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Tecknoterrorist
03-06-2018, 02:58 PM
Make more slow and more short the distance of her tracking jump like other classes.
Remove all tracking skills from her. (from any other heroes too)
Nerf the damage of her bite, must be a normal light attack and REMOVE health regen after bite.
Make bite only on OOS player and not in bleeding players couse in dominion with PK or nobushi at side she can spam over and over and over Or remove the bite totally (is better).
Remove ANY hyper armor on her, she are assassin class, she cant have hyper armor. any other assassins too. Assassin CANT have hyper armor.

this is how to normalize shaman and make her a normal assassin class.

Charmzzz
03-06-2018, 03:18 PM
1. Pounce tracking already got nerfed.
2. No tracking? Sooo you can dodge anytime and you wont get hit? Seriously? No... Timing moves (parry, dodge, CGB) correctly is an essential mechanic in this game.
3. Damage should stay the same, just get rid of the heal. Dont forget: Pounce is highly punishable if dodged.
4. Nice idea (bite only on OOS). +1
5. Uhm, Berserker in Chains? Orochi Deflect? PK Deflect? Shinobi Kick? All those have Hyperarmor. What should they get for it? Faster attacks? ^^

Seems like you are pretty biased on Assassins and dont know how to deal with Shamans. Or how to balance games.

Tecknoterrorist
03-06-2018, 03:35 PM
1. Pounce tracking already got nerfed.
2. No tracking? Sooo you can dodge anytime and you wont get hit? Seriously? No... Timing moves (parry, dodge, CGB) correctly is an essential mechanic in this game.
3. Damage should stay the same, just get rid of the heal. Dont forget: Pounce is highly punishable if dodged.
4. Nice idea (bite only on OOS). +1
5. Uhm, Berserker in Chains? Orochi Deflect? PK Deflect? Shinobi Kick? All those have Hyperarmor. What should they get for it? Faster attacks? ^^

Seems like you are pretty biased on Assassins and dont know how to deal with Shamans. Or how to balance games.

I think assassins are wuld not to be a frontal attackers.. is wrong, as the name say they are assassins they must assassinate the targhet, backstabing, agility and opportunity strike and position, if you give an assassin hyper armor, make nosense to take a heavy armored class no? why i have to take an slow heavy armored class when berserker are fast, do more damage and is defense are more effective than other heavy armored class?
Hyper armor have to be put to heavy armored classes and stop. this game dont have class definition, all are the same no difference


1. Pounce tracking already got nerfed.

More


3. Damage should stay the same, just get rid of the heal. Dont forget: Pounce is highly punishable if dodged..

bite do more damage than weapon, is so wrong.



Seems like you are pretty biased on Assassins and dont know how to deal with Shamans. Or how to balance games. im not the best player but the shaman dont give me so highly problems, and i talk because shaman is a bit unbalance. and i know how to balance this game, just give a class definition.. assassin are assassin, heavy are heavy etc etc.. whats mean definition?

assassin: high damage, high speed, less defence, low HP
Heavy: high armor, high HP, less damage ,less speed.
is so simply

Hormly
03-06-2018, 03:38 PM
She also shouldnt be able to feint it

HazelrahFirefly
03-06-2018, 03:40 PM
Huh... my post got ate, so here's a short one:

Shaman is not that bad. I agree with tracking, it should not exist save for a few, rare moves. However, I haven't experienced the bite having tracking for a couple months now...

Bite idea is interesting, but perhaps just less damage on normal opponents, and more on oos targets. Having it only work on oos targets is silly.

Tecknoterrorist
03-06-2018, 03:41 PM
She also shouldnt be able to feint it


i agree, you cant feint a jump or if you want feint it, the fatigue is triple.

Charmzzz
03-06-2018, 03:44 PM
Which hyperarmored move is it that itches you Teckno? Like for real, which move exactly? Because most of the moves on Assassins that have it only got it to make the move viable in a multi-opponent setting. Assassins DONT want to trade. That's what Heavies want to do... And Hyperarmor is a trading feat exclusively.

Tecknoterrorist
03-06-2018, 03:50 PM
Which hyperarmored move is it that itches you Teckno? Like for real, which move exactly? Because most of the moves on Assassins that have it only got it to make the move viable in a multi-opponent setting. Assassins DONT want to trade. That's what Heavies want to do... And Hyperarmor is a trading feat exclusively.

hyper armor on berserker dodge. he dodge allready he need hyper armor for hit you in anycase? you dont see is a bit nosense? (i edit my preview reply on you read it)

Charmzzz
03-06-2018, 03:58 PM
1. Zerker does not get Hyperarmor on every Dodge afaik
2. You mean this?

Head Slicer
Now has Uninterruptible Stance starting at 100ms (was 300ms).
Developer Comments: Head Slicer is successful when used to dodge forward and trade with an attacker, so this is meant to make that a little easier.

Or this?

Light Opener and Heavy Opener gain Uninterruptible Stance if used immediately after a Feint.
Developer Comments: At high level, Berserker needs to mix Feints into the Chains. But Feinting means the Berserker would lose the Uninterruptible Stance benefit, and often end up taking a hit. Now, if you attack immediately after Feinting, your basic Light and basic Heavy will have Uninterruptible Stance. This should allow Berserker more opportunity to trades in mid-chains, if the opponent misreads, and allows him to continue applying pressure.

That's what I found in the notes. Zerker also gains Hyperarmor on every consecutive attack after the 2nd attack, but that is an old story.

Read the Dev Comments please. They explain why Zerker got the moves like this. And mostly I agree with them. Maybe it was a bit too much (400ms Light after a Feint? Gimme that on PK! ^^).

BarbeQMichael
03-06-2018, 03:59 PM
I'm not sure about the others, but the bite should definitely get a balance, like what you proposed. Or make it work like shugo's. Currently shugo's hug takes immensely longer so dodging it is trivial, it also deals less damage than shaman's plus when you miss it you will take damage from the move +damage from guardbreak/heavy whatever your opponent wants to do. So shaman's bite should be slower, shouldn't be able to feint it, deal lower damage (or the same if it is slowed down enough) and damage self on miss.

Tecknoterrorist
03-06-2018, 04:12 PM
Head Slicer
Now has Uninterruptible Stance starting at 100ms (was 300ms).
Developer Comments: Head Slicer is successful when used to dodge forward and trade with an attacker, so this is meant to make that a little easier.
.

this, i dodge attack a berserker in dodge attack he win hit allways because the hyperarmor. I repeat, for me assassin must to be an assassin not a front attacker. The front attackers are heavy and vanguard.

Thorstein31
03-06-2018, 05:03 PM
Shaman has already been nerfed at least two times since she was released, no need to keep nerfing her kit. There are new reworks and buffs incoming soon, letís wait to check how everything goes after that.

HazelrahFirefly
03-06-2018, 06:06 PM
Equaling the bite to the Shugoki's embrace might be a good point. If she misses she should take damage.

Not as much as the Shug of course, because he has more health and has the potential to one-shot just about everybody. Have her missed bites remove a bar of health, making it an extreme risk to try the second jump after the first has been dodged, but the first miss not too punishing.

I also think a gb after a missed bite should put the Shaman out of Stamina if she ia thrown, BUT that she should be able to cbg it.

BTTrinity
03-06-2018, 06:20 PM
No more guaranteed bash/bite after throw

Reduce throw distance

Make it so bite consumes half her stamina so she only gets one extra chance if she misses and possibly make it so if she misses she loses 25 health.

I also give +1 to bite being an OOS only thing.

Kahuf1
03-06-2018, 08:18 PM
What about idea:

1. Set her bite damage equal to remain bleed + light atk damage and heal her to the same numbers.
2. If her sucesfully bite anyone, refound her bite stamina cost, not refill whole bar.
3. Nerf with bigger time delay her feint jumps and jump attacks

Roseguard_Cpt
03-07-2018, 06:17 PM
I played with a buddy of mine last night who was a rep 10 shaman, after several matches of getting my butt handed to me I had him figured out and could beat him, but that's kind of the point of the game, learning how the opponent plays and adapting.
That said, the only changes I would make to Shaman is remove the guaranteed pounce after GB and throw, unless she manages to wall splat you with the throw. This could be done by delaying the startup of the pounce by a few hundred ms or by making the recovery for a non-wallsplat throw a little faster. The other change would be to increase the stamina cost of a whiffed pounce, seeing as she gets a full stamina restore if she lands it.
Looking at the other ideas on this thread however I'd like to add that I do not believe she should lose health on a whiffed pounce (bite). It's one of her tools and unlike Shugo it cannot one-shot kill. I also think it should not be only available on OOS opponents because that defeats the ability to punish it. If she can only bite a OOS person then she wont use it except then, but then the person who dodges it, being OOS cannot punish her.
Just my personal take on things, see you on the battlefield!