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panther3485
04-23-2006, 12:05 AM
Hi guys,

We all love IL-2/FB/AEP/PF and some might like a few other flight sim-games, but I'm sure there are those like myself who also, for a 'change of pace', enjoy other types of games, such as historically based tactical/strategy.
I would therefore be interested in your thoughts on the new 'Blitzkrieg 2', if you've tried it.

The 'Blitzkrieg' series has been, IMHO, among the best of the genre and I greatly enjoy the originals ('Blitzkrieg', 'Burning Horizon', 'Rolling Thunder' + 'Iron Division' add-on).

I was pleased to hear when a successor was in the pipeline - 'Blitzkrieg 2'. After playing the demo, however, I had mixed feelings about it. Sure, the graphics have been beefed up to take advantage of newer hadware and rendering capabilities but the game interface/controls have been substantially changed and the 'feel' is very different too. I wasn't sure if I really liked it or not.

When the new game was released, I decided that if I was going to buy it, I would wait until the price came down. A lot.

A few days ago, I strolled into a branch of EB games and there was Blitzkrieg 2 in the 'Two games for A$50.00' bargain bin! And - guess what else was in there; BoBII WoV! So I grabbed both - effectively they were A$25.00 each - quite a bargain, I thought. I'll post my impressions of BoBII on another thread later but as for Blitzkrieg 2:

First, my impressions from the demo were reinforced. Blitzkrieg 2 is indeed an enjoyable game but, IMO, has lost the 'feel' of the originals. To me, the feel is much more like 'Codename Panzers' and while that is far from being bad ('Panzers' being a popular series in its own right), it's not what I would have preferred. I also better liked the interface and controls of the original Blitzkrieg.

Other changes did not impress me either. Reinforcements, for example, were very limited in the original Blitzkrieg and came at times set in the game. They are 'on tap' in the new game and repeat reinforcements are also available! Yes, I know I don't have to use them but all the same, not impressed. I also compared gameplay difficulty. 'Normal' level in Blitzkrieg 2 seems noticeably easier to me, than 'normal' in the original. The whole thing just conveys to me a feeling of having been sort of 'dumbed down'.

Anyone else found this?

Not related to the above but in another vein, I also couldn't help noticing the following on the back of the box:
"The real enemy is out there! Fight evil Nazi troops in Europe and Africa and bomb the Japanese out of the Pacific in BLITZKRIEG 2...."
I have to say, I am particularly unimpressed with that!
If I'd had anything to do with managing that part of it, I would have had a very good 'talk' with whoever penned that 'gem'.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif


The above criticisms notwithstanding, however, I feel that Blitzkrieg 2 is still quite a 'good' game as games go, and should be enjoyed my many.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Best regards,
panther3485

panther3485
04-23-2006, 12:05 AM
Hi guys,

We all love IL-2/FB/AEP/PF and some might like a few other flight sim-games, but I'm sure there are those like myself who also, for a 'change of pace', enjoy other types of games, such as historically based tactical/strategy.
I would therefore be interested in your thoughts on the new 'Blitzkrieg 2', if you've tried it.

The 'Blitzkrieg' series has been, IMHO, among the best of the genre and I greatly enjoy the originals ('Blitzkrieg', 'Burning Horizon', 'Rolling Thunder' + 'Iron Division' add-on).

I was pleased to hear when a successor was in the pipeline - 'Blitzkrieg 2'. After playing the demo, however, I had mixed feelings about it. Sure, the graphics have been beefed up to take advantage of newer hadware and rendering capabilities but the game interface/controls have been substantially changed and the 'feel' is very different too. I wasn't sure if I really liked it or not.

When the new game was released, I decided that if I was going to buy it, I would wait until the price came down. A lot.

A few days ago, I strolled into a branch of EB games and there was Blitzkrieg 2 in the 'Two games for A$50.00' bargain bin! And - guess what else was in there; BoBII WoV! So I grabbed both - effectively they were A$25.00 each - quite a bargain, I thought. I'll post my impressions of BoBII on another thread later but as for Blitzkrieg 2:

First, my impressions from the demo were reinforced. Blitzkrieg 2 is indeed an enjoyable game but, IMO, has lost the 'feel' of the originals. To me, the feel is much more like 'Codename Panzers' and while that is far from being bad ('Panzers' being a popular series in its own right), it's not what I would have preferred. I also better liked the interface and controls of the original Blitzkrieg.

Other changes did not impress me either. Reinforcements, for example, were very limited in the original Blitzkrieg and came at times set in the game. They are 'on tap' in the new game and repeat reinforcements are also available! Yes, I know I don't have to use them but all the same, not impressed. I also compared gameplay difficulty. 'Normal' level in Blitzkrieg 2 seems noticeably easier to me, than 'normal' in the original. The whole thing just conveys to me a feeling of having been sort of 'dumbed down'.

Anyone else found this?

Not related to the above but in another vein, I also couldn't help noticing the following on the back of the box:
"The real enemy is out there! Fight evil Nazi troops in Europe and Africa and bomb the Japanese out of the Pacific in BLITZKRIEG 2...."
I have to say, I am particularly unimpressed with that!
If I'd had anything to do with managing that part of it, I would have had a very good 'talk' with whoever penned that 'gem'.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif


The above criticisms notwithstanding, however, I feel that Blitzkrieg 2 is still quite a 'good' game as games go, and should be enjoyed my many.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Best regards,
panther3485

Ken_Det
04-23-2006, 12:27 AM
I got the 1st verstion of that game but have not played it yet.
If you like those kind of games you should try Sudden Srike 1, and 2.
You dont allways get back up troop's, but it is real fun to play.
German, Rus., USA, Brittish, Japan forces.
Some great battles to deal with.

panther3485
04-23-2006, 07:22 AM
Hi there, Ken_Det

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Thanks for the tip. I might have to give Sudden Strike a try, then! Is it real time or turn-based?


Best regards,
panther3485

leitmotiv
04-23-2006, 08:19 AM
I much prefer Battlefront's COMBAT MISSION series. To me BLITZKRIEG was to the CM series as arcade flight games are to the Maddox series---all boom, smash, blam, and no realistic tactics.

panther3485
04-23-2006, 08:55 AM
Hi there, leitmotiv

I haven't tried Combat Mission either. I guess much of it is just a matter of taste and personal preference. For me, Blitzkrieg is one of the best Real-time Strategy titles I've tried.

But if CM is as good as you say, perhaps I should give it a go! [I assume it's RT also.]

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Thanks for the tip and best regards,
panther3485

leitmotiv
04-23-2006, 09:03 AM
Therein is the problem, panther3485, the CM series isn't real-time except in the execution phase when your forces go rumbling off to meet the enemy and all hell breaks loose! I'll hand it to you that BLITZKRIEG gives you a real good real-time brawl and there is nothing wrong with that. CM is rigorously accurate and amazingly detailed. It is the most incredible tactical simulator around but you do have too much to do for it to be remotely considered real-time. I think IC has a RTS game in the works and, from what I've seen, it looks like a combination of BLITZKRIEG and CM---roll on!

panther3485
04-23-2006, 10:01 AM
Hi again, leitmotiv

I've tried one or two Turn-based strategy games and didn't really like them, so I guess that's what swung me over to being a dedicated RTS player. Perhaps if my early experience had been with CM, the outcome would have been different and I'd have another perspective today!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif


That new 1C game you're talking about sounds good and if it betters the original Blitzkrieg series, then IMHO it promises to be some game!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

[I'm also starting to play 'Stalingrad', which is sold as a 1C game but appears to be heavily derived from the Blitzkrieg series. Indeed, it also bears the name 'Nival Interactive' (as well as 'dtf.games'.) This one also looks pretty good to me and I'm enjoying it a lot!]

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Thanks again for the info,
best regards,
panther3485

ploughman
04-23-2006, 10:57 AM
Panther, the Combat Mission turn based games are really very good although the graphics are a little primitive. They are turn based in that you give orders to your units for the next minute (1 minute) and then you press go and watch a little movie of the next minute's action. Each individual squad or vehicle has its own AI as it rolls into action so it doesn't just blindly stroll into enemy fire. CM2, which deals with the Eastern Front, has a more sophisticated armour/vehicle command menu that you'd probably find more rewarding. It really is very good and as it's a little long in the tooth now, would be cheap to pick up.

RED_BEAR8
04-23-2006, 10:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Therein is the problem, panther3485, the CM series isn't real-time except in the execution phase when your forces go rumbling off to meet the enemy and all hell breaks loose! I'll hand it to you that BLITZKRIEG gives you a real good real-time brawl and there is nothing wrong with that. CM is rigorously accurate and amazingly detailed. It is the most incredible tactical simulator around but you do have too much to do for it to be remotely considered real-time. I think IC has a RTS game in the works and, from what I've seen, it looks like a combination of BLITZKRIEG and CM---roll on! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agreed with you it is a very nice pice of game it is a mix between Real time startegy and turn base and it is pretty accurated

panther3485
04-23-2006, 11:30 AM
Hi Ploughman,

Thanks for that. From what you've said, sounds like CM2 would be the go for a man of my tastes.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

With strategy games, graphics for me are not the highest priority but if possible I still like them to be 'reasonable', if you know what I mean - say, around the standard of 'Age of Kings' or the original 'Cossacks', for example. Much worse than that and I'd start to object a little, even if the gamplay is good!

Once graphics achieve the standard seen in the original 'Blitzkrieg', that's plenty good enough for me. In the last couple of years, game developers seem to have gone for the 'you beaut 3D' stuff; IMHO sometimes unfortunately it seems to come at the expense of more important gameplay aspects, which is not an acceptable trade-off for me. I don't see why this has to happen, but it just does.

Anyway, thanks for the pointer and I'll scan the bargain bins at my local games stores to see if I can find CM2.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Best regards,
panther3485

leitmotiv
04-23-2006, 12:48 PM
The CM series are the maximum solution for WWII tactical. If you really like infantry, guns, and tanks, it will make you happy. If you ever did boardgaming, it is like ADVANCED SQUAD LEADER computerized and even more detailed. You will be concerning yourself with whether to button up your tanks or not, laying smoke, etc. Here is the BARBAROSSA TO BERLIN site with a demo so you can get a taste (by the way, do not get the tank simulator, T-72 BALKANS ON FIRE, it is a dud):

http://www.battlefront.com/index.htm

ploughman
04-23-2006, 12:58 PM
Panther, there's an Africa Corps Combat Mission game that I never did get that also extends into Italy and so on that has the more advanced CM2 command menu too and, as such, invovles UK, Oz, US and other western Allies. If you see it, it's bound to be worth getting too.

RedBurn29
04-23-2006, 01:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
The CM series are the maximum solution for WWII tactical. If you really like infantry, guns, and tanks, it will make you happy. If you ever did boardgaming, it is like ADVANCED SQUAD LEADER computerized and even more detailed. You will be concerning yourself with whether to button up your tanks or not, laying smoke, etc. Here is the BARBAROSSA TO BERLIN site with a demo so you can get a taste (by the way, do not get the tank simulator, T-72 BALKANS ON FIRE, it is a dud):

http://www.battlefront.com/index.htm </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

CM is a good series for certain. I do play it but I also play ASL. Though I do not feel they are comperable. ASL offers far more depth than CM could ever imagine. There are time where military boardgames still are superior than the computer RTS games. Its amazing to take a shot and know WHY things happen and plan for them rather than just allowing the computer to make all the computations in a split second. It just seems as though with teh board game the whole plan is laid out in front of you. I just find it better for that sort of game. The ASL series is in a scale beyond belief.

http://www.multimanpublishing.com/index1.php

ploughman
04-23-2006, 01:17 PM
I just had a look on the CM site and they're working up a divisional sized command facility that'll allow macro management of campaigns. If you've played Combat Mission you'll know that effective management of large formations is very difficult as you have to give orders to every unit and this can be very labourious. This is good news.

Shultze_87
04-23-2006, 02:07 PM
Hi all,

CM series is a great one,no doubt,but the only drawback for me is that a squad is represented by just 3 soldiers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif ..apart from that it is simply awesome http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

panther3485
04-23-2006, 08:50 PM
Thanks, guys, for all the help and suggestions.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I am going to try some of these games, if I can find them!

BTW, I do have one game that's part RTS and part 'TB' (sort of) and that's 'Rome - Total War'. Actually, not at all bad - once I got into it. I tend to favour WW2 but I like other periods also and Ancient History does have a particular appeal, I think. I could really go for something that concentrates on the Greek-Persian wars, for example.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


But thanks again, guys
Best regards,
panther3485

Lucius_Esox
04-23-2006, 11:53 PM
Have you ever tried any of the HPS Panzer campaign games Panther?

Just finished playing the Normandy campaign. The turns are two hours long, it might as well be real time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

You get to play the whole Normandy campaign at company/battalion level http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Do you know how many units that is http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif?

To do the game justice it takes two hours per turn in real time, =real time.

For in depth gameplay I cant think of anything better than this series, although it is seriously h/core. I won't be having a crack at another one for quite a while I know http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.hpssims.com/

leitmotiv
04-23-2006, 11:59 PM
ADVANCED SQUAD LEADER had some gamey compromises such as not completely realistic mortar rules, and, of course, the lack of tactical secrecy due to your being able to see the opposition's layout. CM spares your dozens of dice rolls and lets you concentrate on tactics, not game mechanics---why I love computers. Lucius_Esox is right, the HPS series is incredible. You can fight the Kursk battle, for pete's sake.

ploughman
04-24-2006, 06:32 AM
Panther, if you like Rome Total War try downloading the Rome Total Realism add-on (if you haven't already).

http://www.rometotalrealism.com/

It makes a big difference.

Low_Flyer_MkVb
04-24-2006, 06:38 AM
Bump for Rome Total Realism http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

The SPQR mod is good for huge battles if your rig can handle it - lovely skins.

(Screenies available on request)

panther3485
04-24-2006, 10:23 AM
Hi there, Lucius_Esox

Quote:
"Have you ever tried any of the HPS Panzer campaign games Panther?"

No, 'cos in my early gaming days (about 6 years ago - I'm new to computers), my experiences with a friend's Turn-Based Strategy games didn't do a lot for me (boring - no adrenalin - yawn - sleeping!), so after that I kinda decided that TB Strategy wasn't gonna be my thing. Perhaps I judged in haste and didn't try enough of them.

I pretty much stuck to pure RT only from then on (with the partial exception of Rome Total War, but that's still RT for the battles themselves).

However, as you say, two hour turns would certainly feel a lot like RT! It's beginning to look as if maybe I should give the whole idea a second chance.

One thing I don't like the idea of, however, is unit 'representation' on the field; say for example a whole platoon of men being represented by 3 or 4 figures or a platoon of tanks by one tank. I like 48 men to be 48 on the screen! Otherwise, I lose interest rapidly. [I'm yawning and almost nodding off just thinking about it!]

But it sounds as if the HPS Panzer campaigns (whatever HPS stands for) are not like my pre-conceived ideas at all, so I might enjoy them! Thanks for the suggestion and if I see any around, I may well give them a go. ($hit! At this rate, I'm gonna need 36-hour days!)

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif


Best regards,
panther3485

panther3485
04-24-2006, 10:31 AM
Hi again, leitmotiv

Quote:
"You can fight the Kursk battle, for pete's sake."

OK, now you've really piqued my interest! [Anything relating to Eastern Front generally and armoured warfare in particular is top $hit to me!]

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

So, are these 'HPS' games still available?


Best regards,
panther3485

woofiedog
04-24-2006, 10:33 AM
Just picked up Red Orchestra Ostfront 41-45... I was needing a Armor fix. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

panther3485
04-24-2006, 10:38 AM
Hi Ploughman,

Yeah, I already downloaded 'Total Realism' but then I didn't install it because I intended to buy the 'Barbarian Invasion' expansion. I wasn't sure if I should do that first or whatever and since then it's fallen by the wayside (so many other things to do and other games getting played - I always take on too much!)

I'll get back into it someday and pick up where I left off.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


Thanks and best regards,
panther3485

panther3485
04-24-2006, 10:41 AM
Hi, Low_Flyer

Guess I'm gonna be checking out the SPQR mod, then! Thanks for that.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


Best regards,
Panther3485

Lucius_Esox
04-24-2006, 11:03 AM
Hi there Panther http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I see your point about unit representation, it's one of the few things I don't like about the CM series. In Panzer campaigns they use the proper military unit symbology.

Not just Kursk and Normandy btw, there are loads. I've played Normandy and Market Garden.

The attention to detail of this series is outstanding.

ploughman
04-24-2006, 11:05 AM
The unit representation thingy only applies to infantry though. A tank is tank in CM.

squadldr76
04-24-2006, 11:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RedBurn29:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by leitmotiv:
The CM series are the maximum solution for WWII tactical. If you really like infantry, guns, and tanks, it will make you happy. If you ever did boardgaming, it is like ADVANCED SQUAD LEADER computerized and even more detailed. [/URL] </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey RedBurn, have you ever ventured into using VASL? I've wanted to, but haven't found the motivation yet. Playing it via email would be the greatest thing for me though. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif