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EvoX.
04-12-2018, 06:31 PM
> 10hp increase: great, now it takes one more light to die, sometimes wouldn't even make a difference because of various punishes and high damage heavies. Almost useless.

> Light>Heavy: sweet, 5 extra chip damage. You know, since pretty much everyone knows how to deal with Centurion's heavies nowadays? Block or tech the predictable GB soft feint and you're instantly a Centurion slayer, it really is that easy. Dodge the slow and predictable unblockable after that and you even get a free GB yourself. Fun for the whole family, except for Cent.

Meanwhile, Conqueror gets... a 2 point damage nerf to lights, not changing his S-tier standing in the slightest and Zerker gets an irrelevant nerf as well.

This ''buff'' probably means they will never look at Centurion again, while his core non-viablility is still there - absolutely nothing will change about how people fight Centurion and how he fights.

Ergo... RIP.

Dane520123
04-12-2018, 06:33 PM
Honestly the light heavy will actually be helpful for another combo that I wished for, for a while. But yea thats the only good thing he got.... 10 hp? Really.... just shows these devs have no idea wtf they’re doing.

TheDemiurgos
04-12-2018, 10:23 PM
-130 hp
-Faster jab
-Faster kick
-Feintable jab
-Rotational tracking to the charged jab
-Allow the zone attack to be feintable after first and second swing
-L>H>H chain
-H>H>H chain

With little I know about this game I think these changes would help cent to handle A tier heroes. Not sure if it's enough though because the mixups are kinda bad. I literally don't know though.

XJadeDragoonX
04-12-2018, 11:29 PM
If you were an experienced centurion, you'd know that this is actually a great change. But ok

Tirik22x
04-13-2018, 02:13 AM
If you were an experienced centurion, you'd know that this is actually a great change. But ok

I’ll take it.

Also want a dodge attack... but oh well.

Playing_Mantis
04-13-2018, 05:41 AM
did u guys not watch the warriors den? he got a buff, even tho there are other heroes in much more need. but of course they have to buff him first...

Vrbas1
04-13-2018, 05:43 AM
@thread title

Good. Now do us all a favor and delete him from the roster.

Tirik22x
04-13-2018, 07:34 AM
Honestly the light heavy will actually be helpful for another combo that I wished for, for a while. But yea thats the only good thing he got.... 10 hp? Really.... just shows these devs have no idea wtf they’re doing.

10hp was really all I was hoping for. Otherwise they’d have to decrease his stamina to keep it balanced. 15 woulda been nice tho.

Knight_Raime
04-13-2018, 07:50 AM
this does technically solidify centurion as a pub stomper. Because this now means he's got 5 ways? into his unblockable soft feint mix up. Parry counter heavy into heavy, neutral heavy into heavy, jab into light into heavy, kick into light into heavy.

Tirik22x
04-13-2018, 07:59 AM
this does technically solidify centurion as a pub stomper. Because this now means he's got 5 ways? into his unblockable soft feint mix up. Parry counter heavy into heavy, neutral heavy into heavy, jab into light into heavy, kick into light into heavy.

Which is why it’s actually a nice buff...

And the OP is, well... just wrong.

megamasa94
04-13-2018, 08:02 AM
-Faster jab
-Faster kick
-Feintable jab
-Rotational tracking to the charged jab

lol.. ok give us zerkers fast feintable groin kick, and give orochi fast feintable high kick.. i wouldnt spam it for gb like wardens bash, i wouldnt, i swear..
ps and also gevery character that doesnt have any kind of kick/punch/bash/headbutt give it to them, but make it feintable and give it rotational tracking..

ArchDukeInstinct
04-13-2018, 09:20 AM
Meanwhile, Conqueror gets... a 2 point damage nerf to lights, not changing his S-tier standing in the slightest and Zerker gets an irrelevant nerf as well.

Ah yes this 15% reduction adding 2 additional lights needed to kill classes with the standard 120 hp is no big deal. Nothing to see here.
It's not even the full extent of the Conqueror changes they also made it so shield crush will no longer guarantee a shield bash. So it's not an option anymore for OOS pressure.

SaschoS
04-13-2018, 01:47 PM
It is pretty ******ed champ why would anyone play this one combo garbage

wolfman25br
04-13-2018, 02:36 PM
> 10hp increase: great, now it takes one more light to die, sometimes wouldn't even make a difference because of various punishes and high damage heavies. Almost useless.

> Light>Heavy: sweet, 5 extra chip damage. You know, since pretty much everyone knows how to deal with Centurion's heavies nowadays? Block or tech the predictable GB soft feint and you're instantly a Centurion slayer, it really is that easy. Dodge the slow and predictable unblockable after that and you even get a free GB yourself. Fun for the whole family, except for Cent.

Meanwhile, Conqueror gets... a 2 point damage nerf to lights, not changing his S-tier standing in the slightest and Zerker gets an irrelevant nerf as well.

This ''buff'' probably means they will never look at Centurion again, while his core non-viablility is still there - absolutely nothing will change about how people fight Centurion and how he fights.

Ergo... RIP.

Cent didnt need any of these buffs, but we all know its a favorite of dev, thays why he receives so much attention.

But pls enough with the drama.

https://media.giphy.com/media/l1KcQgGBZT4RmVTnq/giphy.gif

EvoX.
04-13-2018, 05:03 PM
this does technically solidify centurion as a pub stomper. Because this now means he's got 5 ways? into his unblockable soft feint mix up. Parry counter heavy into heavy, neutral heavy into heavy, jab into light into heavy, kick into light into heavy.


Which is why it’s actually a nice buff...

And the OP is, well... just wrong.

Right, well, after the patch goes live, do you guys mind posting some vids with Centurion against people equal to your skill level who use an S, A or high B-tier hero and post it here? I would seriously love seeing all your attempts of ''mixups'' get blocked, dodged and tech'd. Wonder what the argument is gonna be then. In fact, I distinctly remember both of you saying his heavy/UB game is weak in previous threads/posts, but now it's suddenly okay, when all they did was simply add more of the same?

And no, you're the one that's wrong, but whatever. The hate for that class is just too strong, even the devs are afraid to buff him properly. I'll just accept it's over and move on.


Ah yes this 15% reduction adding 2 additional lights needed to kill classes with the standard 120 hp is no big deal. Nothing to see here.
It's not even the full extent of the Conqueror changes they also made it so shield crush will no longer guarantee a shield bash. So it's not an option anymore for OOS pressure.

15% damage reduction sounds real fancy like that, I suggest sticking to the actual numbers - which is a 2 point damage nerf from 15 to 13. It's kind of interesting how you calculated the two remaining lights part: you automatically assumed every match would consist of a Conqueror spamming SB and the guaranteed light, that and the Zone option select. So you don't even give players of your main the benefit of the doubt, that they aren't just going to spam that one move and never throw a heavy or attempt a full block for that UB, which completely messes up your 2 additional lights assumption.

But anyway, I'm kind of envious, I wish Cent had an omnipotent option select, very difficult to react to kick, actual mixup game and great HP pool.

SangLong524
04-13-2018, 05:40 PM
How dramatic! Who's next? Conqueror again? I thought somebody around here lamented the death of For Honor sometimes ago, all the time
He still looks very lively to me

Knight_Raime
04-13-2018, 05:47 PM
Right, well, after the patch goes live, do you guys mind posting some vids with Centurion against people equal to your skill level who use an S, A or high B-tier hero and post it here? I would seriously love seeing all your attempts of ''mixups'' get blocked, dodged and tech'd. Wonder what the argument is gonna be then. In fact, I distinctly remember both of you saying his heavy/UB game is weak in previous threads/posts, but now it's suddenly okay, when all they did was simply add more of the same?

And no, you're the one that's wrong, but whatever. The hate for that class is just too strong, even the devs are afraid to buff him properly. I'll just accept it's over and move on.



15% damage reduction sounds real fancy like that, I suggest sticking to the actual numbers - which is a 2 point damage nerf from 15 to 13. It's kind of interesting how you calculated the two remaining lights part: you automatically assumed every match would consist of a Conqueror spamming SB and the guaranteed light, that and the Zone option select. So you don't even give players of your main the benefit of the doubt, that they aren't just going to spam that one move and never throw a heavy or attempt a full block for that UB, which completely messes up your 2 additional lights assumption.

But anyway, I'm kind of envious, I wish Cent had an omnipotent option select, very difficult to react to kick, actual mixup game and great HP pool.

chiiiiil. You misunderstood me. I called him a pub stomper for a reason. meaning good vs not so great players (average ones.) This allows him to have easier access to his UB soft feint combo. and for those who struggle with that (again average players) this solidifies him being a pub stomper.

Devils-_-legacy
04-13-2018, 05:49 PM
Pub? Does that mean noob lol

Knight_Raime
04-13-2018, 06:04 PM
Pub? Does that mean noob lol

you've never heard of pub stomping before?

Devils-_-legacy
04-13-2018, 06:10 PM
No I'm in the uk so a pub is a sacred place were you start a session that may last a full 24 hrs the idea of stomping one is blasphemy

Knight_Raime
04-13-2018, 06:22 PM
No I'm in the uk so a pub is a sacred place were you start a session that may last a full 24 hrs the idea of stomping one is blasphemy

LOL okay this is great. made my morning. Basically pub stomping is referring to being a good enough player that you can hop into a session against random players who either don't communicate or do very little coordinating and not only win but do massively better than them. This doesn't mean you're an amazing player at the game. You just are good enough to best most others. People who are called this are usually the kind of people who also upload a lot of montages of their gameplay.

Devils-_-legacy
04-13-2018, 06:35 PM
I do try lol. Ok so an example would be going into a game and out comming out 21 - 0 is a pub stomper I prefer it to try hards but this is a first time Ive heard that phrase tbf

EvoX.
04-13-2018, 07:08 PM
chiiiiil. You misunderstood me. I called him a pub stomper for a reason. meaning good vs not so great players (average ones.) This allows him to have easier access to his UB soft feint combo. and for those who struggle with that (again average players) this solidifies him being a pub stomper.

Okay, but what if I and other Cent players don't want to just be noob stompers, and want to play against other (above) average players? You're saying his established and solidified place in this game as a pub stomper and not actually a competitive class is okay?

Well, I disagree, but the dev team seem to share your sentiments.

wolfman25br
04-13-2018, 07:20 PM
In The funeral.
https://media.giphy.com/media/RnX4q6yYDoYCI/giphy.gif

Illyrian_King
04-13-2018, 08:06 PM
> 10hp increase: great, now it takes one more light to die, sometimes wouldn't even make a difference because of various punishes and high damage heavies. Almost useless.

> Light>Heavy: sweet, 5 extra chip damage. You know, since pretty much everyone knows how to deal with Centurion's heavies nowadays? Block or tech the predictable GB soft feint and you're instantly a Centurion slayer, it really is that easy. Dodge the slow and predictable unblockable after that and you even get a free GB yourself. Fun for the whole family, except for Cent.

Meanwhile, Conqueror gets... a 2 point damage nerf to lights, not changing his S-tier standing in the slightest and Zerker gets an irrelevant nerf as well.

This ''buff'' probably means they will never look at Centurion again, while his core non-viablility is still there - absolutely nothing will change about how people fight Centurion and how he fights.

Ergo... RIP.

Lol absolutely not.

A hero, who just needs an easy accessable unblockable to pull off his cutscene and do a crapload of damage can't be considered as "dead" :confused:

Agree, he isn't OP anymore like he was, but with this buff he is fine again.

The HP allows him to stand a bit more and the new chain allows him to do a jab way more often and keep the enemy OOS --> exactly what he is supposed to do

PanzerShrekonin
04-14-2018, 01:00 AM
https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/resource/en-gb/game/forhonor/fh-game/fh_duel_winloss_matrix_870x489v3_320341.jpg


"Fine" xD

EvoX.
04-14-2018, 01:13 AM
https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/resource/en-gb/game/forhonor/fh-game/fh_duel_winloss_matrix_870x489v3_320341.jpg


"Fine" xD

Damn, what the hell? Even I didn't think it was this bad.


the new chain allows him to do a jab way more often and keep the enemy OOS --> exactly what he is supposed to do

You mean that same jab almost everyone dodges on reaction consistently, the one that leaves you open for a Guardbreak?

PanzerShrekonin
04-14-2018, 01:50 AM
Damn, what the hell? Even I didn't think it was this bad.



You mean that same jab almost everyone dodges on reaction consistently, the one that leaves you open for a Guardbreak?


He's been terrible since he got nerfed when he was released and hes been subsequently nerfed until he is WORSE THAN VALK... which is funny. Valks actually not as bad as people said she was. She was at the 50% mark.

ArchDukeInstinct
04-14-2018, 03:07 AM
15% damage reduction sounds real fancy like that

Oh sorry, I can give you it in a decimal or fraction if percentages are too fancy for you.


I suggest sticking to the actual numbers - which is a 2 point damage nerf from 15 to 13.

Right. Which is a 15% decrease, an actual number believe it or not.


It's kind of interesting how you calculated the two remaining lights part: you automatically assumed every match would consist of a Conqueror spamming SB and the guaranteed light, that and the Zone option select. So you don't even give players of your main the benefit of the doubt, that they aren't just going to spam that one move and never throw a heavy or attempt a full block for that UB, which completely messes up your 2 additional lights assumption.

First off, every other permutation (ie side and top heavies, flail uppercuts added in) I've ran adds in at least one extra light as well. It's indisputable that this is nerf is a lot more significant than you're trying to make it sound.

Secondly that's what Conq haters on these forums pretend is the case all the time. So how exactly is this scenario they've nagged about so much suddenly irrelevant when it's been nerfed?

And again you completely ignore the shield crush change which entirely eliminates the 50/50 Conqueror used to have for OOS targets.

Knight_Raime
04-14-2018, 04:13 AM
Okay, but what if I and other Cent players don't want to just be noob stompers, and want to play against other (above) average players? You're saying his established and solidified place in this game as a pub stomper and not actually a competitive class is okay?

Well, I disagree, but the dev team seem to share your sentiments.

I was fine with how he was before he got this buff. I believe you saw my post about that and didn't agree with me.
which is fine.

Knight_Raime
04-14-2018, 04:14 AM
Okay, but what if I and other Cent players don't want to just be noob stompers, and want to play against other (above) average players? You're saying his established and solidified place in this game as a pub stomper and not actually a competitive class is okay?

Well, I disagree, but the dev team seem to share your sentiments.

I was fine with how he was before he got this buff. I believe you saw my post about that and didn't agree with me.
which is fine.

Baturai
04-14-2018, 07:23 AM
Centurion was the reason why so many Left. Instead of Working on ignored heroes and improve their dramatic situation
they rather reBuff a well balanced(1v1) Hero Like Centurion. He is still a dominater on DOminion what else do you WISH you Centurion Freaks? reason is Simple "Ramons fav Character" His
Fav Character caused this gameto fall to the Ground.
I still remember all the Parry Punishes of Cent dealing 60% of my Life Stamina drain and Kick Kick Kick Spamm..

Is this what you Miss so desperately ? Well Thank you. You are the Reason why this Game is unbalanced.
Disgusting and unaccaptable.

PanzerShrekonin
04-14-2018, 08:10 AM
Centurion was the reason why so many Left. Instead of Working on ignored heroes and improve their dramatic situation
they rather reBuff a well balanced(1v1) Hero Like Centurion. He is still a dominater on DOminion what else do you WISH you Centurion Freaks? reason is Simple "Ramons fav Character" His
Fav Character caused this gameto fall to the Ground.
I still remember all the Parry Punishes of Cent dealing 60% of my Life Stamina drain and Kick Kick Kick Spamm..

Is this what you Miss so desperately ? Well Thank you. You are the Reason why this Game is unbalanced.
Disgusting and unaccaptable.


https://ubistatic19-a.akamaihd.net/resource/en-gb/game/forhonor/fh-game/fh_duel_winloss_matrix_870x489v3_320341.jpg

"Well Balanced."

I guess Valk doesn't need any help!

Same with Orochi actually :P

Or Warden!

Playing_Mantis
04-14-2018, 08:24 AM
this chart actually means **** when u look at all the factors on skilled players vs noobs playing a class thats easy free wins with..Such as Valk, these players are old skilled guys for the most part playing from day one and sadly still only going 50% wins vs these noobs on the easy as **** op characters. Yes, cent is fine roman, i think there are plenty of other heroes way worse off that have been waiting months and months to get help but the cent buff of course has to come first.. the balance is just a joke. don't worry cent players, your boy roman plays the cent so u will never have to worry about this golden boy being low tier ever. I'm sure he will be breaking the game again very very soon!

PanzerShrekonin
04-14-2018, 08:47 AM
this chart actually means **** when u look at all the factors on skilled players vs noobs playing a class thats easy free wins with..Such as Valk, these players are old skilled guys for the most part playing from day one and sadly still only going 50% wins vs these noobs on the easy as **** op characters. Yes, cent is fine roman, i think there are plenty of other heroes way worse off that have been waiting months and months to get help but the cent buff of course has to come first.. the balance is just a joke. don't worry cent players, your boy roman plays the cent so u will never have to worry about this golden boy being low tier ever. I'm sure he will be breaking the game again very very soon!

Actually it means everything because in the top 2.5% of players, the best of the best, Centurion is crap alongside Wardne, and Orochi. They are WORSE THAN VALK. This is actual stats dude... and you deny it? LOL

Your hatred for Centurion is so high, you ignore whats in front of your face.

Knight_Raime
04-14-2018, 12:41 PM
Centurion was the reason why so many Left. Instead of Working on ignored heroes and improve their dramatic situation
they rather reBuff a well balanced(1v1) Hero Like Centurion. He is still a dominater on DOminion what else do you WISH you Centurion Freaks? reason is Simple "Ramons fav Character" His
Fav Character caused this gameto fall to the Ground.
I still remember all the Parry Punishes of Cent dealing 60% of my Life Stamina drain and Kick Kick Kick Spamm..

Is this what you Miss so desperately ? Well Thank you. You are the Reason why this Game is unbalanced.
Disgusting and unaccaptable.

I mean there were several other reasons people quit but sure. will ignore them for the sake of making your argument sound better.
You assume/act like they can't work on more than one hero at a time. If anything the fact that centurion is getting this small adjustment means he's likely not going to be touched for a long time after (despite basically the entire competitive community demanding for a full rework of him) and other more deserving heros are getting bigger and better tweaks.

Actually he's one of the more bad picks for dominion. There are tons of better gankers and team fighters compared to him. But if all you do is match against random solo que-ers that do nothing but reee around the map then any hero is going to seem oppressive.
The Roman hate bandwagon is just so old and tired and really speaks to your level of maturity. This excuse has been given for the gladiator and the shaman too. Even though shaman has been nerfed twice and a lot faster than most heros get adjusted. He also said on the recent stream his love for valk. Are you going to endlessly slam that class once it gets buffed with the same reasoning?
Hyperbolic statement. Poor mechanics with a terrible connection system did. But again will ignore so your argument sounds good.

If you still struggle against centurion this far along despite being here this long the problem isn't centurion my man. it's you.

Dane520123
04-14-2018, 01:01 PM
Cent didnt need any of these buffs, but we all know its a favorite of dev, thays why he receives so much attention.

But pls enough with the drama.

https://media.giphy.com/media/l1KcQgGBZT4RmVTnq/giphy.gif

You’re right, he needed better buffs. I can’t stand idiots like you who’d wrather have a character removed from the game because u don’t wanna take the time to learn how to fight them. Just deal with the fact you suck??. I used to suck but eventually I Mained him to real 23 I can destroy rep 30 cents with a fckin rep 1 orochi because I know all his tricks. Not saying u have to play him that much just get a feel of him or shut up.

Dane520123
04-14-2018, 01:03 PM
Centurion was the reason why so many Left. Instead of Working on ignored heroes and improve their dramatic situation
they rather reBuff a well balanced(1v1) Hero Like Centurion. He is still a dominater on DOminion what else do you WISH you Centurion Freaks? reason is Simple "Ramons fav Character" His
Fav Character caused this gameto fall to the Ground.
I still remember all the Parry Punishes of Cent dealing 60% of my Life Stamina drain and Kick Kick Kick Spamm..

Is this what you Miss so desperately ? Well Thank you. You are the Reason why this Game is unbalanced.
Disgusting and unaccaptable.
You seem really stupid, just get off the forums.

Hormly
04-14-2018, 06:39 PM
Killed by a buff

Oh sweet irony



Also, cent has been the worst designed character in the game since his debut. Id be happy if he was axed out entirely.

But he was in fact made stronger, i cant fathom a cent player complaining

PanzerShrekonin
04-14-2018, 09:14 PM
Killed by a buff

Oh sweet irony



Also, cent has been the worst designed character in the game since his debut. Id be happy if he was axed out entirely.

But he was in fact made stronger, i cant fathom a cent player complaining

Cent is horribly designed. You are right. But the buff did little to help him. He's s till one of the worst characters in the game.

Auztinito
04-15-2018, 11:36 AM
Let him have his health, who cares. He's a poorly designed character from the start. Who the hell creates a character designed around breaking a meta? Apparently, the designers of this game. I will say soft feinting in this game is ********. You are punished for actually reacting. You dodge, get grabbed. Don't move, get hit. Try to parry, get grabbed.The last time I heard people ***** about this was with Warden and he got ****ed over constantly with the release of newer character and the "nerfs" didn't help. I honestly hate the designers of this game because they break their solidified rules. Hell, they gave 10K to a cheat. Honestly, I would call any character with the ability to soft feint into attacks or unblockables broken. I would not say Centurion is one of the worst characters because he has combos that take half your health without having to worry about stamina. I would suggest a complete rework of that character but that goes for every character. You should not be able to drain an opponents stamina by landing some ******** unblockable. The problem is, the designers of these characters don't know their own game. They added Shinobi who while having least health could attack from long range in a 3D melee fighting game. There are tons of simple fixes to this game's problems but the developers and designers are too stupid to realize it. Revenge became useless which lead to "ganking" becoming the one and only strategy for 4v4. Their response, we wanted it to be more team-based but instead following through that front, they think FF is too much. One of the most used features in team-based games. Honestly, who the **** cares about 10 more HP.

Knight_Raime
04-15-2018, 01:00 PM
Let him have his health, who cares. He's a poorly designed character from the start. Who the hell creates a character designed around breaking a meta? Apparently, the designers of this game. I will say soft feinting in this game is ********. You are punished for actually reacting. You dodge, get grabbed. Don't move, get hit. Try to parry, get grabbed.The last time I heard people ***** about this was with Warden and he got ****ed over constantly with the release of newer character and the "nerfs" didn't help. I honestly hate the designers of this game because they break their solidified rules. Hell, they gave 10K to a cheat. Honestly, I would call any character with the ability to soft feint into attacks or unblockables broken. I would not say Centurion is one of the worst characters because he has combos that take half your health without having to worry about stamina. I would suggest a complete rework of that character but that goes for every character. You should not be able to drain an opponents stamina by landing some ******** unblockable. The problem is, the designers of these characters don't know their own game. They added Shinobi who while having least health could attack from long range in a 3D melee fighting game. There are tons of simple fixes to this game's problems but the developers and designers are too stupid to realize it. Revenge became useless which lead to "ganking" becoming the one and only strategy for 4v4. Their response, we wanted it to be more team-based but instead following through that front, they think FF is too much. One of the most used features in team-based games. Honestly, who the **** cares about 10 more HP.

Advocating for the inability to use something especially in a game that's pvp focused is never okay. And if you can't curb your personal issues with something you shouldn't be speaking on it.

As far as soft feinting goes I'm guessing fighting games are not for you then. All fighting games have things based on reaction and things based on prediction/reads. The fact that you reacted to something and got punished means you reacted to the wrong thing. There are some things in this game that require you to read. But a majority of the soft feints in this game are 100% reactable.

"I would call any character with the ability to soft feint into attacks or unblockables broken." Warden soft feints into a GB. which catches people who dodge the SB on start up reaction. and you just complained about hating being caught when attempting to dodge something. With this knowledge alone it's safe to infer that you think warden is broken. Nice.

"you should not be able to drain someone's stamina with an unblockable." So if unblockables can't be quick, can't be soft feinted, and can't drain stamina what would you have them do? Just be hard feint bait?

Soul calibur is a 3d fighting game and has ranged attacks. I'm sure there are others. I'm guessing this is you fluffing your argument though.
"the devs don't know their game." "revenge nerf lead to ganking." I see...

All in all I don't agree with/share OP's feelings. But you clearly have issues and your argument is full of holes and rage. Probably should stop playing if things are as bad as you think so and your lack of faith on the devs really is this bad.

Auztinito
04-15-2018, 01:29 PM
Advocating for the inability to use something especially in a game that's pvp focused is never okay. And if you can't curb your personal issues with something you shouldn't be speaking on it.

As far as soft feinting goes I'm guessing fighting games are not for you then. All fighting games have things based on reaction and things based on prediction/reads. The fact that you reacted to something and got punished means you reacted to the wrong thing. There are some things in this game that require you to read. But a majority of the soft feints in this game are 100% reactable.

"I would call any character with the ability to soft feint into attacks or unblockables broken." Warden soft feints into a GB. which catches people who dodge the SB on start up reaction. and you just complained about hating being caught when attempting to dodge something. With this knowledge alone it's safe to infer that you think warden is broken. Nice.

"you should not be able to drain someone's stamina with an unblockable." So if unblockables can't be quick, can't be soft feinted, and can't drain stamina what would you have them do? Just be hard feint bait?

Soul calibur is a 3d fighting game and has ranged attacks. I'm sure there are others. I'm guessing this is you fluffing your argument though.
"the devs don't know their game." "revenge nerf lead to ganking." I see...

All in all I don't agree with/share OP's feelings. But you clearly have issues and your argument is full of holes and rage. Probably should stop playing if things are as bad as you think so and your lack of faith on the devs really is this bad.

Did I ever say Warden was not broken? Apparently, he was enough to have them "nerfed" into the ground where SB is more dodgeable and counterable than any unblockable in the game. Unblockables should be heavy hitting moves that break someones defense (make them non parry-able, simple), not stamina draining and heavy hitting that setup a 33/33/33 with no effective counters for reacting. I love how you say, I'm just reacting to the wrong thing. There is no use in reading attacks when you're put in a position where they can change the attack to another regardless of your choice.There is no commitment to attacking with those kind of moves. It's not reading your opponent, it guessing. Big difference. Reading means you are following and understanding their next move. Guessing, is random like a badly rigged casino. I payed $100 at release, I can have as much "lack of faith" in the devs I want because they brought that upon themselves. Anything hatred they receive is due their actions, words, and ect. I will also, assume you play on PC. Now try playing that at 30fps against players, you'll notice a big difference. You are forced into committing your dodge or parry but not on the other side of the spectrum if you have a fast enough character or enough spammable moves.

Tirik22x
04-15-2018, 01:33 PM
Did I ever say Warden was not broken? Apparently, he was enough to have them "nerfed" into the ground where SB is more dodgeable and counterable than any unblockable in the game. Unblockables should be heavy hitting moves that break someones defense (make them non parry-able, simple), not stamina draining and heavy hitting that setup a 33/33/33 with no effective counters for reacting. I love how you say, I'm just reacting to the wrong thing. There is no use in reading attacks when you're put in a position where they can change the attack to another regardless of your choice.There is no commitment to attacking with those kind of moves. It's not reading your opponent, it guessing. Big difference. Reading means you are following and understanding their next move. Guessing, is random like a badly rigged casino. I payed $100 at release, I can have as much "lack of faith" in the devs I want because they brought that upon themselves. Anything hatred they receive is due their actions, words, and ect. I will also, assume you play on PC. Now try playing that at 30fps against players, you'll notice a big difference.

You just kinda sound... terrible at this game, and you’re angry about it.

It’s not the games, or centurion’s fault your bad.

Auztinito
04-15-2018, 01:40 PM
You just kinda sound... terrible at this game, and you’re angry about it.

It’s not the games, or centurion’s fault your bad.

I handle the game just fine. I dislike the characters, abilities, and ect in any competitive game that is badly done and ignores the already established rules. Same goes for most games in general. For example, harder difficulty is usually expressed by increasing damage taken and lowering damage dealt for the player. I think it's lazy and stupid that to make a game more difficult you have to skew the game in a unfair way instead of keeping the game "fair". Another example, drop-shotting and quick-scoping in a FPS. Those are ******** features that shouldn't exist in a competitive FPS unless your game is nothing but a casual arcade shooter.

Knight_Raime
04-15-2018, 02:32 PM
Did I ever say Warden was not broken? Apparently, he was enough to have them "nerfed" into the ground where SB is more dodgeable and counterable than any unblockable in the game. Unblockables should be heavy hitting moves that break someones defense (make them non parry-able, simple), not stamina draining and heavy hitting that setup a 33/33/33 with no effective counters for reacting. I love how you say, I'm just reacting to the wrong thing. There is no use in reading attacks when you're put in a position where they can change the attack to another regardless of your choice.There is no commitment to attacking with those kind of moves. It's not reading your opponent, it guessing. Big difference. Reading means you are following and understanding their next move. Guessing, is random like a badly rigged casino. I payed $100 at release, I can have as much "lack of faith" in the devs I want because they brought that upon themselves. Anything hatred they receive is due their actions, words, and ect. I will also, assume you play on PC. Now try playing that at 30fps against players, you'll notice a big difference. You are forced into committing your dodge or parry but not on the other side of the spectrum if you have a fast enough character or enough spammable moves.

How he was in the past is irrelevant. We're talking about right now. And based on the critera you gave he's currently broken. You will be laughed out of any legitmate discussion of balance or game theory because of how wrong that statement is.

So you want to give a move that can't be parried. But if it's slow it's just dodged. So it's effectively useless. Unblockables (non bash ones anyway) need to carry a threat of damage or people will not change from playing defensive. Not saying all unblockables need to do chunk damage. But their damage needs to be significant for threat. Because threat forces a reaction. Which is required to make the game not a turtle fest.

Everything in this game has effective counters. So either your game knowledge is lacking. Or you're being hyperbolic. You are reacting to the wrong thing. If you know that move can be soft feinted and you react to the move itself in start up you're reacting wrong.

There is 100% commitement. If I soft feint wardens SB into a GB i've committed to a GB. if i've soft feinted my kick into caber toss i've committed to the toss. You're thinking far to linearly to have any real understanding of a game at a competitive level let alone a fighter.

A read is when you understand how your opponent plays well enough to know what's coming next. Which lets you properly counter/avoid it. Guessing means you have no idea how your opponent plays and the window is too tight to make a reaction alone. Just because say a highlander can throw kick 3 out of 4 times and then soft feint it into a toss on the 4th time doesn't mean you can't read the person.

Never said you couldn't feel the way you wanted to. I was questioning your decision making skills for sticking with a game you clearly have very deep issues with. I play on xbox friendo. Console argument is a crutch for terrible people and FPS has little to any impact. PC players have it "easier" because they're typically playing on a monitor. Which has good refresh rate. Which means the information of the game is updated a lot more frequently. Which means they know what's happening in real time a lot more accurately than someone who plays on a standard tv.

Again speaking to your lack of knowledge and your willingness to blame other things instead of yourself.
I'm not going to speak to you further on this. Your narrow minded. Your lack of knowledge on a competitive level is very apparent not just for this game but fighters in general. And your quick jump to the console argument only solidifies my points about you.

You're angry. and illogical. and lack knowledge. And rather than actually owning up to your own issues and trying to learn to be better at the game or actually be willing to listen to someone who knows far more than you you're just making excuses and shutting everyone out. For your sake i'd suggest you quit the game. It's not good for your health to have this toxic mindset.

Knight_Raime
04-15-2018, 02:42 PM
I handle the game just fine. I dislike the characters, abilities, and ect in any competitive game that is badly done and ignores the already established rules. Same goes for most games in general. For example, harder difficulty is usually expressed by increasing damage taken and lowering damage dealt for the player. I think it's lazy and stupid that to make a game more difficult you have to skew the game in a unfair way instead of keeping the game "fair". Another example, drop-shotting and quick-scoping in a FPS. Those are ******** features that shouldn't exist in a competitive FPS unless your game is nothing but a casual arcade shooter.

Clearly you don't.
Oh and soft feints don't break the games established rules. They've existed since day 1.
Something that breaks the established rules that does exist in for honor is centurions charged jab knocking you down regardless of you being OOS or not. Caber toss and other unblockable grabs don't because those are functionally a GB.

Enemies hitting harder and you doing less damage isn't real difficulty. it's artificial. You're not forced to learn anything new or deal with anything new. You are just punished harder for a single mistake. If you find that fun more power to you but that's not real difficulty. Mechanical changes or something as significant as one dictates proper difficulty. Fair is subjective.
Drop shotting in an fps is basically movement strats. You realize some of the most competitive and widely regarded as skillful shooters have tons of movement tricks right? Look at quake. Or halo.

Auztinito
04-15-2018, 03:18 PM
Clearly you don't.
Oh and soft feints don't break the games established rules. They've existed since day 1.
Something that breaks the established rules that does exist in for honor is centurions charged jab knocking you down regardless of you being OOS or not. Caber toss and other unblockable grabs don't because those are functionally a GB.

Enemies hitting harder and you doing less damage isn't real difficulty. it's artificial. You're not forced to learn anything new or deal with anything new. You are just punished harder for a single mistake. If you find that fun more power to you but that's not real difficulty. Mechanical changes or something as significant as one dictates proper difficulty. Fair is subjective.
Drop shotting in an fps is basically movement strats. You realize some of the most competitive and widely regarded as skillful shooters have tons of movement tricks right? Look at quake. Or halo.

I never advocated nor do I find artificial difficulty fun. I find it lazy. Yet, drop-shotting is planned to be removed in R6: Siege one of those highly competitive shooters.
It's in effect on their test server. If soft feints aren't broken then why did the devs before reintroducing them, remove them during Season 1?
I believe it's stupid to punish the player to react accordingly especially in a fighting game. If I parry you, I should get a punish that is equal to that parry's difficulty. I've ran across moves that after being parried, I was still being attacked right after the parry. Those are things I find annoying and borderline exploitative. Nice remark about me being toxic, it doesn't benefit you to sound like pompous and arrogant *******. If I dodge Highlander's Kick but turns into a grab because I avoided it, there is no reading that because he didn't plan ahead, he just reacted. It's the equivalent counter stab on BF4. It's one-sided and easy to do. If I decided to stay, I would be kicked giving him opportunity for a free attack. Are you saying, you would be okay with Warden being reverted back to his original state of "cancer"? Seems like it. I would find Warden broken in the sense that he is a one-trick pony not an adaptable jack of all trades character. I don't have deep issue with the game, I have deep issues with the developers and lead designers of this game. They have numerous bad balance calls since they buffed Lawbringer, during Season 1. A counter is a counter, so would dodge rolling be considered a counter, in your opinion? I wouldn't because you gained nothing from it. If you're forced to dodge roll out of a move then something is wrong. ANother thing, if I can see the parry flicker, then I should get the parry correct? If so, why have i seen the parry flicker but the attack changed at the last 100-200 ms, Not to mention, some characters lights combos are too fast to re actively block. Do you considered that to be balanced?

Dane520123
04-15-2018, 03:18 PM
Did I ever say Warden was not broken? Apparently, he was enough to have them "nerfed" into the ground where SB is more dodgeable and counterable than any unblockable in the game. Unblockables should be heavy hitting moves that break someones defense (make them non parry-able, simple), not stamina draining and heavy hitting that setup a 33/33/33 with no effective counters for reacting. I love how you say, I'm just reacting to the wrong thing. There is no use in reading attacks when you're put in a position where they can change the attack to another regardless of your choice.There is no commitment to attacking with those kind of moves. It's not reading your opponent, it guessing. Big difference. Reading means you are following and understanding their next move. Guessing, is random like a badly rigged casino. I payed $100 at release, I can have as much "lack of faith" in the devs I want because they brought that upon themselves. Anything hatred they receive is due their actions, words, and ect. I will also, assume you play on PC. Now try playing that at 30fps against players, you'll notice a big difference. You are forced into committing your dodge or parry but not on the other side of the spectrum if you have a fast enough character or enough spammable moves.

Just give up bro lool, you’re just making yourself look dumber and dumber the more you respond. These guys are using facts while you’re using anger and lack of knowledge and skill. Knight Raime is right.. maybe this game isn’t for you.

Hormly
04-15-2018, 03:36 PM
And for those of you not familiar with fighting game terminology, a "read" is what is known to normal people as a "guess". I.e. rock paper scissors.

"Guessing" being that thing that this game was advertised to NOT rely on, which separated it from the likes of street fighter.

Knight_Raime
04-15-2018, 04:03 PM
And for those of you not familiar with fighting game terminology, a "read" is what is known to normal people as a "guess". I.e. rock paper scissors.

"Guessing" being that thing that this game was advertised to NOT rely on, which separated it from the likes of street fighter.

All fighting games have things that can be reacted to and things that are read. For honor is different than typical fighter games in many fashions. It's lack of frame trapping. It's lack of footsies. It's lack of movement being important. etc. The main seller was the "art of battle" system. For honor has a lot of deep roots in fencing. And even in fencing you perform movements/actions to try to throw your opponent off to get an opening for a critical blow.

Even saying all of that for honor is still largely reaction based. Very few things in the game force you to "guess." It's also much easier to make reads in for honor as compared to say a 2d fighter.

Alustar.
04-15-2018, 04:12 PM
And for those of you not familiar with fighting game terminology, a "read" is what is known to normal people as a "guess". I.e. rock paper scissors.

"Guessing" being that thing that this game was advertised to NOT rely on, which separated it from the likes of street fighter.
Guessing and reading are not the same thing. Guessing occurs when you have not fought a particular opponent before and only know the move set of a particular hero, you guess which attack will come next based off his kit.
A read occurs when you have already established the pattern of moves the players uses in succession, and this read his attack pattern to cut down a combo. Failure to pay attention to your opponent will lead to Moore guys work and leave you constantly one step behind your opponent and enable him to bait you into longer combo strings. Reading his moves will put you one step ahead of your opponent and thus negate his ability to pull of longer combos.

Vakris_One
04-15-2018, 04:27 PM
Guessing and reading are not the same thing. Guessing occurs when you have not fought a particular opponent before and only know the move set of a particular hero, you guess which attack will come next based off his kit.
A read occurs when you have already established the pattern of moves the players uses in succession, and this read his attack pattern to cut down a combo. Failure to pay attention to your opponent will lead to Moore guys work and leave you constantly one step behind your opponent and enable him to bait you into longer combo strings. Reading his moves will put you one step ahead of your opponent and thus negate his ability to pull of longer combos.
^ Spot on.

Reading means what it says on the tin, i.e. you successfully read your opponents succession of moves and were able to stop or interrupt them based on having the knowledge of their moveset and patterns. Guessing is the lack of knowledge about a character's moveset and failing to detect the opponent's fighting patterns thus you just wing it and hope for the best. Two very different things.

Sneakly20
04-15-2018, 08:58 PM
-130 hp
-Faster jab
-Faster kick
-Feintable jab
-Rotational tracking to the charged jab
-Allow the zone attack to be feintable after first and second swing
-L>H>H chain
-H>H>H chain

With little I know about this game I think these changes would help cent to handle A tier heroes. Not sure if it's enough though because the mixups are kinda bad. I literally don't know though.

Two things I love the most that you said are the cancel on the zone and the rotational tracking on the charged jab. I feel like it should work that way. Be rewarded for a charged jab if they dodge too early or take a gb if they watch their timing. Then you can mix up between light and charged jab.

RenegadeTX2000
04-15-2018, 09:31 PM
Just give Centurion some Highlander tracking love... If they dodge the start up of punch they dodge it, but if they see the start up of punch and the centurion main goes for full charge it tracks the dodge instead giving him a free pounce 35 dmg. He deserves that, and you'd have to respond to his heavy mix ups or give him a chance to put you into a 50/50

EDIT:

He's slow anyway and lacks a dodge attack. Only time he seems fast is when he's mixing you up with his heavies that will all be blocked anyway.

RenegadeTX2000
04-15-2018, 09:55 PM
and i always felt Wardens shoulder bash should be usable only after using a successful heavy opener and in by doing that change, return shoulder bash to how great it was before. I feel For Honor runs better when the best of unblockables are usable after using a heavy. In order to get access to broken moves you have to use a risky attack. So more moves are thrown out making it a more aggressive game.

EvoX.
04-16-2018, 04:15 AM
Just give Centurion some Highlander tracking love... If they dodge the start up of punch they dodge it, but if they see the start up of punch and the centurion main goes for full charge it tracks the dodge instead giving him a free pounce 35 dmg. He deserves that, and you'd have to respond to his heavy mix ups or give him a chance to put you into a 50/50

I like this idea, as someone who has preemptively dodged a Kick only to actually be a Toss and having to eat a 40 damage unblockable.


and i always felt Wardens shoulder bash should be usable only after using a successful heavy opener and in by doing that change, return shoulder bash to how great it was before.

What did his Shoulder Bash do before?

RenegadeTX2000
04-16-2018, 06:49 PM
I like this idea, as someone who has preemptively dodged a Kick only to actually be a Toss and having to eat a 40 damage unblockable.



What did his Shoulder Bash do before?

his shoulder bash actually worked and could respond instantly to any situation. It was just too much because you could use it in neutral but if it was attached to the usage of getting his heavy off, then it'd be fine how it is. Play the campaign mode and use Warden and use nothing but shoulder bash and see how responsive, lagless it truly is.

Also if Centurion only has the health he has, then they need to turn him into more of an offensive weapon as his title suggests. Mix up intensive is a lie right now lol.

RenegadeTX2000
04-16-2018, 07:40 PM
All the changes I suggest is either buffing the overall effectiveness of the Heavy Attack, and making universal changes that effect each character. Like increased chip damage.

The changes I want only supplement the changes ubisoft have already implemented with the current roster. Lawbringer would be that much more of a threat. Block everything but at a cost/reward effect which would grant him shove in return if he prefers turtling over the parry. So if lawbringer blocks a heavy chip and goes for shove into light it would be an even trade in terms of damage but lawbringers massive health winning the exchange.