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View Full Version : Still Don't See The Logic In Giving More XP In 4v4s Than Duels, Ubisoft...



Mighty_Mackerel
04-04-2018, 08:56 PM
It's incredibly frustrating trying to level up a new character that you're trying out and the most efficient way to do that is 4v4 modes, but because the character you're using is rep 0 with no gear stats and everyone else is maxed out in their gear so you're constantly getting killed in 2 or 3 shots, the odds of doing well is slim and therefore you get even less xp for performing poorly.

Either change Duel modes so they give just as much xp as 4v4, or at least make an alternate mode of 4v4 where gear stats are turned off. In fact, can you do that in a custom match?

MumfordDaHound
04-04-2018, 09:32 PM
Just play vs AI in 4v4 to get your guy up to a decent level. You get some gear and get some experience actually using a new character.

Mighty_Mackerel
04-04-2018, 10:04 PM
Or I could do that... but still, duels should give more experience, y'know what I mean? I mean, why does a mode that allows you to get easy kills by ganking and/or using feats give you more xp when in duel mode you have to rely on our individual skill and no gear stats or feats, and it gives way less xp? Doesn't make sense to me.

Cliff_001
04-04-2018, 10:12 PM
It's based on time, it takes longer to finish a dominion that a duel.

UbiJurassic
04-05-2018, 01:48 AM
I totally get the sentiment behind the post, Mighty_Mackerel. It can be super intimidating or difficult to go into a 4v4 with a new hero that has yet to gain enough gear to close the GS gap. However, the reason for the XP difference is to level out the XP a player can gain given the time commitment. While game time per match can widely differ for players, Dominion games tend to last longer than the average Duel. In the time frame of one typical Dominion game, you could probably play 2 or 3 Duels depending on how many rounds you go and the difficulty of the opponent. Therefore, the XP gain is normalized between the two modes.

RoosterIlluzion
04-05-2018, 03:01 AM
Not too bright then are you? 4x4 game modes take longer!

HazelrahFirefly
04-05-2018, 03:03 AM
Not too bright then are you? 4x4 game modes take longer!

Don't be an a$$

CandleInTheDark
04-05-2018, 03:17 AM
Longer duels and shorter (ie steamroll) dominions can be around the same length but on balance dominion is probably three times longer than duel and does require the extra xp. While perhaps it might be a good thing for longer duels to get more xp and shorter dominions to get less, all in all the devs are trying for roughly equal reward per time.

As someone who doesn't play many duels and certainly doesn't have a rep only on duels I can't say how close to balanced rewards over time are but dominion all in all does need a higher xp gain than duel.

Mighty_Mackerel
04-05-2018, 05:29 AM
Not too bright then are you? 4x4 game modes take longer!

No need to be rude bro, I know full well why 4v4 mode gives more xp now as it has been explained to me in this thread, but I'm arguing to Ubisoft that that logic (longer games give more xp) is flawed and I'm giving what I believe are valid points as to why duel modes should give more xp. Feel free to disagree though.

Mighty_Mackerel
04-05-2018, 05:31 AM
I totally get the sentiment behind the post, Mighty_Mackerel. It can be super intimidating or difficult to go into a 4v4 with a new hero that has yet to gain enough gear to close the GS gap. However, the reason for the XP difference is to level out the XP a player can gain given the time commitment. While game time per match can widely differ for players, Dominion games tend to last longer than the average Duel. In the time frame of one typical Dominion game, you could probably play 2 or 3 Duels depending on how many rounds you go and the difficulty of the opponent. Therefore, the XP gain is normalized between the two modes.

I see. Then at the very least, perhaps you can take my second suggestion into consideration about having an alternate 4v4 mode without gear stats or abilities... sort of like what you guys did with realistic mode. Just some food for thought. Thanks for the info.

Mighty_Mackerel
04-05-2018, 05:33 AM
Longer duels and shorter (ie steamroll) dominions can be around the same length but on balance dominion is probably three times longer than duel and does require the extra xp. While perhaps it might be a good thing for longer duels to get more xp and shorter dominions to get less, all in all the devs are trying for roughly equal reward per time.

As someone who doesn't play many duels and certainly doesn't have a rep only on duels I can't say how close to balanced rewards over time are but dominion all in all does need a higher xp gain than duel.

Alright, that makes sense.

RoosterIlluzion
04-05-2018, 08:47 AM
No need to be rude bro, I know full well why 4v4 mode gives more xp now as it has been explained to me in this thread, but I'm arguing to Ubisoft that that logic (longer games give more xp) is flawed and I'm giving what I believe are valid points as to why duel modes should give more xp. Feel free to disagree though.

Damn. For those of you that think I'm rude for what I said, need to toughen up before you leave mom & dad's basement. The logic that longer games requiring more effort give more xp is NOT flawed.

Imagine you're a landscaper & someone hires you. You need to mow the front & back lawn, dig several holes and plant new shrubs, and lay a brick walkway. Let's say you get paid $3,000 to do the work & buy materials.
The next week you get a job to mow just the front & back lawn. Should you still get paid $3,000 ?

The same logic applies to the XP you get for different game modes. Dominion takes longer and requires you to capture zones & defend them, fight multiple enemies (sometimes 2 or more vs 1), and revive teammates (if you're nice).
Duels require you to kill one enemy.

SpaceJim12
04-05-2018, 09:46 AM
Longer duels and shorter (ie steamroll) dominions can be around the same length but on balance dominion is probably three times longer than duel and does require the extra xp. While perhaps it might be a good thing for longer duels to get more xp and shorter dominions to get less, all in all the devs are trying for roughly equal reward per time.

In Dead by Daylight exist the same (kind of) thing. And I see many players did same one thing, artificially stretched matches, while try to grind XP. So, there could be problems with this extra XP gain in the same way. Let loosing opponents retake the zone to stretched Dominion match and all this.

CandleInTheDark
04-05-2018, 09:50 AM
In Dead by Daylight exist the same (kind of) thing. And I see many players did same one thing, artificially stretched matches, while try to grind XP. So, there could be problems with this extra XP gain in the same way. Let loosing opponents retake the zone to stretched Dominion match and all this.

Ah yeah I can see the potential issue there.

swiss_soldier_1
04-05-2018, 01:16 PM
this "longer=more xp" thing would make sense if, playing duel, i hadnt to pass through infinite loading screens that are actually longer than the duel itself sometimes. the xp gained needs to be increased, there is not much more to say

Crosstails20
04-05-2018, 04:56 PM
Well, you do have to take into consideration the length of the matches. 4 vs 4 playlists are usually games like Tribute and Dominion which can take anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes, while duels take right around 5 minutes. So it is more like a balancing act for EXP earning because you can do more duels in a shorter ammount of time than a Dominion match.

Tyrjo
04-05-2018, 07:56 PM
Duels should be the best place to level up and gain steel period. Everyone is playing Gankminion instead of learning how to play the game properly. The skillbased game modes are dying and they need population. Devs, do something!

Mighty_Mackerel
04-05-2018, 11:03 PM
Damn. For those of you that think I'm rude for what I said, need to toughen up before you leave mom & dad's basement. The logic that longer games requiring more effort give more xp is NOT flawed.

Imagine you're a landscaper & someone hires you. You need to mow the front & back lawn, dig several holes and plant new shrubs, and lay a brick walkway. Let's say you get paid $3,000 to do the work & buy materials.
The next week you get a job to mow just the front & back lawn. Should you still get paid $3,000 ?

The same logic applies to the XP you get for different game modes. Dominion takes longer and requires you to capture zones & defend them, fight multiple enemies (sometimes 2 or more vs 1), and revive teammates (if you're nice).
Duels require you to kill one enemy.

Telling me to toughen up for simply telling you that there was no need to be rude, lol, ironic coming from the person insulting me from behind the safety of their computer screen. We're here to have a civil conversation, I was simply pointing out your immaturity to the rest of the mature ones here, so grow up.

Now that we got the introductions out of the way (feel free to insult me again, I don't care anymore) and you've decided that you want to use analogies here, let me use an analogy that's a little closer to the situation: you and your landscaping TEAM get paid to mow the front and back lawn, dig several holes and plant new shrubs and lay a brick walkway with all the tools you need and more at your disposal. The next day you get hired again for the same job but this time you're on your own with no tools at your disposal... you would think that the guy who had to do all of the work on his own wouldn't get paid any less.

I apply the same logic to dominion and duels in regards to skill. Yes, in dominion you have to capture points and defend them, fight multiple enemies and revive teammates... but you do that all with the help of your team, gear stats and feats... that's not a hard thing to do at all. Or, the reverse happens where you get completely destroyed because you have no gear stats or feats and your team is goofing off... you didn't even have a chance to begin with and that's imbalanced if you ask me. So many times I've wiped the enemy team easily because me and my teammates had all our gear maxed out and the enemy team was either a bunch of noobs or veteran players trying out new characters, why give so much xp to someone who barely had to try and give less xp to someone who couldn't even do anything because the odds were so heavily stacked against them in the first place? I would argue duels take more skill because yes you have to kill one enemy, but you have to do it best out of 5 times and with no gear stats, no feats and no teammates. In fact, if we're talking time length in relation to xp rewards I would even argue that duels can take just as long as a dominion match because again, it's best out of 5 and if you're both good players you will go all 5 rounds, and if there's turtling going on it'll take even longer. Then finally, there's the character select and loading screen in between matches and we all know how long that takes.

The amount of time it takes to complete something shouldn't matter in my opinion because there are plenty of tasks that take a long time to complete but are easy and simple to do otherwise. In my previous job I worked at Pizza Hut doing mindless tasks like delivering pizza, washing dishes, filling dozens of cups with marina sauce, sweeping the floors, etc. for 7 to 8 hours in the day, whereas the managers did everything that I did as well and even more on top of managing the store for the same amount of hours (and sometimes an hour or two less) and got paid more than I do, because it was harder work.

This is why I brought up my second suggestion in making a version of dominion mode without gear stats and feats, I think we can all agree dominion would take a lot more skill and effort without the use of gear stats and feats and would place everyone on much more even ground. HOWEVER, having said all that, I do see the merit in what you're saying and what Ubisoft is trying to do to balance xp rewards... which is why, again, I also suggested making 4v4 modes with no gear stats and feats to make things feel less excruciating and more balanced. Because as much as I and others would like to see an increase in xp in duel modes, that obviously isn't going to happen.

Tirik22x
04-06-2018, 12:45 AM
Bc duels are wayyyy faster than other modes. It actually makes perfect sense.

Tyrjo
04-06-2018, 07:14 AM
Bc duels are wayyyy faster than other modes. It actually makes perfect sense.

Not necessarily. Loading and queuing take up a long time than the actual duel. In higher skill brackets and tighter duels they can be quite long actually.

RoosterIlluzion
04-06-2018, 09:09 AM
Well, you do have to take into consideration the length of the matches. 4 vs 4 playlists are usually games like Tribute and Dominion which can take anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes, while duels take right around 5 minutes. So it is more like a balancing act for EXP earning because you can do more duels in a shorter ammount of time than a Dominion match.


Duels should be the best place to level up and gain steel period. Everyone is playing Gankminion instead of learning how to play the game properly. The skillbased game modes are dying and they need population. Devs, do something!

Sorry, but ganking in dominion is a team-based strategy that is completely allowable. The same skills required to fight in 1v1 still apply to 4v4 games. It's actually the lack of any real fair balance, and the various metas, that keep people from playing 1v1. It's just not fun.
Loading screens happen during 4v4 matches as well, so that doesn't constitute part of the length of your duel. Since duels never last longer than dominion matches, there's no reasonable justification to give even the same XP for them since you could then just do multiple duels in the same time as one dominion match, getting more xp.
Now if you're talking about duels in the ranked tourneys, then you're absolutely right, there should be increased XP because you have to wait sometimes 10 minutes between fights.

Alas, no one has proposed any logical reasoning why duels should get more XP, so it probably won't get a boost to the levels you want. Some kind of increase could happen though because logic is one of those things some people just can't comprehend.