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View Full Version : X45 Magic or What?



gothkrieger
07-06-2011, 09:26 PM
So I was wondering if anyone else has had the same experience with the X45 or any other joystick comparison.
Was going to replace my X45 with a Microsoft Sidewinder 2 but the verdict is still out. The Sidwinder is a great stick, with or without the force feedback but its harder to fly with. Ok, what do I mean by that. Simply, with the same joystick settings in the game the Sidewinder bleeds off speed in manoeuvres WAY more and in my 109. I hardly ever stall the 109 with the X45 and with the Sidewinder I can stall easily, flying the same way. Those wingtip vortices appear in banked turns much easier and earlier and speed bleeds off much faster with the Sidwinder. Even doing a loop can get interesting. On the Sidwinder the twist rudder is not in use. In IL2, thatís controlled by another controller. So I should not be bleeding off speed by accidentally twisting the stick during manoeuvres.
I am just wondering if anyone else has experienced this sort of thing when comparing 2 different sticks. To me if the settings in the game are not changed there should be little difference in flight chrematistics of the aircraft. Am I wrong?

gothkrieger
07-06-2011, 09:26 PM
So I was wondering if anyone else has had the same experience with the X45 or any other joystick comparison.
Was going to replace my X45 with a Microsoft Sidewinder 2 but the verdict is still out. The Sidwinder is a great stick, with or without the force feedback but its harder to fly with. Ok, what do I mean by that. Simply, with the same joystick settings in the game the Sidewinder bleeds off speed in manoeuvres WAY more and in my 109. I hardly ever stall the 109 with the X45 and with the Sidewinder I can stall easily, flying the same way. Those wingtip vortices appear in banked turns much easier and earlier and speed bleeds off much faster with the Sidwinder. Even doing a loop can get interesting. On the Sidwinder the twist rudder is not in use. In IL2, thatís controlled by another controller. So I should not be bleeding off speed by accidentally twisting the stick during manoeuvres.
I am just wondering if anyone else has experienced this sort of thing when comparing 2 different sticks. To me if the settings in the game are not changed there should be little difference in flight chrematistics of the aircraft. Am I wrong?

Tully__
07-07-2011, 12:22 AM
It may be that the joystick drivers are applying different profiles before the game gets the data.

It may also be that you are attuned to the centering force on the X45 and the different centering force on the sidewinder is confusing your "feel" of the controls.

I have used several different sticks (Logitech, Thrustmaster, Saitek and Microsoft) and find heavier springs far harder to work with, others report the opposite. If you really like the sidewinder, stick with it for while to see if your muscles can adapt.

My personal preference is for the Saitek stuff, but that is in part because that is what I'm used to.

FoolTrottel
07-07-2011, 02:52 AM
Me thinks you'll have to change the sensitivities for Pitch and Roll.

Probably the X45 outputs in a different way than the Sidewinder.
The Sidewinder may outpur higher values at the same deflection, and that could be why your aircraft shows this behavior.
So try and tune the sensitivities (Via Hardware Setup, Input) and see whether that helps.

jameson2010
07-07-2011, 04:57 AM
Most of us use all 100's for FFB2. You should be able to feel your way right up to the point when the wing drops and the plane stalls. This should make the stick more predictable and therefore easier to fly with.
If you're using XP turn off the return to centre forces option under game controllers, properties, (assuming you've loaded the original drivers for the stick). With that enabled the stick forces are much too strong, off and it's much more realistic.
I do not know about W7 and if this is possible or not with that OS. I have used Vista and didn't enjoy the feel of the stick using Vista's in built drivers. Has anyone managed to install the stick's original drivers under XP compatability mode with Windows 7 or vista?

gothkrieger
07-07-2011, 03:35 PM
I am running it on Windows XP. I don't have the drivers installed, I just did the plug and play thing. With it installed simply like this do I have the "return to center" feature happening or not?

jameson2010
07-07-2011, 04:57 PM
I wouldn't have though so.
FFB2 original installation software here:
http://www.mission4today.com/i...file=details&id=3041 (http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=3041)
You have to register to download but I'm assume you are alreadyhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

gothkrieger
07-07-2011, 10:42 PM
OK, got the software and was going to install it and the installation says it will install DirectX 7.0a as well. Will this actually overwrite my more current version of DirectX? That is something I definitely I do not want to have happen.

Tully__
07-07-2011, 11:46 PM
Early DirectX versions will not overwrite a later version, it's one of the few things I'm aware of that Microsoft have done well for a long time. Later versions are backwards compatible with earlier versions (at least up to DX9), so all should work fine.

gothkrieger
07-08-2011, 02:10 AM
Aaarrrrhhhh. I am beyond hope. Tried pretty much all that has been suggested here, read the how toís and still no joy (pardon the pun)
Case in point, with Sidewinder 2, starting at 400 km/h, in a 109G6, 1000m altitude, I go into a hard banked right hand turn, full throttle, I donít make a complete 360 degree turn, when the speed drops to about 300 km/h it noses down in a roll and I am now trying to recover from the start of a spin. With the X45 and the same speed etc. the manoeuvre goes differently, I cannot only hold it for one 360 degree turn, I can go for another. The speed gets down to 200 km/h, she shudders and complains but she doesnít end up rolling over and spinning. In both cases no flaps at all. I know others fly this stick, I just donít understand unless they just get used to the limitations of the stick and are happy with that. I donít know, if that were the case if they flew with the X45 in comparison they would toss the Sidewinder. Thing is the Sidewinder I am sure is the better stick. Just shoot me!

Col_SandersLite
07-08-2011, 03:22 AM
I may be incorrect, but from memory, I think that the sidewinder has a shorter throw than an x45. That would probably account for the problem you're having.

That's one of the things I love about the ch stick, out of the box, it's got a lot of travel compared to most of the mass market ones out there.

Bearcat99
07-08-2011, 07:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by gothkrieger:
So I was wondering if anyone else has had the same experience with the X45 or any other joystick comparison.
Was going to replace my X45 with a Microsoft Sidewinder 2 but the verdict is still out. The Sidwinder is a great stick, with or without the force feedback but its harder to fly with. Ok, what do I mean by that. Simply, with the same joystick settings in the game the Sidewinder bleeds off speed in manoeuvres WAY more and in my 109. I hardly ever stall the 109 with the X45 and with the Sidewinder I can stall easily, flying the same way. Those wingtip vortices appear in banked turns much easier and earlier and speed bleeds off much faster with the Sidwinder. Even doing a loop can get interesting. On the Sidwinder the twist rudder is not in use. In IL2, thatís controlled by another controller. So I should not be bleeding off speed by accidentally twisting the stick during manoeuvres.
I am just wondering if anyone else has experienced this sort of thing when comparing 2 different sticks. To me if the settings in the game are not changed there should be little difference in flight chrematistics of the aircraft. Am I wrong? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unless the throttle is FUBAR or desk space is limited I'd keep using it and use the stick as a button bay..

http://file.walagata.com/w/bearcat/my_rig_2.jpg
which morphed into
http://file.walagata.com/w/bearcat/100_2686_0.JPG
which morphed into
http://file.walagata.com/w/bearcat/100_0750.JPG

jameson2010
07-08-2011, 07:48 AM
Gothkrieger you'll have to learn how to fly and please don't take that the wrong way. What you have described is pilot induced stall, i.e. yanking the stick back to fast. The idea is to feel what the stick is telling you. Start again, same situation, beginning with a large gentle turn then repeat pulling a bit harder, etc., until you know exactly when it'll stall out. Guide the plane, feed in the pull on the stick.
Set at 100's you have to fly precisely, as real luftwaffe pilots did in the real 109. It was twitchy in RL and demanded concentration at all times. If you persevere you will be able to fly the 109 at a very fast average speed, say 480kph and at 600+ after a dive of 300-400 metres.
If you are pulling or pushing the stick, that force you feel is the plane's energy you're burning, so flyimg with no force at all is the aim, if you see what I mean!
From memory the FFB stick throw matches exactly that of 109 and the FW190's KG12 joystick. Good luck!

Bearcat99
07-08-2011, 07:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FoolTrottel:
Me thinks you'll have to change the sensitivities for Pitch and Roll.

Probably the X45 outputs in a different way than the Sidewinder.
The Sidewinder may outpur higher values at the same deflection, and that could be why your aircraft shows this behavior.
So try and tune the sensitivities (Via Hardware Setup, Input) and see whether that helps. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
+1
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jameson2010:
Most of us use all 100's for FFB2. You should be able to feel your way right up to the point when the wing drops and the plane stalls. This should make the stick more predictable and therefore easier to fly with.
If you're using XP turn off the return to centre forces option under game controllers, properties, (assuming you've loaded the original drivers for the stick). With that enabled the stick forces are much too strong, off and it's much more realistic.
I do not know about W7 and if this is possible or not with that OS. I have used Vista and didn't enjoy the feel of the stick using Vista's in built drivers. Has anyone managed to install the stick's original drivers under XP compatability mode with Windows 7 or vista? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I use 100s across only on ailerons .. everything else is modified..
I believe that drivers for the stick are standardf in Windows.. but there is profiling SW that you can use that will do the trick pretty nicely if you want to make profiles and arent using XP.

gothkrieger
07-08-2011, 09:27 AM
Hi Jameson2010
Yes I know what I am talking about is pilot induced stall. The issue at hand is that both sticks should suffer the pilot induced stall in the same way at the same time. They donít, thatís the issue. Of course I could be more gentile with the Sidewinder and not stall but what would be the point if I could slam back the stick and stuff it into a steep banked turn with the X45 and still stay in control.

gothkrieger
07-08-2011, 09:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by FoolTrottel:
Me thinks you'll have to change the sensitivities for Pitch and Roll.

Probably the X45 outputs in a different way than the Sidewinder.
The Sidewinder may outpur higher values at the same deflection, and that could be why your aircraft shows this behavior.
So try and tune the sensitivities (Via Hardware Setup, Input) and see whether that helps. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
+1

Bearcat99
I will have to try the 100s people have suggested. I am sure it will change the responsiveness on the input now that it would be at 1 to 1. Still I donít see that changing the Sidewinders behaviour in the sim, other than being more responsive.
Would be great if someone who has a Sidewinder tried the exercise I did above and reported their results to see if it was the same. If it was not then it could be the stick itself perhaps and thatís a big perhaps.

gothkrieger
07-08-2011, 11:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Col_SandersLite:
I may be incorrect, but from memory, I think that the sidewinder has a shorter throw than an x45. That would probably account for the problem you're having.

That's one of the things I love about the ch stick, out of the box, it's got a lot of travel compared to most of the mass market ones out there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds good as I have a CH stick on order, I have my fingers crossed it turns out like the X45.