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Knight_Raime
04-20-2018, 02:43 PM
I will update this thread with more thoughts either later this evening or tomorrow sometime once I have a bit more time put in. Anyway. I think overall the patch did a fair bit good. As someone who spent a load of time in the practice against isaac this new training arena was a very good decision. I really like all the information given to us. Stamina damage numbers especially. Was totally not expecting the contextual bonuses like CGB and parry timing. Very nice.

That being said I have some let downs. There is no OOS features. I have to trick the bot into those situations. Which I find surprising considering how big OOS punishing is for duels. Some of the hero presets are pretty meh as well. I could probably go through the entire roster and point out a mix up that should be in there for practice purposes. If I could actually fully dictate what the opponent does that wouldn't be too bad of a problem. But I can't. And finally my only other gripe with arena. No option for being ganked. Would be nice practice for those going into 4v4. And since these arena maps have brawl tied to them I don't see why this wasn't done.

Back dodge change seems...alright. I've heard it kinda screws over shinobi. But i've yet to try myself so I can't really say. Now all that needs to be done is give everyone 600ms side dodge recovery and 500ms forward dodge recovery. I would have preferred back dash recovery nerfed to 700ms but this change seems okay but i'll wait to get more experience before I really commit to a feeling on it.

After some discussing with some people that I know who have pc I've discovered that the lag compensation system doesn't get rid of delayed attacks being sped up. Which imo is a huge problem. And part of the reason why I wanted to quit. I'm on console so I don't know how effective the lag comp added in helps against instant GB's and zones. I get that this is something that's going to continually be worked on. But i'm still bummed. The devs at this point NEED to consider a latency kick option. Most games have this. I shouldn't fight against someone with 300+ ping.

I currently don't have a comment on the reflex guard fixes supposedly made. I need more playtime with it. A little on the unreasonable side I know. But I would have loved it if the devs brought in community members to make a quick meta video for each hero to add along side the basic and advanced videos. It also would have been nice if training had the option to simulate higher pings so you could get used to some of that. But I know that's unreasonable to ask. Though i'm really disappointed that the new training didn't really touch on some key features like punishes and how zone is actually used.

EDIT:

So I got some more play time in. Regarding reflex and it's ability to defend against "fast combos" I feel a difference. It's hard to quantify or put down in words. Animation ques can still screw you over if you're slow on the input. But overall I felt it became easier to defend against Aramusha's infinite light combo. I went into the arena against him on my zerker and set his only move to the infinite combo and gave him stam regen so he could spam to his hearts content.

I first just tried blocking everything on reaction and was about 70-80% successful with that.
I then tried to purposefully switch my guard to the side he was attacking late so i'd be hit mid switch and then reacting to the direction he was going to next. This worked less than my own pure reaction. about 50% of the time I managed to block the follow up.
Then I tried spamming my stance in all directions and alternating directions to simulate being hit at the earliest possible startup on switch animations and then blocking the follow up. I managed to do this easily very well. 85-90% successful block on the follow up hit.

I also tried all 3 of those situations when out of stamina. And was about the same. I also discovered that you can actually switch your guard really early after blocking/eating a hit to the next direction you absolutely know he's going and you're able to block it 100% of the time. Where as pre patch I couldn't switch early (from memory anyway.) Pre patch the only way I remember actually dealing with the combo was just not inputting anything at all if I ate a hit and then react blocking the follow up.

So I feel like I can say with some what confidence that if you're hit in the start up of your animation of switching to a stance you realistically can block the follow up. If you're hit mid switch or late switch it varies success wise. Also keep in mind that he still 100% gets a top light confirm if he's hit you with a side heavy or a deadly feinted side light hits you. It's been like that since he launched and it still hasn't changed.

I also think adding light into heavy combo was a very good change. it's a little early to tell but i've been landing my mix ups more often now with him. Good change UBI. cent is nearly perfect.

Tirik22x
04-20-2018, 03:02 PM
My only complaint is the button mapping absolute fail.

All we wanted was to be able to map zone to a single button.... annnnnd ya canít.

Knight_Raime
04-20-2018, 03:16 PM
My only complaint is the button mapping absolute fail.

All we wanted was to be able to map zone to a single button.... annnnnd ya can’t.

I mean I feel you. But it was still good to be able to do this. Now you can setup your controller in such a fashion that you will be able to dodge/cgb/ and other important things without having to take your thumb off your stance switching stick. Which is a really nice thing to have.

SpaceJim12
04-20-2018, 03:30 PM
After some discussing with some people that I know who have pc I've discovered that the lag compensation system doesn't get rid of delayed attacks being sped up. Which imo is a huge problem. And part of the reason why I wanted to quit. I'm on console so I don't know how effective the lag comp added in helps against instant GB's and zones. I get that this is something that's going to continually be worked on. But i'm still bummed. The devs at this point NEED to consider a latency kick option. Most games have this. I shouldn't fight against someone with 300+ ping.

It's disturbing to hear that feedback on lag compensation. I really hope that will help to improve fighting, without fantastic teleporting, magnetic strikes and all this.
Can't have chance to check it out myself.
And I agree there must be system of high ping kick from game. I remembred how my friend can't start a single match, cause have low FPS. PC upgrade helped to solve situation, but something like this must be implement to high ping players. And to make game comfortable for all, more servers needed in future.

Knight_Raime
04-20-2018, 03:58 PM
It's disturbing to hear that feedback on lag compensation. I really hope that will help to improve fighting, without fantastic teleporting, magnetic strikes and all this.
Can't have chance to check it out myself.
And I agree there must be system of high ping kick from game. I remembred how my friend can't start a single match, cause have low FPS. PC upgrade helped to solve situation, but something like this must be implement to high ping players. And to make game comfortable for all, more servers needed in future.

Yeah it's probably the biggest disappoint that came with the patch. The lag comp technically makes delayed hits slower. But not enough imo from what i've seen.
And i'm really surprised latency kick still isn't a thing. I think the game would feel better for most people if 300+ ping wasn't something people actively fought.

Tirik22x
04-20-2018, 04:23 PM
I mean I feel you. But it was still good to be able to do this. Now you can setup your controller in such a fashion that you will be able to dodge/cgb/ and other important things without having to take your thumb off your stance switching stick. Which is a really nice thing to have.

Oh. I doubt... but I would really like to be able to do my zone reliably. 😫

SpaceJim12
04-20-2018, 04:41 PM
Yeah it's probably the biggest disappoint that came with the patch. The lag comp technically makes delayed hits slower. But not enough imo from what i've seen.
And i'm really surprised latency kick still isn't a thing. I think the game would feel better for most people if 300+ ping wasn't something people actively fought.

Maybe it's cause of low playerbase. Maybe is something that planing while dedicated servers will be stable itself. I hope we hear and see a lot of changes due to Season 6.
Even after pretty good update I still think season 5 were almost empty, cause all we have came out in the start and now in the end of season.

Tirik22x
04-20-2018, 05:00 PM
Eh, havenít checked but I donít think I can kick with my Cent if I remap my GB to R3

HazelrahFirefly
04-20-2018, 05:03 PM
Can we map multiple buttons to a single function? I'm thinking of having heavy attack be both r2 and r3

BTTrinity
04-20-2018, 05:19 PM
Eh, haven’t checked but I don’t think I can kick with my Cent if I remap my GB to R3

I can with Nobu, you should be able to.


Can we map multiple buttons to a single function? I'm thinking of having heavy attack be both r2 and r3

No, you cant do this unfortunately.... It will switch the two around is the most you can do... If you bind heavy to R3, then your camera centering option will be R2

MumfordDaHound
04-20-2018, 05:36 PM
As far as zone attacks, do they consider it a "skill" to get it off correctly? That the reason they don't allow the change to 1 button? I personally have gotten better BUT by no means 100%

Tirik22x
04-20-2018, 05:40 PM
As far as zone attacks, do they consider it a "skill" to get it off correctly? That the reason they don't allow the change to 1 button? I personally have gotten better BUT by no means 100%

Itíll never be 100% until they make it 1 button. I canít for the ****ing life of me figure out why they didnít allow it to be remapped... it was the main reason ppl asked for remapping.

Blows my mind honestly.

EvoX.
04-20-2018, 06:11 PM
It's disturbing to hear that feedback on lag compensation. I really hope that will help to improve fighting, without fantastic teleporting, magnetic strikes and all this.

They are not even close to implementing stuff like this. That would be actual lag compensation, after all.

PepsiBeastin
04-20-2018, 07:16 PM
Shinobi can no longer Dodge backwards then dodge again and sideways or forward ( it turns into a roll). Seeing as dodges are his thing... kind of screws us over

Devils-_-legacy
04-20-2018, 07:23 PM
Only thing I like is the latency but seeing some one with a 450 just makes me think there using phone data

mrmistark
04-20-2018, 07:59 PM
I originally was going to add my two cents on a thread myself but saw this and feels like the perfect place to post my thoughts.

Things I like about the patch:
- Arena mode with things like parry timings and large text damage outputs. Itís super helpful to understand optimization and what attacks from which direction are stronger while being able to strongly experience the risks of why the damage is more in said situations in an enviorment where you can let everything rip. Looks great.

- controller remapping is pretty awesome. As someone who seconds HL, I always struggled with implementing light attacks while in OS as holding down the trigger with middle finger and pointer on light button feels highly unnatural. Remapping light attack to L3 has been seriously very helpful. On the same hand, the transition from moving guard to match and then over to the Gb button with my reflexes made it very hard to counter a good fient unless I presumed it was coming. I relied 90% on intuition and reading my opponent to save my butt. Moving CGB to R3 also has improved my play significantly. I need to practice and get the muscle memory down still, but if Iím concentrating my effectiveness is amplified tremendously.


Things that I am neutral about:
-lag comp: hopefully this is going well for PC players. Itís still very needed on console. I often times while being mid execute on a red liner just for us to teleport and me be almost dead.

- dodge: I didnít notice a change honestly. I didnít even realize there was a change for this. Iíll have to play PVP more to check it out.

- I havenít looked at new emotes or outfits yet either.


Things I donít like, ironically tying into what I do like:
-arena while being very helpful, is also lacking. You canít choose the enemies full kit it seems. A lv3 bot acts like a level 1, more like a .5 thatís how unhelpful they are. They rarely attack and tend to block the same direction. Other than beginner practice, testing gear, and damage tables the mode is pretty useless. I wish theyíd allow us to ACTUALLY fight.

-like many other said, zone canít be remapped to a single button thatíd be great, the way I have it set up almost makes it even a little harder, luckily I donít use zone much and the other remappings have made it benificial enough to completely not worry about zoning.

Knight_Raime
04-20-2018, 09:41 PM
Edited the OP with thoughts on reflex fixes and centurion opinion.

mrmistark
04-21-2018, 12:19 AM
Just got around to playing with the dodges. They should keep the changes only for OOS. It was fine previously in normal combat. Theyíre are some moves that feel impossible to dodge now because of it.

Knight_Raime
04-21-2018, 12:26 AM
Just got around to playing with the dodges. They should keep the changes only for OOS. It was fine previously in normal combat. They’re are some moves that feel impossible to dodge now because of it.

What attacks?