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View Full Version : I don't know about Aramusha anymore...



RenegadeTX2000
05-04-2018, 02:15 AM
Man, Orochi looking real nice right now. I don't see the advantage of using Aramusha over him now. Welp, time to bandwagon on this man, gotta work from level 0

x6_Musashi_9x
05-04-2018, 08:07 AM
I play both rochi from day one the shinobi then aramusha all rep 20+ the learning curve from aramusha to rochi or shinobi hit the training arena you are going to have a bad day, it is a totally different style defense wise

DrinkinMyStella
05-04-2018, 09:20 AM
aramusha is quite bad anyway, he needs an opener and maybe some hyper armour because right now all they have to do is block.

Archaelion
05-04-2018, 09:22 AM
I've said it weeks ago. Aramusha needs a buff. He's a weaker berserker without hyper armor and ability to choose attack directions freely.

DrinkinMyStella
05-04-2018, 09:55 AM
the only thing aramusha is good at is 4v4 ganking because his heavies can be devastating but in a 1v1 basis he's not good, of course the right player can maybe play him well.

Specialkha
05-04-2018, 11:37 AM
the only thing aramusha is good at is 4v4 ganking because his heavies can be devastating but in a 1v1 basis he's not good, of course the right player can maybe play him well.

Nope, just block in the direction of the aramusha, and you are back in a 1v1 again.

BTTrinity
05-04-2018, 03:59 PM
Aramusha needs a few things.

Cant be GB'd out of zone attacks first hit

Deadly feint applied to zone

Ability to cancel heavy finishers into a dodge (This will allow him to use rushing wind if the opponent rolls out of his finisher)

Blade Blockade punishes need to be normalized:

Ring the bell damage buff to 18? (This will still be your go to punish)

Fury Unleashed guaranteed off ALL light attacks, including zones 500ms and faster

Then his UB isnt guaranteed off anything but is there to potentially start a mixup (For those who play him, its very good to just let one fly on minion point when surrounded, minions trigger a BB reaction as well)

Knight_Raime
05-04-2018, 04:07 PM
Aramusha's thing was always capitolizing on someones mistakes with full block and beating feint games with raw heavies.
comparing him to rochi though I get why you think the way you're thinking. both are counter attack heros. But rochi has always been about whiff punishing and quick decisive hits. Where as mushu is more about getting into his combo off of someones mistake.

Sneakly20
05-04-2018, 05:48 PM
Aramusha's thing was always capitolizing on someones mistakes with full block and beating feint games with raw heavies.
comparing him to rochi though I get why you think the way you're thinking. both are counter attack heros. But rochi has always been about whiff punishing and quick decisive hits. Where as mushu is more about getting into his combo off of someones mistake.

I would agree on mistake if the ara player can choose the adequate punish for said mistake. This and his ability to beat most feints. Problem is the last part about the combo and full block. Full block just isnít a good option to use in most cases logically but not saying itís a horrible move. You can get more out of a parry and B.B. has a recovery for some reason. Itís a nice option is some situations but to me the inconsistency in fury unleashed and the kick being able to dodged just turns me off to it. Especially since itís a quick timed move that can be GB and offers little reward for landing especially compared to the other full blocks and nobushiís hidden stance. Thatís my B.B. rant. Now the combo. After a certain level, combo with ara means nothing. Itís not about mixing it up. Itís about the whole combo being shut down by simply blocking. That and deadly feint gets you killed because of how easy it is to read. Ara doesnít need another unblockable but make his kick or ring the bell available otherwise. Like from heavy finisher as a mix up. Iím not sure how to help him without making another ď unblockable for everyoneĒ thing but thatís my two cents on the subject.

RenegadeTX2000
05-04-2018, 06:44 PM
Both of Orochis new buffed moves are better than Aramushas Blade Blockade...

Orochi Weave in and out attacks are just safer to use compared to BB and Orochis is more consistent. Also if Orochi goes for either storm rush or that other step back move and the opponent goes for a guard break, Orochi will always get the punish off because of the increase in speed. The guard break will bounce off orochi making the person that initiated the GB suffer a bounce back effect when a GB is initiated on an attacking opponent.

Aramusha just lacking more now compared to Orochi in terms of options in neutral.

RenegadeTX2000
05-04-2018, 06:45 PM
Aramusha needs a few things.

Cant be GB'd out of zone attacks first hit

Deadly feint applied to zone

Ability to cancel heavy finishers into a dodge (This will allow him to use rushing wind if the opponent rolls out of his finisher)

Blade Blockade punishes need to be normalized:

Ring the bell damage buff to 18? (This will still be your go to punish)

Fury Unleashed guaranteed off ALL light attacks, including zones 500ms and faster

Then his UB isnt guaranteed off anything but is there to potentially start a mixup (For those who play him, its very good to just let one fly on minion point when surrounded, minions trigger a BB reaction as well)

If this is what Aramusha gets, I'm co-maining him right beside Highlander.

The thing that made Aramusha so appealing is his constant attacking with lights and heavies and the speed at which he threw these attacks out. Now you have everybody with similar speed to Aramusha throwing attacks but not limited to one direction in a chain, Conqueror for example can do what he does but with mix ups. Also Berserker does the mix ups better than he does without the use of his unblockables.

Yeah you can change direction but it gets parried too much. maybe make it harder to predict to when he let's the move go on a deadly feint or a mix up? or increasing the speed to 400ms on a deadly feint? I dunno, something needs to change because now everybody has the same speed as him while attacking. and realistically you will only get 2 maybe 3 if you are lucky on a competent opponent.

EvoX.
05-04-2018, 07:11 PM
Aramusha needs an overhaul. BB is useless, deadly feints are blocked by pretty much any average PC player, mediocre dodges, HP, no opener, a single 400ms attack that always comes out from top, always after a side hit. Also worth mentioning, imo, is that he has the by far most difficult OOS punish to perform in the game.

Him and Centurion are the only DLC heroes that need one. Rest are either okay (Shinobi) or great (Shaman, HL, Gladiator).

BTTrinity
05-04-2018, 09:14 PM
If this is what Aramusha gets, I'm co-maining him right beside Highlander.

The thing that made Aramusha so appealing is his constant attacking with lights and heavies and the speed at which he threw these attacks out. Now you have everybody with similar speed to Aramusha throwing attacks but not limited to one direction in a chain, Conqueror for example can do what he does but with mix ups. Also Berserker does the mix ups better than he does without the use of his unblockables.

Yeah you can change direction but it gets parried too much. maybe make it harder to predict to when he let's the move go on a deadly feint or a mix up? or increasing the speed to 400ms on a deadly feint? I dunno, something needs to change because now everybody has the same speed as him while attacking. and realistically you will only get 2 maybe 3 if you are lucky on a competent opponent.

Imo I think hed be almost perfect if he got my list of changes AND 400ms feints.... His top heavy-finisher-deadly-feint is laughable at best, almost as slow as old Kensei's softfeint xD

Yeah Zerks mixup is insane compared to Aramusha..... Hyper armor, 400ms feints, not limited to attacking top, and then you have his fkn UB and deflect.... whats the trade off for all that? Slightly less damage? lol #balanced

But I definitely see where you're coming from with the orochi comparison, especially after watching that gameplay a few hours ago holy **** I cant decide which one I wanna play between him and PK (It'll probably be PK cuz I already have her at rep 5, along with Shino at rep 10, I dont want a third assassin to level lmao)


Aramusha needs an overhaul. BB is useless, deadly feints are blocked by pretty much any average PC player, mediocre dodges, HP, no opener, a single 400ms attack that always comes out from top, always after a side hit. Also worth mentioning, imo, is that he has the by far most difficult OOS punish to perform in the game.

Him and Centurion are the only DLC heroes that need one. Rest are either okay (Shinobi) or great (Shaman, HL, Gladiator).

I think his kit has potential, just right now its so undertuned its laughable.

At the same time, I do agree he and cent need looking at the most out of all the DLC heroes.

Yeah, his oos punish is something I still havent mastered even though I have him at rep 10

RenegadeTX2000
05-04-2018, 09:29 PM
Imo I think hed be almost perfect if he got my list of changes AND 400ms feints.... His top heavy-finisher-deadly-feint is laughable at best, almost as slow as old Kensei's softfeint xD

Yeah Zerks mixup is insane compared to Aramusha..... Hyper armor, 400ms feints, not limited to attacking top, and then you have his fkn UB and deflect.... whats the trade off for all that? Slightly less damage? lol #balanced

But I definitely see where you're coming from with the orochi comparison, especially after watching that gameplay a few hours ago holy **** I cant decide which one I wanna play between him and PK (It'll probably be PK cuz I already have her at rep 5, along with Shino at rep 10, I dont want a third assassin to level lmao)



I think his kit has potential, just right now its so undertuned its laughable.

At the same time, I do agree he and cent need looking at the most out of all the DLC heroes.

Yeah, his oos punish is something I still havent mastered even though I have him at rep 10

The only thing Aramusha has going for him is his confirm damage off side heavy into top light, deadly feint side light into top light chain. But I dislike the fact if he gets a wall throw his damage reduction on top light after side heavy.

Heck you can do side heavy, top heavy but the damage difference is non-existent. Aramusha makes me sad.

RenegadeTX2000
05-08-2018, 09:45 PM
Imo I think hed be almost perfect if he got my list of changes AND 400ms feints.... His top heavy-finisher-deadly-feint is laughable at best, almost as slow as old Kensei's softfeint xD

Yeah Zerks mixup is insane compared to Aramusha..... Hyper armor, 400ms feints, not limited to attacking top, and then you have his fkn UB and deflect.... whats the trade off for all that? Slightly less damage? lol #balanced

But I definitely see where you're coming from with the orochi comparison, especially after watching that gameplay a few hours ago holy **** I cant decide which one I wanna play between him and PK (It'll probably be PK cuz I already have her at rep 5, along with Shino at rep 10, I dont want a third assassin to level lmao)



I think his kit has potential, just right now its so undertuned its laughable.

At the same time, I do agree he and cent need looking at the most out of all the DLC heroes.

Yeah, his oos punish is something I still havent mastered even though I have him at rep 10

I was just thinking... I think what would make Aramusha a little bit cooler. it would be more of a gimmick like conqueror, but make it to where Aramusha can cancel his attacks into his blade blockade, like Conq. I feel like that would be cool. also make him more of a threat in gank fights. Also 2 handed sword fighters always fighting multiple people anyway, so him being one of the best multiple gank fighters would look good for him, which would further differentiate him from everybody else that would be viable to his mechanics making him a better pick vs other characters.

Anti Crowd controlling moves he can use to prevent his team from getting ran over... That's when I feel like Blade Blockade is at it's best. It's just you have to choose between using that or attacking, but if you added it into his mix ups, it would help that move actually be so much better and fit into his Quota.


EDIT:::

And to further make Blade Blockade more useful on top of cancelling attacks into it, make it to where you can cancel his whiffed recovery attacks into Blade Blockade. I feel if you did that to that move. It would actually be worth considering that Blade Blockade is a legit move to use. Same weaknesses... Just better opportunities to utilize that move.

Sneakly20
05-08-2018, 10:22 PM
I was just thinking... I think what would make Aramusha a little bit cooler. it would be more of a gimmick like conqueror, but make it to where Aramusha can cancel his attacks into his blade blockade, like Conq. I feel like that would be cool. also make him more of a threat in gank fights. Also 2 handed sword fighters always fighting multiple people anyway, so him being one of the best multiple gank fighters would look good for him, which would further differentiate him from everybody else that would be viable to his mechanics making him a better pick vs other characters.

Anti Crowd controlling moves he can use to prevent his team from getting ran over... That's when I feel like Blade Blockade is at it's best. It's just you have to choose between using that or attacking, but if you added it into his mix ups, it would help that move actually be so much better and fit into his Quota.


EDIT:::

And to further make Blade Blockade more useful on top of cancelling attacks into it, make it to where you can cancel his whiffed recovery attacks into Blade Blockade. I feel if you did that to that move. It would actually be worth considering that Blade Blockade is a legit move to use. Same weaknesses... Just better opportunities to utilize that move.

I donít think that will help as much as you think. It will help I assure you but anyone patient enough can get through it. Also if it was used for whiff recovery it would be only be used on zone or heavy finishers. Every other whiffed attack in his kit can be followed up with some other attack. I used to think that B.B. needs buffs but I think they should just work all of itís options it into his kit actually and leave fury unleashed as the only reward while making it guaranteed. He would feel so much better that way I think. It solves his problems without actually giving him anything new other than the fury unleashed being guaranteed. But thatís just my idea. Would definitely like to cancel attacks to blade blockade.

RenegadeTX2000
05-08-2018, 10:30 PM
I don’t think that will help as much as you think. It will help I assure you but anyone patient enough can get through it. Also if it was used for whiff recovery it would be only be used on zone or heavy finishers. Every other whiffed attack in his kit can be followed up with some other attack. I used to think that B.B. needs buffs but I think they should just work all of it’s options it into his kit actually and leave fury unleashed as the only reward while making it guaranteed. He would feel so much better that way I think. It solves his problems without actually giving him anything new other than the fury unleashed being guaranteed. But that’s just my idea. Would definitely like to cancel attacks to blade blockade.

I was talking about gank fighting and group fighting. He would be much better.. and since dual sword users are usually superior in group fights anyway, it would make sense he would have an edge in it. you'd think twice about just throwing attacks on him trying to kill him asap while he's attacking himself..

It would be effective in group fighting the same way how shinobis range fighting is effective in group fighting.

EDIT:

He would be sort of an anti crowd control character in a group scenario. Characters like Kensei and Nobushi that can sweep or attack multiple people with 1 attack would think twice before doing it while an Aramusha is present. His presence would make people respect space more, rather then disrupt it any chance they get.

HazelrahFirefly
05-09-2018, 02:45 AM
This thread makes me want to quit the game right now.

Sneakly20
05-09-2018, 05:12 AM
This thread makes me want to quit the game right now.

Then either quit or donít come back to this thread?

Anyway addressing renegade; no matter what a character canít influence the way players fight. People will still try to disrupt group fights because itís just how itís played right now. Crowd control right now is in the form of unblockables or similar. Blade blockade doesnít stop any of these and based on the system we play with without a certain amount of crowd control ( not saying that the stupid amount of unblockables rn is right) team fights would last forever because it would be revenge attack defend and GB. Not counting feats small skirmishes would be drawn out much farther. But back to my point

Aramusha needs something but blade blockade in a team fight canít get much better or worse than it is rn usage wise. Rewards for success are another story but ara needs more than something to help team alone. He needs help with duals as well.

RenegadeTX2000
05-09-2018, 08:42 PM
Then either quit or don’t come back to this thread?

Anyway addressing renegade; no matter what a character can’t influence the way players fight. People will still try to disrupt group fights because it’s just how it’s played right now. Crowd control right now is in the form of unblockables or similar. Blade blockade doesn’t stop any of these and based on the system we play with without a certain amount of crowd control ( not saying that the stupid amount of unblockables rn is right) team fights would last forever because it would be revenge attack defend and GB. Not counting feats small skirmishes would be drawn out much farther. But back to my point

Aramusha needs something but blade blockade in a team fight can’t get much better or worse than it is rn usage wise. Rewards for success are another story but ara needs more than something to help team alone. He needs help with duals as well.

But the change would certainly help in this aspect regardless... people won't allow Aramusha to just tee off on people because of his awesome change of focus in his attacks vs a group, somebody will attempt to stop him with a regular attack. Aramusha would flow a lot better in a 1v2 scenario with his top side, top side string while switching targets which wouldn't give time for characters to utilize their crowd control unblockables.

Honestly, I don't want Aramusha to resort to having unblockables in neutral outside of the zone mix up... If I had a say in it then I'd buff the speed of his attacks on deadly feint. 400ms side light and 300ms top light. When they are done in a string top, side, top side, they should be 400ms. The first light opener should stay 500ms.

If he goes for deadly feint, he should be able to cancel into forward dash to catch people trying to roll away or he can cancel into his blade blockade during group fights.

Same for his zone, he should have access to deadly feint and able to cancel into forward dash or blade blockade.

For his deadly feint top being 300ms if you block it, you get a free GB punish. and his deadly feint side light should be 400ms. That way people can't spam lights all day and actually have to consider using heavies during the chain.


Canceling strings into blade blockade and cancelling zones into blade blockade and whiffed attacks would be unique for him which would make that move actually worth something regardless if it doesn't effect the actual meta of which Sneakly20 is trying to talk about. It would be balanced in that case and wouldn't be mindblowingly op.

the cancels into forward dash would just help him keep the pressure up and to catch people rolling away.

I feel like he has the tools, it's just he needs it to be more tuned up.

RenegadeTX2000
05-09-2018, 08:52 PM
Right now, you either have unblockables, or fast attacks. and if your unblockables aren't usable in neutral like lawbringer and Shugoki... you're doomed lol

Sneakly20
05-09-2018, 08:59 PM
But the change would certainly help in this aspect regardless... people won't allow Aramusha to just tee off on people because of his awesome change of focus in his attacks vs a group, somebody will attempt to stop him with a regular attack. Aramusha would flow a lot better in a 1v2 scenario with his top side, top side string while switching targets which wouldn't give time for characters to utilize their crowd control unblockables.

Honestly, I don't want Aramusha to resort to having unblockables in neutral outside of the zone mix up... If I had a say in it then I'd buff the speed of his attacks on deadly feint. 400ms side light and 300ms top light. When they are done in a string top, side, top side, they should be 400ms. The first light opener should stay 500ms.

If he goes for deadly feint, he should be able to cancel into forward dash to catch people trying to roll away or he can cancel into his blade blockade during group fights.

Same for his zone, he should have access to deadly feint and able to cancel into forward dash or blade blockade.

For his deadly feint top being 300ms if you block it, you get a free GB punish. and his deadly feint side light should be 400ms. That way people can't spam lights all day and actually have to consider using heavies during the chain.


Canceling strings into blade blockade and cancelling zones into blade blockade and whiffed attacks would be unique for him which would make that move actually worth something regardless if it doesn't effect the actual meta of which Sneakly20 is trying to talk about. It would be balanced in that case and wouldn't be mindblowingly op.

the cancels into forward dash would just help him keep the pressure up and to catch people rolling away.

I feel like he has the tools, it's just he needs it to be more tuned up.

If an ara is switching targets with attacks (which they do anyway) a rational person would wait and block or parry. But while this is happing something else can be coming your way. Speeding up his deadly feint I agree with. 400 on the side with also being able to go to heavy. This would prevent a ďflash and parryĒ setup. As in any indication on deadly feint is a free parry. Absolutely no 300 ms attacks. Canít agree with you and Iím definitely against this. He should be able to deadly feint out of zone. That would be cool. But letís keep this simple. Weíre looking at this from an overall perspective of the game. We need to look at his dueling as well. So far speeding up his deadly feint and giving it to his zone is good.

RenegadeTX2000
05-10-2018, 01:43 AM
If an ara is switching targets with attacks (which they do anyway) a rational person would wait and block or parry. But while this is happing something else can be coming your way. Speeding up his deadly feint I agree with. 400 on the side with also being able to go to heavy. This would prevent a “flash and parry” setup. As in any indication on deadly feint is a free parry. Absolutely no 300 ms attacks. Can’t agree with you and I’m definitely against this. He should be able to deadly feint out of zone. That would be cool. But let’s keep this simple. We’re looking at this from an overall perspective of the game. We need to look at his dueling as well. So far speeding up his deadly feint and giving it to his zone is good.

if they come your way is which I proposed being able to cancel into blade blockade or a dashing maneuver. Btw when I mentioned forward dash, I also meant side ways as well. and this is during his attacks.

Check out Aramushas top heavy in neutral. You can immediately side dodge after whiffing. That should be for all his moves on hit or block. and when he deadly feints he can also cancel the dash.

For dueling, what do you want? outside of unblockables in neutral. tbh i'm trying to stay away from that for him.