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XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 07:15 PM
I'm close to replacing my GF3 Ti450-64MB with an ATI 9800SE-128MB ($170). From what I can tell, the trade-offs between the 9800Pro and the 9800SE are smaller than the $100 cost difference. The Pro has pixel fillrate of 3.04, and the SE 2.6, and the engine clock speeds are 380 & 325 respectively, while the memory clock speeds are 680 & 580.

I'm looking to bridge about a one-year gap before putting another system together (64-bit?), and so that's the life expectancy of the card, and running FB is the primary focus.$170 seems a pretty good price for a higher-end graphics card.

Any comments, or observations, particularly about the difference between the Pro and SE models, or the NVidia and ATI (as relating to performance in FB)? I'm hoping to see a boost in graphics.

I've nearly made the purchase, and a little encouragement will probably seal the deal.

--system spec--
AMD Athlon XP 1900
Abit NF7-S
2x512MB PC3200
60GB 7200rpm serial ATA-150 (adaptor)
Soundblaster Live 5.1

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 07:15 PM
I'm close to replacing my GF3 Ti450-64MB with an ATI 9800SE-128MB ($170). From what I can tell, the trade-offs between the 9800Pro and the 9800SE are smaller than the $100 cost difference. The Pro has pixel fillrate of 3.04, and the SE 2.6, and the engine clock speeds are 380 & 325 respectively, while the memory clock speeds are 680 & 580.

I'm looking to bridge about a one-year gap before putting another system together (64-bit?), and so that's the life expectancy of the card, and running FB is the primary focus.$170 seems a pretty good price for a higher-end graphics card.

Any comments, or observations, particularly about the difference between the Pro and SE models, or the NVidia and ATI (as relating to performance in FB)? I'm hoping to see a boost in graphics.

I've nearly made the purchase, and a little encouragement will probably seal the deal.

--system spec--
AMD Athlon XP 1900
Abit NF7-S
2x512MB PC3200
60GB 7200rpm serial ATA-150 (adaptor)
Soundblaster Live 5.1

Buzz_25th
10-08-2003, 07:18 PM
Just make sure you get all the nvidia drivers from your system. Use a clean up utility.

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XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 07:22 PM
Sounds good to me-the other option is a 9600pro or a 9500pro if you can find one.

As buzz said make sure you get all the remenants of old nvidia drivers OUT OF THE SYSTEM-including nvidia registry entries and nvidi.dll driver files in your system 32folder-you'll also have to manually delete the nvidia folder in Chttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gifrograms.

rogo

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XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 07:37 PM
I was sent an ATI 9200SE 128mb by mistake but I tested it. I then got my ATI 9200 128mb regular. I honestly can't tell the difference between the two. The 9800's are probebly the same way but that's just a semi-educated guess.

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XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 07:56 PM
The biggest difference between the SE and the Pro are the pixel pipelines. In the SE you have 4 versus the 8 in the Pro, what difference will that make is negligible unless you use very high resolution or use very large maps/missions. If your CPU (recommend upgrade to a XP 2500+)is strong enough and you have plenty of RAM you will notice very little difference normally. I have been thinking myself of buying one as a backup unless I get lucky on Ebay for another 9800 Pro.
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XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 08:02 PM
There are several modificatoins of R9800 SE. One has red PCB and L shaped memory modules (the situation is similar to R9500). This card can be softmoded to open other 4 pipelines. This card costs $250. The other produced by Sapphire has black PCB and inline memory modules. This card can't be moded to true Pro and it costs about $180.

Again im not talking about R9500 situation. Check out newegg.com, it carries both R9800 SE cards.

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 08:16 PM
Good post.

I have a geforce 4 4200ti and was looking at the 9800 pro. I didn't like the price tag.

However, hearing this about the 9800SE 128 has sparked some interest.

Will I see a noticable different between the 9800SE and the gf 4 4200ti (msi) ?

S!
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XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 08:22 PM
You will probably see not only a quality increase as well as a frame rate increase, but it is hard to say it really depends on your PC configuration. But as stated above be sure you get the Red PCB card, and try pricewatch they have them for around $170. The biggest thing will be DX9 support which we will start seeing used regurarly next year.
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XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 08:53 PM
If I may make a recommendation....

The 9800 SE besides having only 4 pipelines, also has the memory clocked less than a 9800 non-Pro.

For a bit more money, you can go with a 9800 and have the same exact card as a 9800 Pro with slightly less core and memory speed. 380/680MHz for the Pro, 325/580MHz for the non-Pro. The SE is clocked at 325/500MHz

Looking around the internet, you can find the GigaCube 9800 non-pro for about $250.00USD. http://www.gameve.com is out of stock right now, but this company http://www.komusa.com/giatira9812a.html has them in stock.

I've read a few reviews and GigaCube seems to be a decent company with a good product. The card comes with the necessary cables and adapters plus, it comes with the full version of Delta Force - BlackHawk Down.

Of course, that game may be a POS, I don't know, but for me, the 9800 provides more bang for the buck than a 9800SE. I've seen them as low as $249.00.

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Message Edited on 10/08/0303:58PM by SlickStick

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 08:56 PM
Of course, the above post would be useful if you're not into playing around with software mods or high overclocking.

Most 9800s can be overclocked to near 9800 Pro speeds, too, but it's much less farther to go from 9800 to 9800 Pro, than 9800SE to 9800 Pro speeds, IMHO.

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XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 09:09 PM
If the only game you play is Fb or another game that uses OpenGL, I would recommend an Nvidia card. Even a 5900Non-U can often beat a 9800 Pro in OpenGL. That is why you probably see more than your fair share of Nvidia fans on Il2s forums, IL2 runs fantastic on their hardware.

If you plan on playing any other games though, I would go with ATi. Here is a quote from a review recently done about the quality of the two companies drivers in particular:

"ATI is still the recommendation, but NVIDIA is not a bad card to have by any stretch of the imagination. We still urge our readers not to buy a card until the game they want to play shows up on the street. For those of you who need a card now, we'll be doing a value card round up as part of this series as well.

Right now NVIDIA is at a disadvantage; ATI's hardware is much easier to code for and the performance on Microsoft's HLSL compiler clearly favors the R3x0 over the NV3x. NVIDIA has a long road ahead of them in order to improve their compilers to the point where game developers won't have to hand-code special NV3x codepaths, but for now ATI seems to have won the battle. Next year will be the year of DX9 titles, and it will be under the next generation of games that we will finally be able to crown a true DX9 winner. Until then, anyone's guess is fair game.

The new 52.14 drivers are much better than either the 51.xx or the 45.xx series. The image quality issues are corrected from 51.xx, and a lot of speed has been inked out over the 45.xx drivers. We have actually been very impressed with the speed, image quality, and playability enhancements we have seen. As long as NVIDIA doesn't take a step backwards before the official 50 series drivers are released, we think everyone who owns a GeForce FX card will be very pleased with what they get. NVIDIA should have never pushed the press to benchmark with the 51 series as no one used it for Half Life 2 and in the end the bugs in the drivers did nothing more than tarnish NVIDIA's name. Regaining the credibility they have lost will definitely take NVIDIA some time."

[edit]- About Jedi Knight(OpenGL game)
"In looking at these numbers, NVIDIA still leads at both resolutions. This isn't really surprising as NVIDIA seems to consistently lead ATI in OpenGL performance. Of course, the industry (with the noble exception of John Carmack's Id team) is moving towards DirectX as the API of choice. Whether that is a fortunate or unfortunate thing remains to be seen."


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Message Edited on 10/08/0304:11PM by US_8th_Dosiere

Buzz_25th
10-08-2003, 09:16 PM
Any release date for the 52.14 drivers? I'm not going to bail on the 5900 until I try them.

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XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 09:43 PM
This is card that I thinking on:

http://gameve.com/store/gameve_viewitem.asp?idproduct=1386

They also have the Sapphire version:

http://gameve.com/store/gameve_viewitem.asp?idproduct=1373

Thanks for the advice about the NVidia drivers. I'll just go ahead, reformat and a do clean OS install (after backing up selected files).

The Gigacube card looks nice, but I don't know if I'm willing to drop the extra $80.

About the CPU, I've noticed that it's utilization rate is running high, and so that's next on the list (just replaced the mainboard (Abit NF7-S) about 3 months ago, and so it'll handle a faster CPU). I'm waiting for the price for the Athlon 400 FSB CPU's to drop some more.

Once again, thanks for all the information on the different versions of the 9800.

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 09:45 PM
ATO 9800 pro $199
http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_attrib.php?page_id=5&sortby=popular-&vendors%5B%5D=0&popup1%5B%5D=10%3A387&popup1_attr_id%5B%5D=387&popup2%5B%5D=0&popup2_attr_id%5B%5D=596&popup3%5B%5D=50%3A371&popup3_attr_id%5B%5D=371&popup4%5B%5D=0&lo_p=0&hi_p=0&form_keyword=&ut=18d2164aec480c09

I would go with the pro..it will last longer
S!

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XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 09:50 PM
They've got a wrong price there ... click thru it and the cart price is $399.65:

http://www.pcrush.com/prodspec.asp?ln=1&itemno=75482&refid=1057

Do you think that they've give it up for the $199?

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 09:55 PM
I have not looked in a while and the way prices drop on this stuff...yes i did, but i found out right after the postARRRG that it was a typo, of course one might go there and raise all kind of hell and get it for that price /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 09:58 PM
Ya, called them up, but they weren't going to honor the $199 price (they actually have a disclaimer on their website regarding typo's).

Guess it was too much to hope for.

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 10:25 PM
perioikos wrote:
- Ya, called them up, but they weren't going to honor
- the $199 price (they actually have a disclaimer on
- their website regarding typo's).
-
- Guess it was too much to hope for.
-
-

Bet yer asse, I'd have ordered 5./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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