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The_B0G_
06-04-2018, 06:13 PM
Anyone else thing this is way too powerful for a first feat with such a fast recharge time? Stun, instant exhaustion, and interrupts anything you're doing, even hyper armor attacks. I never brought this up before because Orochi used to be so limited, but after this buff he got I think something needs to be done about this feat.

Anyone else agree?

BTTrinity
06-04-2018, 06:18 PM
Anyone else thing this is way too powerful for a first feat with such a fast recharge time? Stun, instant exhaustion, and interrupts anything you're doing, even hyper armor attacks. I never brought this up before because Orochi used to be so limited, but after this buff he got I think something needs to be done about this feat.

Anyone else agree?

I've been getting really annoyed with it too since his rework.

It shouldnt get rid of all your stamina, a quick interrupt + daze is fine but putting me OOS is to much.

Tyrjo
06-04-2018, 06:32 PM
Yep, it's definitively too powerful.

The_B0G_
06-04-2018, 06:33 PM
I've been getting really annoyed with it too since his rework.

It shouldnt get rid of all your stamina, a quick interrupt + daze is fine but putting me OOS is to much.

Exactly, even if it was a feat for 2nd or 3rd slot with a slower recharge it would be fine, it feels like every time I'm fighting an Orochi he will use it. If it stays slot 1 feat it needs to be changed. I agree OOS should go.

Ubi-Boat
06-04-2018, 06:35 PM
Hey The_B0G_!

Thank you for reaching out and sharing your feedback here. I have recently seen a thread mentioning this same feedback, so, I will be sure to get these threads into my report to send to the team.

The_B0G_
06-04-2018, 09:40 PM
Awesome thanks, it would also be nice to have something done about traps too, maybe have a 1 trap cap, if you lay down one, your other trap of the same type will disapear, some matches people just have traps littered everywhere, it's ridiculous.

Knight_Raime
06-04-2018, 10:04 PM
To be honest i'd rather it just get moved to a higher tier rather than being nerfed. I recognize some feats are too strong and might need axing (like catapult) or at least be made pick ups. But I really feel like the current way tiers are done is flawed. And nerfing things repeatedly isn't really fixing the issue. Just making feats less fun. (I also think all feats should be unlocked from the get go that way we don't have a snowballing effect with feats in a match.)

Erhanninja
06-04-2018, 11:23 PM
Absolutely agree. I didnít want to put it up because of git gudders. Biggest problemi I have is way tooooo long and considering Orochi light attack speed itís very bad. Stamina recovery doesnít start until stun animation finishes and itís quite long animation.

MumfordDaHound
06-05-2018, 12:54 AM
I suggest dumping all the AOE feat 4 crap. OR at least have diminishing returns.. So if you are on the edge of the circle it does like 10 dmg and the middle does like 50. The AOE feats have ruined so many good fights coming down to the end. Worst thing in the game by far and I played orochi most of season 5 along with Valk... This is a fighting game and the most exciting parts of the game is when its a few ppl left and then BAM its over in some stupid AOE" get out of jail free" card.

DakaDakaTimmy
06-05-2018, 12:58 AM
I was genuinely concerned by Stefans response to feats in the last warriors den, in particular he was quite happy for lawbringer to have 8 thousand bombs because... balance.
That opinion is incredibly out of touch with the community who mostly want feats nerfed or at least disabled while breaking etc. I donít hold out much hope for feat balancing if the Devs themselves arenít concerned.

MumfordDaHound
06-05-2018, 01:05 AM
DakaDaka,, I agree they seem tone deaf to what ppl want, when it comes to feats anyway. No idea why they seem to like them. Completely ruins good matches all the time. Also, someone mentioned the multiple traps thing, which is another BS deal. 1 trap at a time....

KotoKuraken
06-05-2018, 06:27 AM
Playing Orochi in Dominion, I've noticed I can spam this way too often. It seems like I'm able to use it in an anti-gank, take out the opponents while they're blinded with the lights, finish them off with a Riptide or OOS punish, and by the time I go to the next group of opponents, it's already recharged

DrinkinMyStella
06-05-2018, 09:56 AM
it needs to be like the 3rd feat or bring down its recovery time or increase its regain speed.

KitingFatKidsEZ
06-05-2018, 11:28 AM
Hey The_B0G_!

Thank you for reaching out and sharing your feedback here. I have recently seen a thread mentioning this same feedback, so, I will be sure to get these threads into my report to send to the team.

Eyyyy Ubisoft, Knight player here

i heard the samurai have one good feat on one character, plx delete kkthxbai!

Seriously tho, Kai is good but its NOWHERE NEAR the power level of fiat lux EVEN IF you consider Kai is tier 1 and Fiat Lux is tier 2, so how about we DELETE THAT ****! (seriously its not even in the same ****ing universe, fiat lux is literally INSANE!)
I tried to sound like a meme. Does that make it more likely it will actually happen?

And jesus **** traps are GARBAGE compared to bombs. Anyone with a tiny amount of intelligence can avoid that ****.

ChampionRuby50g
06-05-2018, 12:35 PM
Eyyyy Ubisoft, Knight player here

i heard the samurai have one good feat on one character, plx delete kkthxbai!

Seriously tho, Kai is good but its NOWHERE NEAR the power level of fiat lux EVEN IF you consider Kai is tier 1 and Fiat Lux is tier 2, so how about we DELETE THAT ****! (seriously its not even in the same ****ing universe, fiat lux is literally INSANE!)
I tried to sound like a meme. Does that make it more likely it will actually happen?

And jesus **** traps are GARBAGE compared to bombs. Anyone with a tiny amount of intelligence can avoid that ****.

I really disagree. For a level one, it is so much more effective than fiat lux in PVP. Fiat lux has a really distinctive throwing animation, as well as a small timer before detonating which gives the player plenty of time to take evasive action. Kai on the other hand is basically instant, has the same effects, and doesnít blind the player. Admittedly, Fiat Lux does do damage (25) and can clear the minions at B, but thatís all itís realy good for. For a level 2 feat, Iíd say that is fairly balanced. Kai is 100% overtuned for a level 1 feat. Moving it up to level 2 is a good move, or at least make it possible to counter or react too.

KitingFatKidsEZ
06-05-2018, 12:55 PM
Fiat Lux does clear the minions at B, but that’s all it’s realy good for.
If it would only do that and NOTHING else it would still be OP af on half the maps.
But its not, its that AND a free heavy AND oos AND stun AND long range AND a big AoE AND low cooldown

The other reason its insanely good is because you can set up your OTHER bombs with it and guarantee they hit since you cant roll when out of stam.
Now you could use Kiai to do the same thing and... ohh wait, right its on a ****ing samurai ...

No no no, Kiai is quite good, it gives you a few seconds of free PRESSURE(not even guaranteed damage) or just buys time. But it does pretty much nothing else (which is still really good but nowhere near fiat lux).

ChampionRuby50g
06-05-2018, 01:19 PM
If it would only do that and NOTHING else it would still be OP af on half the maps.
But its not, its that AND a free heavy AND oos AND stun AND long range AND a big AoE AND low cooldown

The other reason its insanely good is because you can set up your OTHER bombs with it and guarantee they hit since you cant roll when out of stam.
Now you could use Kiai to do the same thing and... ohh wait, right its on a ****ing samurai ...

No no no, Kiai is quite good, it gives you a few seconds of free PRESSURE(not even guaranteed damage) or just buys time. But it does pretty much nothing else (which is still really good but nowhere near fiat lux).

If your getting hit by a heavy every time your stunned by Fiat Lux, youíre doing something wrong on your end. Kai is also OOS, also short cooldown, also stun which would also set up an AOE feat if the team is coordinating it, or just smart. Itís happened to me before, one Orochi would just run in and use that feat and the LB behind them would throw bombs for confirmed damage. But that is a problem with bombs been too strong, not the feat itself. Good teamwork like that should be rewarded, but not to the extent it is now with those bomb feats doing way to much damage flat stick.

So really, the only things itís lacking in comparison is the range and 25 damage, with minion clearing. Itís still a very strong, too strong, Tier 1 feat. Fiat lux doesnít confirm any damage besides the damage it deals unless you have certain other feats. Which like I said, is a feat issue at whole, not just on the one feat.

But what would make it OP on only half the maps? Why would it be less effective at clearing minions on one map compared to the other?

KitingFatKidsEZ
06-05-2018, 01:41 PM
If your getting hit by a heavy every time your stunned by Fiat Lux,

I implied that fiat lux itself is the heavy.

If u cant figure out why its better on some maps than others to have a long range aoe clear right now i hope you can just think about it and figure it out yourself.

All that needed to be said has been said. Its clear we disagree which one is better.

Specialkha
06-05-2018, 01:47 PM
Kiai is too strong for a T1 feat. But before, orochi was not played that much, so it was less an issue than now.

Fiat Lux is also too strong. It can clear minions lane from range. On some map, you can launch it from point A or C. Completely OP, especially if you have several knight hero in your team.

But honestly, why do we complain? if there is any changes, it will happen in 6/9/12 months or even more. The parry fix took them one ****ing year to do. Pk nerf tooks them the same time to achieve. We had to wait 2 months at release for the first balance patch (and it buffed the PK at the time, mind you).

The balance process is far too slow, especially if you take into account we are not talking about a small company. Especially when the fix have been proposed by the community months ago and any intern could put them into the game in 1 week of work.

The_B0G_
06-05-2018, 02:52 PM
Eyyyy Ubisoft, Knight player here

i heard the samurai have one good feat on one character, plx delete kkthxbai!

Seriously tho, Kai is good but its NOWHERE NEAR the power level of fiat lux EVEN IF you consider Kai is tier 1 and Fiat Lux is tier 2, so how about we DELETE THAT ****! (seriously its not even in the same ****ing universe, fiat lux is literally INSANE!)
I tried to sound like a meme. Does that make it more likely it will actually happen?

And jesus **** traps are GARBAGE compared to bombs. Anyone with a tiny amount of intelligence can avoid that ****.

You have people in this thread that use Orochi and this feat saying it is OP, the lux grenade has to be aimed, and can not be used in the middle of an exchange of attacks between two players, and if it somehow is, both players get the full effects.

I'll play against an Orochi in a Dom match and every single time I fight him he uses this feat, I was using warlord the other day and did a dash forward heavy where you leap in the air and have Hyper armor, he used Kai right before I hit him, and it puts me back on my feet, dazed, and OOS, how can you argue this isn't OP for a first level feat?

I understand you don't want it gone because it's really good, you kill a few minions or boost a zone for a minute and you have this get out of jail free card for the rest of the match, but lets be fair; it's by far the most powerful 1st level feat in the game, more powerful than all the 2nd level feats too IMO.

Try to look at this unbiased.

Erhanninja
06-05-2018, 06:08 PM
Like mentioned another big problem it interrupts any attack. Basically every orochi does Kai into Gb knock you over and 2 heavy boom free.

BTTrinity
06-05-2018, 07:23 PM
I was genuinely concerned by Stefans response to feats in the last warriors den, in particular he was quite happy for lawbringer to have 8 thousand bombs because... balance.
That opinion is incredibly out of touch with the community who mostly want feats nerfed or at least disabled while breaking etc. I donít hold out much hope for feat balancing if the Devs themselves arenít concerned.

Im just glad we got an answer for it finally and I'm pretty satisfied with what I heard tbh, probably wont happen this season but they do have a close eye on them and are thinking long term ideas.

ReignQ2O
06-06-2018, 05:21 AM
Kiah is the only thing that stops Orochi from getting destroyed by the Unblockable, Spin/Spam to win is Dominion. Leave it alone. Its the closest thing Roach has to an opener or Anti Gank. You want them to take that too eh?

Leave it be. Its not like he can do much else. Revenge doesnt even work half the time when you get it. No matter what build you use. Take this away or making it less effective means Roach wont get used in 4v4. What the point?

ChampionRuby50g
06-06-2018, 07:10 AM
Kiah is the only thing that stops Orochi from getting destroyed by the Unblockable, Spin/Spam to win is Dominion. Leave it alone. Its the closest thing Roach has to an opener or Anti Gank. You want them to take that too eh?

Leave it be. Its not like he can do much else. Revenge doesnt even work half the time when you get it. No matter what build you use. Take this away or making it less effective means Roach wont get used in 4v4. What the point?

Now thatís just plain silly to think something like that. You really think Orochi is A-Tier because of one tier one feat? Lol itís strong but not that strong.

ChampionRuby50g
06-06-2018, 07:17 AM
If u cant figure out why its better on some maps than others to have a long range aoe clear right now i hope you can just think about it and figure it out yourself.
.

How do you imply that at all? You literally stated ďfree heavyĒ. Heavy attacks generally do a more damage than 25, why wouldnít you just say free damage and be a lot more clear? Even in saying that, itís not free because it is possible to avoid if you are paying attention.

Every map has minions. Every map has a spot where you can aim Fiat lux and throw it from a distance to those minions, itís just a matter of distance to B. Itís all the same dude, across every map you can clear B with it. I donít see your point about it been more ďOPĒ on other maps. Why donít you list those maps itís OP on. Thatís just like saying Catapult is stronger on Citadel gate than the Shard. It just doesnít work.

The_B0G_
06-06-2018, 02:54 PM
Kiah is the only thing that stops Orochi from getting destroyed by the Unblockable, Spin/Spam to win is Dominion. Leave it alone. Its the closest thing Roach has to an opener or Anti Gank. You want them to take that too eh?

Leave it be. Its not like he can do much else. Revenge doesnt even work half the time when you get it. No matter what build you use. Take this away or making it less effective means Roach wont get used in 4v4. What the point?

If it was used as an anti gank or to combat against unnlockable spam then I would agree with you, but every Orochi uses it as an offensive tool to help overwhelm his opponents that much more with his fast attacks.

I can imagine that you would feel differently if they were to give this feat to all other classes, no one would use any other 1st level feat.

If you think this feat is that important to make Orochi a viable choice to play in 4v4, then that proves my point in how overpowered it is. He has enough mix ups and fast attacks to be very good, he doesn't need a instant stun/interrupt/oos all in one for a first feat with a fast recharge.

He can keep it for a level 2 or 3 feat, it's obviously too powerful for feat 1 slot. If it stays there its should lose it's OOS property IMO.

BTTrinity
06-06-2018, 03:46 PM
If it was used as an anti gank or to combat against unnlockable spam then I would agree with you, but every Orochi uses it as an offensive tool to help overwhelm his opponents that much more with his fast attacks.

Pretty much, this. The other day, I ran into 4 180 GS Orochi's on the Shard who were using this ability and were ALWAYS GROUPED UP at ALL TIMES... Safe to say, I never had stamina every time I ran into them

ReignQ2O
06-06-2018, 05:42 PM
I know what I use it for. If they have the advantage. Or if they turtle, I have played this game since March of 2017. I use it to OOS punish. I mix a Top heavy with a light, GB , Throw. Heavy. GG... Lights are great but I've used this as an invaluable tool for Months without fast lights. Timing is everything. Yet you're all wanting it nerfed... Really?

Cont...

1. It does not work every time. You can be hit stunned out of it. You need distance to use it.

2. Just because something is effective does not mean its OP. I personally think self-healing outside of zones, is OP. Yet Orochi cant do it. Every now and again. He can take your breath away. Some of you hate losing your advantage so you seek to minimize his.

*I use it in solo and 2v1s if they corner me. Defensively. To advance poistion. I dont roll with other Orochi, they typical join my battles just to keep their count high. I'd rather capture points and find you 1v1 and take you out. If what you suggest were added I'd have to choose between it and revenge attacks, with nothing added to 1 tier. No thanks.

The_B0G_
06-06-2018, 05:55 PM
I know what I use it for. If they have the advantage. Or if they turtle, I have played this game since March of 2017. I use it to OOS punish. I mix a Top heavy with a light, GB , Throw. Heavy. GG... Lights are great but I've used this as an invaluable tool for Months without fast lights. Timing is everything. Yet you're all wanting it nerfed... Really?

Now we want it nerfed because Orochi is no longer weak, with his rework he doesn't need such a powerful feat for first level.

You can basically use it every 1 or 2 fights, it's pretty much like having instant revenge, at any time at all in the fight, boom, momentum change and now we have to hold off 20+ seconds of intense light spam and GB's while being OOS and dazed. You can't honestly think that is a fair first level feat.

Vakris_One
06-06-2018, 05:56 PM
I know what I use it for. If they have the advantage. Or if they turtle, I have played this game since March of 2017. I use it to OOS punish. I mix a Top heavy with a light, GB , Throw. Heavy. GG... Lights are great but I've used this as an invaluable tool for Months without fast lights. Timing is everything. Yet you're all wanting it nerfed... Really?
If it gets moved to tier 2 or 3 it just means you have to conserve it for certain occassions rather than spam it in every second encounter thereby crutching on the power of a single feat the entire match. That's all people seem to want, for it to have a longer cooldown. It's fair enough for such a powerful feat.

The_B0G_
06-06-2018, 06:00 PM
I know what I use it for. If they have the advantage. Or if they turtle, I have played this game since March of 2017. I use it to OOS punish. I mix a Top heavy with a light, GB , Throw. Heavy. GG... Lights are great but I've used this as an invaluable tool for Months without fast lights. Timing is everything. Yet you're all wanting it nerfed... Really?

Cont...

1. It does not work every time. You can be hit stunned out of it. You need distance to use it.

2. Just because something is effective does not mean its OP. I personally think self-healing outside of zones, is OP. Yet Orochi cant do it. Every now and again. He can take your breath away. Some of you hate losing your advantage so you seek to minimize his.

*I use it in solo and 2v1s if they corner me. Defensively. To advance poistion. I dont roll with other Orochi, they typical join my battles just to keep their count high. I'd rather capture points and find you 1v1 and take you out. If what you suggest were added I'd have to choose between it and revenge attacks, with nothing added to 1 tier. No thanks.

1. He needs barely any room/time to use it, so this isn't true.

2. Healing out of zones is a level 3 perk. Body count basically just allows you to kill minions and not lose health when doing it, no one kills minions to get their health back, it takes too long and will probably get you killed. Also "every now and again" is nearly every single fight.

E1seNw0Lf
06-06-2018, 08:53 PM
Anyone else agree?

I agree to the point that feats have to be checked in general.


Hey The_B0G_!

Thank you for reaching out and sharing your feedback here. I have recently seen a thread mentioning this same feedback, so, I will be sure to get these threads into my report to send to the team.

It's more about re-evaluating ALL feats. Kiai is just a very very small example, compared to others.
Report that (and this (https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1878448-F****-Sh**-FEATS-!?p=13481903&viewfull=1#post13481903)) to the team. :annoyed-as-hell:

ReignQ2O
06-07-2018, 01:27 AM
1. He needs barely any room/time to use it, so this isn't true.

2. Healing out of zones is a level 3 perk. Body count basically just allows you to kill minions and not lose health when doing it, no one kills minions to get their health back, it takes too long and will probably get you killed. Also "every now and again" is nearly every single fight.

I have been hit out of the Kiai enough to lnow you need the opponent to be in neutral or use it before the strike to pull off.

You cannot use it nearly as often as you make it sound. Especially factoring in in deaths and respawn time with the cool down. More importantly, its one of the 2 useful 1st tier feats for Orochi. Who actually uses the Iron Lungs???

As I stated before, no one has offered anything in way of calling for a nerf or to make it harder to use as often. If no one can suggest a level 1 feat to replace it, it should be left alone.

DakaDakaTimmy
06-07-2018, 01:40 AM
I have been hit out of the Kiai enough to lnow you need the opponent to be in neutral or use it before the strike to pull off.

You cannot use it nearly as often as you make it sound. Especially factoring in in deaths and respawn time with the cool down. More importantly, its one of the 2 useful 1st tier feats for Orochi. Who actually uses the Iron Lungs???

As I stated before, no one has offered anything in way of calling for a nerf or to make it harder to use as often. If no one can suggest a level 1 feat to replace it, it should be left alone.

I canít think of another tier 1 feat as powerful as this now?
Orochi can instantly have you oos and under huge pressure from him or a team mate in every single fight since the timer is so fast.
Alternatives like Ďiron lungsí is a moot point - nobody uses this on ANY hero.
Itís by no means the best feat in the game but for a tier 1, itís probably a bit much.

The_B0G_
06-07-2018, 03:38 AM
I have been hit out of the Kiai enough to lnow you need the opponent to be in neutral or use it before the strike to pull off.

You cannot use it nearly as often as you make it sound. Especially factoring in in deaths and respawn time with the cool down. More importantly, its one of the 2 useful 1st tier feats for Orochi. Who actually uses the Iron Lungs???

As I stated before, no one has offered anything in way of calling for a nerf or to make it harder to use as often. If no one can suggest a level 1 feat to replace it, it should be left alone.

Well you can't slip it in in the middle of a light attack chain but pretty much anything else you can get one off. Dodge one attack, boom, opponent uses heavy, boom, parry or deflect, boom. Pretty easy to get them off man, don't try to make that case.

Most heroes don't even have a useful first perk at all. Not Kai useful, thats for certain.

There has been multiple suggestions to fix it, you just didn't read any of them.

Alustar.exe
06-07-2018, 04:03 AM
I have been hit out of the Kiai enough to lnow you need the opponent to be in neutral or use it before the strike to pull off.

You cannot use it nearly as often as you make it sound. Especially factoring in in deaths and respawn time with the cool down. More importantly, its one of the 2 useful 1st tier feats for Orochi. Who actually uses the Iron Lungs???

As I stated before, no one has offered anything in way of calling for a nerf or to make it harder to use as often. If no one can suggest a level 1 feat to replace it, it should be left alone.

I've been about to hit an orochi with a light attack and not even been the one he was focusing, coming from behind him and still been hit by it. Not to mention this particular orochi was able to use it roughly every 30s. I know this because after every respawn in a tribute he was able to use it. Could that with the fact that all this particular player was doing was repeated 3 light chain and yeah, that is just ridiculous. That feat needs to get toned down.
If not I will personally pick up orochi and abuse this like every other player running this class till it gets nerfed. It's bad enough his light chain is more annoying than peacekeepers ever was.

Specialkha
06-07-2018, 11:59 AM
I have been hit out of the Kiai enough to lnow you need the opponent to be in neutral or use it before the strike to pull off.

You cannot use it nearly as often as you make it sound. Especially factoring in in deaths and respawn time with the cool down. More importantly, its one of the 2 useful 1st tier feats for Orochi. Who actually uses the Iron Lungs???

As I stated before, no one has offered anything in way of calling for a nerf or to make it harder to use as often. If no one can suggest a level 1 feat to replace it, it should be left alone.

You are totally biaised.

Kiai is the most powerful T1 feat hands down. It shoud be nerf or moved up to t2 or t3.

Ofc, Feats overall should be redesigned, but it won't happen.

BadBOO17
06-08-2018, 07:32 AM
Eyyyy Ubisoft, Knight player here

i heard the samurai have one good feat on one character, plx delete kkthxbai!

Seriously tho, Kai is good but its NOWHERE NEAR the power level of fiat lux EVEN IF you consider Kai is tier 1 and Fiat Lux is tier 2, so how about we DELETE THAT ****! (seriously its not even in the same ****ing universe, fiat lux is literally INSANE!)
I tried to sound like a meme. Does that make it more likely it will actually happen?

And jesus **** traps are GARBAGE compared to bombs. Anyone with a tiny amount of intelligence can avoid that ****.
Oh shut up weeb. Samurai have plenty of good feats. Every faction has its bs including your weebs

BTTrinity
06-08-2018, 04:46 PM
Oh shut up weeb. Samurai have plenty of good feats. Every faction has its bs including your weebs

They have good feats, until they run into 4 knights fully feated toward bombs/cata then their feats cant even hope to compare.

Erhanninja
06-11-2018, 01:39 AM
Oh shut up weeb. Samurai have plenty of good feats. Every faction has its bs including your weebs

I think you are the first person to say Samurai has good feats. Arrow storm is as useless as t gets everybody can avoid it even if got hit. On the other hand even if my toes in that catapult range I die for sure.

Anyway. This **** has to get nerfed. Its absolutely ridiculous. Its game changer. Its instant and interrupts everybody in the range. I fight an orochi and about to win he pops Kai Iím dead. I respawn and he uses Kai again straight away. We have numbers he uses Kai we are at disadvantage whole team. This Is bloody tier one feat. No stamina everything turns white canít see **** against light attack spam and this is every 30 seconds. Nice job!