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View Full Version : How is this OK in your book?



S.ArthurDayne
03-10-2018, 05:23 PM
Assasins back dodge OOS is faster than other heroes with stamina , u cant punish then when they go OOS , so they can just spam their 400ms light and if u are Gladiator u have 1000 tools and 400 ms unblockables and every singe one can be feinted then u have another 1000 options and u just spam and spam and spam no worries about your stamina cause if u run out u just back dodge at the speed of sound and no one can catch u or punish u .. PLS fix this cause its ******ed , even more so now cause there is less parrying so assasin just spam ther faster then blinking speed attacks .

BarbeQMichael
03-10-2018, 06:00 PM
No one thinks it is ok, luckily devs said they are looking to fix the backsteps. Don't know how it took so long though.

Tyrjo
03-10-2018, 06:02 PM
Hopefully soon. Dodging OOS should be dangerous as eff imo.

Protos_88
03-10-2018, 07:06 PM
haha yah in s 10 meybe

UbiInsulin
03-10-2018, 07:28 PM
Per Eric on Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/7znr3n/proving_once_more_that_backflip_is_a_get_out_of/duq32kc/):



The Fight Team is working on a global backdodge change hopefully to come later this season.

[UPDATE]And I just got a precision from the Fight Team that back flip is separate from backdodge, so my response, while true in general, doesn't apply to the Shinobi's special move here. That said, they see your feedback on the backflip!

XJadeDragoonX
03-10-2018, 07:34 PM
If we are being realistic here, it makes sense. Assassin's are the weakest when out of stamina in every other way. They have reflect guard so defending is extremely difficult. They have the least amount of health so a punish is worse for them. A shinobi can die from full health from certain oos max punish. To compensate, they move faster. This is balanced. I use all characters so I don't want you to think this is a biased opinion. But I can hunker down significantly easier with non reflex guard characters because reflex guard is hot garbage. Doesn't even work half the time

Waynedetta40k
03-10-2018, 07:43 PM
If we are being realistic here, it makes sense. Assassin's are the weakest when out of stamina in every other way. They have reflect guard so defending is extremely difficult. They have the least amount of health so a punish is worse for them. A shinobi can die from full health from certain oos max punish. To compensate, they move faster. This is balanced. I use all characters so I don't want you to think this is a biased opinion. But I can hunker down significantly easier with non reflex guard characters because reflex guard is hot garbage. Doesn't even work half the time

No its not. Going out of stamina is the assassins fault, she miss played and should be punished but instead they can just backdodge with no penalty. Back dodge should be 2 times slower when oos. You do not need to backdodge to defend yourself if oos you can still parry and sidedodge everything. When oss you should be forced to stay in the opponentsface and forced to defend only until you regained stamina.


Discussion here doesnt matter anyway IT WILL be changed.

XJadeDragoonX
03-10-2018, 07:52 PM
No its not. Going out of stamina is the assassins fault, she miss played and should be punished but instead they can just backdodge with no penalty. Back dodge should be 2 times slower when oos. You do not need to backdodge to defend yourself if oos you can still parry and sidedodge everything. When oss you should be forced to stay in the opponentsface and forced to defend only until you regained stamina.

There isnt "no penalty". You know they're gonna backdodge so just guard break them. They can't counter guard break when you do that. Idk. Maybe I just don't have as much an issue with it as other people. If you're upset about backdodge, the devs should make all characters even when oos. Assassin's have reflex guard and because of it, they have high mobility to defend themselves. Other characters have a static guard and because of that, have low mobility because they have high defense. It's an equal exchange. If you want to remove the assassin's mobility, remove reflex guard and I'm cool with it. nerfing mobility without compensating it with defense is a huge nerf to assassin's across the board. Plain and simple. Hopefully we can agree on that philosophy. It seems fair

Vrbas1
03-10-2018, 08:37 PM
There isnt "no penalty". You know they're gonna backdodge so just guard break them. They can't counter guard break when you do that. Idk.

That's his point though. Their dodges are both quick and distant. Like they can outrun forward dodges with their back dodge OOS. That's exactly unfair, as they face very little risk for poorly managing their stamina. Where other heros with puny dodges suffer more and trade only static block/guard, not a fair trade IMO.

XJadeDragoonX
03-10-2018, 08:48 PM
No its not. Going out of stamina is the assassins fault, she miss played and should be punished but instead they can just backdodge with no penalty. Back dodge should be 2 times slower when oos. You do not need to backdodge to defend yourself if oos you can still parry and sidedodge everything. When oss you should be forced to stay in the opponentsface and forced to defend only until you regained stamina.


Discussion here doesnt matter anyway IT WILL be changed.


That's his point though. Their dodges are both quick and distant. Like they can outrun forward dodges with their back dodge OOS. That's exactly unfair, as they face very little risk for poorly managing their stamina. Where other heros with puny dodges suffer more and trade only static block/guard, not a fair trade IMO.

You already have to remember that poor management of stamina isn't always the case. Many characters in the game do stamina damage. Also, like I said, it's a trade off. Mobility for defense. I'm cool with removing that for static guard. That's totally fair. But what a lot of people fail to realize is you can sprint after dodging assassin's and they still have to guess if your gonna grab or attack the exact same way. So for now, until it's changed, I suggest people struggling with backdodge try sprinting the assassin's down. It works a lot of the time and I get a max punish

Waynedetta40k
03-10-2018, 09:23 PM
You already have to remember that poor management of stamina isn't always the case. Many characters in the game do stamina damage. Also, like I said, it's a trade off. Mobility for defense. I'm cool with removing that for static guard. That's totally fair. But what a lot of people fail to realize is you can sprint after dodging assassin's and they still have to guess if your gonna grab or attack the exact same way. So for now, until it's changed, I suggest people struggling with backdodge try sprinting the assassin's down. It works a lot of the time and I get a max punish

lol no you dont get it, it wont be like its only the assassins that get ther backdodge nerfed but everyone. So no need to give you a static guard.

Protos_88
03-10-2018, 09:33 PM
try to faint with warden....u will be out of stamina rly fast... cent and warden are so f suck now... rly have classs need to parry now to get out of f spam ...

Cliff_001
03-10-2018, 10:34 PM
There isnt "no penalty". You know they're gonna backdodge so just guard break them. They can't counter guard break when you do that. Idk. Maybe I just don't have as much an issue with it as other people. If you're upset about backdodge, the devs should make all characters even when oos. Assassin's have reflex guard and because of it, they have high mobility to defend themselves. Other characters have a static guard and because of that, have low mobility because they have high defense. It's an equal exchange. If you want to remove the assassin's mobility, remove reflex guard and I'm cool with it. nerfing mobility without compensating it with defense is a huge nerf to assassin's across the board. Plain and simple. Hopefully we can agree on that philosophy. It seems fair
No. Just no.

VeniVidiViciBra
03-10-2018, 10:39 PM
Just unlock and run over to them. It seriously works everytime. It's only when you stay locked on and try to fight them that you can't catch up.

XJadeDragoonX
03-10-2018, 10:55 PM
There is an oos balance that it seems people don't want to face when discussing this subject. It's mobility vs defense. There's no debate about it. If you want to nerf a strength a specific character type has, you have to buff the weakness the character had that made it appropriate to have that strength in the first place to make it even. Reflex guard shouldn't even be a thing to begin with. I use literally one assassin in the entire roster so I'm not biased in any way. But the reason assassin's have the reflex is because they're fast as hell. Take away that speed, increase defense. Idk how anyone can possibly debate that.

My suggestions is

Remove backdodge speed when oos and make it so ALL characters have reflex guard when oos. I bet nobody would like that though since nobody wants their character to eat a nerf in the name of balance. But it makes sense. You're out of stamina so you can't keep your guard up.

Or eliminate reflex guard as a whole. It doesn't work as intended. Then nerf back dodge

Waynedetta40k
03-10-2018, 11:10 PM
Just unlock and run over to them. It seriously works everytime. It's only when you stay locked on and try to fight them that you can't catch up.

Yes you run towards them and you MIGHT catch before they regain there stamina or maybe not. I fought a 123 Rep dude today who played pk he was low and OOS so was I. I did exactly that guess what? He simply did hit me with an oos attack and got me with it. :D


There is an oos balance that it seems people don't want to face when discussing this subject. It's mobility vs defense. There's no debate about it. If you want to nerf a strength a specific character type has, you have to buff the weakness

No thats wrong your talking about it as if were 2 factors with no propotions. Reflex guard is by no means such a big weakness that an assassin should be nearly unpunishable if OOS. Its just not and that is the point. Giving Assassins static guard would be fine but than all their dodge moves need to be nerfed all the recovery times side dodge attack need to be slowed down and brought in lline with the other characters and ofc light attack dmg and attack speed need to be nerfed too because all of that is also something they get because they are assassins with reflex guard.

You can shout and call it unfair all you want. Its already state by mr pope that it will be fixed.

XJadeDragoonX
03-10-2018, 11:29 PM
Reflex guard is an insane weakness. Completely crippling against certain characters. But ok

VeniVidiViciBra
03-10-2018, 11:45 PM
Yes you run towards them and you MIGHT catch before they regain there stamina or maybe not. I fought a 123 Rep dude today who played pk he was low and OOS so was I. I did exactly that guess what? He simply did hit me with an oos attack and got me with it

So you were OOS too? If so, you shouldn't expect to punish someone in that position if you are in it too lol


Reflex guard is an insane weakness. Completely crippling against certain characters. But ok

Very true, thats why I don't like to play as an assassin. Glad vs Aramusha = worst matchup ever lol.

Cliff_001
03-10-2018, 11:50 PM
Really it is a big weakness? Then why is pk, shaman, and glad some of the best characters in the game? Its defiantly not as bad as you think.

VeniVidiViciBra
03-11-2018, 12:13 AM
It's a weakness defensively, those characters are strong because of their offense so it helps to balance them

Cliff_001
03-11-2018, 12:28 AM
So your saying they are balanced?

VeniVidiViciBra
03-11-2018, 12:31 AM
Not necessarily, it just helps that they don't have a strong defense. If they had a static guard like the other characters they really wouldn't have a weakness

Jarl.Felix
03-11-2018, 12:37 AM
Not necessarily, it just helps that they don't have a strong defense. If they had a static guard like the other characters they really wouldn't have a weakness

You clearly don't know how to play this game. Assasins reflex guard simply doesnt matter anymore. On top tier they simply block all your hits with a HIGH chance of parry because of their fast and superior parry timeframe.

VeniVidiViciBra
03-11-2018, 12:43 AM
Lol what??? How does anything I just said mean I don't know how to play? Reflex guard does make a difference in 4v4. In duels not so much but them having reflex guard doesn't give them an edge.

Cliff_001
03-11-2018, 12:48 AM
Attack is way more important than defence right now especially in 4v4's.

Dasteel1974
03-11-2018, 06:50 AM
Been saying this forever. Mentioned it many times. Not news to me. Complete garbage as is a number of other things in the game but they won’t change.

Knight_Raime
03-11-2018, 07:01 AM
You already have to remember that poor management of stamina isn't always the case. Many characters in the game do stamina damage. Also, like I said, it's a trade off. Mobility for defense. I'm cool with removing that for static guard. That's totally fair. But what a lot of people fail to realize is you can sprint after dodging assassin's and they still have to guess if your gonna grab or attack the exact same way. So for now, until it's changed, I suggest people struggling with backdodge try sprinting the assassin's down. It works a lot of the time and I get a max punish

What YOU fail to realize is an assassins back dash distance combined with their recovery means literally nothing can punish them for back dash spamming. Any sprint attack will be blocked. and dodge attack will be avoided. and GB is too slow from sprint to GB them. If you're playing against a bad assassin or they happen to mess up their timing yes. sprint GB works. But it's no where near as reliable as you think it is.