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e2michaelb
12-14-2005, 05:07 PM
My so-called 19" CRT monitor measures less than 18" on the diagonal. The usuable screen is nominally 14" wide x 11" high. I would like to get a larger LCD widescreen replacement. Questions:
Will the widescreen configuration alter or distort the game images?
Will an LCD screen handle the program on a par with the CRT?
-How wide can I go before I start to run into FOV or distortion problems?

e2michaelb
12-14-2005, 05:07 PM
My so-called 19" CRT monitor measures less than 18" on the diagonal. The usuable screen is nominally 14" wide x 11" high. I would like to get a larger LCD widescreen replacement. Questions:
Will the widescreen configuration alter or distort the game images?
Will an LCD screen handle the program on a par with the CRT?
-How wide can I go before I start to run into FOV or distortion problems?

CAF96th_DieHard
12-14-2005, 05:54 PM
Many LCD's work flawlessly and actually are an improvement over CRT's.

Some things to look for are:

* Response time of 16 ms or less. Don't worry about refresh rates.. most LCD refresh rates are 60 hz and not adjustable. Blurring or ghosting will not be a problem as long as you choose a LCD with a fast enough Response time.

* I have a widescreen Dell, 2005FPW, and the PF game is not stretched or distorted. You will need to alter your in conf.ini file to achieve the correct setting since widescreen is not native to the game, but can be manually set.

Hope this is helpful, I'm sure others can add to this

e2michaelb
12-14-2005, 08:02 PM
Diehard:

What is it I should alter in my conf.ini file? I think you dropped a word.

CAF96th_DieHard
12-14-2005, 08:43 PM
~S~

For my monitor it goes like this:
[Window]
width=1680
Height=1050
saveaspect= 0

I noticed that setting my ingame resolution to the highest setting prior to making this change improved the appearance greatly. One point, if you make any changes to your hardware settings in game you will need to re-enter these changes as the game will set it back to the default.

2 threads for you to read:
First (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/8881034073/r/8881034073#8881034073)

Second (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/1251058723/p/1)

Worf101
12-15-2005, 01:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CAF96th_DieHard:
* I have a widescreen Dell, 2005FPW, and the PF game is not stretched or distorted. You will need to alter your in conf.ini file to achieve the correct setting since widescreen is not native to the game, but can be manually set.

Hope this is helpful, I'm sure others can add to this </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1 on the Dell. Never thought I'd ever own anything with THAT name on it. But other than my TrackIR the wide screen's been my bets purchase this year...

99th Worf101

lbhskier37
12-15-2005, 03:45 PM
Make sure you get one with DVI. Hooking it up with a DVI cable looks way better than an analog cable.

lairdperkins
12-15-2005, 10:44 PM
I've got a Dell 2005FPW as well and am extremely happy with it. It measures 17" wide by 11" high. (Take two 8.5 x 11 sheets of paper and put them side by side EXACTLY that size and completely viewable over that entire area). Dell also has the 2405FPW which is 24" on the diagonal.

Dell quotes the grey to grey response time as 16ms... the actual panel manufacturer quotes it as 12ms... I can tell you from experience that I play twitch reflex games on it (read counterstrike:source and DoD:S) at a fairly high level and actually do better on the LCD than on a 19" CRT.

A few notes:

One The native panel resolution on the 2005fpw is 1680x1050... you can use other resolutions but they're much more likely to look blured etc. I'd highly recomend that your Video Card be capable of displaying the games you like to play at a decent frame rate at that resolution before taking the ~$500 plunge for the panel.

Two Pacific fighters specifically, does not truely support widescreen. It supports the resolution and as of the 4.02 patch, the real glitches were fixed. What was not fixed was the field of view. Basically your view is only as wide as that of a 4:3 users's and the top and bottom of the view are actually less. This is also true of some other games, most notably Battlefield 2. The VAST majority of other titles support true widescreen resolutions however, and you can actually see more than a 4:3 user... which is probably why I do better at Counterstrike =)

Check out the forums Here (http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/) for specific information on various games and help getting them running on Widescreen.

MagnumHK
12-16-2005, 01:34 PM
Question about Native Resolution.

Does this mean the monitor will work well only at that resolution (eg. 1600 x 1200).
If I switch to a lower resloution (eg. 1024 x 768) because my framerates are better will the picture quality be greatly degraded?

Put it another way. Will my switching to any resolution other than the native resolution be the same as switching resolutions on my CRT monitor. On the old CRT switching to higher or lower resolutions does not present a problem with picture clarity or blurring. Do the LCD monitors have a weakness in this regard.

Can you get LCD monitors that do not have Native Resolution to avoid this problem?

Freelancer-1
12-18-2005, 09:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MagnumHK:
Question about Native Resolution.

Does this mean the monitor will work well only at that resolution (eg. 1600 x 1200).
If I switch to a lower resloution (eg. 1024 x 768) because my framerates are better will the picture quality be greatly degraded?

Put it another way. Will my switching to any resolution other than the native resolution be the same as switching resolutions on my CRT monitor. On the old CRT switching to higher or lower resolutions does not present a problem with picture clarity or blurring. Do the LCD monitors have a weakness in this regard.

Can you get LCD monitors that do not have Native Resolution to avoid this problem? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are LCD monitors that are total cr@p and there are ones that are good. The cheaper the monitor the more likely you are to have ghosting at non-native resolutions.

A good quality monitor, on the other hand, can run at lower resolutions without any noticable effect. For instance, my monitor, a Dell 2001FP 21" has a native rez of 1600x1200 but seems to be perfectly happy to run as low as 1280x960 with no apparent loss in picture quality.

So, the short answer is, do your homework before buying and you won't be disappointed.

MagnumHK
12-19-2005, 02:51 PM
Thanks for the response Freelancer-1.

dbillo
12-20-2005, 01:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
...For instance, my monitor, a Dell 2001FP 21" has a native rez of 1600x1200 but seems to be perfectly happy to run as low as 1280x960 with no apparent loss in picture quality. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Freelancer, how did you get your 2001FP to run 1280x960? I have the same panel (It's 20" BTW) but only see 1280x1024 in the list, then it jumps down to 1152x864. (nVidia 6800U) I have been trying some lower resolutions for handling Perfect mode, but I've been doing it by turning of monitor scaling.

Freelancer-1
12-20-2005, 03:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dbillo:
Freelancer, how did you get your 2001FP to run 1280x960? I have the same panel (It's 20" BTW) but only see 1280x1024 in the list, then it jumps down to 1152x864. (nVidia 6800U) I have been trying some lower resolutions for handling Perfect mode, but I've been doing it by turning of monitor scaling. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My mistake 20.1 became 21 in my addled brain.

As for the resolution this is what I have:


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/Freelancer1/Misc/setup.gif

No option for 1280x1024 although that is what I run my desktop at. Does seem a little odd, doesn't it? May have something to do with your video card or drivers.

dbillo
12-20-2005, 04:02 PM
Okay, you're talking about the list of resolutions in il2fb setup. I was referring to the list of resolutions in the nVidia driver settings. Actually, I don't find any 1280x resolutions in the il2fb setup list! It jumps from 1600x1200 down to 1152x864.

There is an option to add custom resolutions in the nVidia driver, but the legalese that popped up scared me off. I really don't understand why 1280x960 doesn't show up as it is a proper 4:3 aspect ratio, same as the monitor panel.

In any case, you are using it, apparently with no ill effect on the panel, so perhaps I should just add it and see if it works.

What is your card, BTW?

Freelancer-1
12-20-2005, 05:09 PM
There are a number of helpful threads on how to set up unsupported resolutions in the config file. If you search under widescreen the odds are pretty good you will find something, as setting resolutions always pops up when discussing widesreens.

LEXX_Luthor
12-20-2005, 05:15 PM
Will an LCD screen handle the program on a par with the CRT?

A fascinating talk over at hardforum...

yblocgerg:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I provide this merely for amusement, as you can see from my sig:

The industry has decided that space sims are no long viable due to the advent of LCD displays. There is no longer a possible way to obtain a realistic level of black space with our current, mind boggling graphics hardware

(same reason lots of pple disliked doom3, bahahaha) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

mhenley:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I have to agree with you, yet at the same time point out that you couldn't be more wrong.

Viable = Possible

The industry has decided that space sims are no longer -profitable- due to a vast number of consumers choosing the wrong hardware. It has been known since the very beginning that flat panel monitors were not capable of displaying true black, yet consumers were more concerned about desk layout, weight of product, and were sometimes even swayed by taking into consideration that they might occaisonally need to move around their desktop pc's monitor.

I'm willing to bet that Doom3 didn't receive as much appriciation from the gamers, because the gamers made poor choices, and the industry suffered as a result. This may be a factor in game companies no longer making space sims, due to the recent popularity of game-destroying display equipment.

As far as your comment, "There is no longer a possible way to obtain a realistic level of black...", yes, its possible, with CRT. Ask anybody who does CAD work, or any game enthusiast who refuses to give up what LCD cannot provide... blackness. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hard Forum thread on the demise of the Space Sim ~&gt; http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=962453&page=4&pp=20 (http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=962453&amp;page=4&amp;pp=20)

However, it may eventually transpire that LCDs may be made to offer true blackness and so allow simulation of low light levels, permitting for the possibility of a future RAF vs Luftwaffe night sim for example.

Freelancer-1
12-20-2005, 07:00 PM
I have to disagree with the "can't see blacks on LCDs". I think it's something everyone says and so assumes is fact.

That may have been true in the past with early generation lcds. I have to say though, that I really don't see a difference.

I have a desktop on my system with a resolution of 2560x1024 over two monitors. One, the previously mentioned Dell 2001 fp(lcd) and the other, a Samsung SyncMaster 955 df(crt). I have these right here in front of me, right now, and I do not see a difference in the depth of the black.

I'm not sure if this makes sense to try, but here is a screenshot of the entire desktop. I believe that if there is a difference in the depth of black it will show up. Maybe. It depends how the comuter records the shot, I suppose. This is simply a blank black wallpaper. Just as I can't see a difference on the actual monitors, I can't tell on the screenshot.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/Freelancer1/Misc/Desktop.gif

Freelancer-1
12-20-2005, 08:45 PM
That was a waste of time. Shoulda figured. I skewed the color on one of the monitors and did another screenshot. It came out looking just fine. So I guess you can't really do a comparison that other people will be able to see on their monitors. Half of that window looked orange on the monitor. And as you can see in the pic, it looks just fine.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/Freelancer1/Misc/Resizeizard-1.jpg

I guess it'll just be my word that the blacks look good on a good monitor.

LEXX_Luthor
12-20-2005, 09:01 PM
Thanks Free. You may be right. Turn out the room lights and adjust contrast/brightness and see if there's a difference. I borrowed one recent LCD and my astronomy software was useless -- its so realistic it requires true CRT blackness and very dimmed room lights.

Freelancer-1
12-20-2005, 09:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Thanks Free. You may be right. Turn out the room lights and adjust contrast/brightness and see if there's a difference. I borrowed one recent LCD and my astronomy software was useless -- its so realistic it requires true CRT blackness and very dimmed room lights. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good call, LEXX.

I just fired up Deep Space Explorer and dragged the Andromeda Galaxy across the two monitors. There was a slight, but definite difference in the blacks.

I guess it depends on what you need the monitor for whether an LCD or a CRT is best. That said, for gaming, I think a good quality LCD is the way to go.

LEXX_Luthor
12-20-2005, 09:24 PM
Free:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">That said, for gaming, I think a good quality LCD is the way to go. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Day dogfight shooter gaming -- yes!

Strategic RAF vs Luftwaffe night simulation -- no! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

pingu says not to Panic since they will make LCDs better, and it makes sense, as that poster linked to above states, professionals may require CRTs and their blackness ability to do their grafix work.

Steg.
12-20-2005, 11:16 PM
I am running a Dell 2405FPW 24" LCD and it looks awesome. It is also prob one of the cheaper 24" monitors out there with Dells 20% off for buying on the net.

Be aware though that Dell's after sales service can leave a lot to be desired.

As for the missing resolutions chek that the "Hide modes that this monitor cannot support" box is unchecked. I had a prolem with getting 1920 * 1200 (monitors native res) until I unchecked that box.

Freelancer-1
12-20-2005, 11:35 PM
The 2405FPW looks like a nice monitor. I was definitely considering it. I have heard however, that with a number of them, there is an annoying dentist drill like whine after about five minutes of turning it on.

As far as I know this hasn't been addressed by Dell, so I backed off.

Steg.
12-21-2005, 12:32 PM
No problem with that as far as I have seen, but there is a problem with the onboard UBS hub killing the monitor.

I had this happen to one, and Dells tech support were not too surprised, apparently it is a know issue with their monitors with inbuilt USB (or so I am told).

No problem replacing it from Dells point of view, just a hassle getting through their tech support, which for OZ is a call center on the other side of the world.

As I said earlier the monitor looks awesome, but Dells after sales support leaves a lot to be desired.

MC202zipper
12-21-2005, 01:09 PM
Well, gentlemen, my two cents:
- anybody doing graphic as a job I have seen uses CRT, both for the reason of the true color rendering (wider scale AFAIK, a not proper "blackness") as you were discussing before....

- the issue of native resolution is a problem on most of the average LCD monitor I have seen

- last but not least there is the issue of response times, even if at the moment many of the average priced LCD start having good response times (less than 12ms is considered good AFAIK)

- a friend of mine was working for a while with the italian representative of EIZO monitors, going around to demonstrate to graphic studies the new spacial LCDs EIZO developed for graphic.
He was saying that image quality & response times were awesome, and he is a website designer for a job and hardcore gamer, so I trusted him & he is quite qualified in judging... the only problem of these 21" (they start from 19" up) beauties is the price, he mentioned it, I can't remember it exactly now, but it was something above 1000-1200" for the 19" TO HIM (I mean, still to be overcharged & taxed...)with the 21" going close to 1700-1800"... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
- OK, le't's say that we are going for something good but not stellar like that, IMHO you have to think very well what you want from your PC: if you are an hardcore gamer, & you are going to use that PC 90% of time for gaming, than there is nothing like CRT. True, now we have some outstanding LCD that are as good as CRT image quality for 90% of time...but at 200% price. I am now using on my gaming rig an outstanding 19" CRT Samsung, with very good IQ, that costed me less than 300"... a **** 17" LCD price... so if you are in gaming, why pay twice or more the money for something that is quite as good but not completely?

If instead your PC is going to be used mainly for Internet or office application, or is setup in your living room, of course a LCD is more desirable... mainly for aesthetic reasons, IMHO.
It can be less tiring (no flickering) than a CRT, but again, with a good CRT, say a black SONY Trinitron and 100Mhz refresh, I dare you to find flickering...

S!

MC202zipper