PDA

View Full Version : Lets talk about the original For Honor...



Ianoneshot
01-19-2018, 04:39 AM
I am known for being annoying when it comes to this kind of stuff, however I just want to talk about the original idea of for honor.

So, Jason made a whole bunch of awesome concepts for the game, listed but not limited to was:

Had a historical point of view.
3 heroes that had cutomizable armor and loadouts.
takes place in the boiling sea, the burning desert, and the mountains of Ashfeld.
The maps were all unique and un-linear.

So then later and terrible thing happened... Somebody had the brilliant idea to make 12 heroes, make the heroes without loadouts, give them fantasy and stereotyped armor, and much more. This went on and on with (great) ideas being tossed out the window. Eventually Jason got fed-up with this and LEFT. Leaving Roman and Damien to now run For Honor's future. Which is now fantasy-driven.

Lets look at some of the concepts that were originally in the game.
http://conceptartworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/for-honor-game-concept-art-remko-troost-forhonor-research.jpg
This image shows us the VIKING class. I like this idea. Realistic-looking armor and weapons. Then later on you get more bad*** looking armor but without all the crappy golden spikes. How would you like this?

https://mir-s3-cdn-cf.behance.net/project_modules/max_1200/01fce228553111.55c5ddb0f0487.jpg
https://i2.wp.com/www.iamag.co/features/itsart/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/making-for-honor-4.jpg?w=371&h=210&crop
In this image we get to see the opening moments of dominion. If you don't believe that's the case I will show you proof later on how I know this. But being in your keep- there are enemies at your gates, you and your brothers and sister are banging your weapons, shouting war cries pf "OPEN THE GATES!" and gets you all pumped up for the battle! How would you like this? This could be easily returned into For Honor now tbh,

https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/covers/images/001/474/529/large/pawel-brudniak-portfolio-mini-01.jpg?1447073008
Yes his is still fantasy armor but look at it! It looks like it can be real AND it's awesome looking! This is for the Samurai btw and don't tell me they wore wood. Wood armor was not for samurai but for the warriors before them. This could easily make a return into the game due to nothing really making any clipping issues.


https://i.imgur.com/gEFuwVk.jpg
Now this is a little more real than the previous armor. This armor looks SWEET as well! Yes it is sorta an armor set right now but there are way more things that give it that cooler look.

https://mir-s3-cdn-cf.behance.net/project_modules/max_1200/5c6bdb28553111.55c5ddb106431.jpg
Now here we see the making of what was going to be one of the maps. But now it's gone. Would you like this destroyed keep map?

https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/001/474/515/large/pawel-brudniak-pawel-brudniak-forhonor-db01.jpg?1447072842
The knight armor SURE IS DIFFERENT from what we have now, black and golden spikes with wings an your head. This is believable and cool-looking at the same time. Yet again connected to the first image there could be a cooler armor set later on that is still believable and cool-looking. What are your thoughts?




One last question: Who decided to make For Honor the way it is now? (Not counting Damien and Roman).

Tundra 793
01-19-2018, 04:48 AM
So, Jason made a whole bunch of awesome concepts for the game, listed but not limited to was:

Had a historical point of view.
3 heroes that had cutomizable armor and loadouts.
takes place in the boiling sea, the burning desert, and the mountains of Ashfeld.
The maps were all unique and un-linear.

I would absolutely love it, if you could provide sources for these claims.

I used to believe Jason left Ubisoft because he was extremely displeased with how For Honor turned out. But after watching a lecture he gave about developing a game from scratch, after leaving Ubisoft, I'm more convinced Jason simply wanted a game on the market, based around his idea of a melee fighting system, what For Honor calls the "Art of Battle" I believe.
Once For Honor went gold, he had achieved his goal, and moved on to pursue new dreams.

But if you have evidence that say otherwise, I'm all ears man.


This image shows us the VIKING class. I like this idea. Realistic-looking armor and weapons.

That piece of concept art is absolutely not, in any way, realistic. For Honor, to the best of my knowledge, was never intended to be realistic, or historically accurate. Early game models and concept art might seem more realistic, but I believe this is just because they're more restrained.
An argument can absolutely be made that the art style has gone off the rails, but that's a topic for another time.

EDIT; Just did some research on Platige Image, listed as the company behind those 2 "models". It struck me as odd that Ubisoft would hire a third party to design their models. Turns out they didn't. Platige made those models for For Honor's cinematic trailer. Those models probably never existed on For Honor's engine, so they'd never be compatible with the current game.

Jazz117Volkov
01-19-2018, 05:01 AM
I actually like how For Honor turned out. I know, screw me, right?

That said, there's definitely things I'd like to see improved or expanded, but believe me, so do the men and women working on this thing.

What you have here is the fantasy of an expectation, an abstraction of reality where a "better" version of this game exists due to unobtainable attributes. Things work in your head really easily because the stuff breaking it in reality is absent. This happens a lot with creative projects, and fan speculation of what "could have been". The truth is, this is what could have been, because this is what was.

Furthermore, a lot of the features seen in those concept pieces can be seen in the finished game. Granted, not all on one character. The Orochi and Berserker are similar in ways to some of those concepts, as is the Warden and such. And the helm on the knightess in that last image is in the game (and it's just as ugly >_>).

Mia.Nora
01-19-2018, 05:01 AM
Initial design direction was apparently later on discarded for a more Blizzar~ish design theme, probably they thought it would sell more if it were. Seeing the current effects and weapons I doubt it will ever go back to realism ever.

That is assuming that there will be any new stuff from this point on.

Jazz117Volkov
01-19-2018, 05:08 AM
EDIT; Just did some research on Platige Image, listed as the company behind those 2 "models". It struck me as odd that Ubisoft would hire a third party to design their models. Turns out they didn't. Platige made those models for For Honor's cinematic trailer. Those models probably never existed on For Honor's engine, so they'd never be compatible with the current game.

I think the procedure is the 3D company gets a bunch of early concepts to work with (they'd probably be given fairly strict guidelines), then they produce a 3D cinematic. But it is as you said, those assets would have never existed in a playable format.

A lot of companies practice this (and for good reason). I think SquareEnix is one of the few studios that do all their own 3D cut-scenes.


on-topic:

I think For Honor improvements begin with ditching microtransactions and sparing us the all the "spiked" armour variations.

Also, most legendary tier weapons look horrific.

The early art direction was spot on, a lot of the recent stuff is ungood.

This is so much cooler than...
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/for-honor/images/c/c6/Warden_rogan.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/254?cb=20170315091955

this...
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/for-honor/images/1/13/Endora.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/295?cb=20170816140406

Tundra 793
01-19-2018, 05:12 AM
Also, most legendary tier weapons look horrific.

This is so much cooler than...

You're absolutely right. I vividly remember hitting Rep 2 or 3 with my Berserker after launch, and seeing many of these basic, lower rep level axe heads had pattern forged patterns in them, and subtle ornaments in the handles. I didn't think there was much of an upgrade past pattern forged weapons. Apparently Gold is the answer to that.

Fans of history and realism will recognize most weapons for all the heroes below Rep 3-4 are actually the truly well made ones.

Spoiler alert; Gold is the ****tiest metal possible to make weapons from.

Jazz117Volkov
01-19-2018, 05:21 AM
You're absolutely right. I vividly remember hitting Rep 2 or 3 with my Berserker after launch, and seeing many of these basic, lower rep level axe heads had pattern forged patterns in them, and subtle ornaments in the handles. I didn't think there was much of an upgrade past pattern forged weapons. Apparently Gold is the answer to that.

Fans of history and realism will recognize most weapons for all the heroes below Rep 3-4 are actually the truly well made ones.

Spoiler alert; Gold is the ****tiest metal possible to make weapons from.
Yep. My Warden is the other side of rep 30. I've completed every weapon at least once, but I still use the Rogan on my main loadout. It actually looks like a functioning sword.

Granted, there's a few of the others that look quite good, even heroic tier, but I'm fairly sure every ultra rare (w/e the star symbol means) look rubbish. It's like carrying a piece of the palace gate (https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/for-honor/images/6/6f/Merodach.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/190?cb=20171203220714) into battle. Do not want.

Tundra 793
01-19-2018, 05:25 AM
I've gone over to using the Frost Wind axe sets for my 'Zerker since they're damn near the only axes not slathered in gold and gems.

While I appreciate the work going into the weapons and armor... How the hell did it take 10 months for someone in the office to go "Hey guys! I just Googled 'silver...'"

There's lots of great looking weapons and armor sets, even in the higher tiers as you say, but why the hell is Gold the be-all-end-all of artistic style in For Honor?

AkenoKobayashi
01-21-2018, 01:53 AM
Even in the trailer, Samurai had wood armor, but also chainmail. Which they never usually wore. As usual, the Knights are pampered with their design. Full metal armor.

Jazz117Volkov
01-21-2018, 04:43 AM
Even in the trailer, Samurai had wood armor, but also chainmail. Which they never usually wore. As usual, the Knights are pampered with their design. Full metal armor.

You realize Knights actually wore steel armour, right?
This isn't something they came up with for the game.

I think they did rather well with the Samurai armour too, mail notwithstanding. Also, every civilization evolves their arms and armour according to their enemies and environment. Knights have historically fought on all kinds of terrain across hundreds of years and multiple civilizations. This caused their equipment and techniques to evolve. In the world of For Honor, it's likely the Samurai would evolve too and be different to their historical counterpart. Adopting something like chain mail is probably the least significant change we would actually see.

It's the Vikings that are truly bizarre. What is going on with Berserker's Zorro mask?


edit: Something else I've noticed is the darker tone of the game art and early build. It was very dull and blue; had an end of days vibe. The release version colours (and all these damnable gold weapons and spiked armour) scream "cheap comicbook merchandise".


This Warlord concept was really cool:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/39/b3/ab/39b3abe89624767f861602cbf9fb5517.png

The in-game version doesn't quite have the super-hero silhouette...for better or worse.

But this guy, lol...I just can't take him seriously. I mean, he has a lot of personality, but he just isn't fierce, he isn't "berserk"...he's a rockstar.
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/for-honor/images/a/ab/BerserkerPortrait.gif/revision/latest?cb=20170406053613

AkenoKobayashi
01-21-2018, 05:22 AM
You realize Knights actually wore steel armour, right?
This isn't something they came up with for the game.

I think they did rather well with the Samurai armour too, mail notwithstanding. Also, every civilization evolves their arms and armour according to their enemies and environment. Knights have historically fought on all kinds of terrain across hundreds of years and multiple civilizations. This caused their equipment and techniques to evolve. In the world of For Honor, it's likely the Samurai would evolve too and be different to their historical counterpart. Adopting something like chain mail is probably the least significant change we would actually see.

Samurai wore steel armor as well.

http://i.imgur.com/q4rdjkQ.jpg

The point I am trying to make is why are the Samurai not making metal (regardless of type) armor despite making metal weapons? Even making parts of their armor using metal. It makes no sense how one faction has multiple types of plate armor, yet the Vikings nor Samurai use metal armor. Would it not make sense to use what metal you could forge into armor as well considering that it has been a 7 year war in the FH universe? All factions have seen the types of weapons used by their opponents during that time, yet only the Knights use full plate armor? The Samurai would have seen that the Knights' metal armor was better than their wooden armor.

Jazz117Volkov
01-21-2018, 05:45 AM
Samurai wore steel armor as well.
I'm not saying there shouldn't at least be metal alternatives for the Samurai armour, but it's not like it would improve their stats.

I think they generally look pretty cool.


The point I am trying to make is why are the Samurai not making metal (regardless of type) armor despite making metal weapons? Even making parts of their armor using metal. It makes no sense how one faction has multiple types of plate armor, yet the Vikings nor Samurai use metal armor. Would it not make sense to use what metal you could forge into armor as well considering that it has been a 7 year war in the FH universe? All factions have seen the types of weapons used by their opponents during that time, yet only the Knights use full plate armor? The Samurai would have seen that the Knights' metal armor was better than their wooden armor.
True, but where do you draw the line? All three factions would realistically adopt the most successful attributes of each until they all became a samey composition of polearms and steel plate. I think the appeal of For Honor is rooted it its fantasy, not its reality.

The Katana, for example, is in part the product of a lack of quality iron. In the For Honor world where the Samurai are no longer in Japan, tradition would be the only reason they'd keep the Katana (not to mention it was never a primary weapon), especially against warriors who's armour is especially resistant to cutting. But its a signature of their faction and likely the reason many people joined them.

As an aside, I think blood decals should be removed from attacks that damage solid armour...looks weird, regardless of the faction.

AkenoKobayashi
01-21-2018, 05:49 AM
In the end, it is purely fantasy. But that doesn't mean it doesn't peeve me out. Shugoki crushes a LB's protected head like a grape. Nothing unusual here.

Jazz117Volkov
01-21-2018, 05:58 AM
^ hah! But it's cool, so w/e.

I still think the most ridiculous is Conq.

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/for-honor/images/0/00/Cqex4.gif/revision/latest?cb=20170306081629

https://m.popkey.co/0ce443/qdRpb.gif

Tundra 793
01-21-2018, 06:29 AM
I think the appeal of For Honor is rooted it its fantasy, not its reality.


This right here, can't be repeated enough.

When we make arguments for "why isn't this faction doing that, why aren't that faction looking like this" we have to look within For Honor's lore, before we look at our own history.
Like Jazz said, historically speaking Katanas were absolute **** swords, because the Japanese didn't have access to good quality iron. A Katana could have snapped in half the second it hit a Viking round shield.
But in For Honor's world, Katanas are just another type of sword, developed alongside the Warlord's blade, or the Warden's sword. So there's parity between them.

This extends to each factions choice of armor. The Samurai in For Honor have settled in a large, marsh and swamp like territory, so it makes sense that wood would be an ideal, and plentiful choice for armors.
In contrast, as semi-confirmed by the lead writer, the Knights, specifically the Lawbringers, have an entire order devoted to the art of making Steel armors.

Hence the disparity between factions choice of armor.

BTTrinity
01-21-2018, 06:41 AM
holy ****e tht first picture, the guy dual wielding daggers is what Zerk should look like... might actually play him if they actually had some time put into a design like that......

Hormly
01-21-2018, 04:04 PM
I still use only the default gear, anything beyond that for warlord looks like solid gold jewel encrusted pimp attire.

Ill stick with my wooden plank shield with a hole in it thank you

bob333e
01-21-2018, 04:25 PM
https://mir-s3-cdn-cf.behance.net/project_modules/max_1200/5c6bdb28553111.55c5ddb106431.jpg
Now here we see the making of what was going to be one of the maps. But now it's gone. Would you like this destroyed keep map?

I think this one is now part of the Sentinel map; or The Shard map; just can't pinpoint whether it is present in the multiplayer version, or only in the campaign version. Do you remember that mission in Samurai chapter, you go with the Nobushi to an abandoned keep that stood guard before the Blackstone Keep? and you raise the alarm and start killing waves? before the part where the Nobushi becomes wounded. It's the Sentinel, and the above concept heavily resembles the section of the map in that mission.

It's either that, or these are rough concepts of Citadel's Gate. Daubeny's keep. Some similarity strikes me also, during the first mission in Knight chapter, before you fight Ademar.

Hormly
01-21-2018, 04:42 PM
You realize Knights actually wore steel armour, right?
This isn't something they came up with for the game.

I think they did rather well with the Samurai armour too, mail notwithstanding. Also, every civilization evolves their arms and armour according to their enemies and environment. Knights have historically fought on all kinds of terrain across hundreds of years and multiple civilizations. This caused their equipment and techniques to evolve. In the world of For Honor, it's likely the Samurai would evolve too and be different to their historical counterpart. Adopting something like chain mail is probably the least significant change we would actually see.

It's the Vikings that are truly bizarre. What is going on with Berserker's Zorro mask?


edit: Something else I've noticed is the darker tone of the game art and early build. It was very dull and blue; had an end of days vibe. The release version colours (and all these damnable gold weapons and spiked armour) scream "cheap comicbook merchandise".


This Warlord concept was really cool:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/39/b3/ab/39b3abe89624767f861602cbf9fb5517.png

The in-game version doesn't quite have the super-hero silhouette...for better or worse.

But this guy, lol...I just can't take him seriously. I mean, he has a lot of personality, but he just isn't fierce, he isn't "berserk"...he's a rockstar.
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/for-honor/images/a/ab/BerserkerPortrait.gif/revision/latest?cb=20170406053613

Always thought the zerker and raider should have swapped names, at least raider fights with some passion.

The zerker has always been a missed opportunity, imo the shaman is now what i always wanted the zerk to be, wild and crazy