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View Full Version : For those who think IL2 miss a lot of planes...



mistral_73
08-29-2005, 01:55 PM
We all know and agree that IL2 (I mean the IL2 series FB+AEP+PF) is very incomplete , major planes are missing, etc., etc. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif but just have a look :

http://www.screenshotart.com/index.php?s=f479fda6f5bd59...h&type=post&id=23697 (http://www.screenshotart.com/index.php?s=f479fda6f5bd59893e880e14dfbb7ec0&act=Attach&type=post&id=23697)

Gigantic congrats to Flatlander, the uber human able to do this!

(and Flatlander, if you read this post, can you please share the mission file that you used to take this screenshot? I'd like to have an "external" view on your impressive work !)

Mistral

mistral_73
08-29-2005, 01:55 PM
We all know and agree that IL2 (I mean the IL2 series FB+AEP+PF) is very incomplete , major planes are missing, etc., etc. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif but just have a look :

http://www.screenshotart.com/index.php?s=f479fda6f5bd59...h&type=post&id=23697 (http://www.screenshotart.com/index.php?s=f479fda6f5bd59893e880e14dfbb7ec0&act=A ttach&type=post&id=23697)

Gigantic congrats to Flatlander, the uber human able to do this!

(and Flatlander, if you read this post, can you please share the mission file that you used to take this screenshot? I'd like to have an "external" view on your impressive work !)

Mistral

womenfly
08-29-2005, 02:00 PM
WOW! ... I guess we all need to sit back and be thankful. Never looked at it this way ... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

ashley2005
08-29-2005, 02:07 PM
people should stop whining and be thankful for what theyve got .. go play anoyher sim if you dont like it and i bet you come crying back..in other sims you only get like 13 planes ..compared to this thats nothing so think before you post

mistral_73
08-29-2005, 02:19 PM
>people should stop whining and be thankful for what theyve got
>go play anoyher sim if you dont like it and i bet you come crying back..

Hey Ashley, don't count me in... My tone was ironic, of course!

I'll add a smiley to avoid another misunderstanding...

Mistral

felbeast
08-29-2005, 03:24 PM
That would sure be fun to bomb and straf

MLudner
08-29-2005, 04:53 PM
The variety of aircraft available is 66% of the reason I fly in this game over all others. Though, it just so happened that just before I blundered into Il-2 Sturmovik in a CompUSA I had thought it would be kind of cool if someone would put out an Eastern Front CFS. Viola, there is was.

BM357_Hbent
08-29-2005, 06:57 PM
I could do with half of that if it meant that they were all flyable.

ashley2005
08-29-2005, 07:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mistral_73:
&gt;people should stop whining and be thankful for what theyve got
&gt;go play anoyher sim if you dont like it and i bet you come crying back..

Hey Ashley, don't count me in... My tone was ironic, of course!

I'll add a smiley to avoid another misunderstanding...

Mistral </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i wasnt directing it to you i was directing it to people that complain about not having enough planes and right flight models etc etc http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

faelas
08-29-2005, 09:03 PM
1. Nobody has ever posted to my knowledge that there aren't enough planes in the IL2 series. They have said that some influential and popular planes are inexplicably missing and they are correct.

2. I disagree that we should all just be happy with what we have. That's a load of ****. IL2 would never have been made at all if Oleg had just been happy with what he had. So there.

3. Human history is replete with occasions when small minds told creative visionaries to shut up and be content with what they have. They have always been wrong and they are still wrong today.

4. Imaginative people with positive intentions and a justifiably strong sense of devotion to this great series have repeatedly asked for some fan favorites that many, many people would enjoy having in the game. That does not mean that they are not grateful for what does exist, or do not appriciate the incredible game that we have already as some here have repeatedly implied in rebuttal to their plea for more. Wanting more is not the same as saying we don't care about all the incredible milestones that Oleg has set, it means we are encouraged by them to dare to hope for even more, something impossible before IL2 existed.

Realize that there is nothing wrong with wanting more, or wanting your favorite. When you don't want anything more from life then you may as well die. When nothing more is added to the IL2 series, it too will begin to die.



Edited for spelling errors. I hate misspelling words!

IL2-chuter
08-30-2005, 01:50 AM
Hear, hear.


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

TC_Stele
08-30-2005, 10:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by felbeast:
That would sure be fun to bomb and straf </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My exact sentiments.

Yeah. The team has truley made a lot of effort in putting together what they could for this simulator. I've seen planes I've never even heard of.

fordfan25
08-30-2005, 11:55 PM
*Ford gives every one in this thread a pat on the back and a cookie*

Waldo.Pepper
08-31-2005, 02:39 AM
I don't think PF is missing a lot of planes at all.

In fact I may not buy Oleg's BOB because of the limited planeset.

However, some think that PF is missing some CRITICAL planes (and some other objects) that kill the game in the minds of some players.

FritzGryphon
08-31-2005, 04:00 AM
There'll always be planes that are percieved as 'critical' by some, regardless of what ends up in the game. This is because, due to the wide array of theatres, there's far too many planes that could be made. Modeling one would end up with cries to model others for balance, and s forth. A never ending spiral, one that ends up with mounds of half-finished content by mismatched quality standards, most of which your average player will never use, much less appreciate. And tonnes of little bugs that might never be found, much less fixed.

BoB, being more specific to one theatre (and one with relatively few planes), has far more chance of being complete. Even with fewer planes, you'll end up with a much more comprehensive experience.

Certainly not the gaping holes that the adventure from Russia to Europe to the Pacifc created.

WOLFMondo
08-31-2005, 04:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
In fact I may not buy Oleg's BOB because of the limited planeset. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The planes will be limited at first but the list will grow. I will buy it, not because I want to fly in the battle of britain but for the future projects which will build on BoB.

avimimus
08-31-2005, 07:18 AM
Whenever I think of the HS-123 and all the other missing details, then I think of the Fw-190 and how it was once AI only.
Then I am happy.

ashley2005
08-31-2005, 08:11 AM
with people asking for updates all the time dont get mad when BOB gets delayed all the time as it will be your own faults for asking for il2 updates http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Punkfriday
08-31-2005, 08:23 AM
hey ford, that cookie tastes pretty good! what's in there, chocolate chip?

flatlander5
08-31-2005, 09:48 AM
Hey Mistral_73

Thanks for the sentiments. The image didn't win, place or show over at ScreenShotArt, but thats OK. The message seems to have gotten across. IL2 rocks!


The file is on my home computer, so I'll post it here asap.

I had to take the screenshot in FMB because the mission file would not load. Even in FMB the frame rate was excrutiatingly slow (I have 1.5 of Ram).

I guess with the latest patch pending I'll have to update the mission file soon.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
~Flatlander

tigertalon
08-31-2005, 03:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by felbeast:
That would sure be fun to bomb and straf </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you own a rig that would show over 1 fps when rocketing this? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Then you must me a very happy person.

Bearcat99
08-31-2005, 08:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mistral_73:
We all know and agree that IL2 (I mean the IL2 series FB+AEP+PF) is very incomplete , major planes are missing, etc., etc. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif but just have a look :
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont think missing at the most 5 planes to really round out the sim is very incomplete.... toss in an Avenger, a flyable B-17, and a few other flyable torp bombers and I think this sim would be as close to perfect as a sim can get given today's technology.

Mjollnir111675
08-31-2005, 08:59 PM
Yes Bearcat,

Throw in those few planes, namely the torp planes and the Avenger, and then you'll have ppl wanting what is needed to actually make the planes worth having.

That is fleet expansion for all sides , evasive maneuvering (A.I.) for said fleets and the planes proper load outs as well. Lest we forget the maps as well.

I personally dont find solace in the fact that BoB is a theatre of which there is a smaller set of planes because we all know they will expand on that engine into other theatres and whats gonna happen then? The same ole hoops for which they cant add certain planes yet again?

I believe the fact is a PTO sim will never be complete for one reason or another. Its truly sad for whatever reason they have, have not or otherwise. Whether it may be trade issues, lack of intell, inadequate fleet A.I. or just no interest in having them.

I believe there is enough demand for these planes to warrant plenty of capital (from fans alone) to fund their appearance. If'n thats still the reason for their exclusion.

But yes I agree barring the fleet expansion & A.I. improvement that those few planes would get this sim "as close to perfect as a sim can get.."

"Avenger IS New Il-2 Be sure but let us give 2 weeks!" -Oleg


Late,

Nimits
08-31-2005, 09:57 PM
No one has ever complained that there aren't enough planes in IL-2. In fact, quite honestly, there's probably too many of them. Many of the planes we have serve no useful, historical purpose. The problem, there is no rhyme or reason to the planeset, other than the "that looks cool" "there aren't enough pictures of this plane's cockpit, so we won't bother doing it." We have an Bf-109Z, an Il-2I, and a half dozen experimental aircraft that saw zero service in WWII, but no flyable TBF or B5N, and no TBD, SB2C, D4Y, B6N, B-26, or Do-17 at all. We have wonderful Hawk 81s, but no China or Burma maps and no Ki-27s, or Ki-21s.

We have a nice Tirpitz, but no Norwegian map to use it or RAF or RN bombers to attack it with, 3 versions of the King George V class, but no US or IJN battleships. We have 3 versions of the Lexinton class (despite only 2 being built), but only 2 Essex (though 15 saw service), and no Yorktowns or Wasp. We have 2 CVEs that, because of game engine limitations, border on useless, but no CVLs (which were much more prominant in the battles we can represent in PF). Meanwhile, light carriers, cruisers, and subs, as well as the innumerable small craft, supports vessels, tenders, patrol boats, and barges that were so common to the PTO are completely MIA for the IJN.

We have maps of Normandy, but none with the Channel coast bases for the Allies to fly out of, and no maps of northwestern Europe at all. We have two maps of Guadalcanal, yet neither includes the islands to the northwest that played such an important role in operations there. We have a map of New Guinea that doesn't include Lae, proabably the most important airfield on that island besides Port Moresby, we have a map of Hawai that looks like it was transplanted from the Black Sea, and we have no representation of the upper Solomons, New Britain, or the Carolines at all.

While the Russian Front has been done very well and features enough maps and planes to at least reasonable represent combat there, the rest of the FB series has been cobbled together in a completely haphazard, illogical and incomplete fashion. All in all, Il-2FB and PF are the most extensive, most expansive, most promising, most incomplete, and most unfullfillin sim ever created.

LeadSpitter_
09-01-2005, 01:05 AM
look 2-6 varients of the same planetype does not count as new aircraft in my book, I consider the varients as 1 aircraft.

Yes we get more ac then any other wwii flightsim included in game many more then any flight sim ever released But we pay for it $100 bucks for this title. FB AEP PF, sure its more then worth it and we all know it compairs to nothing in the last couple years even despite its flaws.

If you call people wanting planesets for historical missions and online play whining your wrong. We are missing important flyable carrier based torpedo bombers among many other essential ac you are most likely one of those people who have a favorite plane and just fly that and makes you happy.

Each nation definatly should have 3-5 fighter types by year early, mid, then late, then a couple name changes and performance value changes for addition varients of same plane, 1-2 single engine bomber with rear gunner, 1-2 twin engine bomber and at least 1, 4 engine bomber for all nations flyable. Thats what I think anyways and to be fair for all sides.

SeaNorris
09-01-2005, 04:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But we pay for it $100 bucks for this title. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No one asks you to. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Philipscdrw
09-01-2005, 07:03 AM
I started to make a similar composition, but got bored and started to attack it with rockets. Then June came around and the computer went into a box, then the flight yoke didn't fit on the desk. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WTE_Tigger
09-01-2005, 07:41 AM
Well said Faelas.

S!

WOLFMondo
09-01-2005, 08:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nimits:
No one has ever complained that there aren't enough planes in IL-2. In fact, quite honestly, there's probably too many of them. Many of the planes we have serve no useful, historical purpose. The problem, there is no rhyme or reason to the planeset, other than the "that looks cool" "there aren't enough pictures of this plane's cockpit, so we won't bother doing it." We have an Bf-109Z, an Il-2I, and a half dozen experimental aircraft that saw zero service in WWII, but no flyable TBF or B5N, and no TBD, SB2C, D4Y, B6N, B-26, or Do-17 at all. We have wonderful Hawk 81s, but no China or Burma maps and no Ki-27s, or Ki-21s.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This has been covered a bizzilliion times before. Its down to the modellers. I think the Go229 was one that Oleg wanted to do (please correct me if I'm wrong) but the rest where what third party modellers wanted to make.

The absolute be all and end all is, if you want a plane in the game then you have to make it or get someone to make it or join a team and make it and then once done submit it to Oleg and if it meets there standards then he'll put it in the sim. Thats the reason for some of the fantasy planes.

As for the rest, licensing, third party and in house modellers. Some of these planes take over a year to build, thats paying a 3d modeller for 1 year to build 1 plane.

Do the math, 1C:Maddox is a business and needs to pay its staff, theres only a given amount of work that can be put in before the cut off point, theres only a limited number of resources and time you can put on a project. Building 30 planes requires 30 people for a year, as well as all the systems time, software licences, programmers, in house testing, even the electricity bill, it all adds up and I think some people forget that.

SlickStick
09-01-2005, 09:05 AM
Oooh, I'll be awaiting that mission file. Looks fun to check out. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Mjollnir111675
09-01-2005, 09:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:

This has been covered a bizzilliion times before. Its down to the modellers. I think the Go229 was one that Oleg wanted to do (please correct me if I'm wrong) but the rest where what third party modellers wanted to make. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok well that clears it up then!!

So its the 3rd party modellers who decide what planes go and which planes remain left out?

So the dog is being led around by his tail then huh?

So then who is really making the sim? We know who actually programs it but are you saying that a boat load of talent by some(very talented) modellers are the ones who , if they do well enough a job, finally decide the plane set?

Is it me or is this theory/practice seriously flawed?

So who has the references on each theatre? Who in Hades is actually doing the research?

Who is the deciding individual who says 'No, first we must concentrate on planes that actually saw service?'. If there is one to begin with?

Regardless of talent there should be a set group of a/c that should be required as absolutely integral to a specific theatre before accepting excellent renditions of what if A/C.

" Hey we have an excellent model of a '43 Foo Fighter that will be released in next patch/installment but no &lt;insert absolutely important Real Life Theatre Specific A/C&gt; 'cuz noone has modelled it."

Oleg needs to put out a list of the no brainer A/C first and when and only when that is accomplished should he even bat a lash at some what if's!!

And I also believe most if not all ppl here concerned know about basic business and the needs thereof.

Electric bills? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Late,

WOLFMondo
09-01-2005, 10:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mjollnir111675:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:

This has been covered a bizzilliion times before. Its down to the modellers. I think the Go229 was one that Oleg wanted to do (please correct me if I'm wrong) but the rest where what third party modellers wanted to make. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok well that clears it up then!!

So its the 3rd party modellers who decide what planes go and which planes remain left out?

So the dog is being led around by his tail then huh?

So then who is really making the sim? We know who actually programs it but are you saying that a boat load of talent by some(very talented) modellers are the ones who , if they do well enough a job, finally decide the plane set?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

One extreme to another. Oleg and team made planes they deemed most needed and then third party modellers got to put there names next to planes. Some built some and there in, some built some and there not.

Its down to who finished there models to the correct standards. No modeller decided the plane set but if the plane met the standard Oleg put it in.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mjollnir111675:
Is it me or is this theory/practice seriously flawed?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, because thats not the practice. You need to visit some of the other community sites and read up on how the division of models worked out before you can sit and judge the situation.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mjollnir111675:
So who has the references on each theatre? Who in Hades is actually doing the research?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The modellers built the planes, put them to the scrutiny of the modelling community and Oleg and team programmed them. Belive me, if theres a mistake on a model it gets noticed and generally fixed.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mjollnir111675:

Who is the deciding individual who says 'No, first we must concentrate on planes that actually saw service?'. If there is one to begin with?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I assume when IL2 was originally designed Oleg and team did but since then its down to modellers as well as his team. This has been discussed a million times.

Since there are models there of a good quality why not put them in. Its not like the majority of important aircraft have not been put in but there is a limit to resources.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mjollnir111675:

Regardless of talent there should be a set group of a/c that should be required as absolutely integral to a specific theatre before accepting excellent renditions of what if A/C.

" Hey we have an excellent model of a '43 Foo Fighter that will be released in next patch/installment but no &lt;insert absolutely important Real Life Theatre Specific A/C&gt; 'cuz noone has modelled it."
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Go to netwings and ask a modeller to model it or better yet do it yourselfhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. Someone like Gibbage could probably explain/rant about this for a long time but I guess he's bored of that since this has come up a million times before.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mjollnir111675:

Oleg needs to put out a list of the no brainer A/C first and when and only when that is accomplished should he even bat a lash at some what if's!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again, when your dealing with people who want to make they planes they want to this is probably hard to enforce since they will make the ones they want or Oleg won't get any more planes in his sim.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mjollnir111675:
And I also believe most if not all ppl here concerned know about basic business and the needs thereof.

Electric bills? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It seems some are not, some seem to think Oleg and team and modellers can conjure up time and money for what is essentially something that will make absolutly no money for 1C:Maddox or Ubisoft. All those patches with extra planes and content cost money to produce and host but they make no money from them, you won't meet your margins that way.

When you get your electricty bill adding upto 30,000 - 40,000 (like the business where I work with 200 people) a year it becomes a massive consideration. 40,000 is allot of money by anyone standards. In the Uk thats 1300+ full price units of PF but at the price it fell to after its release thats over 4000 units. Quite allot for a niche product.

flatlander5
09-01-2005, 10:33 AM
For mistral_73 and anyone else interested...

I called the file Oleg.mis, but you can drop it into a text file and cal it waht you want.
Good luck with your frame rates!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


[MAIN]
MAP Berlin/load.ini
TIME 9.5
CloudType 0
CloudHeight 1500.0
army 1
playerNum 0
[Wing]
r0100
[r0100]
Planes 1
Skill 1
Class air.A_20G
Fuel 100
weapons default
[r0100_Way]
NORMFLY 43543.50 80497.18 500.00 300.00 &0
[NStationary]
0_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$A_20G 1 46794.82 40858.89 405.00 0.0 us
1_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$TBM3AVENGER3 1 46778.81 40859.14 405.00 0.0 us
2_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$B_17D 1 46789.17 40928.08 405.00 0.0 us
3_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$B_17E 1 46768.26 40915.78 405.00 0.0 gb
4_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$B_17F 1 46753.20 40893.34 405.00 0.0 us
5_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$B_17G 1 46731.06 40880.25 405.00 0.0 us
6_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$B_24J100 1 46717.34 40857.81 405.00 0.0 us
7_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$B_29 1 46692.63 40832.91 405.00 0.0 us
8_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$B_25C25 1 46660.91 40814.82 390.00 0.0 us
9_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$B_25G1 1 46647.99 40804.98 390.00 0.0 gb
10_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$B_25H1 1 46636.62 40794.22 390.00 0.0 rz
11_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$B_25J1 1 46623.34 40779.50 390.00 0.0 gb
12_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$BEAU21 1 46762.47 40795.89 405.00 0.0 gb
13_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$BI_1 1 46645.72 40788.24 405.00 0.0 null
14_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$C_47 1 46605.68 40756.49 405.00 0.0 gb
15_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$F4UCORSAIR1 1 46654.99 40776.19 405.00 0.0 us
16_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$F4UCORSAIR2 1 46658.68 40785.72 405.00 0.0 us
17_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$F4UCORSAIR4 1 46669.24 40789.62 405.00 0.0 us
18_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$IL_4_DB3B 1 46687.06 40801.30 405.00 0.0 null
19_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$IL_4_DB3M 1 46702.44 40809.91 405.00 0.0 null
20_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$IL_4_DB3T 1 46710.74 40824.05 405.00 0.0 null
21_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$IL_4_DB3F 1 46724.92 40830.46 405.00 0.0 null
22_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$F2A2 1 46732.60 40847.98 405.00 0.0 gb
23_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$F4F3 1 46740.89 40862.53 405.00 0.0 us
24_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$F4F4 1 46749.19 40865.91 405.00 0.0 us
25_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$F4F_FM2 1 46760.25 40870.83 405.00 0.0 us
26_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$F4U1A 1 46663.49 40767.48 405.00 0.0 us
27_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$F4U1C 1 46667.80 40777.32 405.00 0.0 us
28_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$F4U1D 1 46678.55 40779.47 405.00 0.0 us
29_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$F6F3 1 46750.39 40851.45 405.00 0.0 us
30_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$F6F5 1 46761.45 40856.37 405.00 0.0 us
31_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$G_11 1 46771.10 40889.78 405.00 0.0 null
32_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_40SUKAISVOLOCHHAWKA2 1 46766.70 40838.59 405.00 0.0 gb
33_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$HurricaneMkIIb 1 46788.50 40904.87 405.00 0.0 gb
34_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$HurricaneMkIIc 1 46797.11 40908.87 405.00 0.0 gb
35_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$HurricaneMkIIbMod 1 46800.80 40916.86 405.00 0.0 fr
36_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$I_153_M62 1 46816.48 40930.08 405.00 0.0 null
37_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$I_153P 1 46825.70 40931.62 405.00 0.0 null
38_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$I_16TYPE18 1 46813.09 40920.86 405.00 0.0 null
39_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$I_16TYPE24 1 46822.01 40923.01 405.00 0.0 null
40_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$I_185M71 1 46825.70 40945.45 405.00 0.0 null
41_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$I_185M82A 1 46834.61 40948.22 405.00 0.0 null
42_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$IL_2_1940Early 1 46847.59 40909.36 434.10 0.0 null
43_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$IL_2_1940Late 1 46837.52 40899.73 434.10 0.0 null
44_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$IL_2_1941Early 1 46827.46 40890.10 434.10 0.0 null
45_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$IL_2_1941Late 1 46816.96 40882.23 434.10 0.0 null
46_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$IL_2I 1 46807.77 40872.16 434.10 0.0 null
47_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$IL_2MEarly 1 46859.84 40901.48 434.10 0.0 null
48_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$IL_2MLate 1 46848.90 40891.42 434.10 0.0 null
49_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$IL_2T 1 46838.40 40880.48 434.10 0.0 null
50_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$IL_2Type3 1 46828.77 40871.73 434.10 0.0 null
51_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$IL_2Type3M 1 46819.58 40862.10 434.10 0.0 null
52_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$IL_4_IL4 1 46722.66 40812.43 405.00 0.0 null
53_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$LAGG_3SERIES4 1 46793.59 40887.50 405.00 0.0 null
54_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$LAGG_3SERIES29 1 46801.03 40894.50 405.00 0.0 null
55_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$LAGG_3SERIES35 1 46808.47 40901.07 405.00 0.0 null
56_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$LAGG_3IT 1 46816.35 40907.63 405.00 0.0 null
57_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$LAGG_3SERIES66 1 46824.27 40911.88 405.00 0.0 null
58_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$LA_5 1 46804.00 40849.94 405.00 0.0 null
59_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$LA_5F 1 46791.61 40832.68 405.00 0.0 null
60_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$LA_5FN 1 46794.66 40840.43 405.00 0.0 null
61_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$LA_7 1 46801.47 40842.87 405.00 0.0 null
62_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$LA_7B20 1 46811.36 40852.57 405.00 0.0 null
63_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$LI_2 1 46623.96 40737.90 405.00 0.0 null
64_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$MBR_2AM34 1 46779.24 40873.55 405.00 0.0 null
65_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$MIG_3EARLY 1 46845.24 40938.97 495.00 0.0 null
66_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$MIG_3UD 1 46854.48 40934.85 495.00 0.0 null
67_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$MIG_3UB 1 46847.63 40929.03 495.00 0.0 null
68_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$MIG_3SHVAK 1 46858.59 40925.61 495.00 0.0 null
69_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$MIG_3AM38 1 46867.50 40921.50 495.00 0.0 null
70_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$MIG_3U 1 46872.98 40912.93 495.00 0.0 null
71_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_11C 1 46717.77 40798.80 405.00 0.0 pl
72_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_36A3 1 46776.02 40832.71 405.00 0.0 fr
73_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_36A4 1 46775.29 40842.65 405.00 0.0 fr
74_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_38J 1 46773.31 40817.09 405.00 0.0 us
75_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_38L 1 46760.28 40810.01 405.00 0.0 null
76_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_39D1 1 46741.53 40794.23 315.00 0.0 us
77_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_39D2 1 46729.88 40795.15 245.00 0.0 us
78_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_39N 1 46723.29 40784.26 524.10 0.0 us
79_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_39Q1 1 46744.51 40783.26 380.00 0.0 us
80_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_39Q10 1 46734.45 40777.32 449.10 0.0 us
81_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_400 1 46707.93 40787.61 405.00 0.0 us
82_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_40SUKAISVOLOCHB 1 46704.96 40770.92 405.00 0.0 us
83_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_40SUKAISVOLOCHC 1 46696.73 40767.49 405.00 0.0 gb
84_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_40E 1 46688.27 40763.37 405.00 0.0 null
85_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_40EM105 1 46683.93 40754.69 405.00 0.0 us
86_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_40M 1 46694.67 40754.46 405.00 0.0 null
87_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_47D10 1 46666.10 40748.97 405.00 0.0 us
88_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_47D22 1 46656.04 40744.17 405.00 0.0 us
89_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_47D27 1 46644.92 40739.99 405.00 0.0 us
90_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_51B 1 46721.60 40763.88 405.00 0.0 gb
91_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_51C 1 46712.69 40759.54 405.00 0.0 us
92_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_51D5NT 1 46708.80 40751.08 405.00 0.0 us
93_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_51D20NA 1 46720.92 40751.31 405.00 0.0 gb
94_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_63C 1 46692.84 40786.77 405.00 0.0 us
95_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$PBN1 1 46805.56 40954.41 404.10 0.0 us
96_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$PE_2SERIES1 1 46667.45 40703.30 405.00 0.0 null
97_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$PE_2SERIES84 1 46656.48 40714.04 405.00 0.0 null
98_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$PE_2SERIES110 1 46668.59 40718.61 405.00 0.0 null
99_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$PE_2SERIES359 1 46674.31 40730.27 405.00 0.0 null
100_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$PE_3SERIES1 1 46686.20 40734.61 405.00 0.0 null
101_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$PE_3BIS 1 46683.91 40719.53 405.00 0.0 null
102_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$PE_8 1 46745.40 40830.17 405.00 0.0 null
103_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$R_10 1 46739.91 40807.97 405.00 0.0 null
104_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$SB_2M103 1 46760.69 40780.31 405.00 0.0 null
105_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$SB_2M100A 1 46742.65 40762.48 405.00 0.0 null
106_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$SBD3 1 46704.47 40733.44 405.00 0.0 us
107_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$SBD5 1 46713.39 40737.79 405.00 0.0 us
108_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$SEAFIRE3 1 46778.29 40798.15 405.00 0.0 gb
109_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$SEAFIRE3F 1 46786.64 40803.07 405.00 0.0 rz
110_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$SPITFIRE5B 1 46791.35 40812.28 405.00 0.0 gb
111_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$SPITFIRE5BCLP 1 46799.92 40816.77 405.00 0.0 gb
112_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$SPITFIRE5BLF 1 46805.27 40825.34 405.00 0.0 gb
113_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$SPITFIRE5BLFCLP 1 46814.05 40830.90 405.00 0.0 gb
114_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$SPITFIRE8 1 46819.19 40839.47 405.00 0.0 gb
115_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$SPITFIRE8CLP 1 46828.18 40844.82 405.00 0.0 gb
116_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$SPITFIRE9C 1 46833.10 40853.38 405.00 0.0 gb
117_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$SPITFIRE9CCLP 1 46841.88 40858.74 405.00 0.0 gb
118_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$SPITFIRE9E 1 46846.16 40867.09 405.00 0.0 gb
119_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$SPITFIRE9ECLP 1 46854.72 40871.80 405.00 0.0 rz
120_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$SPITFIRE9EHF 1 46859.65 40879.72 405.00 0.0 gb
121_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$SU_2 1 46636.84 40673.77 405.00 0.0 null
122_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$TB_3_4M_17 1 46587.19 40729.61 405.00 0.0 null
124_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$TBF1 1 46639.83 40774.46 405.00 0.0 us
125_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$TBM3 1 46626.17 40761.11 405.00 0.0 us
126_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$TBM3 1 46640.16 40761.39 405.00 0.0 us
128_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_40SUKAISVOLOCH2B 1 46642.11 40700.31 405.00 0.0 gb
123_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$TB_3_4M_34R 1 46606.89 40707.77 405.00 0.0 null
129_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$TU_2S 1 46614.51 40691.01 405.00 0.0 null
130_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$U_2VS 1 46628.67 40688.91 405.00 0.0 null
131_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$YAK_1 1 46735.75 40744.82 405.00 0.0 null
132_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$YAK_1B 1 46731.15 40737.86 405.00 0.0 null
133_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$YAK_3 1 46723.84 40733.36 405.00 0.0 null
134_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$YAK_3P 1 46719.76 40726.33 405.00 0.0 null
135_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$YAK_7A 1 46711.46 40723.10 405.00 0.0 null
136_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$YAK_7B 1 46707.74 40716.07 405.00 0.0 null
137_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$YAK_9 1 46701.13 40710.73 405.00 0.0 null
138_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$YAK_9B 1 46697.69 40703.41 405.00 0.0 null
139_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$YAK_9D 1 46689.88 40699.55 405.00 0.0 null
140_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$YAK_9M 1 46686.51 40692.10 405.00 0.0 null
141_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$YAK_9K 1 46678.56 40688.23 405.00 0.0 null
142_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$YAK_9T 1 46669.86 40684.93 405.00 0.0 null
143_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$YAK_9U 1 46667.39 40676.70 405.00 0.0 null
144_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$YAK_9UT 1 46659.14 40673.99 405.00 0.0 null
127_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_40SUKAISVOLOCH2A 1 46633.51 40703.78 405.00 0.0 gb
145_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$P_80A 1 46649.51 40687.94 405.00 0.0 null
146_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$A6M2 2 46899.81 40876.80 225.00 0.0 ja
147_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$A6M2_21 2 46895.45 40867.18 225.00 0.0 ja
148_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$A6M2N 2 46885.83 40862.82 225.00 0.0 ja
149_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$A6M3 2 46880.26 40852.59 225.00 0.0 ja
150_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$A6M5 2 46892.14 40841.76 225.00 0.0 ja
151_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$A6M5A 2 46897.25 40851.84 225.00 0.0 ja
152_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$A6M5B 2 46907.03 40857.40 225.00 0.0 ja
153_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$A6M5C 2 46910.56 40866.22 225.00 0.0 ja
154_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$A6M7_62 2 46917.18 40850.28 225.00 0.0 ja
155_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$A6M7_63 2 46907.70 40840.96 225.00 0.0 ja
156_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$AR_196A3 2 46808.53 40774.77 225.00 0.0 null
157_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$B5N2 2 46872.52 40837.95 225.00 0.0 ja
159_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$G4M1_11 2 46855.07 40833.14 225.00 0.0 ja
160_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$H8K1 2 46908.46 40823.82 225.00 0.0 ja
158_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$D3A1 2 46881.69 40828.33 225.00 0.0 ja
161_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$KI_43_IA 2 46868.30 40817.05 270.00 0.0 ja
162_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$KI_43_IB 2 46855.90 40811.09 225.00 0.0 ja
163_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$KI_43_IC 2 46880.71 40809.58 330.00 0.0 ja
164_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$KI_43_II 2 46859.96 40796.05 490.00 0.0 ja
165_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$KI_43_IIKAI 2 46875.30 40795.90 420.00 0.0 ja
166_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$KI_46_OTSU 2 46821.92 40800.56 225.00 0.0 ja
167_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$KI_46_OTSUHEI 2 46835.31 40799.08 225.00 0.0 ja
168_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$KI_46_RECCE 2 46830.95 40789.14 225.00 0.0 ja
169_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$KI_61_IKO 2 46832.91 40823.14 225.00 0.0 ja
170_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$KI_61_IHEI 2 46835.31 40813.07 225.00 0.0 ja
171_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$KI_61_IOTSU 2 46823.13 40818.18 225.00 0.0 ja
172_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$KI_84_IA 2 46899.29 40797.16 225.00 0.0 ja
173_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$KI_84_IB 2 46890.89 40788.07 225.00 0.0 ja
174_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$KI_84_IC 2 46882.32 40778.79 225.00 0.0 ja
175_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$L2D 2 46866.76 40777.66 225.00 0.0 ja
176_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$N1K1J 2 46918.65 40881.41 495.00 0.0 ja
177_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$N1K1JA 2 46930.90 40869.69 495.00 0.0 ja
178_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$F2A_B239 2 46821.61 40774.14 225.00 0.0 fi
179_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$BF_109E4 2 46785.99 40759.28 225.00 0.0 null
180_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$BF_109E4B 2 46782.45 40751.77 225.00 0.0 null
181_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$BF_109E7 2 46775.07 40747.62 225.00 0.0 null
182_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$BF_109E7NZ 2 46771.62 40740.10 225.00 0.0 null
183_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$BF_109F2 2 46763.54 40736.24 225.00 0.0 null
184_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$BF_109F4 2 46760.58 40728.57 225.00 0.0 null
185_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$BF_109G2 2 46752.85 40725.48 225.00 0.0 null
186_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$BF_109G6 2 46749.55 40717.11 225.00 0.0 null
187_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$BF_109G6AS 2 46741.25 40713.95 225.00 0.0 null
188_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$BF_109G6Late 2 46737.74 40705.86 225.00 0.0 null
189_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$BF_109G10 2 46729.72 40702.49 225.00 0.0 null
190_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$BF_109G14 2 46726.28 40695.18 225.00 0.0 null
191_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$BF_109K4 2 46718.68 40691.31 225.00 0.0 null
192_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$BF_109Z 2 46713.48 40681.61 225.00 0.0 null
193_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$BF_110C4 2 46799.65 40746.79 225.00 0.0 null
194_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$BF_110C4B 2 46809.84 40736.53 225.00 0.0 null
195_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$BF_110G2 2 46818.73 40726.14 225.00 0.0 null
196_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$FI_156 2 46803.84 40761.34 225.00 0.0 null
197_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$F2A_B239 1 46637.75 40722.48 405.00 0.0 us
198_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$BLENHEIM1 2 46820.73 40759.02 225.00 0.0 fi
199_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$BLENHEIM4 2 46831.33 40747.11 225.00 0.0 fi
200_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$G50 2 46835.20 40775.02 225.00 0.0 fi
201_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$GLADIATOR1 2 46838.70 40759.89 225.00 0.0 fi
202_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$GLADIATOR2 2 46845.13 40752.98 225.00 0.0 fi
203_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$HurricaneMkIa 2 46816.91 40786.45 225.00 0.0 fi
204_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$FW_189A2 2 46792.59 40773.39 225.00 0.0 null
205_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$FW_190A4 2 46785.84 40736.92 225.00 0.0 null
206_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$FW_190A5 2 46776.60 40727.35 225.00 0.0 null
207_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$FW_190A6 2 46766.68 40718.14 225.00 0.0 null
208_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$FW_190A8 2 46757.05 40708.37 225.00 0.0 null
209_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$FW_190A9 2 46747.35 40698.39 225.00 0.0 null
210_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$FW_190D9 2 46738.14 40689.03 225.00 0.0 null
211_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$FW_190D9LATE 2 46730.06 40680.53 225.00 0.0 null
212_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$TA_152H1 2 46708.83 40666.47 225.00 0.0 null
213_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$FW_190F8 2 46721.34 40671.11 225.00 0.0 null
214_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$FW_200C3U4 2 46726.96 40654.38 225.00 0.0 null
215_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$CR_42 2 46796.78 40701.88 225.00 0.0 it
216_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$GO_229A1 2 46669.83 40646.14 225.00 0.0 null
217_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$HE_111H2 2 46794.18 40720.05 225.00 0.0 null
218_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$HE_111H6 2 46777.29 40703.29 225.00 0.0 null
219_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$HE_111Z 2 46755.58 40681.33 225.00 0.0 null
220_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$HE_162A2 2 46696.08 40616.45 225.00 0.0 null
221_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$HS_129B2 2 46833.97 40731.14 225.00 0.0 null
222_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$HS_129B3Wa 2 46842.60 40722.81 225.00 0.0 null
223_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$IAR_80 2 46852.89 40741.04 225.00 0.0 ro
224_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$IAR_81A 2 46861.52 40744.18 225.00 0.0 ro
225_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$IAR_81C 2 46856.82 40732.61 225.00 0.0 ro
226_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$GLADIATOR1J8A 2 46847.89 40761.73 225.00 0.0 fi
227_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$JU_52_3MG4E 2 46880.15 40758.59 225.00 0.0 null
228_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$JU_52_3MG5E 2 46896.62 40742.91 225.00 0.0 null
229_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$JU_87B2 2 46856.42 40708.30 225.00 0.0 null
230_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$JU_87D3 2 46867.11 40718.89 225.00 0.0 null
231_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$JU_87D5 2 46876.42 40709.87 225.00 0.0 null
232_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$JU_87G1 2 46865.44 40698.89 225.00 0.0 null
233_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$JU_88A4 2 46693.07 40665.99 225.00 0.0 null
234_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$MC_202 2 46779.91 40684.36 225.00 0.0 it
235_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$ME_163B1A 2 46675.57 40640.09 225.00 0.0 null
236_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$ME_210CA1 2 46708.17 40631.97 225.00 0.0 null
237_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$ME_210CA1ZSTR 2 46702.47 40644.35 225.00 0.0 null
238_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$ME_262A1A 2 46676.27 40628.05 225.00 0.0 null
239_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$ME_262A1AU4 2 46685.60 40637.17 225.00 0.0 null
240_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$ME_262A2A 2 46686.40 40627.04 225.00 0.0 null
241_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$ME_321 2 46644.45 40607.43 225.00 0.0 null
242_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$ME_323 2 46618.50 40630.95 225.00 0.0 null
243_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$MS406 2 46829.88 40715.10 225.00 0.0 fi
244_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$MS410 2 46836.91 40708.23 225.00 0.0 fi
245_Static vehicles.planes.Plane$MSMORKO 2 46843.49 40701.25 225.00 0.0 fi
[Buildings]
[Bridge]
[House]

**********************
Cheers,
~Flatlander

Mjollnir111675
09-01-2005, 01:16 PM
WOLFMondo,

Thanks for the civil reply.

I am satisfied with all explanations with maybe the exception of one.

That being the enforcement of planes that 'ppl just want to make'.

I dont see how that is so hard to enforce. After all it is Olegs sim right?

All that is needed is a check list that absolutely has to be finished before any others are considered whether or not they are up to or surpass the communities standards. This checklist should be made up with the help of the community and that list would need fulfilled before all others are considered. But if there is an alternative method so be it.

And when I asked about who in hades was doing the research it wasn't about a planes particular details,quality or what not but on an overall theatres plane set. I am sure the community does pick over each submittd model with a fine toothed comb. And all the better for that too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Anyway, Thank You WOLF.

Late,

SlickStick
09-01-2005, 04:08 PM
Thanks for posting that, flatlander5! I see a ton of work went into that and I appreciate you posting the mission. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

It'll be a great start as I just copied the complete V4.01 list from the mission builder's forum, including all the AI and "Ace AI" versions and I am going to add them to the mission at home. (Not a criticism about your fine work or anything, I just noticed that some of the newer planes were not included in your mission is all and I want one with every available plane http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif).

Willey
09-01-2005, 05:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by felbeast:
That would sure be fun to bomb and straf </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif One Mistel http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

http://www.ubisoft.de/smileys/3.gif

Nimits
09-01-2005, 06:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Nimits:
No one has ever complained that there aren't enough planes in IL-2. In fact, quite honestly, there's probably too many of them. Many of the planes we have serve no useful, historical purpose. The problem, there is no rhyme or reason to the planeset, other than the "that looks cool" "there aren't enough pictures of this plane's cockpit, so we won't bother doing it." We have an Bf-109Z, an Il-2I, and a half dozen experimental aircraft that saw zero service in WWII, but no flyable TBF or B5N, and no TBD, SB2C, D4Y, B6N, B-26, or Do-17 at all. We have wonderful Hawk 81s, but no China or Burma maps and no Ki-27s, or Ki-21s.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This has been covered a bizzilliion times before. Its down to the modellers. I think the Go229 was one that Oleg wanted to do (please correct me if I'm wrong) but the rest where what third party modellers wanted to make.

The absolute be all and end all is, if you want a plane in the game then you have to make it or get someone to make it or join a team and make it and then once done submit it to Oleg and if it meets there standards then he'll put it in the sim. Thats the reason for some of the fantasy planes.

As for the rest, licensing, third party and in house modellers. Some of these planes take over a year to build, thats paying a 3d modeller for 1 year to build 1 plane.

Do the math, 1C:Maddox is a business and needs to pay its staff, theres only a given amount of work that can be put in before the cut off point, theres only a limited number of resources and time you can put on a project. Building 30 planes requires 30 people for a year, as well as all the systems time, software licences, programmers, in house testing, even the electricity bill, it all adds up and I think some people forget that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I realize Oleg has limited control over what people build, but at the same time, what control he has he has failed to use properly. He nixed flyable TBDs and B5Ns, simply because he determined there wasn't enough extant info to model the cockpits correctly, yet I am sure at least 9 out of 10 would have been more than happy to get a flyable TBD with some guesswork in the cockpit, rather than no TBD at all. Nor is there any visibile evidence that Maddox or anyone else has encouraged any sane development strategy, instead, meekly submitting to the whims of the builders. He could have said long ago, "we need a Do-17, a TBD, and a flyable Hs-123; if you want to help with those great, if not fine, but we aren't going to take time away from important planes to fit in screwups like the Go-229." Obviously they made a concious choice not to follow this route, and the end result is more planes overall, but a lower quality of selection and the absence of many important types. If they took the time they had to use adapting the several goofy user-made wonder-weapons we have now and dedicated it to building one or two much needed planes or ships (such as a flyable Avenger, SB2C, or Mogami cruiser), alot of us would be much happier. Who knows, if work on PF had been more organized and focused, maybe the Avenger cockpit and Yorktown might have been finished soon enough to slip past the Grumman extortion scheme like the Wildcats and Hellcats evidently did.

WOLFMondo
09-02-2005, 03:20 AM
I guess the license issue was a mistake and overlooked by various parties.

I think as far as Oleg not putting planes in because theres too little info is his personal strive for perfection. He didn't want planes in that where not 100% accurate. I can respect that.

stansdds
09-02-2005, 04:12 AM
If Oleg only wanted planes that were 100% correct, then why does the Corsair I and F4U-1A have drop tank and bomb pylons and loadouts that were only available on the -1C/D and later variants? And why on the -1C/D is the inboard rocket mounted on the main spar and not the outer wing section?

Hoatee
09-02-2005, 05:03 AM
It could be worse.

At the beginning of this year, WWIIonline had paratroopers added to it - great stuff.

What planes were used to fly them around in? On the Axis side Ju52's. On the Allied side....Ju52's!?. C47 to be modelled....'soon'.

WOLFMondo
09-02-2005, 05:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stansdds:
If Oleg only wanted planes that were 100% correct, then why does the Corsair I and F4U-1A have drop tank and bomb pylons and loadouts that were only available on the -1C/D and later variants? And why on the -1C/D is the inboard rocket mounted on the main spar and not the outer wing section? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dunno, ask Oleghttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Didn't the C/D version have some changes to fuel tanks in the outer wing section that meant the rocket pylons are moved inboard?

OldFox-1975
09-02-2005, 06:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">He nixed flyable TBDs and B5Ns, simply because he determined there wasn't enough extant info to model the cockpits correctly, yet I am sure at least 9 out of 10 would have been more than happy to get a flyable TBD with some guesswork in the cockpit, rather than no TBD at all. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would have taken one with slight inaccuracies to make up for the HUGE inaccuracy of using an IL-2 if I want to make a torpedo run!

This lack of cockpit info makes no sense to me, it was the same excuse used for the TBF too. We still have real flying TBFs around. Loads in museums too. To me, Pacific Fighters is only 75% finished and if you want to make money at your buisness and expect to keep the lights turned on you look after your customers. I use PF because it is the only modern option for WWII Pacific really, but until it is fixed I see no reason to sink money into the next Ubi WWII sim. Really if he didn't have the resources to do the project it should not have been taken on. We were told it could not all fit on 3 CDs and it will be all fixed in a few weeks after release. Apects of the Pacific Theater are done well. But there is a lot missing.

WOLFMondo
09-02-2005, 06:34 AM
The TBF can't be put in because of the license problem.

Apart from the next big patch your not going to see these 'fixes'. After that its BoB.

stansdds
09-02-2005, 01:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Didn't the C/D version have some changes to fuel tanks in the outer wing section that meant the rocket pylons are moved inboard? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The internal wing fuel cells were deleted after the end of the -1A series. Beginning with the -1C/D and all later variants two center section pylons, just to either side of the centerline, were added for use as bomb racks or drop tanks. No version of the Corsair had zero length 5 inch rocket launcing stubs attached to anything other than the outer wing panels.

I voiced this error during the developmental updates, but this was just one more thing that went ignored.

Nimits
09-02-2005, 01:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
I guess the license issue was a mistake and overlooked by various parties.

I think as far as Oleg not putting planes in because theres too little info is his personal strive for perfection. He didn't want planes in that where not 100% accurate. I can respect that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yet he took the time to model, largely based on proposed weapons and performance, rather than any actual combat, the Go-229 and the B-1 (yes, I know it was a testbed for the add-on process, but still . . .), and is evidently working on more of these ahistorical wunder-weapons. The policy is neither desirable or consistent.