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x_Senduko_x
03-12-2018, 10:47 AM
Asassins have too much live. Why (in special this paralympics friendly viking asassins) has this class so much live and can trade hits like an vanguard ? why ?

Charmzzz
03-12-2018, 12:44 PM
Berserker is build around trading due to his Hyperarmor. And why should Assassins have even less life? They already have (mostly) the lowest HP values in the game: 110-120 compared to a 150 Lawbringer or 140 Raider.

kanuzira
03-12-2018, 01:18 PM
Berserker is build around trading due to his Hyperarmor. And why should Assassins have even less life? They already have (mostly) the lowest HP values in the game: 110-120 compared to a 150 Lawbringer or 140 Raider.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wwr17AtTDFU3BZY_81axLVMKdHdNZuV0wGOb589VKgc/edit#gid=0

Here is the list, as you can see the assassins have 120 health and the shinobi 110. most heroes dont have much more health than the assassins.

Thorstein31
03-12-2018, 01:27 PM
Op got the point. Assassins got to much health. They should lower it a bit, like 100/110 tops and 95 for shinobi. A good example is shaman and gladiator with 120 hp, while warden, a full armored knight, gets 130.

Charmzzz
03-12-2018, 01:39 PM
So 2 heavy attacks should kill an Assassin? Yeah, sure... Assassins already have the disadvantage of reflex guard and being unable to dodge after switching their guard direction. Plus they have 1-3 light attacks less life than the other Characters with static guard. And then the "other" Characters have fast attacks too, 500ms lights or melee moves are very common on all Characters across the board.

Imo this is a "I got my a** handed on a plate from an Assassin, NERF ALL ASSASSINS" Thread.

If you want Assassins to have less life, I want 500ms attacks exclusive on Assassins. Because they are fast and nimble, have less life and rely on being faster. Problem solved for me, you okay with it? :p

SpaceJim12
03-12-2018, 02:41 PM
Yeah, sure... Assassins already have the disadvantage

Are you serious? Like Warden main I can say, that assassins in this game have way more bigger advantage, especialy after Shaman, that ridiculous rework of Zerc etc.
When I change my Warden to Glad or Orochi I feel like change difficulty mode to easy as ever. On Glad you feel comfort and free in attack and dodging like no any Warden ever could.
So, I repeat myself are you serious?

Charmzzz
03-12-2018, 03:52 PM
Are you serious? Like Warden main I can say, that assassins in this game have way more bigger advantage, especialy after Shaman, that ridiculous rework of Zerc etc.
When I change my Warden to Glad or Orochi I feel like change difficulty mode to easy as ever. On Glad you feel comfort and free in attack and dodging like no any Warden ever could.
So, I repeat myself are you serious?

Yes, I am serious. Warden as an example in comparison is extremely lackluster as he has a very limited moveset, got nerfed hard on his Shoulderbash and will get reworked. You are comparing reworked or higher tier Characters to one specific, superhard nerfed OG Character.

Tell me what is the advantage of an Assassin. Ok, the dodge distance is bigger, but dodge timing is STILL important. I can dodge the same enemy attacks on PK and Warden, only spacing (when OOS or being ganked) is easier for Assassins.

Anyway, I gave examples why Assassins have disadvantages (reflex guard, unable to dodge after guard switch) compared to static guard Characters. Your turn now. What is their advantage? Speed? Nah, I can list alot of 500ms Attacks on non-Assassins.

PDXGorechild
03-12-2018, 04:34 PM
that ridiculous rework of Zerc

Hahaha!

Sped up his light from feint by 100ms and added hyper armour to it, upped the damage of some moves slightly and nerfed his main damage attack massively. Made two finishers unblockable but they're still slow enough for you to make a cup of tea before they land.

Ridiculous.

SpaceJim12
03-12-2018, 04:35 PM
Anyway, I gave examples why Assassins have disadvantages (reflex guard, unable to dodge after guard switch) compared to static guard Characters. Your turn now.

First of all, assassins have a lot of things they can spam without any real danger. I saw Berses, who feint like thousands attacks per sec and on HL, Warden and Nobushi I just can't do anything. If I react any way they land attack or parry.
Than I saw PK, who overtop the turtle meta. She just wait you attack, then dodge, then light spam.
You said you could dodge the same attack on Warden and PK, but like Warden what do you do next? Shoulderbash? 90% of assassins dodged it and than free GB, good luck next time. Do light? It's extremly slow and can't be a chain with dodge (like PK two spikes, when second bleed).
On assassins you have no troubles with feint spamers, cause you can dodge, deflect, intrupt with the light and so. Assassins have a lot of versatile of dodge. You can do shield dush on Glad, and it's more way fuster, than Conq.
For now assassins have a lot of tools to deal with every game situation and tones of damage. Reworked Bers, Shaman and Glad just simply stupid OP in 4v4 mode. When I met turtle who parry any attack, I just spam foot attack on Glad. Only assassins can dodge it. LB, Warden and others just useless in this moment.
I'm not saying that Ubi should lower assassins health, but statment, that assassins have any disadvantage are ridiculous.

And I use Warden example, cause I love this guy, like to play on him. And I have a lot of time to compare him with assassins.

Devils-_-legacy
03-12-2018, 05:38 PM
The fact you think assassins are the only class that can spam lights its funny as a warden dont you have to rely on lights?.
(I met turtle who parry any attack, I just spam foot attack on Glad. )Spamming that attack fails more time succeeds in my experience . your using the reworks /dlc to say there not at a disadvantage weres your examples are considered top tiers compared to the non reworked/dlc heros I could do the same thing by using orochi vs kensie or conq but there's no point in comparing the two as orochis kit is falling behind massively same as warden

Charmzzz
03-13-2018, 10:20 AM
First of all, assassins have a lot of things they can spam without any real danger. I saw Berses, who feint like thousands attacks per sec and on HL, Warden and Nobushi I just can't do anything. If I react any way they land attack or parry.
Than I saw PK, who overtop the turtle meta. She just wait you attack, then dodge, then light spam.
You said you could dodge the same attack on Warden and PK, but like Warden what do you do next? Shoulderbash? 90% of assassins dodged it and than free GB, good luck next time. Do light? It's extremly slow and can't be a chain with dodge (like PK two spikes, when second bleed).
On assassins you have no troubles with feint spamers, cause you can dodge, deflect, intrupt with the light and so. Assassins have a lot of versatile of dodge. You can do shield dush on Glad, and it's more way fuster, than Conq.
For now assassins have a lot of tools to deal with every game situation and tones of damage. Reworked Bers, Shaman and Glad just simply stupid OP in 4v4 mode. When I met turtle who parry any attack, I just spam foot attack on Glad. Only assassins can dodge it. LB, Warden and others just useless in this moment.
I'm not saying that Ubi should lower assassins health, but statment, that assassins have any disadvantage are ridiculous.

And I use Warden example, cause I love this guy, like to play on him. And I have a lot of time to compare him with assassins.

Gosh there is so much wrong in your post, I even don't know where to start. But I will try:

- "Spam without danger": what do you mean? 500ms Attacks? Warden Top Light and Zone are 500ms. Spam them, too? "Spamming" attacks only catches noobs that are unable to guard switch or parry.
- HL has Countercrush on all directions. Warden has it on Top. Warden can Dodge into SB mixup. Nobushi can Hidden Stance or that backstep attack move. If someone spams feints, just switch your guard and WAIT maybe!? He will be near OOS pretty fast, then it is your turn to attack.
- Yes, when I dodge an Attack with Warden I will go into SB mixup 90% of the time. But I will use the MIXUP, cancel into GB or feint it into Top Light or GB are the way to go. After you conditioned your enemy that you won't release the normal SB - you can do it occasionally and you will catch him.
- Feint spammers are even a bigger problem on Assassins as your guard decays and you have to refresh it. Interrupt with Light? You can do that on every Character.
- Tons of damage? You should have a look here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wwr17AtTDFU3BZY_81axLVMKdHdNZuV0wGOb589VKgc/edit#gid=0
- Everybody can Dodge the Toe Stab of Glad from neutral. Assassins DO NOT DODGE FASTER. They only have a slightly better recovery from dodging than other Characters.
- I am doing fine on Warden. L2P issue, sorry.

SpaceJim12
03-13-2018, 11:59 AM
"Spam without danger": what do you mean? 500ms Attacks? Warden Top Light and Zone are 500ms. Spam them, too? "Spamming" attacks only catches noobs that are unable to guard switch or parry.

Well, I really wanna see you pro gameplay against PK spaming her light mixed with dodge and zone-cancel-zone.


If someone spams feints, just switch your guard and WAIT maybe!? He will be near OOS pretty fast, then it is your turn to attack.

Well, can't see any Zercs that have trouble with stamina on high gear stats. For clear understanding, I play 4v4 mode and prefer it. Don't like duels. And in dominion, you could try to wait someone with 180 gear OOS, but someone kill you in the back earlier. Stamina useless with that much gear stats for it.


Yes, when I dodge an Attack with Warden I will go into SB mixup 90% of the time. But I will use the MIXUP, cancel into GB or feint it into Top Light or GB are the way to go.

Let me using here your own words "only catches noobs". And if you play with assassins who have skill, he will dodge your BS from dodge faster than you'll say "assassin"


Feint spammers are even a bigger problem on Assassins as your guard decays and you have to refresh it.

Dodge light solve all problems here


You should have a look here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Kgc/edit#gid=0

I don't say about real damage from direct attack, but % of landed attack will be higher. At least for me, if compare Warden and Glad.And, for example, if one firs hit will reach target on Zerc, you will land whole zone hits without any trouble.


Everybody can Dodge the Toe Stab of Glad from neutral

Again, maybe in Duel, where you stay in front of your opponent, wait that move and ready. In dominion, where you always can be target of gunk, and Glad came to your point it's different situation. Can't see a lot of people on heavy classes who easily dodge from it.


I am doing fine on Warden. L2P issue, sorry.

Maybe cause you play only duels or play with noobs. I can't say I useless with Warden, but "doing fine" not what you can say now about this char.

BarbeQMichael
03-13-2018, 01:42 PM
Yeah, currently there is no actual HP difference between assassins and normal heroes; on average the health pool difference is less than a one light attack, so health doesn't matter. While assassins should certainly have less health than they do now (simply as a trade off, they currently have none to balance their advantages over normal heroes), I'm not sure if it would be good if they were one-hit-kills from raider's axe either.

Maybe if their block wasn't as effective? You would imagine that dual sickles or dagger won't block as much damage or at least would take much more stamina to block hits than a shield or large weapon.

Charmzzz
03-13-2018, 01:54 PM
Well, I really wanna see you pro gameplay against PK spaming her light mixed with dodge and zone-cancel-zone.

Well, can't see any Zercs that have trouble with stamina on high gear stats. For clear understanding, I play 4v4 mode and prefer it. Don't like duels. And in dominion, you could try to wait someone with 180 gear OOS, but someone kill you in the back earlier. Stamina useless with that much gear stats for it.

Let me using here your own words "only catches noobs". And if you play with assassins who have skill, he will dodge your BS from dodge faster than you'll say "assassin"

Dodge light solve all problems here

I don't say about real damage from direct attack, but % of landed attack will be higher. At least for me, if compare Warden and Glad.And, for example, if one firs hit will reach target on Zerc, you will land whole zone hits without any trouble.

Again, maybe in Duel, where you stay in front of your opponent, wait that move and ready. In dominion, where you always can be target of gunk, and Glad came to your point it's different situation. Can't see a lot of people on heavy classes who easily dodge from it.

Maybe cause you play only duels or play with noobs. I can't say I useless with Warden, but "doing fine" not what you can say now about this char.

Add me ingame (Charmzzz), we are both playing on PC. We can do a Custom Game, you vs me - Duel or Dom with Bots. I don't care. You can also choose which Character I play, PK - Glad - Warden. I don't care either.

The only problem I have with PK's is when they dodge back all the time and wait for me to dodge forward so they can free hit with their Zone. But that is my fault tbh, because I am an "in your face PK".

Redkey.
03-13-2018, 02:01 PM
Not so long ago I started to play Shinobi. Oh yes, how many hitpoints he has) Better ask devs hoe Cent have 110 Hp. Probably, they should scale down the character at least twice.

Xil_h
03-13-2018, 02:12 PM
Don't forget the defense stat, which reduces damage. Something assassins do not really have

Charmzzz
03-13-2018, 02:24 PM
Don't forget the defense stat, which reduces damage. Something assassins do not really have

You could equip Defense gear if you want to. And PK has the "Thick Skin" lvl 2 feat which reduces incoming damage very 10 seconds or something.

SpaceJim12
03-13-2018, 02:38 PM
Add me ingame (Charmzzz), we are both playing on PC. We can do a Custom Game, you vs me - Duel or Dom with Bots. I don't care. You can also choose which Character I play, PK - Glad - Warden. I don't care either.

When I return to game, I'll probably do that.
Strange I never saw you in games before, community not so big.

Charmzzz
03-13-2018, 02:42 PM
When I return to game, I'll probably do that.
Strange I never saw you in games before, community not so big.

Played only Dominion in the last months. Duel was too much of a staring contest for me before Season 5. Profile: https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/Charmzzz

SpaceJim12
03-13-2018, 03:14 PM
Played only Dominion in the last months.

I played Dominion only all the time. For me medival fight can't be dueling isolated from masses

SpaceJim12
03-13-2018, 03:16 PM
Profile: https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/Charmzzz

Wow, 20k kills for 11k deathes. Can say on statistic you're better than me. I got like...4-5k kills from game realised.=)