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View Full Version : Parry got nerfed, so what?



Morpheus256
02-11-2018, 01:54 PM
Parrying got nerfed to be less powerful against heavy attacks and that's great. This change should've been made ages ago. Being rewarded with an insta-kill or a guaranteed heavy (in most cases) for parrying a heavy is completely unjustified, right? So what about all other defensive tools that guarantee huge damage off heavy attacks?

Why has parrying been nerfed vs heavy attacks but deflects/deflect-like mechanics still guarantee overly high amounts of damage vs heavies? One character got a move that guarantees 30 damage off a heavy block (Conq), Kensei still gets a GB off heavies with his foward dodge > GB and most assassins have guaranteed deflect attacks that deal as much damage as other characters' heavies.

Nerfing parries vs heavy attacks was a much needed change. Leaving defensive tools that are just as powerful as parries completely untouched is something that is incomprehensible to me.

Once the parry rework goes live players can just pick heroes that still get huge damage for low-risk. Examples for such characters would be Berserker (GB off deflect), Orochi (35 damage off deflect), PK (30 damage off deflect) and Kensei ( GB off deflect). The parry changes didn't affect these charcters at all while others get considerably less damage for countering enemy heavy attacks.

This is an issue that should be addressed at some point.

Inb4 "but deflects are harder to do than parries". No, they are not. They are just as easy/safely to do as parries if performed against heavies.

S0Mi_xD
02-11-2018, 02:19 PM
You answered it yourself with the point you deny - Deflects are harder and more risky.

David_gorda
02-11-2018, 02:25 PM
Yeah i think deflects needs nerfs to, assassin are already the best classes so nerf to parries but not deflect buffs the best classes even more.

PDXGorechild
02-11-2018, 03:41 PM
Yeah itís justified due to being more risky. The thing about parry is that someone skilled could use almost any class and use the same turtle and parry > gb tactic to win, making everything a bit monotone I think. Deflects are unique to certain classes, mostly ones with lower health pools who risk dodging into a heavy.

Pinklander_Matt
02-11-2018, 04:57 PM
in my honoest opinion, assassin shouldn't have the parry sys in his kit. they have the deflect and all heroes (except for ororchi and berseker 1.0), have many offensive kit.
They are fast, they do a lot of dmg,they have fast good dodge used, for take distance in OOS situations.
So,in the end, if they just give the ability to defelect Unblokcables, they no need parry abilities anymore XD

Vrbas1
02-11-2018, 05:05 PM
Deflect window is tighter and less consistent than parry window. The risk is eating huge damage from a heavy. Deflects are infinitely less common than parries so the way I see it there's not "a problem". Not to mention nearly all characters (and after patch ALL) require user input following a deflect. Even then the damage isn't guaranteed depending on the match up (glad skewer vs shugoki hyper armor, anyone vs orochi - just dodge, etc).

S0Mi_xD
02-11-2018, 05:08 PM
in my honoest opinion, assassin shouldn't have the parry sys in his kit. they have the deflect and all heroes (except for ororchi and berseker 1.0), have many offensive kit.
They are fast, they do a lot of dmg,they have fast good dodge used, for take distance in OOS situations.
So,in the end, if they just give the ability to defelect Unblokcables, they no need parry abilities anymore XD

Taking away parry from Assassins would be really stupid.
Parry is a core mechanic, especially for 4v4 modes - without parry your chance to survive a gank as an assassin is practiacally Zero...
Deflect isn't as easy to use as Parry in a fight situation - it is MUCH more dangerous - one deflect bait and you can't do anything against it = free GB for the enemy.
Against a parry bait you can feint the parry attempt ... on a deflect there is no turning back.

Vakris_One
02-11-2018, 05:37 PM
Parrying got nerfed to be less powerful against heavy attacks and that's great. This change should've been made ages ago. Being rewarded with an insta-kill or a guaranteed heavy (in most cases) for parrying a heavy is completely unjustified, right? So what about all other defensive tools that guarantee huge damage off heavy attacks?

Why has parrying been nerfed vs heavy attacks but deflects/deflect-like mechanics still guarantee overly high amounts of damage vs heavies? One character got a move that guarantees 30 damage off a heavy block (Conq), Kensei still gets a GB off heavies with his foward dodge > GB and most assassins have guaranteed deflect attacks that deal as much damage as other characters' heavies.

Nerfing parries vs heavy attacks was a much needed change. Leaving defensive tools that are just as powerful as parries completely untouched is something that is incomprehensible to me.

Once the parry rework goes live players can just pick heroes that still get huge damage for low-risk. Examples for such characters would be Berserker (GB off deflect), Orochi (35 damage off deflect), PK (30 damage off deflect) and Kensei ( GB off deflect). The parry changes didn't affect these charcters at all while others get considerably less damage for countering enemy heavy attacks.

This is an issue that should be addressed at some point.

Inb4 "but deflects are harder to do than parries". No, they are not. They are just as easy/safely to do as parries if performed against heavies.
Deflects and the Kensei's superior block into forward dash GB are both riskier and harder to pull off than a parry. The timing to initiate one properly is slightly tighter than for a parry and most importantly you cannot feint out of a deflect/superior block dash attempt whereas you can cancel your parry attempt when you see it was a bait. Dashing for a deflect that was then feinted leaves you exposed to a free GB or hit ergo it is much riskier than a parry attempt.

Knight_Raime
02-11-2018, 06:51 PM
The difficulty of something is always subjective and never really something that should be a cornerstone of an argument.
What is factual is superior blocked GB's (sans conqs from neutral pre rework) and deflects are inherently riskier than a parry.

You can easily feint your failed parry attempt and block/react to most of the opponents responses.
You can't make your dodge for an attempted deflect and falling for a heavy feint opens you to a free GB.
Same goes with superior block dodges.

Also I absolutely do not agree that it's easier/safer to attempt to deflect heavies. as heavies can be feinted. and heavy timings vary a LOT more than light attacks.
Light attacks also do less damage and most people in the cast can't feint/cancel a light. So I would argue it's actually safer/less punishing to attempt a deflect on a light than a parry.

Knight_Raime
02-11-2018, 06:59 PM
Yeah i think deflects needs nerfs to, assassin are already the best classes so nerf to parries but not deflect buffs the best classes even more.

Oh yeah good idea. lets nerf an inherently risky move to further discourage it's use. Good idea.


in my honoest opinion, assassin shouldn't have the parry sys in his kit. they have the deflect and all heroes (except for ororchi and berseker 1.0), have many offensive kit.
They are fast, they do a lot of dmg,they have fast good dodge used, for take distance in OOS situations.
So,in the end, if they just give the ability to defelect Unblokcables, they no need parry abilities anymore XD

"they are fast..." if this is a reference to light attacks than no. Nearly every hero in the game has a 500ms light attack.
"they do a lot of damage.." So lets forget about shugoki's ability to OHK someone. Lets forget about centurions cutscene combo. lets forget about raiders max punish. etc.
"they have fast good dodge" pk and shaman are the only ones with 500ms dodges. other assassins have pretty much the same dodge recovery as most other heros in the game. there are only a few who have 700ms dodge recoveries. The back dodge is the only good dodge assassins have over most heros. and we all agree back dodging is insane and needs fixing.

Charmzzz
02-11-2018, 08:25 PM
You do realize that Deflects are bullsht vs any hyperarmor move, but parry is not? So, as an Assassin who wants to Deflect, you have to be veeery aware of the chains and options the enemy has, because any hyperarmor will fck your Deflect up and let you eat alot of Damage.

Knight_Raime
02-11-2018, 08:26 PM
You do realize that Deflects are bullsht vs any hyperarmor move, but parry is not? So, as an Assassin who wants to Deflect, you have to be veeery aware of the chains and options the enemy has, because any hyperarmor will fck your Deflect up and let you eat alot of Damage.

don't forget the fact that you can't deflect unblockables.
and multi hit attacks like zerk's zone also mess you up.

Charmzzz
02-11-2018, 08:33 PM
don't forget the fact that you can't deflect unblockables.
and multi hit attacks like zerk's zone also mess you up.

True. But hey, lets nerf the already very situational and hard to pull of Deflects... ;)

Knight_Raime
02-11-2018, 08:38 PM
True. But hey, lets nerf the already very situational and hard to pull of Deflects... ;)

lmao. funny cause I said that same thing earlier in the thread. xD

Halvtand
02-11-2018, 08:59 PM
All of that aside, I think it would be pretty interesting to see what would happen to the game and its online balance or environment.
Sure, we'd see a huge drop in assassin-players, and people would go after them on sight, but it would also mean that the players who would still choose to play assassins would have to play differently from all the other classes. Ganking would not be an option, they'd have to seek out loners, concentrate on the offensive more perhaps?
I'm not saying we should strive to get this done, or that it would be good. Just interesting to think about. Maybe it would be an idea for an event?

Zhantay
02-11-2018, 09:28 PM
All of that aside, I think it would be pretty interesting to see what would happen to the game and its online balance or environment.
Sure, we'd see a huge drop in assassin-players, and people would go after them on sight, but it would also mean that the players who would still choose to play assassins would have to play differently from all the other classes. Ganking would not be an option, they'd have to seek out loners, concentrate on the offensive more perhaps?
I'm not saying we should strive to get this done, or that it would be good. Just interesting to think about. Maybe it would be an idea for an event?

Would love to see it too, just to see the effects, playing assassin should be hard since you are trading power for speed but in For Honor, it's the safest, strongest, most forgiving option in the game. If they removed parry then assassin players will have to work more for there kills and be more rewarding but there will be a backlash from the community.

I don't hate assassins but playing it is really easy almost too easy.

Knight_Raime
02-11-2018, 09:34 PM
Would love to see it too, just to see the effects, playing assassin should be hard since you are trading power for speed but in For Honor, it's the safest, strongest, most forgiving option in the game. If they removed parry then assassin players will have to work more for there kills and be more rewarding but there will be a backlash from the community.

I don't hate assassins but playing it is really easy almost too easy.

removing parry in general? or just on assassins? because both are poor ideas and I shouldn't have to explain why.
I think non assassins are easier. hybrids with the exception of valk imo are the strongest. and you can argue about the benefits of reflex guard all day plenty will tell you the downsides/bugs.
I find it immensely easier to play a hero with a static guard.

Nerfing parry rewards was the right way to go for both assassins and non assassins.

Morpheus256
02-12-2018, 03:11 PM
Deflects are harder to do than parries? Yeah, sure. Perhaps on console. Deflecting heavies on PC is the easiest thing you could possibly think of.

You can input deflects past the feint window so there's almost no risk vs certain characters. Cent might be the only one who is (slightly more) difficult to deflect.

I'll stick to playing heroes with strong deflects and get easy damage regardless of how "hard to do" deflects are according to some people.

Vakris_One
02-12-2018, 03:23 PM
Deflects are harder to do than parries? Yeah, sure. Perhaps on console. Deflecting heavies on PC is the easiest thing you could possibly think of.

You can input deflects past the feint window so there's almost no risk vs certain characters. Cent might be the only one who is (slightly more) difficult to deflect.

I'll stick to playing heroes with strong deflects and get easy damage regardless of how "hard to do" deflects are according to some people.
Enjoy getting rekt by heavy feints then my friend. Would love to run into your assassins if all you do is try to deflect. All I'd need to do is feint my heavies and either GB your dodge or parry your dodge strike. Job done. And if your assassin's ability to parry is actually removed like some on here are fantasizing about then gg, ez win.

Trenk2009
02-12-2018, 07:26 PM
I love how you act as if parrying is as easy as deflecting lol.
Deflecting timing is way harder.
Dodging overall is way more situational than blocking and isn't as efficient at all.
You can't deflect unblockables.
You are way more likely to get gb if you try to deflect.

Other defensive mecanics doesn't need a nerf. They are hard enough to do to be worth the reward. Let's just wait for the season 5 to release and see how stats moves.

Knight_Raime
02-12-2018, 09:48 PM
Deflects are harder to do than parries? Yeah, sure. Perhaps on console. Deflecting heavies on PC is the easiest thing you could possibly think of.

You can input deflects past the feint window so there's almost no risk vs certain characters. Cent might be the only one who is (slightly more) difficult to deflect.

I'll stick to playing heroes with strong deflects and get easy damage regardless of how "hard to do" deflects are according to some people.

If that were believeable then I feel like i'd see more people deflecting when I watch pc. But I don't.
Not really sure how you think playing on pc gives you a bigger window. it's the same on both pc and console. Having 60 fps might let you see something clearer which in an indirect way might allow you to react better. but factually pc and console run the same base mechanics.

If you're truly good at deflecting heavies than more props to you. Unfortunately for you though that's not the case for majority of players across all available platforms. So while a nerf to deflect and other defensive systems might make sense to you that doesn't make your suggestions to nerf said options a good fit for everyone else.