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View Full Version : LOW tier hero vs s-tier hero... WHAT IS THE RESULT?



matt89connor
03-29-2018, 12:31 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4he4cqr6Q0

SO the famous YTubber, at 6:20 start face the valk WITH HIS GLADIATOR, but when he's near death, he spam zone forever....why i put THIS on Discussion? cuz i want that the DEVS watch this video and understand how unbalnce is the game, and the peolpe who was choices to TEST heroes before they come out, aren't good example.

watch better in the future UBI and try to LEARN from us

Charmzzz
03-29-2018, 01:13 PM
Uhm, I saw the most underpowered hero (Valk) going 3:0 on a Zerker, Warden, Lawbringer in the first fights. Seems like player skill > tier lists, eh? ;)

Btw it was only ONE round the Glad won. And he used Zone 2 times in a row in the end. How OP IS THAT!? Are you serious? The Valk won every Duel vs higher tiered characters in that video. You are probably just too bad to win, S-tier heroes wont help with that as you can see in the vid...

SpaceJim12
03-29-2018, 01:36 PM
Are you serious about that video? o_o
Sure, game have balance issues, but your specific example have nothing in common with this point.
First of all, there are not much Glad could do, cause all fents did not work and Valky parry/guard almos everything. And second, in fourth round Valky spam Spear Sweep (if I correct with move name) same as Glad spam zone, and...so what?

Vakris_One
03-29-2018, 02:45 PM
Boy did you pick the wrong video to showcase tier class imbalance. This video clearly shows that skill beats out hero tier lists. That Valk player was fantastic with her. Seems like you completely ignored what the video was showing you and just wanted to rag on Spliced for some personal reasons.

Dry.Fish
03-29-2018, 03:37 PM
Whiffed two GB in the third round and still won against the Gladiator.

Card1acArrest
03-29-2018, 04:03 PM
it also showed that valk must land 5-8 successful hits to kill somebody. many of those lights with heavy punishers if parried.

some of the first opponents were not very good. getting GBed while dodging in front of her..

it also showed valk taking high risk all fights being the aggressor.

i am very impressed with her deflects. i can understand the LB shove/top light. but the other cases. wow. very much impressed!

whiffing those GBs means eating 2 heavies normally. glad was not so good?


so totally off topic, im really impressed with this performance :D.

Hormly
03-29-2018, 05:27 PM
Glad zone is one of the silliest moves in the game

SpaceJim12
03-29-2018, 05:45 PM
Glad zone is one of the silliest moves in the game

Why is that? Cause it open up with shield bash?

Hormly
03-29-2018, 06:40 PM
Why is that? Cause it open up with shield bash?

Correct, even if i dodge it I'll still eat the second hit unless my guard was already on my right before i dodged. Fights can be won against heavies by only using this move.

Very very cheap, glad didnt need one more unblockable.

Charmzzz
04-04-2018, 09:14 AM
Correct, even if i dodge it I'll still eat the second hit unless my guard was already on my right before i dodged. Fights can be won against heavies by only using this move.

Very very cheap, glad didnt need one more unblockable.

Not true. You can dodge the bash and not only block but even parry the followup-hit of a Glad.

Glad Zone: 600ms for the Bash, 600ms for the Hit

Now we look at side dodge recoveries (because that is the counter): most side dodge recoveries are between 500 and 700ms (Conq @800ms). So, you dodge the Bash and you have, depending on your Character, 700 - 300 (200 for Conq)ms left. Blocking is definitely possible, and parrying for alot of Characters, too.

BarbeQMichael
04-04-2018, 09:50 AM
Not true. You can dodge the bash and not only block but even parry the followup-hit of a Glad.

Glad Zone: 600ms for the Bash, 600ms for the Hit

Now we look at side dodge recoveries (because that is the counter): most side dodge recoveries are between 500 and 700ms (Conq @800ms). So, you dodge the Bash and you have, depending on your Character, 700 - 300 (200 for Conq)ms left. Blocking is definitely possible, and parrying for alot of Characters, too.

If the heavy comes in 600ms, and his (warlord) dodge recovery is 600ms+100ms for guardchange, wouldn't that mean he is unable to block it if his guard was not already on his right?

Charmzzz
04-04-2018, 09:57 AM
If the heavy comes in 600ms, and his (warlord) dodge recovery is 600ms+100ms for guardchange, wouldn't that mean he is unable to block it if his guard was not already on his right?

I have no idea how you come to that conclusion.

Glad Zone, Bash and Hit: 1200ms for full move.
600ms for Bash - you dodge - you have some ms left until Glad finishes the Bash, you go into recovery phase
600ms for Hit - Glad will auto-initiate (if not feinted) a 600ms Attack after the Bash animation has finished - your timeframe + the leftover ms from before (or - your leftover from your recovery phase) is your timewindow to change your block or even parry

Some Characters have a bigger timewindow than others, but everybody can dodge and block it. Everyone has at least a timewindow of 200ms or more to block / parry.

Edit: if you got hit by the Bash, then yes, you cannot block the Hit if that is what you meant. But that is how the move is intended to work. Bash for stun, stagger and guaranteed hit.

BarbeQMichael
04-04-2018, 10:06 AM
I have no idea how you come to that conclusion.

Glad Zone, Bash and Hit: 1200ms for full move.
600ms for Bash - you dodge - you have some ms left until Glad finishes the Bash, you go into recovery phase
600ms for Hit - Glad will auto-initiate (if not feinted) a 600ms Attack after the Bash animation has finished - your timeframe + the leftover ms from before (or - your leftover from your recovery phase) is your timewindow to change your block or even parry

Some Characters have a bigger timewindow than others, but everybody can dodge and block it. Everyone has at least a timewindow of 200ms or more to block / parry.

I understood that when you dodge the bash, you enter the recovery phase. After the bash comes the heavy which is 600ms, and if your recovery is 600ms or longer you cannot change guard in time for it.


I also recall reading from the framedata that if you dont queue attack or gb mid-dodge it extends the recovery for additional 300ms, no idea how that works with guardchange.

I can also be completely wrong, haven't tested that situation in training mode.

Charmzzz
04-04-2018, 10:25 AM
I understood that when you dodge the bash, you enter the recovery phase. After the bash comes the heavy which is 600ms, and if your recovery is 600ms or longer you cannot change guard in time for it.


I also recall reading from the framedata that if you dont queue attack or gb mid-dodge it extends the recovery for additional 300ms, no idea how that works with guardchange.

I can also be completely wrong, haven't tested that situation in training mode.

But you have to dodge the Bash before it connects @600ms. So there is some time left in the Bash animation of the Glad and your recovery already starts. The followup hit will initiate after the Bash animation is finished for an additional 600ms timeframe.

Vakris_One
04-04-2018, 02:44 PM
The thing that makes Glad's zone so strong is that it is so safe because he can cancel it as soon as he sees that his bash has missed. I don't think any character can dodge the bash and throw an attack quick enough to punish him for cancelling it. It's the second safest zone in the game after Conqueror.

HazelrahFirefly
04-04-2018, 02:53 PM
Uhm, I saw the most underpowered hero (Valk) going 3:0 on a Zerker, Warden, Lawbringer in the first fights. Seems like player skill > tier lists, eh? ;)

Btw it was only ONE round the Glad won. And he used Zone 2 times in a row in the end. How OP IS THAT!? Are you serious? The Valk won every Duel vs higher tiered characters in that video. You are probably just too bad to win, S-tier heroes wont help with that as you can see in the vid...

You guys never change. Again just telling someome they suck. I despise your elitism.

Charmzzz
04-04-2018, 03:12 PM
The thing that makes Glad's zone so strong is that it is so safe because he can cancel it as soon as he sees that his bash has missed. I don't think any character can dodge the bash and throw an attack quick enough to punish him for cancelling it. It's the second safest zone in the game after Conqueror.

Dodge Attacks? But yes, it is a super-safe Zone, no question.


You guys never change. Again just telling someome they suck. I despise your elitism.

I know the OP from different threads and he always searched for excuses why he lost. Everything is OP and there are no counters to a quadrizillion moves in the game, except the Characters he is playing. Btw he is completely ignoring the fact that you can see a Valk in the video going rampage on several higher tiered Characters, but the title of the thread is implying that you have no chance as a C-Tier against a S-Tier Character with the example of a Glad "spamming" Zone (which he used twice in the Duel). How much more false info can a thread contain!?

Vakris_One
04-04-2018, 04:14 PM
Dodge Attacks? But yes, it is a super-safe Zone, no question.
Good point, dodge attacks are viable as far as I know. I have gotten mine blocked on occassion but that's because I waited for too long before intiating the dodge attack. Still, a very safe zone it doth make.



I know the OP from different threads and he always searched for excuses why he lost. Everything is OP and there are no counters to a quadrizillion moves in the game, except the Characters he is playing. Btw he is completely ignoring the fact that you can see a Valk in the video going rampage on several higher tiered Characters, but the title of the thread is implying that you have no chance as a C-Tier against a S-Tier Character with the example of a Glad "spamming" Zone (which he used twice in the Duel). How much more false info can a thread contain!?
I agree, for what it's worth. The OP made claims that were proven to be false by the very video they used as "proof" of their claims, the irony of which is quite hilarious to be honest. Almost as funny as that guy who made a video saying "I can 3-0 this Orochi by just using 2 moves with the Centurion, just watch!" and then in the first 2 minutes of his very own video he failed to 3-0 the Orochi multiple times while using more than 6 moves in desperation.

It's not elitism to call someone out on their false claims, aka bull poop. Especially when the OP almost does it to themselves :)

Charmzzz
04-04-2018, 05:00 PM
Thing is I didn't insult him in the first place. I only said that picking a S-Tier Hero won't help him win, cause if he is bad he will loose anyway even to C-Tier Heroes.

HazelrahFirefly
04-04-2018, 06:52 PM
Thing is I didn't insult him in the first place. I only said that picking a S-Tier Hero won't help him win, cause if he is bad he will loose anyway even to C-Tier Heroes.

That's a bit iffy in terms of phrasing, but if its what you actually meant, then everyone should agree. Might want to watch your phrasing because that first post of yours absolutely reads as an insult.

Btw, I agree with literally everything you guys are saying, I'm just tired of seeing insults. If you think someone is just whining then either try to help, or IGNORE it. You never have to comment saying someome sucks.

BarbeQMichael
04-04-2018, 10:16 PM
But you have to dodge the Bash before it connects @600ms. So there is some time left in the Bash animation of the Glad and your recovery already starts. The followup hit will initiate after the Bash animation is finished for an additional 600ms timeframe.

Sounds logical if one manages to dodge the bash early enough. I would like to change it such way (preferably just getting rid of the bash but anyway) that it doesn't matter how fast you dodged, ie that you dodged 100 or 200ms (depending on hero) before the bash would have connected. But so that if you just dodged it, you could also block/parry the heavy. Now you can't if you dodged so that you had less than 100-200ms before the impact with certain heroes.

SA1MON_Majestic
04-10-2018, 07:37 PM
The main issue, like someone said, is how safe it is. You get the bash then free attack, if you whiff then just cancel it, and if their recovery is long enough get a free gb. Plus since the bash is harder to read, especially for new players, as long as you mix up a little then its guaranteed. Its the problem of having a mix-up and stamina beast like glad and giving him an easy way to trip anyone up, toe-stab not included.