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PolishRifle81
01-19-2018, 02:31 AM
Why do shamans still have the fastest lights in the game with a second hit guranteed if 1st hits. Fastest dodge attack that is a heavy not a light. Fastest range attack in the game. A head but which guarantees double light, a heavy if into wall, or used as one of the best throws in game after a GB. An unblockable atack which wan be canceled with a dash attack or gb. Heavys can be fainted into guard break. Wtf cant they do. This is Centurion all over again except shaman makes the original Centurion look like a lol b****

Tundra 793
01-19-2018, 02:35 AM
I agree, she really is a powerhouse with frankly, no really obvious downsides.

And I'm dreading where the game will go during Season 5. I do not support reworking older heroes in order to bring them up to Shaman/Glad/Aramusha/Cent/Shinobi levels, I would much rather see these newer heroes brought down. Fewer, slower attacks, less unblockables etc.

PolishRifle81
01-19-2018, 02:37 AM
Agreed, she is a jack of all trades and master of all

David_gorda
01-19-2018, 02:43 AM
I agree, she really is a powerhouse with frankly, no really obvious downsides.

And I'm dreading where the game will go during Season 5. I do not support reworking older heroes in order to bring them up to Shaman/Glad/Aramusha/Cent/Shinobi levels, I would much rather see these newer heroes brought down. Fewer, slower attacks, less unblockables etc.100% agree. play with and against the og classes is much more fun then the new classes with all their unblockables and cheesy moves and shaman is still op even after nerf.

brashtralas
01-19-2018, 03:20 AM
Whelp, I completely agree with everything in this thread so far. Depressing, really, because I do believe we won’t be winning this one.

I think for honor is headed in a different direction due to management changes and an overall confusion about what the game actually is.

I love the game, but I fear I won’t in a year or even 1/2 a year.

A year. Let’s be real on how fast they’ll get these changes done.

PolishRifle81
01-19-2018, 05:16 AM
It took them 6 months to finally put the centurion where he should be

brashtralas
01-19-2018, 06:21 AM
It took them 6 months to finally put the centurion where he should be

Absolutely..... except he’s not. He’s still annoying and now he’s also junk against good players. The cutscene everyone hates us also a detriment to centurions. With the new characters, they can practically 100-0 him while he’s stuck in the cinematic. Awesome, right?

But that’s beside the point. I agree with you. Now conquerors superior block was removed for his rework... when? Another case of “suffer with this character.... until we get around to it.”

Shaman falls into that category as well. I’m bitter, obviously.

Username9001
01-19-2018, 06:24 AM
one of the main things I hate about shaman is when she has a partner that causes bleed like peacekeeper or nobushi and shaman just stands back to jump and bite you while the other person keeps using bleed

Card1acArrest
01-19-2018, 07:26 AM
it helps to train vs the lvl3 bot for one hour.

also some good guides posted on her weak spots already here.

you can always parry the second light hit! practice it! it is difficult to learn but not hard when mastered. more a mental thing :)

madara_mesh
01-19-2018, 07:32 AM
I think "Assassins should not have guard-disabling attacks" and "Assassin should not have a tackle".
But, you want them to have special personality, the disadvantage should be large if they have that attack.
There are advantages and disadvantages.
As a result, we will understand.
Does Sherman and other new assassins have a balance between merit and demerit now? Many people will say "No".

(Sorry, I can't speak English, so I can't good at using it.)

BTTrinity
01-19-2018, 08:23 AM
they still havent nerfed anything that matters. Her throw distance, guaranteed bash after throw, run speed, some of the most guaranteed damage in the game... shes insane.

Tydeelee
01-19-2018, 08:29 AM
Shaman and Aramusha are gamebreaking NoSkill FunKill Characters

ArchDukeInstinct
01-19-2018, 10:15 AM
Meanwhile Conqueror, a character that has been dead in duels since S1, is getting more significant nerfs these days than Shaman is lol.

MassiveD.
01-19-2018, 10:23 AM
The next hero should just have a gun

BarbeQMichael
01-19-2018, 10:33 AM
Meanwhile Conqueror, a character that has been dead in duels since S1, is getting more significant nerfs these days than Shaman is lol.

On average conq is bad, but when fighting slow heroes, he still rocks 100-0, like against my HL. You can't use heavies against conq because free gb, and he can spam the bash into attack all day long. Eventually you will miss the dodge and eat the damage. Not that it would matter much if you could dodge it, because there is no way to punish him.

ArchDukeInstinct
01-19-2018, 10:58 AM
On average conq is bad, but when fighting slow heroes, he still rocks 100-0, like against my HL. You can't use heavies against conq because free gb, and he can spam the bash into attack all day long. Eventually you will miss the dodge and eat the damage. Not that it would matter much if you could dodge it, because there is no way to punish him.

He lost neutral superior block today so the free gb after heavy block simply no longer exists.

Shield bash is trivial to dodge even on console and spamming guard break is equally unpunishable on reaction but I don't see you complaining about that. To counter either you just throw a light attack in advance of the next one.

Also it's only 12 damage except in the unique case that it is a forward shield bash and he is able to do a side heavy in the direction that you are not guarding. I don't think a couple instances of 12 damage is going to be a killer blow.

Devils-_-legacy
01-19-2018, 12:02 PM
I know it was mistake(was meant to comeinto effect with rework) but jeeze kick a hero when he's down lol

PDXGorechild
01-19-2018, 12:24 PM
I agree, she really is a powerhouse with frankly, no really obvious downsides.

And I'm dreading where the game will go during Season 5. I do not support reworking older heroes in order to bring them up to Shaman/Glad/Aramusha/Cent/Shinobi levels, I would much rather see these newer heroes brought down. Fewer, slower attacks, less unblockables etc.

I think a middle ground is what is needed in truth. A few of the highest tier characters like Shaman need dragging down a bit, whilst some of the OG's need boosting up.

If every character was as good as Shaman the game would become comical, just a giant mash up of everyone going super offensive, throwing flurries of barely react-able attacks, unblockables and stupid gimmicks.


I know it was mistake(was meant to comeinto effect with rework) but jeeze kick a hero when he's down lol

Init! Poor Conq. They could've waited until his rework. My heart goes out to Conq mains, annoying as that mechanic was, they don't have much else.

Knight_Raime
01-19-2018, 12:37 PM
~shamans lights are 500ms. Plenty of other heros have these. Shinobi and orochi also have double guaranteed light string.

~clarify what you consider ranged attacks. At what distance is something considered range attack pls.

~Most bash attacks in the game guarantee an attack. She's got really weak lights damage wise. And it actually depends on the spacing. a headbutt doesn't always give double light.

Centurion was far worse. At least in a team situation.

Knight_Raime
01-19-2018, 12:40 PM
I agree, she really is a powerhouse with frankly, no really obvious downsides.

And I'm dreading where the game will go during Season 5. I do not support reworking older heroes in order to bring them up to Shaman/Glad/Aramusha/Cent/Shinobi levels, I would much rather see these newer heroes brought down. Fewer, slower attacks, less unblockables etc.

Heros who can fight at range really counter her hard.
And if she's not the one putting the pressure on her opponent she's not that great. As in near hugging distance all of her mix ups can be simply ignored with a fast attack.

Unfortunately for you the game doesn't foster a good base to support a slower paced more defensive style game. If the mechanics were actually solid and blocking/defending wasn't stupid easy then maybe. But that's never going to happen.

Alustar.exe
01-19-2018, 12:40 PM
I think a middle ground is what is needed in truth. A few of the highest tier characters like Shaman need dragging down a bit, whilst some of the OG's need boosting up.

If every character was as good as Shaman the game would become comical, just a giant mash up of everyone going super offensive, throwing flurries of barely react-able attacks, unblockables and stupid gimmicks.



Init! Poor Conq. They could've waited until his rework. My heart goes out to Conq mains, annoying as that mechanic was, they don't have much else.
To be fair, I don't feel I rely heavily on light hits or unblockable unless I'm up against a really defensive player. In my opinion her ability to hit and run is far more effective than her lights or unblockables.

Card1acArrest
01-19-2018, 12:51 PM
Just out of curiosity; how many of players do at all block her leap attack when you play Shaman, and how successful are they?

I hardly EVER manage to block those attacks. its really WEIRD. I do not have problems blocking other attacks from any other character in the game. I also do not have problems blocking her attacks when she is up close.

Knight_Raime
01-19-2018, 01:00 PM
Just out of curiosity; how many of players do at all block her leap attack when you play Shaman, and how successful are they?

I hardly EVER manage to block those attacks. its really WEIRD. I do not have problems blocking other attacks from any other character in the game. I also do not have problems blocking her attacks when she is up close.

if I had to ball park a number I'd say 60-70% of the time I block it. (not playing as shaman just blocking her attack in general)
I believe it comes from the right the fastest at 500ms. then left at 600ms. and top at 700ms. So I just rest my guard at the right. and react to other directions.
I have yet to actually parry the wildcats rage though. I don't really think it's the right call anyway to attempt it. as if you have some kind of dodge attack or bash the safer and better option is to just do that if you've got any range on her what so ever.

PDXGorechild
01-19-2018, 01:06 PM
To be fair, I don't feel I rely heavily on light hits or unblockable unless I'm up against a really defensive player. In my opinion her ability to hit and run is far more effective than her lights or unblockables.

Well yeah, technically you could win plenty of fights just jumping in and soft feinting a heavy to light bleed, jump out and and pounce. Most of the cast can't take more than two of these. I don't honestly think she's that bad after the nerfs, her kit is just very viable with a crazy amount of options compared to some others. Not to say that all of those options are better than all other classes options. She's just very diverse which makes her powerful.


Just out of curiosity; how many of players do at all block her leap attack when you play Shaman, and how successful are they?

I hardly EVER manage to block those attacks. its really WEIRD. I do not have problems blocking other attacks from any other character in the game. I also do not have problems blocking her attacks when she is up close.

Spin chop. I rarely get caught by her if i'm paying attention.

Alustar.exe
01-19-2018, 01:35 PM
Just out of curiosity; how many of players do at all block her leap attack when you play Shaman, and how successful are they?

I hardly EVER manage to block those attacks. its really WEIRD. I do not have problems blocking other attacks from any other character in the game. I also do not have problems blocking her attacks when she is up close.

The guy I play against frequently is to the point now that he can block/parry/deflect it consistently. I find the further back I am, the higher chance that hit will not connect true and is either whiffed or countered outright. That in turn has helped me deal with other shaman. if you close range you can quick attack her out of start up from the forward/backward bounce before she attacks(and subsequently any predators variation, for that matter). Then it's a matter of forcing a dodge attack as those are pretty much parry bait if done correctly.
All of this though is going to require you practice timings on those specific moves. (Inb4 another Alu GG post)

I'd like to point out that a lot of her kit is a clever flow from one maneuver to another in a way that she is gong to give factions, then dance around, picking away at you while you fumble to keep up. Don't do that. Learn what moves come after others in their rotation and preempt defenses. It's very easy to fall into a perceptible pattern with her. Predict the pattern, counter, punish.

I'm sitting at a modest rep level 9? So I have enough experience with her to manage her kit to its fullest. I've even gotten better at nailing deflects with her. I'm available for any tips or questions.

RenegadeTX2000
01-19-2018, 01:43 PM
Shaman I can get behind is a little crazy. She reminds me of Seth from Street fighter 4. All the tools... Thing about Seth though is that he has low health and he doesn't regenerate health back... Shaman on the other hand has a higher health pool then other classes and on top of that heals and getting her bleed off is not difficult and when you do land bleed it resets her combo game back to neutral to further mix you up.

The most annoying aspect of her in neutral isn't the jumping attacks or that headbutt thing she does it's her heavy into "time to be on your coffee reaction," Bleed mix up lol. it's like Raiders stunning tap but on steroids. make indicator go up making you think you will be blocking a light attack then take a bleed stab in another direction. That is hands down the most annoying thing I've dealt with in this entire game lol. Also she keeps doing this mix up and sometimes follows through on heavy to feint heavy, to feint another heavy into another bleed stab. Then right before she runs out of stamina she's trying to "World War Z" and hop on you at all cost.

Alustar.exe
01-19-2018, 01:51 PM
Shaman I can get behind is a little crazy. She reminds me of Seth from Street fighter 4. All the tools... Thing about Seth though is that he has low health and he doesn't regenerate health back... Shaman on the other hand has a higher health pool then other classes and on top of that heals and getting her bleed off is not difficult and when you do land bleed it resets her combo game back to neutral to further mix you up.

The most annoying aspect of her in neutral isn't the jumping attacks or that headbutt thing she does it's her heavy into "time to be on your coffee reaction," Bleed mix up lol. it's like Raiders stunning tap but on steroids. make indicator go up making you think you will be blocking a light attack then take a bleed stab in another direction. That is hands down the most annoying thing I've dealt with in this entire game lol. Also she keeps doing this mix up and sometimes follows through on heavy to feint heavy, to feint another heavy into another bleed stab. Then right before she runs out of stamina she's trying to "World War Z" and hop on you at all cost.

It's her heavies(before the first in a chain or following any heavy), and a soft feint zone that leads to bleeds. She cannot bleed you off any light hits.

David_gorda
01-19-2018, 01:56 PM
It's her heavies(before the first in a chain or following any heavy), and a soft feint zone that leads to bleeds. She cannot bleed you off any light hits. lol omg prestige 9 shaman and dont Know you can feint heavy and do a light to apply bleed. Hahahah . Git Gud :D

BarbeQMichael
01-19-2018, 02:16 PM
He lost neutral superior block today so the free gb after heavy block simply no longer exists.

Shield bash is trivial to dodge even on console and spamming guard break is equally unpunishable on reaction but I don't see you complaining about that. To counter either you just throw a light attack in advance of the next one.

Also it's only 12 damage except in the unique case that it is a forward shield bash and he is able to do a side heavy in the direction that you are not guarding. I don't think a couple instances of 12 damage is going to be a killer blow.

Didn't know about this patch, seems fine. Of the shieldbash, it is easy to dodge most of the time, but eventually you will fail it (or worse if you dodge on reaction of his dodge and not actual bash). The thing is, most heroes can easily punish it if they dodge it with dodge attacks or guardbreak and dealing with conq is trivial then, but some heroes can't do either because of recovery times and they are having hard time then.

Alustar.exe
01-19-2018, 02:20 PM
Didn't know about this patch, seems fine. Of the shieldbash, it is easy to dodge most of the time, but eventually you will fail it (or worse if you dodge on reaction of his dodge and not actual bash). The thing is, most heroes can easily punish it if they dodge it with dodge attacks or guardbreak and dealing with conq is trivial then, but some heroes can't do either because of recovery times and they are having hard time then.

I want to know why they needed him to begin with, if his rework is just around the corner..? Not to mention he didn't deserve this. :(

PDXGorechild
01-19-2018, 02:26 PM
I think you've got a friend, Alu. This guy is defo hard for you and stalking your profile to check your posts.

Alustar.exe
01-19-2018, 02:29 PM
I think you've got a friend, Alu. This guy is defo hard for you and stalking your profile to check your posts.

There's at least one where ever I go. Is what I get for having such a sultry, dulcet voice. XD