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View Full Version : Deathball/Gank solution



DrinkinMyStella
05-24-2018, 10:44 AM
I noticed how ubi swiftly brushed these discussions under the carpet and started to ignore this issue. The last Warriors den I don't recall any chat about fixing the death ball meta. Dominion is the most played game mode and quickest to get into but its also so horribly ruined by parties of 3 or 4 and there sole purpose is to form a gank squad and get into a spawn trapping position with all points captured, its easy enough playing solo to get into a unplanned gank squad but its torture playing against this. I play solo and my W/L is horrific and its not to do with matchmaking so much anymore but to do with death balls btw I don't care about W/L but thats proof that playing solo in dominion has a really negative effect, low W/L means slower progression and I want to rep up quicker and feel a sense of achievement after a game, I can take an L when the match was close and when there isn't a gank squad roaming together at all times. I would say 80% of my games have a party on the opposition that are purposely using the death ball/spawn trapping method because they can, there is nothing to stop them and there is nothing to help the team who are on the receiving end of a deathball squad. Now yes this has always been an issue but with the reworks, new heroes, unblockables etc is a major issue and causes solo players really unsatisfactory gaming. A few things to suggest:

-Change respawn timers by half
-Flip spawns
-Random spawns
-New version of 4v4 No parties allowed
-Increase Revenge Defence till backup arrives
-Implement a spawn barrier to avoid spawn trapping
-if the teams are breaking then spawn barrier opens incase people camp there

These simple change could fix a major issue.

btw yes I know there has been multiple threads on this but if you want change then we need to voice it and I know most of you agree this is an issue. There was a deathball thread that ubi as sticky but conveniently disappeared.

Please let me know your thoughts.

Kryltic
05-24-2018, 11:12 AM
Boost revenge when in 1vs3 or 1vs4. Make death balling a risk rather than a reward.

Larger maps exclusively for Dominion and remove smaller ones from Dominion. Give these maps more objectives but larger breaking scores.

Increase friendly fire and punish those who continously hit friendlies.


Finally... STOP FEEDING THE DEATH BALL!! There's nothing more annoying than idiots who run into the death ball one at a time while ignoring the objectives. Its boring having to run into the minions, kill them all then sit on the other objective so we dont fall behind because everyone else is trying to play Skirmish.

CandleInTheDark
05-24-2018, 03:47 PM
I noticed how ubi swiftly brushed these discussions under the carpet and started to ignore this issue. The last Warriors den I don't recall any chat about fixing the death ball meta. Dominion is the most played game mode and quickest to get into but its also so horribly ruined by parties of 3 or 4 and there sole purpose is to form a gank squad and get into a spawn trapping position with all points captured, its easy enough playing solo to get into a unplanned gank squad but its torture playing against this. I play solo and my W/L is horrific and its not to do with matchmaking so much anymore but to do with death balls btw I don't care about W/L but thats proof that playing solo in dominion has a really negative effect, low W/L means slower progression and I want to rep up quicker and feel a sense of achievement after a game, I can take an L when the match was close and when there isn't a gank squad roaming together at all times. I would say 80% of my games have a party on the opposition that are purposely using the death ball/spawn trapping method because they can, there is nothing to stop them and there is nothing to help the team who are on the receiving end of a deathball squad. Now yes this has always been an issue but with the reworks, new heroes, unblockables etc is a major issue and causes solo players really unsatisfactory gaming. A few things to suggest:

-Change respawn timers by half
-Flip spawns
-Random spawns
-New version of 4v4 No parties allowed
-Increase Revenge Defence till backup arrives
-Implement a spawn barrier to avoid spawn trapping
-if the teams are breaking then spawn barrier opens incase people camp there

These simple change could fix a major issue.

btw yes I know there has been multiple threads on this but if you want change then we need to voice it and I know most of you agree this is an issue. There was a deathball thread that ubi as sticky but conveniently disappeared.

Please let me know your thoughts.

Agreed with everything except revenge changes (honestly I'd rather tone it back), no parties, sure so long as rewards are the same in the no parties game as the regular. 4v1 being strong is not the problem, it is basic math and someone should not be expecting to walk out of that unless they are very skilled, the problem is that on the smaller maps there is no way of punishing that, it is objective based play that needs a rework not xv1.

Spawn flipping or random spawn I do think is needed, or even giving players the choice to spawn in a certain area or with a team mate, that prevents spawn camping, but the best ways to change dominion are, in my view, larger maps (deathballs can be punished if a team plays smart even in the current setup) and making it so that there are areas on these maps that either benefit the team more than kills having a player on it or hinder a team if they do not have a player there or if only the other team have a player there. At the moment not boosting a zone just means one permanent point less a second but they can make that up or come close to making it up killing as quickly as they are able on smaller maps and that is why it has become so effective.

Not voted because in my view it is the wrong question, deathballing is fine in skirmish or elimination, objective is to kill your opponents and with the skirmish respawn changes it doesn't snowball while elimination should be any means necessary, it's that it is more effective than playing the objective in objective based games that is the issue in my view. In before anyone (not necessarily op, pretty sure he is more reasonable than this but it is an argument I have come to expect if more on reddit than here) claims I must be someone who deathballs if I am saying this, actually I am more often the 1 in 1vx because I actually boost zones.

SpaceJim12
05-24-2018, 04:21 PM
Spawn flipping or random spawn I do think is needed, or even giving players the choice to spawn in a certain area or with a team mate, that prevents spawn camping, but the best ways to change dominion are, in my view, larger maps (deathballs can be punished if a team plays smart even in the current setup) and making it so that there are areas on these maps that either benefit the team more than kills having a player on it or hinder a team if they do not have a player there or if only the other team have a player there. At the moment not boosting a zone just means one permanent point less a second but they can make that up or come close to making it up killing as quickly as they are able on smaller maps and that is why it has become so effective.


Agreed. Battlefield games could help here. If your team have zone, you can respawn there (or around) to quick respond. It's something that could help regroup in Dominion.
Let's say, your team spawnlock on Sanctuary Bridge. The fastest of your team could go to opposite zone, capture it and team could respawn there, regroup and easily capture B.

I think the aim of this thread a little different, than voting.
DrinkinMehStella have a very good point. Devs start a big thread, made us think they ready to fix Dominion, and than just forget about it. Yes, possible devs could already started to do things, maybe in a middle of season 6 we will see big Dominion fix patch, but just skip this theme on Dens? That was rude. No word, no comment. Even if devs say Deathball is not a problem on top tier gamplay, we have some conversation about it already.=)
All community concur that Dominion not about objectives now and need to be fixed. And posts like that should remind them about it.

CandleInTheDark
05-24-2018, 04:32 PM
Agreed. Battlefield games could help here. If your team have zone, you can respawn there (or around) to quick respond. It's something that could help regroup in Dominion.
Let's say, your team spawnlock on Sanctuary Bridge. The fastest of your team could go to opposite zone, capture it and team could respawn there, regroup and easily capture B.

I think the aim of this thread a little different, than voting.
DrinkinMehStella have a very good point. Devs start a big thread, made us think they ready to fix Dominion, and than just forget about it. Yes, possible devs could already started to do things, maybe in a middle of season 6 we will see big Dominion fix patch, but just skip this theme on Dens? That was rude. No word, no comment. Even if devs say Deathball is not a problem on top tier gamplay, we have some conversation about it already.=)
All community concur that Dominion not about objectives now and need to be fixed. And posts like that should remind them about it.

Yeah Battlefield is what I was thinking with that.

And yeah certainly I get that it isn't just about voting, it was a point that in my view deathballing alone is not the issue and that 4v4 (given one of the answers is 4v4 is fine) covers a range of games, two of which I believe it is an appropriate tactic and fine in the balance of when the objective is kill your opponents before/more than they kill you, but that is arguing semantics, I do agree that dominion needs changes that help fix how effective deathballing is while making it deeper tactically so that it is a change good for all tiers..

DrinkinMyStella
05-24-2018, 04:51 PM
Thanks for the feedback guys, really sorry I should have reworded most of my post and the title to mention that its dominion I am talking about and possibly tribute which I find less ganky. some of the story maps are perfect for dominion, just using a portion of the story maps would be a good size for dominion. Like some one mentioned maybe having more elaborate quick chat for consoles so we can communicate better while playing solo

SpaceJim12
05-24-2018, 05:15 PM
And yeah certainly I get that it isn't just about voting, it was a point that in my view deathballing alone is not the issue and that 4v4 (given one of the answers is 4v4 is fine) covers a range of games, two of which I believe it is an appropriate tactic and fine in the balance of when the objective is kill your opponents before/more than they kill you, but that is arguing semantics, I do agree that dominion needs changes that help fix how effective deathballing is while making it deeper tactically so that it is a change good for all tiers..

I remembered Heroes of the Storm, where some kind of gunk exist as well. But there anytime could happend some objective event, or one good specialist push line alone. And exp that go to team helps a lot. So mostly in HotS, gameplay goes to team fight around obectives.
But I agree that we don't need revenge buff, we don't need gods who can easily stand agains four enemies. I'm ok with being killed by multiple enemies ifit's bring time and points to my team. But unfortunatly for now gunk brings points mostly to deathball team. They fast open feats, become even harder to deal with. And worst thing is you should group up as well, if you want to win or stay alive. So it's become to endlessly teamfight. In the zone in best case.

Vakris_One
05-24-2018, 05:32 PM
I do like the idea of choosing to spawn on a point that your team has captured and is not being contested at that time. It gives a strategic purpose to capturing points and puts the objective above getting kills in this supposedly objective based game mode. I concurr with Candle that 1vX isn't the problem rather it is the lack of strategy and objective based gameplay.

The more incentives they give people to play the objectives the better for the quality of the Dominion experience. Capturing points should mean something more than just have 1 extra renown per second. Just look at Tribute and why gank squads aren't an issue there. That's because the objectives matter more than just getting singular kills from running around and ganking opponents. Killing someone in tribute doesn't give you a source of renown, capturing and deploying the flags does - THAT'S how you make an objective based mode!

More people should migrate to Tribute and starve Dominion of players for a bit if we really want the devs to notice that objectives should matter more than kills in an objective based mode.

Wobbleshnort
05-24-2018, 05:51 PM
Dominion is more popular than tribute. Why do you think that is? Is it really that much more fun to run with flags on big maps than to fight? I'd like to reduce deathballing, but NOT by reducing fighting. It's a fighting game!

Running around in For Honor is less fun than fighting. Please don't make the maps bigger just to make getting to the objective slower. That accomplishes the goal in a way that makes the game less fun.

The solution should also not be to make squatting on an objective by yourself more rewarding. Again, the game should not revolve around NOT fighting.

So how do we make teams spread out and have small, more even fights? The issue is deathballing, not that people are fighting.

Just increase the penalty for gank kills. Don't turn my favorite game mode into a run with flags mode. We have one of those.

Vakris_One
05-24-2018, 06:25 PM
There's plenty of fighting going on in Tribute. What do you think happens when a team has captured 2 or 3 flags? If you're looking for just a non-stop fight then Skirmish is the place to find it or Carousel of Death before they unfortunately remove it.

The point is there is no strategy left in Dominion anymore. It's just a Team Deathmatch nowadays with the objectives there only as pure window dressing. Team Deathmatch is fine and all but we already have that mode and it's called Skirmish. Do we really need 2 Deathmatch modes that do pretty much the exact same thing give or take a couple minion captains?

BTTrinity
05-24-2018, 07:53 PM
I do like the idea of choosing to spawn on a point that your team has captured and is not being contested at that time. It gives a strategic purpose to capturing points and puts the objective above getting kills in this supposedly objective based game mode. I concurr with Candle that 1vX isn't the problem rather it is the lack of strategy and objective based gameplay.

I also like this idea, and agree with you and candle.... I can handle being outnumbered, its the fact that the only viable strategy is deathball..... Objectives mean nothing :(


The more incentives they give people to play the objectives the better for the quality of the Dominion experience. Capturing points should mean something more than just have 1 extra renown per second. Just look at Tribute and why gank squads aren't an issue there. That's because the objectives matter more than just getting singular kills from running around and ganking opponents. Killing someone in tribute doesn't give you a source of renown, capturing and deploying the flags does - THAT'S how you make an objective based mode!

Tru, I used to hate Tribute but soon realized its the superior 4v4 game mode because its not a glorified skirmish disguised as an objective game mode.

UbiJurassic
05-24-2018, 09:07 PM
I noticed how ubi swiftly brushed these discussions under the carpet and started to ignore this issue. The last Warriors den I don't recall any chat about fixing the death ball meta.

A few weeks ago, we made sure to make dedicated feedback threads regarding deathball meta and ganking, and all those comments were promptly forwarded before the thread was unpinned. I definitely wouldn't say we're looking to sweep the problem under the rug, but rather we don't have any news about it to share at this time. Damien did mention during today's stream that the team is taking a look at Revenge adjustments, which is something the community was vocal about when talking about deathball/ganking. There's no new changes to announce at this time about it or how we'll looking to change it, but as always we'll be looking to get that news to everyone as it becomes available.

Vordred
05-24-2018, 10:12 PM
the spawning on point is interesting, would also allow for much bigger maps, as once the match starts would lower the amount of running about too

DrinkinMyStella
05-25-2018, 09:39 AM
A few weeks ago, we made sure to make dedicated feedback threads regarding deathball meta and ganking, and all those comments were promptly forwarded before the thread was unpinned. I definitely wouldn't say we're looking to sweep the problem under the rug, but rather we don't have any news about it to share at this time. Damien did mention during today's stream that the team is taking a look at Revenge adjustments, which is something the community was vocal about when talking about deathball/ganking. There's no new changes to announce at this time about it or how we'll looking to change it, but as always we'll be looking to get that news to everyone as it becomes available.

ahh ok thanks for clearing that up, Im glad it its on the radar, its just sometimes if you go quiet about a issue then were going to assume its being ignored and when the discussion got unpinned it just looked bit shady. I appreciate you don't want to go to much into something without concrete changes.