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View Full Version : I think we need to give streamers a little less word of god status



CandleInTheDark
05-30-2018, 03:33 PM
Content creators and streamers have come to have quite a voice in the communities they create content for. I've seen it all over. This is a good thing, they put gameplay out there, the devs of that game can likely see things that might need touching up because of how they are used and it provides a collection of people and their views.

These are all good things but as with everything there is another side to this. Streamers and content creators rely on their views to decide what gets monetised and by how much, so they need to be aware of the thoughts of their main base. They also get popular enough that some players are more likely to believe things just because they said it. Both of these feed in to each other to the point that they make issues where there are none and they make existing issues bigger as people jump the bandwagon.

I have seen over the past year, on here and reddit, a lot of posts that equate to this person says this so it must be true and people buy so into it that they do not critically examine what is being said and there has been a fair bit of it recently on here and on reddit.

I can give two examples in For Honor, naming neither streamer involved. One streamer got so frustrated at the end of a match against a Shaman that they vented I outplayed her all through, they looked at their screen and said “Yeah you're right I didn't outplay her at character select”.

I am not going to say that Shaman was perfectly balanced on release but this is a striking example of feeding the viewer bias, this did not need to be said but it is what that streamer's viewers think, it affirms the belief of their viewers and it continues the momentum of let's hate on Shaman. Here is the thing though, what that streamer fell to a lot of other streamers at that time were dealing handily enough with. Shaman is going to get a lot of salt for a long time but the problem with this kind of view is it gives players the comfort of I never had a chance anyhow and doesn't encourage them to work at improving,

The other is way back in season 1 with the Peacekeeper when streamers were trying to prove a point with oh I don't main her but I can advance in tournaments with her. This caused a frothing single minded belief in some that no Peacekeeper play was good play and a person posted a link of a Peacekeeper tournament set of duels. The streamer kept on in their commentary that this was easy mode or too easy, you don't need knowledge of the Peacekeeper to win, the poster posting that link used it as a means of saying Peacekeepers only win using one thing (ie light attack spam).

Um...ok? Problem there is that what we saw was completely different, what we saw in the first round was eleven different offensive and defensive moves including moving seamlessly from parry to max punish, ie, guardbreak, stab stab kick into wall (which was to the side by the by so not a lucky kick forward) forward dodge heavy guaranteed bleed follow up and the round ended with the only light that was thrown by the Peacekeeper in that round. Aside from the fact that the first duel ended 3-2 and the second two rounds were ended by ledging think about that first round for a few seconds and see if you can see the problem.

You don't need knowledge to win as Peacekeeper



Parry max punish requiring nine individual button presses or direction changes (guardbreak, light, light, left, guardbreak, forward, dodge, heavy, light, all lights of which needing precision timing).

That one passage of play showed that at the very least the streamer was being disingenuous, I would say deliberately outright dishonest actually, because they, with no knowledge of the Peacekeeper in their own words had the knowledge and muscle memory to utilise max punishes and they put forward a view that their own gameplay did not reflect. Again this is a matter of I am doing a stunt that will resonate with people who watch my channel, they say things, I will back them up. Everyone leaves happy, except the truth. Here is the fact of it, the streamer showed in that round especially very good Peacekeeper play, waiting for the opportunity and putting out the best damage possible, but that streamer also contributed towards the blind hatred to the point that someone could not tell good play from play that showed actual balance issues.

Now these may have been fairly poor examples in that both of these are among the top tier of classes, but as I say above, it isn't just making issues where there are none, it is muddying the issue or making some issues bigger than they are. There is a lot of good that can come from content creators getting a lot of people into one place, but I feel we need to be a little more careful in blindly following the professed views of individual gamers who need to build and maintain their viewer ratings. For all the good they do, I also think content creators with large followings also kind of need to bear in mind that they carry a fair bit of power and have the responsibility that comes with that power because they can do as much bad to the game also.

I am not saying do not share views or do not tell people you agree with those views, what I am saying is don't take anyone's words blindly as the gospel truth, especially where money or numbers of any kind in terms of popularity are involved. Sometimes people need to think a little more critically than but someone said and that will provide more help for the devs in terms of ideas and feedback.

HazelrahFirefly
05-30-2018, 05:28 PM
Problem: there's no stopping it.

Even if you had a popular stream outright say that they are not a source for reliable information about a game their fans will still repeat their opinions.

Ever disagreed with the streamer on something and expressed? Even if the subject was light and the opinion politely expressed? I have a couple times and you literally get run out of the place (stream) by the rabid community.

Devils-_-legacy
05-30-2018, 05:30 PM
Honestly I dont think this thread will make an impact as some people put more trust in other people viewpoints then there own experience in the game and if it's not streamers or content creator it's the top players argument I don't think it will ever change as if no one agrees with them they always seem to use the same line yeah well ***** said it so it must be true

KitingFatKidsEZ
05-30-2018, 05:37 PM
Thats just how the world works..

People are biased towards anyone with charisma. Learn how to use it yourself. Theres a lot of streamers out there who nobody cares about because they arent charismatic. Its the same **** in the real world and the consequences are much worse there. Welcome to real life.

Blaming circumstances rather than yourself is nothing new either, and to be fair there are a lot of things about this game in particular that are so unbalanced you really dont have to bother blaming yourself (just look at the last state of balanced and matchup winrates, some of those were below 40%) The game just isnt competetive in way too many regards at the end of the day.

Teling people to think for themselves is largely pointless and probably dangerous in some regards.

On a sidenote i watched a bit of fairlight excalibur in the last couple of days and that guy is hillariously awful in regards to what he thinks about the game. Was a good laugh if nothing else. Good times.

Fairemont
05-30-2018, 06:11 PM
A bit of confirmation bias founded and reinforced by a bit of argumentum ad verecundiam.

Generally, these streamers are seen as an authority on a game. They have experience and a lot of viewers, so clearly they know what they are talking about, right? Sometimes, but not in most cases. In most cases they are just a player like anyone else with no real knowledge that cannot be easily attained or verified by others.

However, when these people claim something very similar to something you want to believe, it becomes far easier to believe it, or maybe its just that last bit you need to lock it into your mind as truth.


For example, you lose repeatedly to the newly released shaman. Shaman was tough at release before she got toned down a bit. Not unbeatable, by any means, but you have lost all but a handful of matches against them. Now a streamer you watch/follow also loses a string of games against them and claims they are, without a doubt, entirely unbeatable and over powered. It reaffirms that what you believe to be true, is in fact, true.


Sadly, can't really avoid it. Its the same way with basically any prominent figure from parents to movie stars.