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WFL_M4sT3R_
05-28-2018, 06:41 PM
When will Nobushi get buff, cause at this state its complete trash???

Erhanninja
05-29-2018, 12:29 AM
Iím Nobushi rep 40+ but quit playing her. Because while they over buffed some other heroes they nerfed Nobushi to the ground. She has nothing left. No opener slow attacks. HS useless against assassins and consumes too much stamina also slow.

ArmoredChocobo
05-29-2018, 03:04 AM
If they could remove the stamina gain freeze after hidden stance, she'd have some better options.

If they're gonna keep her heavies AND lights so slow and predictable, HS needs to be given a bit more viability.

Fairemont
05-29-2018, 04:36 PM
In many ways, Nobushi is in a really bad spot.

And by bad spot I mean she is incredibly difficult to buff in any way without putting her over the top.

Right now, she has a LOT of little tricks that are very difficult for even experienced players to figure out without being told you can do something. Her kit is technically very robust with some techs that no one else can use.

The problem is learning how to use it.

Learning to not be overly aggressive. Sometimes one poke is better than two.

For example, side lights are 500ms and top is 600ms. Top light does more damage, but 500ms is far safer to land.

Learning how to use her recovery cancel is big. There are a lot of things that can be done to cancel it that you might not readily realize.

For example, viper's retreat can be used in the middle of a combo and continues that combo seamlessly. Took me a whole lot of reps to figure that out. Mid-combo viper's retreat into sidewinder is very tricky to react to as sidewinder used to cancel recovery is very fast for a heavy, and after Viper's Retreat bleed is applied it does a ton of damage.

Etc. etc.


Still, she is a character that requires a lot of dedication to play and you definitely need to know what you can and cannot hidden stance effectively against.

Knight_Raime
05-29-2018, 05:49 PM
She's deff not trash. She's hard to buff though because of how good hidden stance is.

BTTrinity
05-29-2018, 06:07 PM
Nobushi just needs more opportunities outside hidden stance to punish openings.... I forget who said it, but I'll quote them anyway "Her dodge attacks should be buffed, she either attacks with no dodge or dodges with no attack"

Nobushi would be in a pretty good place if they made it so she can use Cobra/Sidewinder a bit farther into the dodge.... "I find it hard to believe Kensei with his heavy armor and sephiroth sword should have more mobility than Nobushi wearing cloth with a knife on a stick."

Another thing I'd like to see is a buff to swift recoil, making it so the move breaks all tracking for a second so people cant just easily spam another attack and catch her during the dodge/retreat.

Hidden Stance is strong already, if they do buff it they should just shorten the stamina regeneration delay (Ill be fine if they leave it alone)

Make it so she gets her guaranteed heavy off kick into wallsplat every time, no matter how close you are you should always get that heavy if you land a wallsplat from kick.

Erhanninja
05-29-2018, 07:25 PM
I agree. Dodge attack has no good properties of either attack type. It doesnít dodge any attack so itís not dodge attack. But people can also go right through it so a bit pointless.

Nobody uses top heavy because itís nearly as low as heavy. So people donít even expect it.

I tried vipers retreat in a combo but it comes very slow I think you will get parried easily.

HS needs to looked from stamina perspective. Also itís not effective against light spanning heroes because their second light always comes out faster.

One thing I also realised kick into a wall doesnít do wallsplat anymore or is it just me? I tried in the arena quite few times and it doesnít work. But HL kick into walls does a wallsplat so whatís the difference here. Itís even easier to kixk for HL coz he can do it out of neutral.

BTTrinity
05-29-2018, 07:42 PM
I agree. Dodge attack has no good properties of either attack type. It doesn’t dodge any attack so it’s not dodge attack. But people can also go right through it so a bit pointless.

Nobody uses top heavy because it’s nearly as low as heavy. So people don’t even expect it.

I tried vipers retreat in a combo but it comes very slow I think you will get parried easily.

HS needs to looked from stamina perspective. Also it’s not effective against light spanning heroes because their second light always comes out faster.

One thing I also realised kick into a wall doesn’t do wallsplat anymore or is it just me? I tried in the arena quite few times and it doesn’t work. But HL kick into walls does a wallsplat so what’s the difference here. It’s even easier to kixk for HL coz he can do it out of neutral.

I try to space with Nobu a lot, using vipers retreat is my main way of avoiding guardbreaks lol

Kick still splats, was just doing it earlier... My issue with kick into wallsplat, its the follow up... if you get to close your heavy isnt guaranteed.

UbiJurassic
05-29-2018, 09:39 PM
Thanks for sharing your balance feedback on Nobushi everyone! As I'm sure you all already know, Nobushi got her major balance adjustments in Season 5 and right now the team is focusing on the rest of the reworks and major balance adjustments for the rest of the original hero roster. While there aren't any planned changes coming to Nobushi at this time, I'll definitely make sure to forward the feedback and comments in this thread.

Kryltic
05-29-2018, 10:17 PM
Thanks for sharing your balance feedback on Nobushi everyone! As I'm sure you all already know, Nobushi got her major balance adjustments in Season 5 and right now the team is focusing on the rest of the reworks and major balance adjustments for the rest of the original hero roster. While there aren't any planned changes coming to Nobushi at this time, I'll definitely make sure to forward the feedback and comments in this thread.

Lets call it what it is and not pretend it was anything else. It was a hit with the nerf bat which wasn't needed.

All the other heroes got new chains, HA, unblockables, faster attacks and other improvements to their current kit. (In various combinations.)

Nobushi got her kick sped up (which is still easy to avoid) and a damage nerf... Yeah I'm not really seeing it tbh.

Fairemont
05-29-2018, 10:49 PM
Thanks for sharing your balance feedback on Nobushi everyone! As I'm sure you all already know, Nobushi got her major balance adjustments in Season 5 and right now the team is focusing on the rest of the reworks and major balance adjustments for the rest of the original hero roster. While there aren't any planned changes coming to Nobushi at this time, I'll definitely make sure to forward the feedback and comments in this thread.

Your use of the word "major" confuses me here. It was, at best, a minor tweak.

While I can understand that there are no further adjustments coming her way any time soon, that is a bit belittling to say something so blatantly untrue.

Xil_h
05-30-2018, 12:46 AM
Her light attacks are so slow that against skilled players I get parried on a regular basis...

Fairemont
05-30-2018, 02:53 PM
The only time you use her light attacks are as side lights to interrupt incoming attacks. Never follow up with the second hit. Nobushi's heavy attacks are her primary attacks and are a bit harder to punish her on, even if they are just as badly telegraphed.

In fact, you should almost never attack from neutral.

Only attack when you can guarantee success.

BTTrinity
05-30-2018, 03:01 PM
Lets call it what it is and not pretend it was anything else. It was a hit with the nerf bat which wasn't needed.

All the other heroes got new chains, HA, unblockables, faster attacks and other improvements to their current kit. (In various combinations.)

Nobushi got her kick sped up (which is still easy to avoid) and a damage nerf... Yeah I'm not really seeing it tbh.

They did quite a bit to her

Double poke combo out of HS now confirms 34 (From 44) damage

Nerfed her zone to be useless trash outside of minion clear

Parry changes, she can now be punished no matter how far you space.

They "normalized" her dodge attack recoveries and made it so she cant dodge backwards to recover...

All for what, a follow up attack for a move that people never use in the first place? (Swift Recoil)

The kick buff was nice, but it still doesnt change that Nobu is only viable because of hidden stance... It just reinforced that by giving hidden stance a more consistent follow up.

Her place in 1v1's hardly changed while she was nerfed hard for 4v4's

The point of the reworks is to powercreep the OG heroes to be as strong as the DLC heroes..

Definitely not the case with Nobu and PK

Cant believe they reworked Conq, and Kensei, and (pretty much) Zerk, Highlander then looked at Nobushi and decided she needed far more nerfs then buffs to keep her up to speed.


The only time you use her light attacks are as side lights to interrupt incoming attacks. Never follow up with the second hit. Nobushi's heavy attacks are her primary attacks and are a bit harder to punish her on, even if they are just as badly telegraphed.

In fact, you should almost never attack from neutral.

Only attack when you can guarantee success.

Yep, especially with Nobushi and her extremely telegraphed attacks.

If I'm throwing attacks from neutral, better believe I'm going to feint about 90% of them.

Fairemont
05-30-2018, 05:56 PM
Yep, especially with Nobushi and her extremely telegraphed attacks.

If I'm throwing attacks from neutral, better believe I'm going to feint about 90% of them.

You mean if you manage to hit that extremely tight feint window with hidden stance, right? You have like 40ms to hit that button or it flies free with similar results to the doves in Independence Day.

KitingFatKidsEZ
05-30-2018, 06:07 PM
her kick is abyssmal, her dodge is atrocious, her dodge attack(s) is easily and BY FAR! the worst on dodge action in the game

hidden stance feinting isnt used for feinting but to instantly put yourself out of stam

The issue with her zone was all that unparryable unlocked tech abuse. If they would have fixed that and just made it 500 ms it would be basically the same as Kenseis is now

The only thing she has going for herself is the raw neutral heavy damage, and you can just pick raider if you want that and get everything else improved on top. I guess she synergizes better with shaman Kappa

Fairemont
05-30-2018, 06:19 PM
her kick is abyssmal, her dodge is atrocious, her dodge attack(s) is easily and BY FAR! the worst on dodge action in the game

hidden stance feinting isnt used for feinting but to instantly put yourself out of stam

The issue with her zone was all that unparryable unlocked tech abuse. If they would have fixed that and just made it 500 ms it would be basically the same as Kenseis is now

The only thing she has going for herself is the raw neutral heavy damage, and you can just pick raider if you want that and get everything else improved on top. I guess she synergizes better with shaman Kappa

In many ways her kick is, as you say, useless. It can stomp noobs, but anyone with some experience will be able to dodge it, GB, and take the free heavy. Because kick is only guaranteed off of a blocked heavy (and maybe something else, I'm not sure), its basically setting yourself up to get punished. Like most of her attacks, its tremendously telegraphed.

Feinting with her hidden stance is a powerful and very potent technique, and can bait a great deal of people. If you could manage to guarantee a kick out of it, such as launching kick from hidden stance and not as a follow-up with hyper armor, it could be useful. Then it could bash through anything it baits and get you some nice, free damage for a trade. Otherwise, you rely on them not being able to hit you in that window between the I-frames and when your light hits them.

Its... tough. As Trinity pointed out the parry and dodge changes were unintentional, but rather substantial nerfs to Nobushi. Before, if you were at range, you could safely throw heavies and not be immediately punished for it, but can't any longer. It removed one of her only true out of neutral attacks that had any safety to it.

Unfortunately, as they say, they have no intention of fixing Nobushi after some of the side-effects of overall game changes have hurt her. Nothing we can do about that, though, except complain.

Squeaky wheel gets the oil, so to speak. Maybe they will listen to us!

KitingFatKidsEZ
05-30-2018, 06:22 PM
Because kick is only guaranteed off of a blocked heavy
Im fairly sure its not guaranteed off a blocked heavy. I vividly remember playing the character THINKING that it is guaranteed off a blocked heavy and then have my world shattered when i saw a guy dodge it (duel, no outside interference).

Someone later told me that it is guaranteed off blocked heavies form hidden stance but i never bothered to try that.

Anyway pretty sure its not guaranteed off blocked HV from neutral. Small chance of a repeated input error on my end but probably not.

Fairemont
05-30-2018, 06:28 PM
Im fairly sure its not guaranteed off a blocked heavy. I vividly remember playing the character THINKING that it is guaranteed off a blocked heavy and then have my world shattered when i saw a guy dodge it (duel, no outside interference).

Someone later told me that it is guaranteed off blocked heavies form hidden stance but i never bothered to try that.

Anyway pretty sure its not guaranteed off blocked HV from neutral. Small chance of a repeated input error on my end but probably not.

Might be blocked heavies from non-assassins. Perhaps I have been mislead, too!

BTTrinity
05-30-2018, 10:27 PM
You mean if you manage to hit that extremely tight feint window with hidden stance, right? You have like 40ms to hit that button or it flies free with similar results to the doves in Independence Day.

Nah, thats not an issue for me. Ill feint lights 107% of the time

Nobushi's kick is guaranteed when you throw a heavy out of HS and the enemy blocks it, or if it connects.

Elhantas
05-31-2018, 01:40 AM
Nobushi 'main' at rep 17 so far.

My experience with the her recently is pure unadulterated stress. I've got to THAT part of matchmaking queue, where everything i throw at people is getting countered one way or another.
- Using the soft feint from any attack to get an opponent to react works only and ONLY if the enemy tryed to parry you, otherwise his attacks will be faster then yours and will hit and punish you for even trying such a thing in the first place.
- At this point in my Nobushi career im afraid to throw lights as i used to, since having lights as slow as other character heavy's, are pretty easy to parry and they ARE parryed every time as such.
- Dodge attacks... Unless my enemy is a total rep of 2 or lower i could pull it off, otherwise, its parryed or atleast blocked.
- Long-range prefix below the character name in character select, should be removed as to not insult people with delusions. Kensei has longer range AND longer reach with most of his attackes, surpassing the highest range Nobushi has(dodge forward into light). Not to mention 1 of these characters have supperior tracking while the other doesnt, ill leave it to you, to try and guess which.
- Zone attack became one of those zone attacks that get parryed at a whim. I think even shugoki has a faster one(need to fact check that one).
- Kick, tbh i find it ok, it should not become another shoulder bash or shield slam. Its dodgable, its not vortexable.
- Hidden Stance, people with light combos will beat the HS every time, and they do so. You can use HS against the new orochi or PK if you're feeling suicidal, but you have no choice in the matter, because its the core of Nobushi, and those 400ms(or as one youtuber confirmed Orochi having a 266ms attack) will always get you no matter how hard you try.
- Lag comp realy smoothed the game, but for whatever reason it made it so that i wont be able to dodge any of the vortex spams in the game(conq/warden, etc) even when i know its coming and im mashing that space bar for a dodge, but its just not dodging. Maybe its my 27ms latency at fault? Or what my scoreboard keeps telling me.

So yeah, these are my recent gripes with the game. I log in, daily, get beaten 7 times out of 10 by these ''main-stream'' characters with nothing for me to do as to just sit there and be frustrated. I love the game, i realy do, but i dont know how much i can keep getting frustrated for the same things and not quit. Maybe im just bad, maybe i got flung to a league way out of my skill range but at this point, i just feel sad that the very game i liked and followed since beta(even tho i saved enough money for pc and the game just recently) is already saying goodbye and telling me to go fight bots.

Kryltic
05-31-2018, 09:45 AM
She has had too many direct and indirect nerfs and basically only works best in killing minions or poking enemies who are already busy with someone else.

She has some of the slowest and most telegraphed attacks across the board, this wasn't so bad when she couldn't always be parry punished but now its become a serious problem for her. She has no real way to open a turtle and (similar to the Valk) she has to work so much harder than others for the same amount of damage. Trying to use chains is a bigger risk than a reward (again similar to Valk).

Combined with the fact she has multiple weak/poor feats (although this is very much a Samurai problem), it all adds up to a bigger issue.

I'm not saying shes terrible, she has the kit she needs to do okay but she does need a little love in terms of numbers and speed. She doesn't fit the whole UB and massed HA theme but and it's a big but, what she does need are the risks of her attacks reducing, she needs to be able to apply some kind of pressure without the fear of 95% of her attacks getting parried.

Xil_h
05-31-2018, 10:13 AM
Nobushi 'main' at rep 17 so far.

My experience with the her recently is pure unadulterated stress. I've got to THAT part of matchmaking queue, where everything i throw at people is getting countered one way or another.
- Using the soft feint from any attack to get an opponent to react works only and ONLY if the enemy tryed to parry you, otherwise his attacks will be faster then yours and will hit and punish you for even trying such a thing in the first place.
- At this point in my Nobushi career im afraid to throw lights as i used to, since having lights as slow as other character heavy's, are pretty easy to parry and they ARE parryed every time as such.
- Dodge attacks... Unless my enemy is a total rep of 2 or lower i could pull it off, otherwise, its parryed or atleast blocked.
- Long-range prefix below the character name in character select, should be removed as to not insult people with delusions. Kensei has longer range AND longer reach with most of his attackes, surpassing the highest range Nobushi has(dodge forward into light). Not to mention 1 of these characters have supperior tracking while the other doesnt, ill leave it to you, to try and guess which.
- Zone attack became one of those zone attacks that get parryed at a whim. I think even shugoki has a faster one(need to fact check that one).
- Kick, tbh i find it ok, it should not become another shoulder bash or shield slam. Its dodgable, its not vortexable.
- Hidden Stance, people with light combos will beat the HS every time, and they do so. You can use HS against the new orochi or PK if you're feeling suicidal, but you have no choice in the matter, because its the core of Nobushi, and those 400ms(or as one youtuber confirmed Orochi having a 266ms attack) will always get you no matter how hard you try.
- Lag comp realy smoothed the game, but for whatever reason it made it so that i wont be able to dodge any of the vortex spams in the game(conq/warden, etc) even when i know its coming and im mashing that space bar for a dodge, but its just not dodging. Maybe its my 27ms latency at fault? Or what my scoreboard keeps telling me.

So yeah, these are my recent gripes with the game. I log in, daily, get beaten 7 times out of 10 by these ''main-stream'' characters with nothing for me to do as to just sit there and be frustrated. I love the game, i realy do, but i dont know how much i can keep getting frustrated for the same things and not quit. Maybe im just bad, maybe i got flung to a league way out of my skill range but at this point, i just feel sad that the very game i liked and followed since beta(even tho i saved enough money for pc and the game just recently) is already saying goodbye and telling me to go fight bots.

Totally agree. My win rate is dropping... Fast. I decided to play Kensei more now until there will come a buff.
Ah the good old times where I killed 3 guys of 4 in a 1v4 situation... now I just get parried on a light attack and die like a ******ed dog.

Elhantas
05-31-2018, 11:10 AM
Going to add to my previous post.

Just had a 1v1 with an orochi, so apparently he has long range too. Neither dodge forward+light, nor backward+light can reach his backward+light while his still does on both occasions...He is SO fast, that my lights are simply interrupted by his. What baffles me is that, orochis lights mid combo dont bounce off like our ones when its simply blocked and not parryed. He just continues comboing. Is this a bug or something?

KitingFatKidsEZ
05-31-2018, 11:15 AM
Nobushi's kick is guaranteed when you throw a heavy out of HS and the enemy blocks it, or if it connects.

thanks for clearing that up, why does everything in this game have to be so cryptic ResidentSleeper

Fairemont
05-31-2018, 04:15 PM
I am firmly in the boat of Nobushi having her long-range tag removed. Almost half the cast is better at hitting from long range than her at this point. Kensei, Highlaner, Orochi, Shinobi to name a few. Her versatile retreats literally do not exist. That could be removed as well.

She should be given the tags of like... Stamina Management Simulator 2018 and Depression-inducing Frustration with a rating of Just Play Highlander, he's a better Nobushi, anyway.


Its getting out of hand with how badly she has been crippled by game adjustments that break her more prominent features and make her more-and-more punishable every time.

BTTrinity
05-31-2018, 04:29 PM
thanks for clearing that up, why does everything in this game have to be so cryptic ResidentSleeper

Pretty sure its not intended, its a side effect of them speeding her kick up. I hardly get use out of it anyway :(

Ill also be sticking with Kensei and Shinobi for a bit, till Nobu and Ara get buffed

WFL_M4sT3R_
05-31-2018, 07:14 PM
First of all, thank you all for respond to this topic, and what i understand form reading, nobushi is just at bad place at the moment, and i will move to some other heroes until it get some buff. Its frustrating indeed to play with her atm. Health pool is very very low, even i maxed out defense at rep 10 still some heroes takes 2-3 hits to kill me. Hidden stance is useful tool, but with game changed mechanic where everybody throwing repeatedly light attacks its useless, and even you manage to avoid 1st attack with hidden stance you will soon run out of stamina and die, cause if you go for hidden stance again in short period that will happened for sure. The best is to forget about her and hope for some better times where she can find her place.

Fairemont
05-31-2018, 08:19 PM
First of all, thank you all for respond to this topic, and what i understand form reading, nobushi is just at bad place at the moment, and i will move to some other heroes until it get some buff. Its frustrating indeed to play with her atm. Health pool is very very low, even i maxed out defense at rep 10 still some heroes takes 2-3 hits to kill me. Hidden stance is useful tool, but with game changed mechanic where everybody throwing repeatedly light attacks its useless, and even you manage to avoid 1st attack with hidden stance you will soon run out of stamina and die, cause if you go for hidden stance again in short period that will happened for sure. The best is to forget about her and hope for some better times where she can find her place.

I don't know if I'd necessarily give up on her... she is still quite usable. You just have to reaaally bring your A-game every time. So satisfying when things come together for her, though. Can't say that about anyone else.

KotoKuraken
06-01-2018, 07:33 AM
I believe in hard facts. And the hard facts say she's down there with Valk. Orochi probably got lifted up a bit with his changes, but Valk and Nobu are still struggling a lot

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/430799446910173195/451949690033012736/Screenshot_111.png

Fairemont
06-01-2018, 03:00 PM
I believe in hard facts. And the hard facts say she's down there with Valk. Orochi probably got lifted up a bit with his changes, but Valk and Nobu are still struggling a lot

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/430799446910173195/451949690033012736/Screenshot_111.png

That her only good match-ups area against valkyrie and shinobi says a bit.

Shinobi is widely regarded as her best match-up, and she barely scratches by at 53% with him. Valkyrie she has 54% win rate against. Two characters who are super vulnerable to hidden stance and her interrupting pokes.

Orochi is undoubtedly moved up from the bottom where he is at now, I would suspect.

Elhantas
06-04-2018, 06:39 AM
Just wanted to add another little personal gripe. And you might say im being nitpicky, but these things add to a whole, and where there are too many of these things, well, things need to be fixed.

Why is Nobushi fumbling whenever i change direction? Should't she have a balanced step? Its like, whenever i change direction at a WALKING speed, she almost falls over. Same with emotes or executions. 'Give us a smile' execution, she almost falls over after it. Its so... distracting. :(

Erhanninja
06-11-2018, 03:35 AM
I have to work triple hard compared to other heroes. Her attacks are very slow and predictable easily get parried. No openers nobody sees as threat. Kick got a bit better but still slow and easy to dodge with free GB and canít kick from neutral like other heroes. Mix ups depend on hidden stance but it consumes ridicilious stamina only can use it twice then OOS. Made her zone useless while other reworked heroes gained instant zone attacks. HL even Kensei has more range than her. She is supposed to be nimble but she isnít. Dodge attacks neither dodges nor catches moving enemy.

Iím absolutely **** with Kensei or Conq but I win more playing those heroes. Even with Kensei just doing top light zone and dodge attack into light.

I canít comprehend why they nerfed her to the ground. They over buffed HL or have Kai level 1 feat to Orochi but took her only unique healing feature away as well as damage. Gave her a useless attack after block.

Kryltic
06-11-2018, 10:26 PM
Well it seems if we want a good Nobushi we will have to play one of the new Heroes for the new faction because the Samurai ain't getting any love soon :(

Fairemont
06-11-2018, 10:50 PM
Yeah, apparently Nobushi is going to get kicked to the sideline by two new heroes. No wonder she has gotten no love from the devs lately.


Apparently got buffed from bottom 3 to bottom 3 and that was enough.

Sad.

ArmoredChocobo
06-11-2018, 10:59 PM
Nobushi's never getting a rework now cuz one of the new heroes uses the same weapon she does.

He's her replacement.

Fairemont
06-11-2018, 11:32 PM
Nobushi's never getting a rework now cuz one of the new heroes uses the same weapon she does.

He's her replacement.

Based on the bits of gameplay in the breach mode walkthrough, the monk will likely replace her. His moveset looks like it fills the long-range role she supposedly had before, while being faster.

Mr. Guanyu looks like a replacement for Lawbringer.

Xil_h
06-13-2018, 10:11 AM
With the Shaolin and the Jiang Jun release Nobushi will be even further pushed down the list.
She really needs some love...

Helnekromancer
06-13-2018, 04:08 PM
With the Shaolin and the Jiang Jun release Nobushi will be even further pushed down the list.
She really needs some love...

Yea they are going too replace her, One his faster and has more in his kit and the other has better zoning and slashing attacks.

Erhanninja
06-13-2018, 07:30 PM
As much as I love Nobushi she is dead for sure after this new faction. First of all any hero needs a rework wonít get it because all effort is going to this new faction heroes. Iím going to switch to Shaolin. He has best feats of Nobushi and Valk as far as I can see.

Fairemont
06-14-2018, 04:30 AM
They lied to us, friends! Nobushi did get a rework! Even got a new faction and new name...

And gender change!


She is known as Shaolin now. How exciting!

Armosias
06-14-2018, 09:27 AM
As much as I love Nobushi she is dead for sure after this new faction. First of all any hero needs a rework wonít get it because all effort is going to this new faction heroes. Iím going to switch to Shaolin. He has best feats of Nobushi and Valk as far as I can see.
Please keep in mind that the Wu Lin are coming in october not tomorrow, they are already internaly testing this faction balance and gameplay wise. They have a lot of time to test and touch Warlord, Warden, Shugoki, Valkyrie and Lawbringer. Even against this new faction !

ThatMetalDude
06-14-2018, 10:03 AM
I would like to be able to use hidden stance more freely, but as it is now, it drains nearly all your stamina, and thus can only be reliably used from neutral.
Also, hidden stance is very limited in its counter-attacking potential. Using it to dodge any attack that can be followed up by a combo into a light attack will just result in you getting hit by said light attack before you can counter with your own. So not only is using hidden stance quite difficult, but you now have taken damage AND drained all of your stamina AND prevented your stamina from regenerating for a few seconds.

I think that maybe dodging an attack with hidden stance should function similarily to getting a deflect with Orochi, letting you either get some guaranteed damage in with a special light attack, or risk a slower heavy attack that can be countered in some way.

Also, being able to use hidden stance as a recovery anywhere within a combo would be a nice way to let us maintain pressure. Iím pretty sure that was originaly the idea with hidden stance, and maybe it can already be done? But I have never been able to pull it off, and even if I did, activating hidden stance when you have less than 90% stamina will exhaust you instantly, thatís too high of a price to pay for a potential double light poke!

Also, the Shaolin character pretty much looks like he has the speed and the options that Nobushi should have had.
His damage seems a little lower, but being able to safely deal 10 damage is still way better than putting yourself at an enormous risk of getting parried for a chance of dealing 20 damage. (Not actual numbers, just making a point)

Final suggestion: please give us the option to make the hidden stance input a toggle.
That way we could flick the right stick down, and then freely use the right stick to choose a direction for our counter attack.
The way it works now, the window to choose a new stance direction is so small that if you move the right stick too soon, she will just stop doing the hidden stance, and Iím pretty sure that you donít get the invincibility frames when that happens (your stamina still takes a hit, pretty harsh donít you think?)

Fairemont
06-14-2018, 06:50 PM
I wouldn't mind being able to feint any part of a combo with Nobushi's hidden stance, but only hard-feint her start-up heavy. Too often I get input delay throwing out an attack I can't stop, and not being able to feint a second heavy at all has put me in some precarious situations. Not to mention it would allow Nobushi a bit more mix-up potential than she currently has and reduce some of the punishment she takes. The hard-hit to your stamina later on would be rough, meaning that even if you feinted out of a later attack you'd be doing it primarily to stop yourself from getting hurt, less so than doing so offensively aside from maybe throwing out a viper's retreat.

Giving her too much safety out of Hidden Stance is tricky. Ensuring she is able to trade with combos is not necessarily the best way to go. She CAN dodge out of hidden stance, so if her dodge wasn't absolute trash that'd be great, but it does give you a chance to evade some combo attacks. However, with the prevalence of undodgeables making their way into the game more recently that's not an ideal situation for her to be in either. I wouldn't mind seeing her have a dodge like valk to use out of hidden stance, so that if you dodge into an attack you get a block. Not necessarily a deflect.

However, that might make Hidden Stance waaay too powerful. But as Nobushi stands right now, that wouldn't be a bad thing either. Its her only crutch she has to stand on.

She could stand to have some minor tweaks, really, that would make a huge difference. Give her sidewinder dodge like kensei and/or undodgeable properties so it can trade with other dodge attacks instead of being overwhelmed by them. Her neutral dodge could stand to have better movement capabilities. Swift Recoil could use a tweak. Her light dodge attack needs some love because right now it will get parried literally every time. Maybe slightly more movement on it.

I wouldn't mind seeing her be able to swift recoil when blocked, effectively using momentum to space out and reset. She could use something to give back her range that parry changes took away from her, because right now her range is no better than anyone else except perhaps with Viper's Retreat.

Hmm... Her damage doesn't really need a buff. She hits like a truck, especially when the enemy is bleeding, but right now there isn't any good way to deliver that damage, and the only good way to do it is to do the only combo she really has so it makes her really easy to react to.

Her so-called rework to her kick was absolutely useless. It was good for a while because it looked faster, but it is only guaranteed off of a blocked heavy out of hidden stance, which means it is very dodgeable in all other situations, essentially making it the very same kick it replaced. However, I liked the old animation better.

There's lots of little tweaks that could be done to make her a lot more viable in 1v1 without making her more dangerous on 4v4, where she is only dangerous if no one is attacking her back. If you're being 2v1'd and one of those people is Nobushi, switch to her because then she is going to be right back to being useless. Otherwise all it takes is for her to land a viper's retreat on you when you're not watching and bop you on the head with a heavy from hell, basically pulverizing your spine like a hydraulic press. Other than that, throwing kicks from neutral hidden stance, bleeding for shaman pounces, and wall splatting people is where she gets the rest of her 4v4 viability. It really isn't from her being dangerous or her kit being strong, its from her having a couple tools that make one hit from her when you're not watching rather dangerous to your health by allowing her allies to pulverize you.

The_B0G_
06-14-2018, 08:07 PM
No.

Elhantas
06-18-2018, 10:59 AM
Fun day for me as a nobushi. My rep at the moment of these games rep 19.

My games are as follows:
Lost 0 - 3 vs Peacekeeper, rep 10, was too slow to even attack her, feints did not work, or worked for her to dmg me even more.Managed to light attack her twice.
Lost 0 - 3 vs Warden, rep 5, typical warden shanenigans, he wasnt even that good of a warden. He simply knew how to block and dodge the kick...
Won 3 - 0 vs Shugoki, lvl 19, new shugoki, didnt parry, thought he was invulnerable.
Lost 0 - 3 vs Berserker, rep 12, dodge+light, ignores feints, dodges kicks. Could do nothing, attacked thin air.
- matchmaking could'nt find me a match, queued against a bot, even tho i set it so i would play vs players? -
Lost 2 - 3 vs highlander, rep 10, all losses included him stunlocking via, grabs and stagger hits...
Won 3 - 2 vs same Highlander, won by not letting him start his stun-combo....
Lost 1 - 3 vs same Highlander, kick/grab spammed. Hidden stance did not help.
Won 3 - 1 vs Highlander, rep 8. He rarely used his combo's. Lost the round where he did. Couldnt feint my light attacks with hidden stance due to latency or poorly optimised map(maybe because it had rain?)...
Won 3 - 2 vs Berserker, rep 3. Berely won. He turtled, and i didnt want to spam the kick.... Eventualy could do nothing else to him except the kick into whatever
Lost 1 -3 vs Shaman, rep 12. She could reach me with her jumps, i couldnt reach her if she backdodged. Feinted her unblockable into geardbreak when the parry window was lit? And did it quite often...
Won 3 - 1 vs Shugoki, rep 3. He was just reaching that point in skill where he could effectively trade with his hyper armor. Still not there yet, so i won.
Won 3 - 0 vs Warlord, rep 1. He didnt know his moves, no challange.
Lost 1 - 3 vs Kensei(last games Warlord), rep 10. 80% of his dmg was from his dodge/heavy. He fails an attack because i dodged or he whiffed, and he still gets to use that dodge attack to avoid being punished and land an attack. He was slower then me in decision making, and yet i was powerless to punish him. He didnt even try to parry anything, just dodged whenever he felt threatened for dmg.
After that game i quit for today. Nonsensical balancing.

Fairemont
06-18-2018, 04:49 PM
Fun day for me as a nobushi. My rep at the moment of these games rep 19.

My games are as follows:
Lost 0 - 3 vs Peacekeeper, rep 10, was too slow to even attack her, feints did not work, or worked for her to dmg me even more.Managed to light attack her twice.
Lost 0 - 3 vs Warden, rep 5, typical warden shanenigans, he wasnt even that good of a warden. He simply knew how to block and dodge the kick...
Won 3 - 0 vs Shugoki, lvl 19, new shugoki, didnt parry, thought he was invulnerable.
Lost 0 - 3 vs Berserker, rep 12, dodge+light, ignores feints, dodges kicks. Could do nothing, attacked thin air.
- matchmaking could'nt find me a match, queued against a bot, even tho i set it so i would play vs players? -
Lost 2 - 3 vs highlander, rep 10, all losses included him stunlocking via, grabs and stagger hits...
Won 3 - 2 vs same Highlander, won by not letting him start his stun-combo....
Lost 1 - 3 vs same Highlander, kick/grab spammed. Hidden stance did not help.
Won 3 - 1 vs Highlander, rep 8. He rarely used his combo's. Lost the round where he did. Couldnt feint my light attacks with hidden stance due to latency or poorly optimised map(maybe because it had rain?)...
Won 3 - 2 vs Berserker, rep 3. Berely won. He turtled, and i didnt want to spam the kick.... Eventualy could do nothing else to him except the kick into whatever
Lost 1 -3 vs Shaman, rep 12. She could reach me with her jumps, i couldnt reach her if she backdodged. Feinted her unblockable into geardbreak when the parry window was lit? And did it quite often...
Won 3 - 1 vs Shugoki, rep 3. He was just reaching that point in skill where he could effectively trade with his hyper armor. Still not there yet, so i won.
Won 3 - 0 vs Warlord, rep 1. He didnt know his moves, no challange.
Lost 1 - 3 vs Kensei(last games Warlord), rep 10. 80% of his dmg was from his dodge/heavy. He fails an attack because i dodged or he whiffed, and he still gets to use that dodge attack to avoid being punished and land an attack. He was slower then me in decision making, and yet i was powerless to punish him. He didnt even try to parry anything, just dodged whenever he felt threatened for dmg.
After that game i quit for today. Nonsensical balancing.

Dodge Highlanders kick, since that isn't too hard, then hidden stance his grab. Hidden stance dodges it, then punish him. Its hilarious. He'll stop doing it right away. If you can get it down, that is. I see you mentioned it did not help but not in what regard so I can't say anything to that. :)

PKs can be tricky if they are really on the ball, but you can abuse their reflex guard with single side light pokes.

Wardens are tricky. Hidden stance is superior to their 50/50 shoulder bash combo because you can counter guard break out of hidden stance. Its not always going to work for you, but don't try a traditional dodge or you'll get grabbed. It takes some serious timing to get it down and a bit of prediction. I find most will guard break.

Shugokis are usually a good match up for Nobushi. Usually. Berserkers suck, especially if they turtle, since their hyper armor is so prevalent. Since Nobushi relies a lot on poking people out of attacks and using hidden stance, neither of which will work against this spam-happy hyper armor fellow. Usually a good swift recoil or two can get you some distance. Then just hope you can out turtle him.

HKPirate
06-18-2018, 08:18 PM
Lol nobushi is the most OP class in the game. Bleeds, fast kick locks, can attack from multiple angles, some of the best perks, is one of the fastest, does way more damage then she should.

Fairemont
06-18-2018, 10:01 PM
Lol nobushi is the most OP class in the game. Bleeds, fast kick locks, can attack from multiple angles, some of the best perks, is one of the fastest, does way more damage then she should.

Nobushi is a brutal noob stomper, but against anyone who knows how to defend themselves she is practically worthless.

If you think she is OP, just learn how to parry and you'll tear her apart.

Her bleed is rather uninspiring, her kick is atrocious and only guaranteed after one particular attack, cannot attack from more angles than anyone else, her perks are pretty meh, and her damage is not particularly insane unless you're bleeding and if she can drop a heavy on you while you're bleeding you just need to learn to defend better.

Elhantas
07-03-2018, 11:16 AM
Hey there again, i have this thread tabbed, havent seen much talk about the new bug for Nobushi talked about. You know, the sidewinder after parry thing. How is that working out for you guys?

My day? fought a bunch of turtling Lawbringers, that was fun. And now with the added dodge change, you can no longer dodge his shove+top light into a free gb. For some reason in my fights he has enough times to use a light AND heavy before i can dodge and gb him. Fun times we're heading into.

Seriously its getting so bad with turtles they dont even see the need to dodge anymore...

Fairemont
07-03-2018, 02:22 PM
Just use viper's retreat. It's 26 damage if they aren't bleeding. If they are bleeding you can slap them with your zone for 25 or some such. Not quite as good but it gets the job done.

YeeHawRuss
03-16-2019, 01:12 AM
While it is understandable that Ubisoft has only tried to balance the game for players, They made a few characters completely useless against others. If anything, Ubisoft has balanced the game for most characters, but there are a couple characters that are insignificant when facing the balanced characters. Nobushi is a favorite of the community, and has a certain charm to fighting battles with the underdog. Unfortunately, the dog has been pushed so far down, that there is no satisfaction because there is no more winning. One of Nobushi's main abilities is Hidden Stance, which can be great against some heroes, but useless against the ones with a second attack that is faster than her counter from hidden stance (Kensei, Tiandi, Black Prior, Valkyrie, all of the assasinsÖ). Since she is a counter attacker, maybe she should have a better dodge attack on her heavy. Kensei can do a side heavy attack, and it hits much harder. It would be nicer to have her heavy dodge attack be similar. Of course they cannot do this with the lights because the bleed would be enormous if you could land that many bleed attacks. With this simple change, a great deal of issues would be fixed with her, but would that make hidden stance obsolete? Not at all. Dodge attacks are easily parried because they are guaranteed, so hidden stance will still be a large reliability. There is just one issue with hidden stance mentioned earlier, which is the effectiveness of the Hidden Stance. A second simple attack would make hidden stance unusable. Maybe have a small increase in range with the jump back of hidden stance so she does not get hit with a second attack. Her kick if fine, but it should be pointed out that some unblockable attacks from heroes such as highlander or centurion completely knock you to the ground, so it would be fair to have something with some equal power for Nobushi such as the heavy dodge attack.

Maxime_Qc-
03-16-2019, 03:08 AM
Biggest nobu problem is stam!!!

If jiang jun can regen stam with stance why not nobu ?!?