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View Full Version : Unblockable, Hyper Armour and feint galore



Kryltic
03-11-2018, 01:50 AM
Please stop giving everyone these kinds of attacks. None of them should be widely available to any character without some kind of drawback and Hyper Armour should be seriously limited when applied in a chain.

It seems all are been splashed about with new "improvements" etc when what most people want is a slower paced game but one where the defensive side is toned down and not one where the offensive side is massively ramped up to counter it.

We want battles of skill and wit, not mass feints, sheer speed of attacks and easy unblockables. We want the few unblockables we have to be skillful and decisive.

Dasteel1974
03-11-2018, 06:45 AM
Hyper armor is pure sh*t. The idea that somebody can take a sword the face and it not phase them is ridiculous. If you get stabbed, you shouldnít be able to react as if it didnít happen.

As far as unblockables go, donít have a problem with most. But when you have a character like Highlander that has unblockables everywhere and uninterruptibles, it gets stupid. And the idea that he can throw 6-8 unblockables in a row is stupid. His unblockable kick that can be feinted into an unblockable throw is pure garbage. The window you have to get away is microscopic. You dodge, you get thrown to the ground. You donít and you eat the same damage.

Then you have Gladiator and Aramusha that have feints all over the place, only to add their speed compared to other characters. Feints are fine, but there are feint characters whose feint is OP IMHO.

Knight_Raime
03-11-2018, 07:04 AM
It's easy to make your point sound smart when you boil feinting and mix ups down to be mindless spam.

Veerdin-Wraith
03-11-2018, 09:40 AM
It's easy to make your point sound smart when you boil feinting and mix ups down to be mindless spam.

The problem is, that's what they've become. Instead of being strategic moves that get used occasionally based on the situation, feints and mixups are pretty much the standard for most characters. And the inability to properly react to such attack defensively means that you're basically forced to react aggressively, which just encourages other players to spam feints and mixups as well. A vicious cycle, where the only way to win is to get the first couple hits of a chain in or hope like hell you can properly defend against an onslaught.

Feints and mixups should be used similarly to how we use parries: A specific tactic employed every now and then to grant you a brief advantage. Instead, what we see in games now is people just feinting and mixing up attacks like crazy with little no no regard of if it's necessary or not.

BarbeQMichael
03-11-2018, 10:13 AM
Hyper armor is pure sh*t. The idea that somebody can take a sword the face and it not phase them is ridiculous. If you get stabbed, you shouldn’t be able to react as if it didn’t happen.


Get big enough weapon to motion and it's owner could disappear and the weapon would just continue it's movement.

Knight_Raime
03-11-2018, 10:20 AM
The problem is, that's what they've become. Instead of being strategic moves that get used occasionally based on the situation, feints and mixups are pretty much the standard for most characters. And the inability to properly react to such attack defensively means that you're basically forced to react aggressively, which just encourages other players to spam feints and mixups as well. A vicious cycle, where the only way to win is to get the first couple hits of a chain in or hope like hell you can properly defend against an onslaught.

Feints and mixups should be used similarly to how we use parries: A specific tactic employed every now and then to grant you a brief advantage. Instead, what we see in games now is people just feinting and mixing up attacks like crazy with little no no regard of if it's necessary or not.

No it's really not. You can't "mindless spam" any of kensei soft feint mix ups because there are tons of things out there that counter that.
You can't "mindless spam" Highlanders attacks either because they'll be dodged or parried.

The only "mindless spam" that exists is something like conqs shield bash.
If you think mix ups should only be used occasionally then you really don't get fighting games at all.
If you played this game at any semi competitive level against actual decent players you'd understand this.

For honor falls flat because it's too easy to react to most things. It's too basic and too easy. Mix ups and feints are the only things keeping the game from being a turtle snooze fest.

Veerdin-Wraith
03-11-2018, 10:28 AM
Get big enough weapon to motion and it's owner could disappear and the weapon would just continue it's movement.

This is true, but that's not how it works in For Honor. Hyperarmour acts as a black-and-white system right now, where a few specific attacks cannot be interrupted at all, no matter what you throw at them, while most other attacks will stop instantly if you get a hit in faster.

If we were talking about real physics, then hitting somebody while they're attacking you would have one of three different results, instead of two:
1) The counter attack is too weak to do anything to stop the incoming blow.
2) The counter attack is enough to disturb the agressor, reducing the attack's power, but not fully stopping it.
3) The counter attack is strong enough to completey stop the incoming strike.

In For Honor, however, there's no middle-ground. Either an attack has Hyperarmour, or it doesn't.


No it's really not. You can't "mindless spam" any of kensei soft feint mix ups because there are tons of things out there that counter that.
You can't "mindless spam" Highlanders attacks either because they'll be dodged or parried.

The only "mindless spam" that exists is something like conqs shield bash.
If you think mix ups should only be used occasionally then you really don't get fighting games at all.
If you played this game at any semi competitive level against actual decent players you'd understand this.

For honor falls flat because it's too easy to react to most things. It's too basic and too easy. Mix ups and feints are the only things keeping the game from being a turtle snooze fest.

You make a good point, here. I actually think the problem is two-fold... Some classes can be very easy to react to, but others (like the newly reworked ones) are often too difficult to react to.

Also, "spam" probably isn't the the right term. I think the words I'm looking for are "over-reliance". Feints and mixups are currently one of the most powerful tools in a fighters kit, and in some cases are too powerful. It's the same issue we saw pre-Season 5, except instead of people relying on parries and gaurdbreaks, they now rely on feints and mixups.

Jarl.Felix
03-11-2018, 03:08 PM
It actually came to this : in their desperation devs worked "so hard" for 5 seasons to "break the defence meta" and all they could to is to add more spam and button mashing. Zero tactics, zero brains, zero anticipations. Just dodge attacks, feints, light attacks combo with UB and hyper armor finishers. What a huge dissapointment... and you thought Ubisoft actualy has competent developers not amateurs... meh.

EvoX.
03-11-2018, 05:13 PM
The problem is, that's what they've become. Instead of being strategic moves that get used occasionally based on the situation, feints and mixups are pretty much the standard for most characters. And the inability to properly react to such attack defensively means that you're basically forced to react aggressively, which just encourages other players to spam feints and mixups as well. A vicious cycle, where the only way to win is to get the first couple hits of a chain in or hope like hell you can properly defend against an onslaught.

Well said.

Knight_Raime
03-11-2018, 10:35 PM
This is true, but that's not how it works in For Honor. Hyperarmour acts as a black-and-white system right now, where a few specific attacks cannot be interrupted at all, no matter what you throw at them, while most other attacks will stop instantly if you get a hit in faster.

If we were talking about real physics, then hitting somebody while they're attacking you would have one of three different results, instead of two:
1) The counter attack is too weak to do anything to stop the incoming blow.
2) The counter attack is enough to disturb the agressor, reducing the attack's power, but not fully stopping it.
3) The counter attack is strong enough to completey stop the incoming strike.

In For Honor, however, there's no middle-ground. Either an attack has Hyperarmour, or it doesn't.



You make a good point, here. I actually think the problem is two-fold... Some classes can be very easy to react to, but others (like the newly reworked ones) are often too difficult to react to.

Also, "spam" probably isn't the the right term. I think the words I'm looking for are "over-reliance". Feints and mixups are currently one of the most powerful tools in a fighters kit, and in some cases are too powerful. It's the same issue we saw pre-Season 5, except instead of people relying on parries and gaurdbreaks, they now rely on feints and mixups.

As I already pointed out the game needs mix ups and feints because of how low the skill floor is at getting decent with the base mechanics. The games mechanics have little to no depth to them. So that dumps all the work on "interesting gameplay" onto the heros. Hence why we're seeing a lot of mix ups and why feints have been a stample since season 1. I don't think any particular class is stronger than another when it comes to feint games. Some heros do have better mix ups. But the devs are actively reworking/rebalancing the OG cast.

It's really not the same issue though. The over reliance on parries and GB's was an issue because it bolstered the games poor base mechanics. The feint/mix up game meta if it really is an issue is a seperate one.

Thorstein31
03-12-2018, 01:30 AM
What bothers me is the bad use of hyper armor. Back to season 1 it was something available on heavy attacks. Now they gave it to assassins. Now assassins have the tools of heavier classes, but the heavier classes do not have access to assassins tech. What I mean is the hyper armor on beserker lights fells like a shugoki with sidedodge attacks.

Devils-_-legacy
03-12-2018, 04:15 AM
Beserker had it before the rework