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View Full Version : To Anyone Saying Kensei has i-Frames During Swift Strike



Vakris_One
06-03-2018, 10:41 PM
I present to you these two videos:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DcfhGJxIeA&feature=youtu.be


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_RjQp6rUk0&feature=youtu.be

After watching both clips please try to tell me again how Kensei gets magical invulnerability frames during his swift strike dodge attack.

Arekonator
06-03-2018, 11:03 PM
No, you will get video of people missplaying on orochi and then unrelated issue on shinobi, accompanied by cries for kensei nerf.

RenegadeTX2000
06-04-2018, 01:21 AM
any character ever dodging that late will be hit out of anything they attempt to do. The dodge you committed to was activated waaay too late. and both videos only show you try and dodge last minute in the opposite direction of the move being thrown.

Anybody would be hit in that scenario.

That is literally the only time I can hit Kensei with my unblockable as Highlander. They dodge as late as you did, never mind the terrible direction you decided to dodge in...


0/10. Bad decision making all around. I recommend more training. =-0

KotoKuraken
06-04-2018, 01:28 AM
You were still starting up that dodge attack. You got hit in the startup, which is when the attack wasn't even in place. If you notice in your slow-mo there, your sword hadn't even descended into attack yet.

He still has a dodge attack that dodges out of basically every attack when it starts up and has a very wide window to dodge incoming attacks

Siegfried-Z
06-04-2018, 01:28 AM
any character ever dodging that late will be hit out of anything they attempt to do. The dodge you committed to was activated waaay too late. and both videos only show you try and dodge last minute in the opposite direction of the move being thrown.

Anybody would be hit in that scenario.

That is literally the only time I can hit Kensei with my unblockable as Highlander. They dodge as late as you did, never mind the terrible direction you decided to dodge in...


0/10. Bad decision making all around. I recommend more training. =-0

First, you're wrong, in the first video he dodge on the same side than the attack.

And, every messages you write you're so arrogant in.. try to speak noramlly with people maybe ?

PepsiBeastin
06-04-2018, 04:47 AM
I can't even tell if this a troll post or not, the attacks obviously haven't their i-frames yet... That's like saying Shinobi's kick doesn't have hyperarmor just because you can be hit out of a kick for the first 20% of it.

RenegadeTX2000
06-04-2018, 08:50 AM
First, you're wrong, in the first video he dodge on the same side than the attack.

And, every messages you write you're so arrogant in.. try to speak noramlly with people maybe ?

Mad? he dodged on same side then attacked... My bad didn't fully explain that scenario, I just blew this whole post off when I saw him utilizing the move wrong...

You aren't supposed to ever use kensei's dodge attack immediately. You always delay it and react to what the opponent gives you...

If he delayed the attack on the first video the scenario wouldn't have ever gone down like that for he would have blocked...

When someone rushes to put videos out to show why a certain move is fine and failing at that, my response is usually in the same quality.

KitingFatKidsEZ
06-04-2018, 09:11 AM
The startup on Kenseis dodge attack IS slower than others though. Try dodge attacking out of warden shoulder vortex if he releases immediately (2nd shoulder in chain after side DL). You will still get hit while the assassins cover both shoulder and grab with dodge attack.

On other note:
It clearly shows that it doesnt have unlimited iframes all the time unbeatable herpderp which was the whole point. The raider one in particular is just a super late hit.

Vakris_One
06-04-2018, 12:09 PM
any character ever dodging that late will be hit out of anything they attempt to do. The dodge you committed to was activated waaay too late. and both videos only show you try and dodge last minute in the opposite direction of the move being thrown.

Anybody would be hit in that scenario.

That is literally the only time I can hit Kensei with my unblockable as Highlander. They dodge as late as you did, never mind the terrible direction you decided to dodge in...


0/10. Bad decision making all around. I recommend more training. =-0
Nope. On the Raider I did do the dodge attack too late and was expecting to get caught but with the Conq I did it well in time and still got caught, that one actually surprised me.

But certain people on this forum frequently cry that Kensei is invulnerable during his dodge strike and that swift strike is a guarranteed hit. That's who I am disputing. As for your comment about bad decision making; take a look at the Conq clip again. That dodge attack should have gotten him. I dodged sooner than he attacked yet he still got me. Trust me mate, I have 32 reps on Kensei. The Raider one was my mistake and I deserved to get hit but the Conq one... nah bro. That's the first time I've gotten caught right on the cusp of actually hittng the opponent with my blade. It makes for great footage to shut the crybabies down about Kensei i-frames though.


You were still starting up that dodge attack. You got hit in the startup, which is when the attack wasn't even in place. If you notice in your slow-mo there, your sword hadn't even descended into attack yet.

He still has a dodge attack that dodges out of basically every attack when it starts up and has a very wide window to dodge incoming attacks
Nope. Look at the Conq footage. I was just about to hit him. That's not during the startup, that's during the middle of swift strike. Look at the footage: my sword descends into attack and almost hits the Conq.


I can't even tell if this a troll post or not, the attacks obviously haven't their i-frames yet... That's like saying Shinobi's kick doesn't have hyperarmor just because you can be hit out of a kick for the first 20% of it.
Now this is just hilarious from you in particular Pepsi. So you can post clips of you playing Orochi badly and Shinobi bugs and somehow blame it on Kensei via theory crafting but my clips proving you wrong are a troll post.... just lol.

Okay. If you refuse to admit that you were wrong all this time when you plundered on saying "Kensei gets i-frames! He can't be interrupted out of swift strike!" then I will stop taking you seriously at all from now on. I mean you have literally said these things and you have the gall to deny the evidence in my clips that disprove your claims. Okay then my dude... lol.


Mad? he dodged on same side then attacked... My bad didn't fully explain that scenario, I just blew this whole post off when I saw him utilizing the move wrong...
Try again mate. I dodged towards the Conq but got caught. I dodged away from the Raider and got caught. Two different sides unless you're blind or didn't actually watch both clips. If Kensei had these legendary i-frames then at least the Conq would not have caught me because I was well into the attack animation on that one.



You aren't supposed to ever use kensei's dodge attack immediately. You always delay it and react to what the opponent gives you...
Not when you know that he will throw out his attack and you're in a gank situation. If you wait in that scenario you'll get grabbed or hit during your dodge if you're in a crowded gank situation. "You aren't even supposed to use blah blah..." Lol no. Just no dude. You use whatever attack is suitable for the situation and try to surprise the opponent. If you create a pattern you're as good as dead. If he's letting his attacks rip and I see it why would I delay my swift strike?

My examples here are not to prove how "git gud" I am so I have no idea why you're trying to come in like some fight expert. They're here to disprove the bullsh/t i-frames theory that every crybaby and their mother band wagons on.



If he delayed the attack on the first video the scenario wouldn't have ever gone down like that for he would have blocked...

When someone rushes to put videos out to show why a certain move is fine and failing at that, my response is usually in the same quality.
My dude, feel free to make a counter clip video showing that Kensei gets i-frames without it actually just being a lame a$$ clip of Kensei correctly dodging attacks. You know, actual video evidence of a weapon phasing straight through Kensei as he hits you. Not one where he dodges away from it. No one, not one single soul, has yet to make this type of video showing these mythical i-frames. I just made two showing there are no i-frames during the actual attack animation, which certain people on here have been wrongfully claiming was a thing.

Vakris_One
06-04-2018, 12:18 PM
The startup on Kenseis dodge attack IS slower than others though. Try dodge attacking out of warden shoulder vortex if he releases immediately (2nd shoulder in chain after side DL). You will still get hit while the assassins cover both shoulder and grab with dodge attack.

On other note:
It clearly shows that it doesnt have unlimited iframes all the time unbeatable herpderp which was the whole point. The raider one in particular is just a super late hit.
"It clearly shows that it doesnt have unlimited iframes all the time unbeatable herpderp which was the whole point."
^ Thank you. This guy gets it.

The Raider one I added just to cover both scenarios of Kensei being hit out of his swift strike at the startup just in case someone tries to claim that "but... but... he's invincible at the startup.". The Conq clip is the one that truly disproves this "unbeatable i-frames" nonsense talk.

SpaceJim12
06-04-2018, 02:36 PM
The problem here is not iframe. The problem in way how a lot kenseis play now. New turtle, based on dodges with attack. PK play this way, some Zerks and Shamans, a lot Glad (but I didn't see a lot of them now). Player wait you to attack, than use dodge attack. And while all assassins have only light with it, Kensei have heavy. On high gear score SS have huge dmg. Sure, you can counter it with feint, but with skilled guys it's worked once, than they will be prepared.
So it's not Kensei's dodge attack, it's issue with all dodge attacks in this game. But I doubt Ubi remove it. Turtle meta still in game (maybe not so profit, but my LB could disagree with it) and new dodge meta getting stronger. That's all.
And as with lightspam, Highlander counter it all. =D

BTTrinity
06-04-2018, 05:02 PM
To me, it looked like the Swift Strike vs Conq was a bit late (With 10 reps on Kensei, I can say that confidently)

Anyway, most dodge attacks work like this and you can be hit out of the startup.... If you were to just use a dodge, and delayed the dodge attack on Conq then probably would have worked... That delay is a HUGE help. (Before you say it isnt, its the ONLY dodge attack in the game that allows me to react to highlanders 50/50 decision.... He throws kick, I dodge and if I see a glowing hand I use the delayed dodge attack to also dodge the grab. it works, more often than not)

The dodge property does give i-frames, but that isnt exclusive to Kensei... this whole thing about him having i-frames is just stupid. Anyone that dodges correctly has i-frames ffs

You can even utilize i-frames in Nobushi's dodge attacks. (To a very small extent)

Knight_Raime
06-04-2018, 05:09 PM
Maybe i'm misunderstanding the post. But I think Vakris was simply trying to show that kensei doesn't have I frames from start to finish of kensei's dodge attack. I don't think he was arguing that Kensei doesn't have any I frames during the attack.

On a side note i'd actually like it if someone from the competitive community could do testing to see if I frames do exist on dodges/dodge attacks. It's something i've never really been sure on. In all my memory it just seemed like people actually dodged the hit.

PepsiBeastin
06-04-2018, 05:19 PM
Maybe i'm misunderstanding the post. But I think Vakris was simply trying to show that kensei doesn't have I frames from start to finish of kensei's dodge attack. I don't think he was arguing that Kensei doesn't have any I frames during the attack.

On a side note i'd actually like it if someone from the competitive community could do testing to see if I frames do exist on dodges/dodge attacks. It's something i've never really been sure on. In all my memory it just seemed like people actually dodged the hit.

When I get home this afternoon I'll test it with a bot and record it, starting attacks at different timings after swift strike starts.

BTTrinity
06-04-2018, 06:11 PM
When I get home this afternoon I'll test it with a bot and record it, starting attacks at different timings after swift strike starts.

I dont know exactly what you're trying to prove....

Theres a startup portion of the dodge attack that can be interrupted if misused, if Vakris would have just dodge it would have worked because he went through the startup of the dodge WELL BEFORE conq's light hit him but because he used swift strike the second he dodged, he went back into a startup animation for swift strike allowing himself to be hit.

Funny thing is, I bet PK and Shinobi both could have taken that attack on with their dodge attacks and come out successful, using them at the same time Vakris did his dodge attack... So you could argue, the faster the dodge attack, the better :P but really its all situational.

I can dodge a PK zone attack with PK's dodge attack, but I cant with Kensei.

I can dodge highlanders full 50/50 with kensei's dodge attack, but I cant with PK's

So, if they take away its ability to be delayed... Its like every other dodge attack but slower, and more hard hitting.

Vakris_One
06-04-2018, 07:01 PM
To me, it looked like the Swift Strike vs Conq was a bit late (With 10 reps on Kensei, I can say that confidently).
You're not wrong, it was just that tad bit late and got caught by his heavy. The point of the clip is that Kensei can get caught in swift strike just like any other dodge attack. Some people on here like to spread misinformation that Kensei is practically invulnerable while in swift strike and it is therefore a "guarranteed attack". I made these clips to disprove those particular tin foil hat conspiracy theories once and for all.



Anyway, most dodge attacks work like this and you can be hit out of the startup.... If you were to just use a dodge, and delayed the dodge attack on Conq then probably would have worked... That delay is a HUGE help. (Before you say it isnt, its the ONLY dodge attack in the game that allows me to react to highlanders 50/50 decision.... He throws kick, I dodge and if I see a glowing hand I use the delayed dodge attack to also dodge the grab. it works, more often than not)
Although Kensei's delay helps any dodge attack (except PK and Nobushi's) can disrupt Highlander out of caber toss just on reaction of the kick. He doesn't catch them fast enough before they hit him.



The dodge property does give i-frames, but that isnt exclusive to Kensei... this whole thing about him having i-frames is just stupid. Anyone that dodges correctly has i-frames ffs

You can even utilize i-frames in Nobushi's dodge attacks. (To a very small extent)
Yep. Even Shugo gets i-frames during a dodge, that's the whole mechanic of dodging in this game. Some people just don't understand this or don't want to admit it and try to spread misinformation instead.


Maybe i'm misunderstanding the post. But I think Vakris was simply trying to show that kensei doesn't have I frames from start to finish of kensei's dodge attack. I don't think he was arguing that Kensei doesn't have any I frames during the attack.

On a side note i'd actually like it if someone from the competitive community could do testing to see if I frames do exist on dodges/dodge attacks. It's something i've never really been sure on. In all my memory it just seemed like people actually dodged the hit.
You got it. And I too have never seen attacks phase through someone who is in the process of an attack animation - that's why it always bemuses me when people complain that they missed someone during their dodge. Only lag would create a situation where weapons physically phase through an attack animation but lag is not an intended gameplay parameter.


When I get home this afternoon I'll test it with a bot and record it, starting attacks at different timings after swift strike starts.
As BTTrinity said, I don't see what point you'd be trying to make. I already proved to you that Kensei can get whacked during swift strike, which is something you've already claimed is impossible to do.


I dont know exactly what you're trying to prove....

Theres a startup portion of the dodge attack that can be interrupted if misused, if Vakris would have just dodge it would have worked because he went through the startup of the dodge WELL BEFORE conq's light hit him but because he used swift strike the second he dodged, he went back into a startup animation for swift strike allowing himself to be hit.

Funny thing is, I bet PK and Shinobi both could have taken that attack on with their dodge attacks and come out successful, using them at the same time Vakris did his dodge attack... So you could argue, the faster the dodge attack, the better :P but really its all situational.

I can dodge a PK zone attack with PK's dodge attack, but I cant with Kensei.

I can dodge highlanders full 50/50 with kensei's dodge attack, but I cant with PK's

So, if they take away its ability to be delayed... Its like every other dodge attack but slower, and more hard hitting.
Good point. A faster dodge attack like Oro or Shaman might actually have snuck in before the Conq's hit. Re: hard hitting, Kensei's swift strike is 20 damage which is the same as Shaman's much faster dodge attack.

BTTrinity
06-04-2018, 07:32 PM
Although Kensei's delay helps any dodge attack (except PK and Nobushi's) can disrupt Highlander out of caber toss just on reaction of the kick. He doesn't catch them fast enough before they hit him.

I've never actually tried using Nobu's dodge attacks on his 50/50, I always just vipers retreat it lol but if I can land a sidewinder on that, id definitely rather do that then... Especially if hes already bleeding, make that Thighlander a Crylander


Good point. A faster dodge attack like Oro or Shaman might actually have snuck in before the Conq's hit. Re: hard hitting, Kensei's swift strike is 20 damage which is the same as Shaman's much faster dodge attack.

O right lol, I thought it was 25.

"So, if they take away its ability to be delayed... Its like every other dodge attack but slower," but can execute

HazelrahFirefly
06-04-2018, 07:53 PM
I hope, Vakris, that you never thought I meant that he has iframes from the moment he dodges, 100% of the time. It's only during the attack, and I dont like that. The sword will still be coming towards me, my light attack will strike the Kensei's physical body first, but nothing will happen.

I dont like iframes. They feel necessary in a Souls game, but in FH I wish you had to block, parry, deflect, or actually dodge.



For the record, the dodge attack attempt against the Conq was def too late. The raider was purely bad luck.

BTTrinity
06-04-2018, 09:21 PM
I hope, Vakris, that you never thought I meant that he has iframes from the moment he dodges, 100% of the time. It's only during the attack, and I dont like that. The sword will still be coming towards me, my light attack will strike the Kensei's physical body first, but nothing will happen.

I dont like iframes. They feel necessary in a Souls game, but in FH I wish you had to block, parry, deflect, or actually dodge.



For the record, the dodge attack attempt against the Conq was def too late. The raider was purely bad luck.

I think they're necessary for this game as well... Warden and Nobushi would be next to useless if there was no i-frames.... Some classes would need to be completely redesigned.

Vakris_One
06-04-2018, 10:21 PM
I hope, Vakris, that you never thought I meant that he has iframes from the moment he dodges, 100% of the time. It's only during the attack, and I dont like that. The sword will still be coming towards me, my light attack will strike the Kensei's physical body first, but nothing will happen.

I dont like iframes. They feel necessary in a Souls game, but in FH I wish you had to block, parry, deflect, or actually dodge.



For the record, the dodge attack attempt against the Conq was def too late. The raider was purely bad luck.
I didn't aim this post at you so no worries. Everyone's opinion is fine by me, it's the crowd that purposefully spreads misinformation that I am taking on with this thread. Kensei doesn't get hyper armour on swift strike so if you hit him like that Conq did me then you'll stuff him out of it no matter how late. If he has already hit you then he gets it because your attack didn't connect with him in time even if the difference is only by a milisecond.

I think the only i-frames that are in this game are connected to dodges because that's kind of the only way to create a dodge mechanic in a 3D fighting game like this. Otherwise how else could we dodge attacks? I think it's fine to have i-frames on a correctly timed dodge.

HazelrahFirefly
06-04-2018, 10:54 PM
That's a 'to each their own' kinda topic, I suppose.

I would prefer it you had to physically dodge the attacks. It WOULD require changing much of the game, and I'm not even/ever stating it should happen. I just 'dun like it dang nabbit!

KotoKuraken
06-05-2018, 06:42 AM
yea I'm not buying it. Both vids he was close to--but did not--have his attack initiated. I'm looking at these frames, and he was still in the dodge animation but not the actual attack animation. He was caught in the transition to the attack animation.

And that's the problem people have with Kensei, is that the amount of i-frames he has when he's in attack animation is absolutely insane. You can delay it a crapton to dodge all the way around an opponent if you wanted to, and you can use it at pretty much the same time as any assassin and beat them at their own dodge attack. I think the only dodge move that can be used at the same time or earlier than a Kensei dodge attack and come out on top is the Orochi Riptide Strike, which I've used quite a lot against Kensei's without being punished for it, and I myself have gotten repeatedly punished by it while playing kensei.

tl;dr It's not the dodge animation people have a problem with. It's the sheer amount of i-frames Kensei has during the attack animation of his dodge attack that has such a long i-frame window that he can start up his dodge attack at the same time or slightly before another assassin's dodge attack, and still get out of damage scott-free

Knight_Raime
06-05-2018, 07:53 AM
yea I'm not buying it. Both vids he was close to--but did not--have his attack initiated. I'm looking at these frames, and he was still in the dodge animation but not the actual attack animation. He was caught in the transition to the attack animation.

And that's the problem people have with Kensei, is that the amount of i-frames he has when he's in attack animation is absolutely insane. You can delay it a crapton to dodge all the way around an opponent if you wanted to, and you can use it at pretty much the same time as any assassin and beat them at their own dodge attack. I think the only dodge move that can be used at the same time or earlier than a Kensei dodge attack and come out on top is the Orochi Riptide Strike, which I've used quite a lot against Kensei's without being punished for it, and I myself have gotten repeatedly punished by it while playing kensei.

tl;dr It's not the dodge animation people have a problem with. It's the sheer amount of i-frames Kensei has during the attack animation of his dodge attack that has such a long i-frame window that he can start up his dodge attack at the same time or slightly before another assassin's dodge attack, and still get out of damage scott-free

He was not in the dodge animation for either. In the conq video he was very clearly doing the swift strike animation. Vakris was struck during the vulnerability window of the attack here.
In the raider video the very frame before Vakris gets hit you can see him start up swift strike. Again being hit in the vulnerability window of the attack. Just a bit earlier compared to the first clip.

You can easily tell that he's out of the dodge animation completely because the superior block flash on his sword appears and then disappears. Meaning he's out of the dodge. The clips would imply that if the attack does have I frames it's not at the start of the attack. If I had to take a stab i'd say they're 200-300ms into the attack animation. I'm not convinced that dodge attacks have I frames. I think it's far more likely that the distance kensei's normal dodge takes him on top of his dodge attack is simply making him dodge attacks physically.

I've heard mention of I frames being on dodge attacks. But only when talking about kensei and orochi. But in both cases it's talked about that they delay their attack. meaning the actual dodge I frames are doing the dodging and not the attack it self (even if it did have I frames.) But i'd be more than willing to be wrong if someone provided video evidence.

KitingFatKidsEZ
06-05-2018, 11:34 AM
When I get home this afternoon I'll test it with a bot and record it, starting attacks at different timings after swift strike starts.

Theres literally no point in testing anything in for honor against the bots since the difference in speed against actual players vs bots is up to 20% (before lag! so realistically its like 30%+) because reasons.

DakaDakaTimmy
06-05-2018, 12:46 PM
‘Swift’ strike. This is the slowest dodge attack in the game, what’s swift about it exactly?

Vakris_One
06-05-2018, 02:38 PM
yea I'm not buying it. Both vids he was close to--but did not--have his attack initiated. I'm looking at these frames, and he was still in the dodge animation but not the actual attack animation. He was caught in the transition to the attack animation.

And that's the problem people have with Kensei, is that the amount of i-frames he has when he's in attack animation is absolutely insane. You can delay it a crapton to dodge all the way around an opponent if you wanted to, and you can use it at pretty much the same time as any assassin and beat them at their own dodge attack. I think the only dodge move that can be used at the same time or earlier than a Kensei dodge attack and come out on top is the Orochi Riptide Strike, which I've used quite a lot against Kensei's without being punished for it, and I myself have gotten repeatedly punished by it while playing kensei.

tl;dr It's not the dodge animation people have a problem with. It's the sheer amount of i-frames Kensei has during the attack animation of his dodge attack that has such a long i-frame window that he can start up his dodge attack at the same time or slightly before another assassin's dodge attack, and still get out of damage scott-free
I wasn't in the dodge animation for either. Look at the parts of both vids that I've slowed down. In the Conq one you can clearly see my Kensei moving his sword into the dodge strike and was almost to the middle of the animation when Conq hits me. The Raider stuffed me right at the startup of swift strike. In both cases the tell tale sign that I've started swift strike is my guard stance indicator changing to the side of the swift strike attack. If I was still in a dodge animation my guard stance would not have changed direction at all.

Both videos prove that Kensei can be whacked out of his dodge attack animation. The Raider did it right at the startup. The Conq did it towards the middle of the swift strike animation. This is solid proof that Kensei does not get invulnerability frames during his attack animation. If you still don't agree then feel free to make 2 seperate videos showing me clearly a weapon hit actually phasing through the Kensei during his swift strike animation. Otherwise your talk is just theory crafting to my factually documented evidence.

KotoKuraken
06-05-2018, 06:40 PM
Alright, I didn't find i-frames during the attack animation. However, I found something much scarier that proves how borked Kensei is.

It's the i-frames during his dodge, while his sword is lit. I thought it was the actual attack, but now this makes more sense as to why he just phases through everything. Now, normally, he's just supposed to have superior block if he's getting that in the same direction. But there's a problem. He can delay his attack soooooo long, that he can make full use of a crapload of i-frame dodge time, then attack after his opponent finishes all of their attack and come out scott-free.

In this one, I twice abuse the superior dodge of Kensei to dodge the sword that physically goes through my body
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/kotokuraken/video/45859453

In this one, at timestamp 36 seconds, an axe passes through my body, then I attack
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/kotokuraken/video/46189609#t=36

Essentially, you can just pass through a bunch of attacks while your sword is glowing and not take any damage

Vakris_One
06-05-2018, 09:19 PM
Alright, I didn't find i-frames during the attack animation. However, I found something much scarier that proves how borked Kensei is.

It's the i-frames during his dodge, while his sword is lit. I thought it was the actual attack, but now this makes more sense as to why he just phases through everything. Now, normally, he's just supposed to have superior block if he's getting that in the same direction. But there's a problem. He can delay his attack soooooo long, that he can make full use of a crapload of i-frame dodge time, then attack after his opponent finishes all of their attack and come out scott-free.

In this one, I twice abuse the superior dodge of Kensei to dodge the sword that physically goes through my body
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/kotokuraken/video/45859453

In this one, at timestamp 36 seconds, an axe passes through my body, then I attack
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/kotokuraken/video/46189609#t=36

Essentially, you can just pass through a bunch of attacks while your sword is glowing and not take any damage
That's called dodging. You dodged those attacks fair and square. You would still have dodged those attacks even if you didn't have a dodge attack to use as an immediate punish. Every character in the game can do that when they time their dodge correctly with the opponent's strike. That's the standardised i-frames that every dodge animation in the game gets.

KotoKuraken
06-05-2018, 09:33 PM
That's called dodging. You dodged those attacks fair and square. You would still have dodged those attacks even if you didn't have a dodge attack to use as an immediate punish. Every character in the game can do that when they time their dodge correctly with the opponent's strike. That's the standardised i-frames that every dodge animation in the game gets.

The problem with Kensei's is that he can use the full dodge, on top of also having a dodge attack to follow it up. With most other characters, you can either dodge, or dodge attack, but not both, or at least not to the absolute degree that Kensei can. Name another character that can wait so long on their dodge attack that they actually end up attacking the opponent's back

PepsiBeastin
06-05-2018, 09:37 PM
The problem with Kensei's is that he can use the full dodge, on top of also having a dodge attack to follow it up. With most other characters, you can either dodge, or dodge attack, but not both, or at least not to the absolute degree that Kensei can. Name another character that can wait so long on their dodge attack that they actually end up attacking the opponent's back

It's pretty much like a super cheap version of nobushi's hidden stance, if nobushi could use it mid-dodge without any repercussions. It protects you from all damage and nets you a free hit.

Arekonator
06-05-2018, 09:43 PM
Are we moving the goalposts here?

Vakris_One
06-05-2018, 11:52 PM
The problem with Kensei's is that he can use the full dodge, on top of also having a dodge attack to follow it up. With most other characters, you can either dodge, or dodge attack, but not both, or at least not to the absolute degree that Kensei can. Name another character that can wait so long on their dodge attack that they actually end up attacking the opponent's back
We already know he can delay his dodge attack so let's keep the conversation on topic, which is about i-frames. Kensei doesn't get any extra i-frames from delaying his swift strike because as I have proven he can be hit out of the entirety of his attack animation as soon as that animation starts. Kensei's dodge duration is the same as every other dodge duration in the game. He cannot extend it. The only thing unique to him is that he can delay the startup of his dodge attack until the last moment. But as you've already seen he gets no extra i-frames during the attack itself.

So to recap:
1) Kensei's dodge duration lasts just as long as every other character. No more and no less.

2) Every character gets the exact same amount of time spent under the protection of i-frames during their dodge.

3) Kensei gets no additional i-frames during any part of his dodge attack animation.

P.S. Here's 2 more videos I made just to showcase that swift strike gets absolutely no i-frames. Particularly interesting is the 2nd one where Highlander actually manages to land his Caber Toss on me just as my blade is touching his torso:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_GTNVz5UpU
Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_GTNVz5UpU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDtS3it6olg
Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDtS3it6olg

Basically these show that Kensei gets no extra leeway when he mis-times swift strike. He is as vulnerable as anyone else who mis-times a dodge attack. Period.


It's pretty much like a super cheap version of nobushi's hidden stance, if nobushi could use it mid-dodge without any repercussions. It protects you from all damage and nets you a free hit.
With all due respect this is hyperbole and fake news all in one. His dodge has the exact same i-frame duration as everyone else's dodge. Kensei cannot magically extend his dodge duration. He can only delay his dodge attack startup until the middle/end part of his dodge and as you have already witnessed his dodge attack does not give him any i-frames whatsoever.

To liken it to hidden stance is just so wrong it's patently ridiculous.

Armosias
06-06-2018, 12:01 PM
Alright, I didn't find i-frames during the attack animation. However, I found something much scarier that proves how borked Kensei is.

It's the i-frames during his dodge, while his sword is lit. I thought it was the actual attack, but now this makes more sense as to why he just phases through everything. Now, normally, he's just supposed to have superior block if he's getting that in the same direction. But there's a problem. He can delay his attack soooooo long, that he can make full use of a crapload of i-frame dodge time, then attack after his opponent finishes all of their attack and come out scott-free.

In this one, I twice abuse the superior dodge of Kensei to dodge the sword that physically goes through my body
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/kotokuraken/video/45859453

In this one, at timestamp 36 seconds, an axe passes through my body, then I attack
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/kotokuraken/video/46189609#t=36

Essentially, you can just pass through a bunch of attacks while your sword is glowing and not take any damage

First clip we can see dodge attack from the other kensei which appears to never leave prep phase according to your HUD, two shiny yellow proofs that there is lag AND you net a hit through a superior block, I won't use this as a reference for iframes.

Second clip is an actual dodge, that Shaman did not hit you plain and simple.

Nothing usefull in those clips please get something in arena mode.

Btw iframes should not exist in For Honor, change my mind.