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View Full Version : At this point Iíd rather the turtle meta, than the assassin meta.



lMoosel
03-24-2018, 02:39 AM
Itís getting old fighting nothing but assains, back dodge is still one of the best moves in the game. It just gets old queing up for duels and brawls and fighting nothing but assains with the occasional kensei or conq in there. I miss the days when youíd actually see some hero variety, hell I ran into a rep 48 valk the other day and we must of played a good 8+ matches it was refreshing.

Cliff_001
03-24-2018, 03:00 AM
Assassins have been the meta ever since the game came out, nothing's changed.

Animaeus
03-24-2018, 03:19 AM
Backpedalling has always been stupid and entirely too effective. This is nothing new.

But they actually recently said they're finally going to do something about it.

[edited for language - UbiInsulin]

WastedPunk
03-24-2018, 07:33 PM
But they actually recently said they're finally going to do something about it.
I bet they are gonna do something that will make the backdodge completly useless and in turn,make assassins useless.
It's never a fix with Ubisoft,it's either a hard buff or a hard nerf

SerSine
03-24-2018, 09:04 PM
Itís getting old fighting nothing but assains, back dodge is still one of the best moves in the game. It just gets old queing up for duels and brawls and fighting nothing but assains with the occasional kensei or conq in there. I miss the days when youíd actually see some hero variety, hell I ran into a rep 48 valk the other day and we must of played a good 8+ matches it was refreshing.

Anytime I dodge back I get guard broken the tracking is excellent, try it out. After a hit. Or dodge forward. No need to rush.

XJadeDragoonX
03-24-2018, 09:36 PM
If we go by the stats of the season 4 numbers, with only berserker, kensei, and conq seeing a change in actual balance, I'd say this isn't the assassin meta. The only assassin's at the top of the tier list are shaman and pk. And I never face either of them in duel. If anything I would say it's the hybrid meta because that's what I mostly see. But it also depends on what elvle you play. On lower skill levels you're more likely to see an assassin

Oupyz
03-24-2018, 09:49 PM
If we go by the stats of the season 4 numbers, with only berserker, kensei, and conq seeing a change in actual balance, I'd say this isn't the assassin meta. The only assassin's at the top of the tier list are shaman and pk. And I never face either of them in duel. If anything I would say it's the hybrid meta because that's what I mostly see. But it also depends on what elvle you play. On lower skill levels you're more likely to see an assassin

++++

its rare to see assassins in duels i agree :)

but back dodge is broken non-theless

XJadeDragoonX
03-24-2018, 10:25 PM
Yeah I agree. Back dodge is powerful. But again I think it's because people don't know how to deal with it. I get guard broken during back dodge allllll the time. You gotta take advantage when they first go out of stamina because the first thing they do is back dodge. So let's say they do a feint and go out of stamina, just keep hitting guard break. They won't be able to move away. They'll have to keep countering. But once they get out of your grasps, they're gone

Baturai
03-24-2018, 10:28 PM
Not every Assassin is on the Same Level when it comes to "backdodge". Shaman Pk Shinobi are the ones you should blame they have very fast backdodge recovery. I am not sure about Berserker tho.
I always get *** whopped with my Orochi when i get out of stamina. back dodge is a suicide. v.s conq ? you simply lost XD

XJadeDragoonX
03-24-2018, 10:30 PM
Berserker back dodge is meh. People catch me really often. Pk moves the fastest and then shaman. Orochi, berserker, and glad are pretty average if you ask me. Not much of a difference from the rest of the cast

Burn-The-Sinner
03-24-2018, 10:48 PM
Assassins are crazy with their dodges. Especially PK and Shinobi. A good shinobi/PK can't be touched. It's crazy. But it's their thing, it's inherent to their class type, so... it's just fundamentally screwed. You just deal with it, i.e. gank them when in coop modes. In duel you either play assassin or simply turtle the like hell.

lMoosel
03-25-2018, 10:51 PM
Lol how can you people say you donít see assassins in duels?! At high MMR thatís literally all it is because thatís all thatís viable. And as far as GB tracking goes, people who have good footsies wonít be tracked by gb. Iím honestly surprised by how many of you are commenting saying they arenít a problem lol. Light spam isnít the problem, itís recoveries that are. You can Play an assassin and literally negate the entire OOS portion of the game by having good footsies.

Knight_Raime
03-25-2018, 11:39 PM
You do realize that with the exception of a few heros that assassins were the best turtles?
If you're referring to assassins due to "fast attack spam" then it would be better to say you prefer the defensive meta to the new aggression based meta.

Knight_Raime
03-25-2018, 11:42 PM
Lol how can you people say you don’t see assassins in duels?! At high MMR that’s literally all it is because that’s all that’s viable. And as far as GB tracking goes, people who have good footsies won’t be tracked by gb. I’m honestly surprised by how many of you are commenting saying they aren’t a problem lol. Light spam isn’t the problem, it’s recoveries that are. You can Play an assassin and literally negate the entire OOS portion of the game by having good footsies.

I doubt you play high MMR. But even if that was the case conq isn't an assassin and he's played rather often in high tier play. Warlord still is as well.
And bushi to some extent. With good footsies you can negate OOS on all but like 3 heros in the game. So that point isn't entirely relevant. Assassins can do it more easily. but really the only heros that can't are heros with 700+ back dodge recovery.

lMoosel
03-26-2018, 01:09 AM
Iím curious why you say you donít think I play at a high MMR? Iím also curious why we have these discussions over on the comp Reddit and people have drastically different opinions than what Iím always met with on these forums.

Knight_Raime
03-26-2018, 02:30 AM
I’m curious why you say you don’t think I play at a high MMR? I’m also curious why we have these discussions over on the comp Reddit and people have drastically different opinions than what I’m always met with on these forums.

Because in general most people who claim so don't actually.
and because the people here are mostly casual players. As is normal on most forum sites.

I frequent the competitive reddit. I have yet to see anyone there say they want the defensive meta back.
The competitive reddit also acknowledges conq's strength among some other non assassin classes.
The only thing the competitive reddit agrees upon assassin wise is that they're back dashes are too good.

Assassins are the best turtles due to their back dashes and decently high punishes. They're a lot safer to play reflex guard aside.
pk is actually considered the best due to how safe she is with her back dash distance, recovery, and her option selects. Along with having some other minor strengths.

But assassins have always been this good. So to say they're meta now doesn't make sense.

mrmistark
03-26-2018, 03:34 AM
Yeah....I got to say I agree with Raime on this one.

It doesnít make sense to say assassin meta. Iíd have to second ďaggressive metaĒ. The fact is that other than rework zerk nothing has changed assassin wise. Itís simply put, attacks are safer to throw now than ever, so characters that can put out a lot of pressure and have safe CC moves are stronger in general because theyíre harder to stop, but unlike previously the damage output compared to what they are taking from punish is in their favor for how many attacks they are able to land in general. It doesnít just apply to assassins though, itís every character.

Definitely an aggressive meta, and if not that than certainly a HA meta before ďassassin metaĒ for sure. Itís my opinion that other than shaman and glad, assassins arenít in a super great spot, at least no where near as effective as they used to be, and even these two characters for me personally are super easy to counter or at very best beat me by the skin of their teeth if theyíre good. Assassins vs HA donít stand much of a chance.

As far as back dodge, yes it is good, but honestly everyoneís is relatively even. Yes certain assassins like shaman and PK have a better back dodge, but other than the big boys, most characters arenít much worse. You can be GB during this back dodge no matter who you are, but itís all about timing and other than like I stated previously, the big boys, once you get the space of one dodge then you can keep dodging and get that safe range. Itís not only assassins, itís a problem across the board. The only reason itís highlighted more for assasisns in because a couple have slightly better dodges, but same general rule applies, if you get the timing to dodge once you can keep doing so and be in the clear, if you get caught in back dodge you got caught.

Tirik22x
03-26-2018, 03:47 AM
Itís getting old fighting nothing but assains, back dodge is still one of the best moves in the game. It just gets old queing up for duels and brawls and fighting nothing but assains with the occasional kensei or conq in there. I miss the days when youíd actually see some hero variety, hell I ran into a rep 48 valk the other day and we must of played a good 8+ matches it was refreshing.

Yea... I canít wait til back-dodge gets nerfed

Knight_Raime
03-26-2018, 07:35 AM
Yeah....I got to say I agree with Raime on this one.

It doesn’t make sense to say assassin meta. I’d have to second “aggressive meta”. The fact is that other than rework zerk nothing has changed assassin wise. It’s simply put, attacks are safer to throw now than ever, so characters that can put out a lot of pressure and have safe CC moves are stronger in general because they’re harder to stop, but unlike previously the damage output compared to what they are taking from punish is in their favor for how many attacks they are able to land in general. It doesn’t just apply to assassins though, it’s every character.

Definitely an aggressive meta, and if not that than certainly a HA meta before “assassin meta” for sure. It’s my opinion that other than shaman and glad, assassins aren’t in a super great spot, at least no where near as effective as they used to be, and even these two characters for me personally are super easy to counter or at very best beat me by the skin of their teeth if they’re good. Assassins vs HA don’t stand much of a chance.

As far as back dodge, yes it is good, but honestly everyone’s is relatively even. Yes certain assassins like shaman and PK have a better back dodge, but other than the big boys, most characters aren’t much worse. You can be GB during this back dodge no matter who you are, but it’s all about timing and other than like I stated previously, the big boys, once you get the space of one dodge then you can keep dodging and get that safe range. It’s not only assassins, it’s a problem across the board. The only reason it’s highlighted more for assasisns in because a couple have slightly better dodges, but same general rule applies, if you get the timing to dodge once you can keep doing so and be in the clear, if you get caught in back dodge you got caught.


Shaman is pretty garbo imo. just speaking frankly.
the best assassins imo are zerk, glad, and shino. Not like tier speaking specifically. Just overall feeling.
I've never fought a good pk so while I know how strong she is I can't speak too much about a good one.
orochi is neither good nor bad to me. he just exists.

SaschoS
03-26-2018, 07:40 AM
Lol this is what happens when the game is released with minor to non testing. And they put new champs on top of it which were even less tested GG Ubi you really know how stuff works

Howard_T_J
03-26-2018, 09:08 PM
orochi is neither good nor bad to me. he just exists.

Lol this is how I feel