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View Full Version : Nothing but unblockables now



TuSkiLLd
04-18-2018, 03:02 AM
Came back after almost a year and a half and it seems like all the new characters are just instant unblockables. Is this really what the game is now? Unblockables and Dazes.

Charmzzz
04-18-2018, 07:41 AM
1. Alot of the old cast has "instant unblockables" too: Warlord Headbutt, Warden Shoulderbash, Conq Shieldbash, Lawbringer Shove to name a few.
2. Yes, the new cast has more unblockables overall. That was one attempt to stop the staring contests that were the Meta for a long time.
3. Unblockables are counterable and mostly punishable.

DrinkinMyStella
04-18-2018, 09:18 AM
I come back after about 4months or longer and noticed that you have to read your opponents a lot more now, its all about understanding the opp move-set and predicting what they will do next, gone of the days where you can just join a lobby and swing for your life, its a lot more strategic.

guor6800
04-18-2018, 09:59 AM
I come back after about 4months or longer and noticed that you have to read your opponents a lot more now, its all about understanding the opp move-set and predicting what they will do next, gone of the days where you can just join a lobby and swing for your life, its a lot more strategic.

Welcome back mate. Long time no see

DrinkinMyStella
04-18-2018, 10:37 AM
cheers fella, good to be back.

wolfman25br
04-18-2018, 02:05 PM
3. Unblockables are counterable and mostly punishable.

On duel yes its manageable, in 4x4 its too much, its a know issue, this plus the ganking meta.

4 x 4 (dominion) its not fun anymore.

SpaceJim12
04-18-2018, 02:17 PM
Well I still can have fun in 4v4 Dominion. Something where switched in my mind when I start leveling LB. Picture of this huge guy close up to scared gunkers, that try their best and still can't...magnificent!
I mean, after whole season on Glad I just feel myself parry God with LB.=)

OrangBall0fHate
04-19-2018, 12:59 AM
Came back after almost a year and a half and it seems like all the new characters are just instant unblockables. Is this really what the game is now? Unblockables and Dazes.

Feel the same way and I've been playing since the beta. Ubi wanted people to spend more money on the game so naturally the dlc heroes were way better than the og ones. Now that's the bar everyone gets their own spammy combo now with more unblockables and feints. Hooray year 2 "balancing"....

Charmzzz
04-19-2018, 07:21 AM
Feel the same way and I've been playing since the beta. Ubi wanted people to spend more money on the game so naturally the dlc heroes were way better than the og ones. Now that's the bar everyone gets their own spammy combo now with more unblockables and feints. Hooray year 2 "balancing"....

Uhm, no. The reworked original Characters are Top Tier right now (Zerker, Conq, Kensei). The DLC heroes were way better? Centurion was, got nerfed too late I have to admit. Shaman was too strong, got nerfed within 2 weeks after release. Gladiator and Shinobi were in pretty good spots balance wise on release. Highlander - Trash Tier until the tweaks in S5 were released.

You are talking trash my friend. ;)

OrangBall0fHate
04-19-2018, 12:04 PM
Uhm, no. The reworked original Characters are Top Tier right now (Zerker, Conq, Kensei). The DLC heroes were way better? Centurion was, got nerfed too late I have to admit. Shaman was too strong, got nerfed within 2 weeks after release. Gladiator and Shinobi were in pretty good spots balance wise on release. Highlander - Trash Tier until the tweaks in S5 were released.

You are talking trash my friend. ;)

Apparently you couldn't read the word "WERE"
As in when they were released. The following sentence stated "now that's the bar" so yeah a cpl og heroes are better now but it's due to the fact they had to be changed to keep up with the dlc heroes...
This is why there's no community in this game you mfs all thirsty to jump down someone's throat. Sucking yourself off over your own opinion. I am not your friend condescending ***.

Charmzzz
04-19-2018, 12:28 PM
Apparently you couldn't read the word "WERE"
As in when they were released. The following sentence stated "now that's the bar" so yeah a cpl og heroes are better now but it's due to the fact they had to be changed to keep up with the dlc heroes...
This is why there's no community in this game you mfs all thirsty to jump down someone's throat. Sucking yourself off over your own opinion. I am not your friend condescending ***.

I gave enough examples of balanced or even underpowered DLC Characters. Your argument still fails to be accurate because it was only true for 1 out of 6 heroes. You can rage all you want, I don't really care...

OrangBall0fHate
04-19-2018, 12:40 PM
I gave enough examples of balanced or even underpowered DLC Characters. Your argument still fails to be accurate because it was only true for 1 out of 6 heroes. You can rage all you want, I don't really care...

Your examples have nothing to do with what I was talking about. You misunderstood me and yet you take the condescending tone.. I wasn't arguing. Simply stating my opinion which you didn't care to read, obviously. Still felt compelled to jump off in your own completely different direction without even realizing it. Just because you think I'm raging doesn't actually mean I'm raging...

SpaceJim12
04-19-2018, 12:51 PM
Feel the same way and I've been playing since the beta. Ubi wanted people to spend more money on the game so naturally the dlc heroes were way better than the og ones. Now that's the bar everyone gets their own spammy combo now with more unblockables and feints. Hooray year 2 "balancing"....

You played since beta and never were in situation when from one side LB push you (or toss over shoulder) wich obviously UB and from other side Raider make his zone? Or this facinating situations with two-three or even four Goki? Come on!
While I agree about to much feints, that still can't help solve turtle meat at all, but UB...no, just no.

OrangBall0fHate
04-19-2018, 01:16 PM
You played since beta and never were in situation when from one side LB push you (or toss over shoulder) wich obviously UB and from other side Raider make his zone? Or this facinating situations with two-three or even four Goki? Come on!
While I agree about to much feints, that still can't help solve turtle meat at all, but UB...no, just no.

Oh no I completely agree thats happened to me at least a billion times since the beta. I don't think more UB will help but obviously that's not how Ubi sees it.

EvoX.
04-19-2018, 01:27 PM
Yep, welcome back to For Honor.

Though the absolute gankfests, unblockable spam and unbalanced feats are only issues in 4v4's, namely Dominion. Those don't really exist in Duel and Brawl, or at least they are perfectly manageable.

Once the entire cast is reworked (or whoever needs it), they should turn their attention to making 4v4's... well, not complete garbage. There have been countless of people who complain about them, and there have also been countless people who offered reasonable solutions. All the devs gotta do is actually try.

SpaceJim12
04-19-2018, 02:37 PM
Once the entire cast is reworked (or whoever needs it), they should turn their attention to making 4v4's... well, not complete garbage. There have been countless of people who complain about them, and there have also been countless people who offered reasonable solutions. All the devs gotta do is actually try.

I could agree and disagree with you. I really hope they start to rework Dominion cause this gamemode need it as hell. But I pretty fine with 60-70% matches in Dominion. And sometimes (10%, maybe) I just really enjoy it. When game gives me opponents of my level of skill, when no lags, or everybody have good connection aaaand this absolut cool. You can beat people, they can beat you, whole process looks like real medieval confrontation. I hope devs do something to bring more matches like this I described.

Tirik22x
04-19-2018, 03:20 PM
Whaaaat?! You donít enjoy getting killed in .8 seconds by two highlanders?

SpaceJim12
04-19-2018, 03:46 PM
Whaaaat?! You don’t enjoy getting killed in .8 seconds by two highlanders?

Well, from the real life experience I could say that two big dudes with heavy swords deffenetly could kill you instantly. And even if you have shield, I believe every their attacks will be unblockable to you. And even unparryable (what in real life sword fight are the same things, you know).
So...from this side I see realism in For Honor. The problem that we have is low player numbers. In real fight if that two guys crushing you so probably in next moment someone put down a halberd in their heads. It's rough and unfair, while in For Honor it's just working stategy.
I think we need add on minions everywhere around map! It will be more close to real medieval fights.

C4Phaze
04-19-2018, 04:36 PM
While I agree that the unblockables were introduced with the new characters was to speed up fights. Your other points fall flat as an argument to support the current unblock-able meta.

1. Yes the old cast had unblockables, however none of them destroy an opponent like the new dlc ones do. Warlord Headbutt never guaranteed a win. Its the fact it was so fast that people complained about it which has been addressed making it easily predictable. The warden shoulder-bash also doesn't guarantee a win. its easily read-able and doesn't do anything punishing that can't be countered. The lawbringers shove in its self again doesn't guarantee a win. The shove in itself doesn't do anything except, well, shove... its the LBs stupidly fast attacks that can follow afterwards that cause the annoyances and grievances. Conqueror shield bash was in a good state before the buff. The buff to make it more like the dlc unblockables has created the real problem as it can be abused to no end now and can guarantee a win in most encounters.

If you take the mechanics of all those unblockables from the core heroes and compare them to the dlc ones its pretty obvious that there is no real thinking involved with the dlc heroes. Centurion has the falcon punch which can guarantee wins due to it being a low risk / Extremely high reward move. (Knockdown, stun, and stamina drain regardless if the opponent has stamina or not, plus opening for a free high dmg pounce?) The same can be said for the gladiator unblockables, the dodge+shield bash move in on itself can win duels. add in the other unblockables and no further explanation is needed.

The point is, the new unblockables are a clear issue because they have been introduced without proper counters. That is why players are complaining about them, that is why nearly every single player who plays dlc heroes spam these like the world is on fire. The only way to counter these new unblockables is to dodge since most of them are not even parry-able. However, dodging is only a safe and viable option for assassin characters.

These new unblockables would be fine where they are at if the core heroes would have more viable options for countering them, but until each of them gets reworked they are an issue. Not to mention most of these are poorly designed. Take glads shield bash and toe stab. Why aren't these parry-able at least? The cents knockdown punch. Why does it stun, drain stam AND knockdown regardless if the opponent has stam or not?

Its pretty clear not much thought went into these.

TuSkiLLd
04-20-2018, 02:44 AM
his is my main point, you should have to combo into an unblockable not the other way around. I find myself trying to dodge only to find out that sometimes it's tracked or my dodge must be a unlock roll. Partner that with just being slammed to a or wall and because of close quarters and you almost have a 100-0 combo just because of the initial unblockables

Charmzzz
04-20-2018, 08:02 AM
While I agree that the unblockables were introduced with the new characters was to speed up fights. Your other points fall flat as an argument to support the current unblock-able meta.

1. Yes the old cast had unblockables, however none of them destroy an opponent like the new dlc ones do. Warlord Headbutt never guaranteed a win. Its the fact it was so fast that people complained about it which has been addressed making it easily predictable. The warden shoulder-bash also doesn't guarantee a win. its easily read-able and doesn't do anything punishing that can't be countered. The lawbringers shove in its self again doesn't guarantee a win. The shove in itself doesn't do anything except, well, shove... its the LBs stupidly fast attacks that can follow afterwards that cause the annoyances and grievances. Conqueror shield bash was in a good state before the buff. The buff to make it more like the dlc unblockables has created the real problem as it can be abused to no end now and can guarantee a win in most encounters.

If you take the mechanics of all those unblockables from the core heroes and compare them to the dlc ones its pretty obvious that there is no real thinking involved with the dlc heroes. Centurion has the falcon punch which can guarantee wins due to it being a low risk / Extremely high reward move. (Knockdown, stun, and stamina drain regardless if the opponent has stamina or not, plus opening for a free high dmg pounce?) The same can be said for the gladiator unblockables, the dodge+shield bash move in on itself can win duels. add in the other unblockables and no further explanation is needed.

The point is, the new unblockables are a clear issue because they have been introduced without proper counters. That is why players are complaining about them, that is why nearly every single player who plays dlc heroes spam these like the world is on fire. The only way to counter these new unblockables is to dodge since most of them are not even parry-able. However, dodging is only a safe and viable option for assassin characters.

These new unblockables would be fine where they are at if the core heroes would have more viable options for countering them, but until each of them gets reworked they are an issue. Not to mention most of these are poorly designed. Take glads shield bash and toe stab. Why aren't these parry-able at least? The cents knockdown punch. Why does it stun, drain stam AND knockdown regardless if the opponent has stam or not?

Its pretty clear not much thought went into these.

You seem to have no idea about the timings and punishes of all those attacks. I can enlighten you:
- WL Headbutt: 500ms for guaranteed 17 Damage and possibility to ledge, leads to an untechable GB if dodged by opponent
- Warden SB (got nerfed alot): 700ms for commited SB leading to guaranteed 24 Damage, first 400ms: can be canceled or canceled into GB for side heavy 30 Damage, max charge is 1200ms for guaranteed top heavy 40 Damage, leads to an untechable GB if dodged by opponent
- LB Shove-on-Block or Shove from neutral: leads to a hard to react top light / GB mixup option, since it is free on any block this move is used ALOT. Top light is 15 Damage, GB leads into new mixup options or side heavy for 30 Damage, is pretty much unpunishable for anyone without a dodge-attack

Now to your examples:
- Conq Shieldbash: 500ms, guaranteed Light 13 Damage and possibility to ledge, leads to an untechable GB if dodged by opponent
- Gladiator: Toe Stab 600ms (800ms against someone who is OOS), 10 Damage (and knockdown if OOS), leads to an untechable GB if dodged by opponent - Shield Bash: 600ms, no guaranteed followup, possibility to ledge, leads to an untechable GB against Glad if opponent dodged
- Centurion: Kick: 600ms, guaranteed Light 15 Damage, possibility to ledge - Falcon Punch: 700-1000ms, is highly punishable from neutral (untechable GB if dodged), is guaranteed after a Charged Heavy hit (1000-1200ms) which is only guaranteed after a successful GB - wall stagger

You have other moves you want to call OP? Because all you mentioned are pretty much the same timings and deal equal damage as the older unblockable moves. Centurion Cutscene and Glad Toe Stab are the only "new" moves. Toe Stab is dodgeable on reaction from neutral and will lead to a big punish, it is only hard to dodge after a confirmed Light hit (but will do only 10 Damage). Centurion lost his easy access to the Cutscene months ago, and the parry changes in S5 did their part on that, too. Thing is that Centurion can't do much to you if you know what you are doing. He is B-Tier right now...

Edit: The punishes with untechable GB only are true for Characters with low dodge-recoveries (<=600ms). Everyone with higher dodge-recoveries will at least get a guaranteed Light (or confirmed dodge-attack) from dodging these moves which is mostly a 1:1 ratio risk/reward.

Playing_Mantis
04-20-2018, 08:32 AM
im ok with unblockables as long as they can be dealt with reasonably or not spammed.