PDA

View Full Version : AB500 - AB1000 Tested



Hanglands
09-17-2006, 04:13 AM
Hi,

Well, its another quiet day so, once again with nothing better to do....

I wanted to test the AB series bombs because as I said in another thread, I love 'em but think they're a bit underrated.

Im no movie make thats for sure, but heres a couple of quick movies I made of the AB1000 pairs being deployed. The first at about 100m altitude, and 650kmh effectively skip bombing the AB. The second is a dive from 3km.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/th_Ablow.jpg (http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/?action=view&current=Ablow.flv)
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/th_ABfilm.jpg (http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/?action=view&current=ABfilm.flv)

So, to test their efficacy against soft targets I set up a field of Opel trucks measuring 750mx750m with the trucks at 10m spacing. The loadouts tested were AB500, AB500 x2, AB500 x4, AB1000, and AB1000 x2. The bombs were dropped in a vertical dive from altitudes of 3000, 2500, 2000, 1500, 1000, 750 , and 500m.

Here is a summary of the results, the numbers are TARGETS DESTROYED / SPREAD IN METERS.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/ABseriestestdata.jpg

And that information in a graph (the efficacy values are targets destroyed X spread (m) / 100):
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/ABseriestest.jpg

The thing that surprised me about this was that the optimum altitude to release the AB1000 is much higher than I expected (2-2.5km). When I check the recorded tracks, it seems the AB1000 canister deploys the bomblets in five bursts, The first of which is approximately 1second afterrelease, then the subsequent deployments at 1second intervals before finally the canisters seem to detonate at 7seconds after release.

I think for each type and combination of AB bomb, its level of destruction is a balance between achieving a wide enough spread, and yet still maintaining the concentration to damage what you aim at without falling outside the target area. I hope the graph is useful in that respect.

No doubt I'll think of something equally boring to test on my next day off. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Regards.

Hanglands
09-17-2006, 04:13 AM
Hi,

Well, its another quiet day so, once again with nothing better to do....

I wanted to test the AB series bombs because as I said in another thread, I love 'em but think they're a bit underrated.

Im no movie make thats for sure, but heres a couple of quick movies I made of the AB1000 pairs being deployed. The first at about 100m altitude, and 650kmh effectively skip bombing the AB. The second is a dive from 3km.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/th_Ablow.jpg (http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/?action=view&current=Ablow.flv)
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/th_ABfilm.jpg (http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/?action=view&current=ABfilm.flv)

So, to test their efficacy against soft targets I set up a field of Opel trucks measuring 750mx750m with the trucks at 10m spacing. The loadouts tested were AB500, AB500 x2, AB500 x4, AB1000, and AB1000 x2. The bombs were dropped in a vertical dive from altitudes of 3000, 2500, 2000, 1500, 1000, 750 , and 500m.

Here is a summary of the results, the numbers are TARGETS DESTROYED / SPREAD IN METERS.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/ABseriestestdata.jpg

And that information in a graph (the efficacy values are targets destroyed X spread (m) / 100):
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/ABseriestest.jpg

The thing that surprised me about this was that the optimum altitude to release the AB1000 is much higher than I expected (2-2.5km). When I check the recorded tracks, it seems the AB1000 canister deploys the bomblets in five bursts, The first of which is approximately 1second afterrelease, then the subsequent deployments at 1second intervals before finally the canisters seem to detonate at 7seconds after release.

I think for each type and combination of AB bomb, its level of destruction is a balance between achieving a wide enough spread, and yet still maintaining the concentration to damage what you aim at without falling outside the target area. I hope the graph is useful in that respect.

No doubt I'll think of something equally boring to test on my next day off. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Regards.

JtD
09-17-2006, 05:13 AM
The AB are very good weapons if used properly. One option is the release from altitude as you did, almost mandatory for the AB1000. The AB500 however can very well be used from low altitude in a fighterbomber and, deployed this way, work extremly well against columns of armored targets. You need to lob it up in a low angle from very low altitude.

Matz0r
09-17-2006, 05:18 AM
Very interesting, I've always had trouble being efficient with the AB1000's. I've been using them the same way I use AB250/500: shallow dive, release at 500-700m, adjusting speed for spread. I had no idea the AB1000 was multi-release, im gonna try that high speed level drop at maybe 1000m, bet you can cover an entire airfield doing that if you get it right http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Hanglands
09-17-2006, 05:48 AM
Hi,

I didnt try they AB250, as the results from the 500 were so poor. But I reckon even the 250/500 have their uses if you do as JtD said along the axis of a convoy or train.

Antoninus
09-17-2006, 05:55 AM
Very interesting. What delay have you used in these tests?

HellToupee
09-17-2006, 05:57 AM
why not also do SC bombs and compare their effects.

Kernow
09-17-2006, 06:03 AM
What about bomb delay? For the AB bombs the time between weapon release and canister opening is supposed to be the delay you have set. Although even with zero set there seems to be a slight interval between dropping and canister opening.

In game I believe the AB-250 contains anti-personnel bomblets, the AB-500 anti-armour bomblets and the AB-1000 contains incendiaries.

With a max 10 sec delay I find AB-1000 quite good against area targets like airfields when dropped from altitude, although you have to aim long, because the sight doesn't correctly allow for the AB ballistics - it must assume some sort of 'slick' bomb like an SC, PC or SD.

Kernow
09-17-2006, 06:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hanglands:
Hi,

I didnt try they AB250, as the results from the 500 were so poor. But I reckon even the 250/500 have their uses if you do as JtD said along the axis of a convoy or train. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I've seen poor results for the AB-500 in someone elses tests, although they found the 250s to be generally better than the 500. I think the reason was that the 250s actually produce a denser pattern with more bomblets, while the 500 produces a sparse pattern of slightly more powerful bomblets (posssibly anti-armour, as I said above).

Hanglands
09-17-2006, 06:16 AM
I used 0sec delay for all drops in the test.

I did tinker with delay, which delays the time from release to the point of the first detonation. It seems to work on both 500s and 1000s, but with a 10 sec delay from 3km you got exactly a 10sec delay with the 1000s, but somewhat less with the 500s.

This site about munitions dropped on Bristol describes quite a few things : http://fishponds.org.uk/luftbri5.html

TAW_Oilburner
09-17-2006, 10:03 AM
Very good work! That high-alt drop was a real eye opener.

LEBillfish
09-17-2006, 10:12 AM
Just a thought as this is some great data that you are generating.....You need to combine this tests post, with your other.....and continue expanding it as you add to it and alter finding more correct data....In the end once having exausted your tests and finding the correct real life info....You can end the post with some actual comparisons.

Just a thought or you'll end up with numerous threads scattered here to gone.

Tater-SW-
09-17-2006, 11:58 AM
Would have been nice to get some of the US incendiary cluster bombs, we certainly dropped a lot of them (M17---500lb cluster of magnesium bomblets), and M19---220lb cluster of napalm bomblets).

tater

Hanglands
12-28-2006, 12:10 PM
Hi,

Sorry to knock one of my own threads back to the top again, but.....

If you look at the graph in my first post, you may notice the AB 250 isnt in it, elsewhere in this thread I say "Ididnt test the AB250 because the results from the AB500 were so poor".
Well, what a huge glaring mistake that was!

I have been back an revisited the AB series now that I am 4.071m and able to once again move mud online.

My conclusion is that the AB250 is a pretty darn good small area weapon on everything bar armour.

In this short (and poorly made) video the AB1000, AB500pair, and AB250pair, as well as SC250pair, are thrown into a bomber parking area from about 750m. This test is not as exact as the test in my initial post, but it does more closely reflect something you may come accross online, or in an offline campaign.

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/th_bombtestvideo.jpg (http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/?action=view&current=bombtestvideo.flv)

The AB250 pair is the clear winner here, destroying everything. I rather expected it to be a comparitavely feeble weapon. I was surprised how much more effective it was than the blast effect of the two SC250s.

Here are the AB250 and 500 just after deployment...

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/il2fb2006-12-1021-31-18-46.jpg
The 108 Sprengbombe Dickwandig 2 kg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_bomb)

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/il2fb2006-12-1021-30-03-96.jpg
I know people say these are anti-armour bomblets, but I found an IL2 reference stating that they are 74 SD 4HL's, which are actually anti-personell. Maybe thats why I get such poor results with them? Probably someone here knows better than me about these?

If I knew I wasnt going specifically after tanks etc, I would now seriously consider taking AB250s over SC250s or even 500s (remember from my bomb blast table that the SC500 effective blast radius was 80m and was the same for a single SC500 as it was for a pair).

Regards.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/logoHH.jpg (http://www.geocities.com/hanglands/)

Haigotron
12-28-2006, 12:46 PM
my god..to think i've never seen these things in game....the detail that has gone into this sim is incredible!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/haigotron/il2banner.png
The End is Nigh: The World will END in two weeks...be sure!

MEGILE
12-28-2006, 04:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Haigotron:
my god..to think i've never seen these things in game....the detail that has gone into this sim is incredible! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1

I had never looked at the individual bombs.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/7683/starostauc4.jpg
If you see this man.... it's probably too late
Oleg - I was dreaming to make Meteor, but third party didn't make it finally (left unfinished)

ElAurens
12-28-2006, 05:17 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

_____________________________

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/554/elskiubikb4.jpg

"To explain the lure of speed you would have to explain human nature" - T.E. Lawrence

KG66_Gog
12-28-2006, 07:12 PM
Hanglands,

This is excellent research mate, something that is useful to all bomber pilots.....unlike certain other tests that shall remain nameless. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Well done! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://users.tpg.com.au/narsil/gog2.jpg

Viper2005_
12-28-2006, 07:59 PM
You can't pick and choose. He does what he does...

Be thankful!

Manos1
12-29-2006, 07:18 AM
Thank you very much for the time you spend in order to make all this comprehensive to the rest of Hanglands !

And since it is the period for doing so...

Happy new year to you and your family,

Wish new year flood your body with good health, your home with happiness,
your video card and computer with lots of ram and pixel shaders,
your car with more horse power and less fuel consumption ?

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

~S~<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.e-335thgr.com/forum/style_images/335logo.gif
335th GR Dedicated Server Stats (http://www.e-335thgr.com/il2sc/)

Posted Feb 13, 7:47 AM http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/3351091114/p/1
"Why are you guys making stuff up? Nobody touched G2 in this patch or 2 patches ago. It is what it is. Once people saw "109 increased manueverability" and bang, all heads turned on G2 LOL. What`s up with that? I dont know if it`s right or wrong, but i do know that is the same as was in 402 in manueverabiliy department
V! Regards, VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST "

Haigotron
12-29-2006, 10:02 AM
Hanglands, i opened a gift under the xmas tree (a little late i know) and i thought it was you in it...but it was just 1946...actually a IOU written by my brother for 1946...oh well...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/haigotron/il2banner.png
The End is Nigh: The World will END in two weeks...be sure!

Vike
12-29-2006, 11:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hanglands:

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/il2fb2006-12-1021-31-18-46.jpg
The 108 Sprengbombe Dickwandig 2 kg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_bomb)

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/il2fb2006-12-1021-30-03-96.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gosh,what a master piece of software we have between our hands! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

I've never seen it too! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://vike01.free.fr/images/avatars/signIL2.jpg
- AthlonXP 2400Mhz + 1024MB DDR CL 2.0
- Radeon 9800XT 460/790Mhz
- Saitek X-52 + Track IR 4 Pro
- Aka JV69_Vike http://vike01.free.fr/images/avatars/jv69.jpg

Xiolablu3
12-29-2006, 11:44 AM
Nice one, I have never seen these in action either!

I have heard a lot of talk about them but never actually used them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

--------------------------------------------------------------------
"I despise what you say; I will defend to the death your right to say it."
-Voltaire

Hanglands
12-29-2006, 02:42 PM
Hi guys,

I hope this motivates some of you to try the AB250 in a Jabo role, rather than taking the SC series bombs everytime. Given enough time to deploy (750m-1km) they are just the thing agaist soft targets.

@ Manos1 : And a very happy new year to you and yours mate, all the very best.

@ Haigotron : Indeed I was under your tree, at one time, where the hell do you think I got my copy of 1946? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Cheers all.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/logoHH.jpg (http://www.geocities.com/hanglands/)

Friendly_flyer
12-29-2006, 03:45 PM
Thanks for the tip, I think I'll need to give the ABs a try!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Fly friendly!

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a37/Friendly_flyer/WhirlwindforBoB-II.jpg

Visit No 79 Squadron vRAF (http://www.gazzamataz.com/79vRAF/)

Petter B°ckman
Norway

Agamemnon22
12-30-2006, 12:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hanglands:
Hi guys,

I hope this motivates some of you to try the AB250 in a Jabo role, rather than taking the SC series bombs everytime. Given enough time to deploy (750m-1km) they are just the thing agaist soft targets.


</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Absolutely, I'd never known their full potential until this thread. Thanks!!

I actually tried something slightly more evil -- using them against formations of bombers. After about 20 minutes of practice, I was able to take 2 planes out of a echelon formation of 4 with 4XAB500 on a Ju-88.. the lobbing is tricky, but if done right, the cloud of bomblets is pretty effective. I'll post tracks when I get good at it, but so far what I'm trying is flying head on at the formation, slightly below, then flaring and popping off the bombs such that they disperse along the flight path of the bombers.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

---------------------------------
http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/agamemnon22/Pe2sig.jpg

Hanglands
12-30-2006, 03:16 AM
Agamemnon22, heres a couple of tests I did with the AB1000 Click (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/1531018694?r=9961070794#9961070794)over bomber formations, it include dive bombing and level bombing.

And if its just pure destruction in the air you want, you cant beat this Click (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/7661037794/p/1)

Check my sig pic/link for more.

Cheers.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m203/ChickenHawk_2006/logoHH.jpg (http://www.geocities.com/hanglands/)