

Bottom five are Warlord, Nobushi, Gladiator, Valkyrie and Orochi. Of those Orochi had a rework, Raider was the one above Warlord if we discount Orochi.

Direct table comparison below

Season 4

https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/resource/en-us/game/forhonor/fh-game/fh_duel_winloss_matrix_v4_small_320624.jpg

Season 5

https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/resource/en-gb/game/forhonor/fh-game/fh_duel_winloss_matrix_layers_326344.jpg

PanzerShrekonin
06-05-2018, 07:24 PM
Interesting. This is all very interesting.

Knight_Raime
06-05-2018, 08:22 PM
It's nice to have. But personally I found more interesting info in the blog post:
~glad might get a feat buff and slower guard decay.
~lawbringer feats likely to be nerfed. Shove on block is getting changed. other non specified changes.
~acknowledgement of highlanders defensive stance being poor.
~valk is being worked on.
~Conq will receive some small nerfs.
~Side dodge recovery to be normalized at some point. (YAS.)

CandleInTheDark
06-05-2018, 08:29 PM
It's nice to have. But personally I found more interesting info in the blog post:
~glad might get a feat buff and slower guard decay.
~lawbringer feats likely to be nerfed. Shove on block is getting changed. other non specified changes.
~acknowledgement of highlanders defensive stance being poor.
~valk is being worked on.
~Conq will receive some small nerfs.
~Side dodge recovery to be normalized at some point. (YAS.)

Yes, also all good information, lol. I was focussing more on the 1v1 as that is where people were more interested last time and I didn't want to direct discussion or essentially copy and paste someone else's work.

I am concerned with the changes they are making to dodge to be honest, there are some characters they have flat out said are supposed to dodge rather than block (Shinobi for example), if they don't have the advantage in dodging, what do they get to compensate? If they get nothing does it hinder them, if they get something is it another step to all the characters being roughly the same with a few different moves? Is either healthy for the game long term?

I was of the same view with guardswitch, naturally someone holding two light weapons can switch stance quicker than someone hauling an axe into another stance, it also made sense that people were better in particular ranges, the problem was that those who were naturally slower did not have a chance to dictate the fight and put someone at their range because of the speed of attacks in some cases, it might well be that normalising that was better for the health of the game though I would have preferred them focus on a means of say the lawbringer having opportunity to put someone at a distance from him and work from there, but will too much standardisation ultimately be a bad thing?

ArmoredChocobo
06-05-2018, 09:01 PM
Nobushi is sub 50, which means any fight she's in, she has less than half a chance at winning.

Think it's time for a re-work, don't you?

PanzerShrekonin
06-05-2018, 09:12 PM
Nobushi is sub 50, which means any fight she's in, she has less than half a chance at winning.

Think it's time for a re-work, don't you?

Centurion too

SPQR!

CandleInTheDark
06-05-2018, 09:45 PM
Given Nobushi was sixth last season it might be worth seeing how she fares in season 6. I had a look at the values in season 4 and 5 and the +/- per character

Nobushi season 4/5

Peacekeeper 51/39
Shaman 49/35
Lawbringer 38/44
Shinobi 58/52
Shugoki 51/54
Aramusha 53/50
Raider 53/46
Warlord 46/50
Gladiator 50/55,
Conqueror 49/33
Berserker 53/44
Warden 52/48
Centurion 54/47
Orochi 48/51
Kensei 50/41
Highlander 61/51
Overall 52/46


+/- (*=rework or major balance start of season 5)

Peacekeeper -12
Shaman -14
Lawbringer +6
Shinobi -4
Shugoki +3
Aramusha -3
Raider -7
Warlord +4
Gladiator +5
Conqueror -16*
Berserker -9*
Warden -4
Centurion -7
Orochi +3
Kensei -9*
Highlander -10*
Overall -6


Total +/- vs reworked characters -44

Total +/- vs rest -19

Worse among all characters receiving a rework or balance pass.

Better than five characters who did not receive major changes, worse than eight.

Most of the places she loses heavily are against the reworked characters, that is a little worrying as she was also had a balance pass but if there is any character you would expect a huge change against it is characters getting a rework, but outside two huge changes she is a little better here, a little worse there. It might be worth seeing where she stands compared to the other characters that had a rework/balance pass now that people are used to them and used to the parry and dodge changes, also how she compares next to the peacekeeper and orochi with them being this season's reworks.

One thing that was interesting is that the change ignoring the reworked characters is all in two other huge results, without peacekeeper and shaman she is a little ahead of where she was last season even with the fact that she had worse numbers against more characters than she had better, the question is what about her changes made her do so poorly against those two with anomalously large changes.

Ultimately overall she is still in the 45-55 range they aim for, that being said, only just and there are eight individual matchups where she is too low as opposed to one where she is too hgih. She could do with some help at some point but there are some worse off or others that have been around where she is for longer

UbiJurassic
06-06-2018, 02:53 AM
Yes, also all good information, lol. I was focussing more on the 1v1 as that is where people were more interested last time and I didn't want to direct discussion or essentially copy and paste someone else's work.

I am concerned with the changes they are making to dodge to be honest, there are some characters they have flat out said are supposed to dodge rather than block (Shinobi for example), if they don't have the advantage in dodging, what do they get to compensate? If they get nothing does it hinder them, if they get something is it another step to all the characters being roughly the same with a few different moves? Is either healthy for the game long term?

I was of the same view with guardswitch, naturally someone holding two light weapons can switch stance quicker than someone hauling an axe into another stance, it also made sense that people were better in particular ranges, the problem was that those who were naturally slower did not have a chance to dictate the fight and put someone at their range because of the speed of attacks in some cases, it might well be that normalising that was better for the health of the game though I would have preferred them focus on a means of say the lawbringer having opportunity to put someone at a distance from him and work from there, but will too much standardisation ultimately be a bad thing?

Just to add some more info to the normalizing of dodge recoveries, it will be coming with the next patch at the end of the month.