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tomtheyak
02-22-2006, 03:55 PM
IMHO is beyond a joke.

I have had the misfortune to come up against these aircraft online time and time again and unless I bounce them or have he fortune to run into a noob I get owned every occasion.

I do NOT claim to be the latest incarnation of *insert famous ace* but I generally know what I am doing - I have one of the best 'Hit Air' and until recently one of the best K/D ratios in my squadron.

I have a problem with the G2s PHENOMENAL acceleration - you ever BnZd one in a Seafire or even a Spitfire IX doing 350 - 400mph IAS only to overshoot and have the bugger barrel roll, then as you zoom past, accelerate to your speed catch you in the climb and then nail you? Try it, its a doozy

Or should I point out the ridiculously small turning circle?

With a Spitfire it should be competetitive but the damn thing could stay with a CR42! Repeatedly get run circles around in whatever Spitfire I choose.

If this is historically accurate wouldnt we see far more literature on this? Allied and axis? Surely the Jagdwaffe would have revised their standard approach to engaging Spitfires (hit & dive away) armed with such an agile beast - crikey, why run for home when you can outmanouvre AND out-accelerate and -run your opponent. And why bother making the G6? The G2 can apparently handle itself easily with a variety of late war allied fighters.

Whatever.

tomtheyak
02-22-2006, 03:55 PM
IMHO is beyond a joke.

I have had the misfortune to come up against these aircraft online time and time again and unless I bounce them or have he fortune to run into a noob I get owned every occasion.

I do NOT claim to be the latest incarnation of *insert famous ace* but I generally know what I am doing - I have one of the best 'Hit Air' and until recently one of the best K/D ratios in my squadron.

I have a problem with the G2s PHENOMENAL acceleration - you ever BnZd one in a Seafire or even a Spitfire IX doing 350 - 400mph IAS only to overshoot and have the bugger barrel roll, then as you zoom past, accelerate to your speed catch you in the climb and then nail you? Try it, its a doozy

Or should I point out the ridiculously small turning circle?

With a Spitfire it should be competetitive but the damn thing could stay with a CR42! Repeatedly get run circles around in whatever Spitfire I choose.

If this is historically accurate wouldnt we see far more literature on this? Allied and axis? Surely the Jagdwaffe would have revised their standard approach to engaging Spitfires (hit & dive away) armed with such an agile beast - crikey, why run for home when you can outmanouvre AND out-accelerate and -run your opponent. And why bother making the G6? The G2 can apparently handle itself easily with a variety of late war allied fighters.

Whatever.

JG7_Rall
02-22-2006, 03:58 PM
oh man, this should be awesome....

danjama
02-22-2006, 04:02 PM
wow your data collection is beyond what i thought possible, you should post this over at ORR right now before anymore people suffer at the hands of the uber G2

danjama
02-22-2006, 04:03 PM
by the way i outturned a 109G2 yesterday in a MkV, and it wasnt a noob it was a good friend of mine, go figure...

Low_Flyer_MkVb
02-22-2006, 04:05 PM
IBTK http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

JG52Uther
02-22-2006, 04:10 PM
I hate the G2.There is obviously something wrong when its in '44 servers and people are flying it against late war spit's etc.

tomtheyak
02-22-2006, 04:11 PM
I just came in from an online session (spits vs. 109s) and had to have a rant. Was that hacked off.

OK, my presentation was not the best but if you'll forgive my hot headedness i still believe there is cause for revision here.

No tracks cos i dont usually bother online (my system is avearge and ntrks get a little screwed especially from online recordings) but I'll try a few tests.

My last point still stands though - why would we not see a very different set of Jagdwaffe tactics if the 109 was this agile?

LStarosta
02-22-2006, 04:13 PM
As a Bf109G2 ace, I am fully aware of the performance of the Bf109G2.

Chuck_Older
02-22-2006, 04:14 PM
Tom, part of what you're seeing has always, always, always been in the sim since Il-2. I'm talking about the acceleration.

Even off line, I can close on another plane going faster than me, directly head on towards my plane, then turn 180*...and catch up to him inside a minute, even if he hasn't turned. It's indeed a doozy, and it's not new

In regards to the turning circle...I hate to say this but...are you using your own plane's best turn speed? "More maneuverable than" doesn't have to mean "Smaller turning circle at faster speeds than"

ImpStarDuece
02-22-2006, 04:16 PM
I think someone needs to look up "Jumoschwanzing":


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Jumoschwanzing

Xiolablu3
02-22-2006, 04:20 PM
I never got out turned by a 109 in a Spitfire unless I have done something really stupid.

You must be doing something wrong

The 109G2 turns better than the other G's because it has lighter armament and retractable tail wheel, its a pure fighter 109.

Maybe the 109F4 should be able to turn a little better, but I don t know this for sure.

There is no way it outurns any Spitfire in this game tho.

Scen
02-22-2006, 04:25 PM
Now you know what it's like to fight a 25+ Spit in a D9...

Welcome to the show

Scen
02-22-2006, 04:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I never got out turned by a 109 in a Spitfire unless I have done something really stupid.

You must be doing something wrong

The 109G2 turns better than the other G's because it has lighter armament and retractable tail wheel, its a pure fighter 109.

Maybe the 109F4 should be able to turn a little better, but I don t know this for sure.

There is no way it outurns any Spitfire in this game tho. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You won't out turn a Spit V

tomtheyak
02-22-2006, 04:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
I think someone needs to look up "Jumoschwanzing":


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Jumoschwanzing </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif fair enough! LOL!

Hey, just rather tactlessly pointing out an issue I currently have. Admittedly I have no evidence, but then neither do i tend to enter a pub arguement with armfuls of research i just happened to have done on the particular topic of conversation.

Just wanted to get it off my chest and see if it was just me.

@Chuck - roger that mate, I know turn rate and turn circle are two very different but very bound issues. its probably not helped by my 'percieved' uber-accel. of the G2.

VW-IceFire
02-22-2006, 04:34 PM
The G-2 is an odd bird...it seems to have lots of extra available engine power for its weight which makes it easily the best 109 of the bunch in all respects.

Brain32
02-22-2006, 04:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> IBTK http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
In Before The Kurfurst? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BTW anybody that gets outturned in a Spit by a G2 needs some help or revision of joystick settings...

Monty_Thrud
02-22-2006, 05:03 PM
tomtheyak... Well your not on your own with this G2, i'm in the same boat as you, i cant outturn this in a MkIX Spitfire and i havent read anywhere about the new wonder 109 outurning Spits...still its a great game http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

OMK_Hand
02-22-2006, 05:20 PM
For what it's worth, in my experience it's a pilot thing.
Some I can catch by suprise and knock them down if I'm lucky.

Some are just really, really good...

I can't fight in the thing at all.

danjama
02-22-2006, 05:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtheyak:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
I think someone needs to look up "Jumoschwanzing":


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Jumoschwanzing </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif fair enough! LOL!

Hey, just rather tactlessly pointing out an issue I currently have. Admittedly I have no evidence, but then neither do i tend to enter a pub arguement with armfuls of research i just happened to have done on the particular topic of conversation.

Just wanted to get it off my chest and see if it was just me.

@Chuck - roger that mate, I know turn rate and turn circle are two very different but very bound issues. its probably not helped by my 'percieved' uber-accel. of the G2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i must admit i like your attitude and honesty with regards to approching the issue, it reminds me of myself and the same thing id do http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

F19_Ob
02-22-2006, 05:37 PM
It sucks too lose against a 109G2 in the spit, doesn't it? (been there , done that)
Many lost fights in the spit can be atributed to its vichious snapstall at slows speeds at the deck, wich gave the 109 the upper hand.

I've lost and won many fights in both planes and what I see is the thing that makes the 109 win so many fights is not that it turns better in some situations, it is its forgiveness in all stages of flight and simplest possible stall to recover from , whereas the spitfire is harder to control at slow speeds when the 109 can just point up its nose and climb, even at 160-170 kph where the spit has enormous trouble not stalling.
Therefore the spit requires a bit more skill to fly well. U can't pull hard like in the 109 can in some situations and the 109 can do just that although it nescessarily doesn't outturn the spit.
The trick is to get the spit to snapstall wich takes longer to recover from compared to the 109.

With this said the spit is no easy match in a clean turnfight where its 2 cannons and mg's has greater hittingpower.
Therefore all fights against spits should be in the vertical, with loops and such, where the 109 is very simple to fly close to stall and the spit a handfull.

the 109G2 has tremendous climb and can point its nose almost straight up after takeoff and gain impressive height.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TX-Zen
02-22-2006, 05:42 PM
I never ever thought I'd see the day when someone said "therefore the spit takes a bit more skill to fly well"



Wow!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

F19_Ob
02-22-2006, 05:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TX-Zen:
I never ever thought I'd see the day when someone said "therefore the spit takes a bit more skill to fly well"



Wow!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LoL
I can easily say such things because I don't participate in any 'sides' like axis or allied flyer.
I fly every type and enjoy the game. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

With my remark i din't mean that 'no' skill is needed for it. I just ment the 109G2's handling are simpler when flying at steep angles at slow speeds and pulling hard when doing that.
That is much harder in a spit, so therefore a smart 109 driver takes advantage of that vice in the spit.

This is the reason why' a bit' more skill is needed in the spit, as I see things.
---------------------------------------

It is also very easy to find out for sure by doing the 'climb very steeply at 160kph from takeoff'.
U will see that the spit really isn't up for the job.

Feel free to try http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

danjama
02-22-2006, 05:58 PM
La7's and BF109 up to G6 are much easier to fly and be succesful than any spitfire, perhaps excepting the 25lb version

Badsight.
02-22-2006, 10:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tomtheyak:
I have a problem with the G2s PHENOMENAL acceleration - you ever BnZd one in a Seafire or even a Spitfire IX doing 350 - 400mph IAS only to overshoot and have the bugger barrel roll, then as you zoom past, accelerate to your speed catch you in the climb and then nail you? Try it, its a doozy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>thats not possible , its BS ranting from annoyance with losing

being in =(your favourite plane)= does not automatically give you complete domination , & only *******'s think it does

no Bf-109 in FB can out-turn Co-E Spits in this game , & no plane can do that load of BS you just described up there

E-Fighting is the pinnacle of aerial combat , & my favourite type of fight - i know how hard it is to maintain speed & momentum properly when your trying to drain it from a bandit & seeing utter BS as quoted above is annoying

Bf-109s are stable - not better turning

jumoschwanzing like this is what has given UBI its reputation in the CFS community

HellToupee
02-22-2006, 10:27 PM
the spit does turn better but it cannot manover like the g2 does at low speed, it can go from stall speed turn to verticle where spit would just snap and spin trying that. But if you keep speeds fairly high ull easly outturn it, best way to fight is a loop with plently of speed, it keeps ur speed up especially at the bottom of each loop and wont leave u low and slow like a horizontal turn where the g2 has advantage. G2s are slower than the mk9 really only a threat when pared with faster planes that force you defensive.

HayateAce
02-22-2006, 10:33 PM
Now some folks are starting to see the light....one by one. Maybe before the last patch, the G2 Joke will be made right. The thing has power characteristics of a VTOL.

http://www.bibleetnombres.online.fr/image2/hitleufo.jpg

Badsight.
02-22-2006, 10:37 PM
Q : How do you know when the Thread is completely Bullsh!t ?

A : When HayateTard shows up

bolillo_loco
02-22-2006, 10:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
I think someone needs to look up "Jumoschwanzing":


http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Jumoschwanzing </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is this real? I guess it is I just looked up my name. I owe Jumoschwanze an appology because I thought his name meant something else.

Ok, time to hijack this thread, here is what my name means, whats yours?

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bolillo

Stafroty
02-23-2006, 12:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
The G-2 is an odd bird...it seems to have lots of extra available engine power for its weight which makes it easily the best 109 of the bunch in all respects. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

in all respects?? ok, if you say so TnB jock. last nite, i didnt have problems to kill 109G2 with FWA-6, and boy he wanted to kill me. he didnt. TmB:n amount is in direct connection with stupidy.

StellarRat
02-23-2006, 12:42 AM
G2's are slow. If you have a faster plane there is no excuse for getting shot down by a G2. Just B and Z them to death.

Stafroty
02-23-2006, 12:51 AM
yea. but thats no "fair way" isnt it? =)

x__CRASH__x
02-23-2006, 01:03 AM
Threads like this have about as much usefullness as having a thread in here about tuperware.

No one gives a sh|t to the foundless accusations of some guy who got bettered. I don't care what plane you are talking about.

HelSqnProtos
02-23-2006, 01:19 AM
S~!

Nothing baseless or foundless about them, which is what really terrifies the lw boys. Cause lord knows if Oleg fixes it you guys will be crying the blues hard. Or I guess a 1600hp bird should have the torque of a ww1 biplane? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Pay no heed to the blue brigade Tom this is GD and you can pretty much say what you like here. You are not under any obligations to provide proof to anyone here. I was flying a G2 last night in an inter sqn training session.

Incredibly smooth, no torque, never stalled it once. Can hang with a spit in almost any kind of fight - especially if you pump in the flaps. Like you say great acceleration ect......

But to hear everyone who is knocking you -- the bf is a difficult bird to master http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


Big +1 to what TxZen said as well.
Never thought I would see the day when people said it takes more skill to fly a spit than a bf.

JG54_Arnie
02-23-2006, 01:22 AM
I always found the 109 an incredibly annoying bugger, except when you fly it yourself. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

alert_1
02-23-2006, 01:40 AM
________________________________________________
I have had the misfortune to come up against these aircraft online time and time again and unless I bounce them or have he fortune to run into a noob I get owned every occasion.
_______________________________________________
I have the same problem with Spits and BTW what does it prove? That youare as much noobish as me? Or something else? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Pinker15
02-23-2006, 02:46 AM
Problem with G2 is that bird has too good turn rate (better than 109F4) and can climb-Hold at ridicoulus sharp angles on extremally low speed (150kmph). With easy control it makes of G2 first league of noob planes. Hopelesly Spit IX is still better dogfighter but U need use proper tactic against this monster. Do not slow down or use flaps. And do not do any scissors stuff. Let G2 bleed hes E in manovers and shoot down later.

Pinker15
02-23-2006, 03:01 AM
Funny is that in real at low speed spit was easier to controll than 109 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. Someone said that T&B is pure stupidity. Its wrong thinking because tactic what U use depends on what plane U have, yours opponent and what is tactical situation at the beginning. Ofcourse U cant do T&B on Fw 190 against spitfire but when we have FW190 vs P51 on equal beginning conditions U are foced to do maneuver fight. Try do B&Z than and U are tosted.

Abbuzze
02-23-2006, 03:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
The G-2 is an odd bird...it seems to have lots of extra available engine power for its weight which makes it easily the best 109 of the bunch in all respects. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A few words about the 109 G2 and also to the other versions.

The G2 don´t have any extra engine power, but as nearly all 109 it has a VERY good power to weight ratio, thats what you feeling. If you get slow you can accelerate better than most other planes horizontal and in a climb. Check the figures of a Spit and of the 109!

It´s easy to explain when a 109 is outturning a Spit. Usually after a few moves I know, if the Spit pilot will allow to outturn him.

-Spitfires have low wingload, so much less e-bleeding, if I pull hard now, the higer wingload and higher angle of attack slows down my plane more than the spit, resulting a lower speed, resulting a thighter turning radius (at least for a short time) so the spitfire pilot who believed in his advantage is doomed. (very often http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

- If the spitfire pilot gets very slow he has the problem of the worse powerload, I can accelerate faster and have energy to burn in tight turns, while he remaind turning slow and tight, I have the opportunity to starting to fly Yo-Yo´s, because of my better powerload, and can outturn him for a short time again before I burn my energy again, flying the next Yo-Yo.
Thats also the cause why late spits in this sim are much more dangerous, they have a better powerloading!

This is no miracle, just physics. It´s not the plane - it´s the pilot!

And why are the G2 are very good even in 1944 server? Because nearly all pilots fly Turn and Burn! It´s one of the best turning 109´s so their use it advantages compared to other 109´s with worse turning rate.

Beside, sitting in a P51 I have no trouble to fight any 109 except the K4. A good pilot in a P51 do the same versus me from G2-G10.

jasonbirder
02-23-2006, 03:26 AM
Don't shout me down...but I thought that (historically) these models of the 109 were better turners at slow speeds than the spit and the spit was better at higher speeds...
Thats only from reading anecdotal reports so if thats not right i'll happily take that on the chin without reference to tracks, graphs, tables etc...

HayateAce
02-23-2006, 03:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pinker15:
Problem with G2 is that bird has too good turn rate (better than 109F4) and can climb-Hold at ridicoulus sharp angles on extremally low speed (150kmph). With easy control it makes of G2 first league of noob planes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif


Man if they ever do fix the G2FO, lotta noobs will be hunting new rides.

"If I had a squadron of G2s, I could RULzz0Rs the world!"
http://www.alienresistance.org/naziufo.jpg

GR142-Pipper
02-23-2006, 03:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abbuzze:
[quote]This is no miracle, just physics. It´s not the plane - it´s the pilot! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Nah, it isnt's physics...it's Oleg-land programming.

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:KhWcj-xw-nOjmM:jimelwell.org/images/elwell1.jpg

HayateAce
02-23-2006, 03:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight.:
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Q: How do you know when BadFlight joins an online server?

A: My score goes up!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

GR142-Pipper
02-23-2006, 03:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HayateAce:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight.:
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Q: How do you know when BadFlight joins an online server?

A: My score goes up!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Everyone's does. This is what happens when the opposition sees Badweenie join the server...
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:q8vGLz4s_QmtwM:http://www.bcconsultants.co.uk/news/images/people_cheering.jpg http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Badsight.
02-23-2006, 03:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HayateAce:
A: My score goes up! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>please , you couldnt fight your way out of a paper bag - your not even the best P-51 user ive shot down - thats right moron , you think i fly as Badsight anymore ? oh Snap!

why dont we see Astro post anymore

why does Pipper pop up in HayateTard threads & why does HayateTard pop up after Pipper has done whining ?

why is it that Pipper cant take reality that he isnt that great & people can wipe him all over the floor ?

its almost not worth shooting Pipper down when you have to endure 20 minutes of excuses that elevate into crying

if HayateTard was in my squad - i would break the whole thing up & start anew considering how full of s**t he is (yes you have been a troll from your very first post)

Tom the Yak was just getting some frustration off his chest - the real tards are the ones that jump to defend his complete lack of evidence or testing as if its the truth

this is the sort load their lack of game knowledge responds too

GR142-Pipper
02-23-2006, 03:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight.:
why dont we see Astro post anymore

why does Pipper pop up in HayateTard threads & why does HayateTard pop up after Pipper has done whining ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Why don't you go learn something instead of being your usual imbecilic self?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">why is it that Pipper cant take reality that he isnt that great & people can wipe him all over the floor ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Nah, but we did get a shot of you the last time you showed up on the server though. No wonder you changed your name.
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:JKGZHaT8Ox0hXM:www.owned.com/Owned_Pictures/boxinghangedowned.jpg

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">its almost not worth shooting Pipper down when you have to endure 20 minutes of excuses that elevate into crying </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well don't you worry your pretty curls over it because it's something you've never done.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">if HayateTard was in my squad - i would break the whole thing up & start anew considering how full of s**t he is (yes you have been a troll from your very first post) </div></BLOCKQUOTE> You mean like the squad below that you're in now? Your flight burka is so "you".
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:lYtbaKoPj1zosM:www.vhs-oe.de/Images/politik/burka.jpg

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Tom the Yak was just getting some frustration off his chest - the real tards are the ones that jump to defend his complete lack of evidence or testing as if its the truth

this is the sort load their lack of game knowledge responds too </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You need to take a break and give your ego a rest. You're just too easy.

GR142-Pipper

alert_1
02-23-2006, 03:49 AM
_______________________________________________
A few words about the 109 G2 and also to the other versions.

The G2 don´t have any extra engine power, but as nearly all 109 it has a VERY good power to weight ratio, thats what you feeling. If you get slow you can accelerate better than most other planes horizontal and in a climb. Check the figures of a Spit and of the 109!

It´s easy to explain when a 109 is outturning a Spit. Usually after a few moves I know, if the Spit pilot will allow to outturn him.

-Spitfires have low wingload, so much less e-bleeding, if I pull hard now, the higer wingload and higher angle of attack slows down my plane more than the spit, resulting a lower speed, resulting a thighter turning radius (at least for a short time) so the spitfire pilot who believed in his advantage is doomed. (very often )

- If the spitfire pilot gets very slow he has the problem of the worse powerload, I can accelerate faster and have energy to burn in tight turns, while he remaind turning slow and tight, I have the opportunity to starting to fly Yo-Yo´s, because of my better powerload, and can outturn him for a short time again before I burn my energy again, flying the next Yo-Yo.
Thats also the cause why late spits in this sim are much more dangerous, they have a better powerloading!

This is no miracle, just physics. It´s not the plane - it´s the pilot!

And why are the G2 are very good even in 1944 server? Because nearly all pilots fly Turn and Burn! It´s one of the best turning 109´s so their use it advantages compared to other 109´s with worse turning rate.

Beside, sitting in a P51 I have no trouble to fight any 109 except the K4. A good pilot in a P51 do the same versus me from G2-G10.

I./JG53 PikAs Abbuzze
http://www.jg53-pikas.de/
______________________________________________

Very well said, explaining a lot http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Xiolablu3
02-23-2006, 04:00 AM
Good post Alert 1, but what that works both ways. While the 109 is slowing down and turning a little tighter at first, the Spit is keeping his energy better because of his lower wing loading. This means that although the 109G MAY be able to outturn him initialy, he is burning more energy to perform those turns. And once those slats pop out he is going to be burning E like nothing and the Spit will have the advantage.

The Spit keeps its energy far better in the turn then the 109.

Another point which may help...


You guys who are getting outturned by a 109G2 in a Spit, do you have Force Feedback?

FF enables you to turn much tighter as you can 'ride' the stall, and feel much more when its about to stall.

I know that when I had a non FF joystick , I had all sorts of problems trying to turn, not knowing how far I could push it.

If you dont have a FF joystixck then GETH ONE. The are really cheap, especially if you have a gameport. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Kernow
02-23-2006, 04:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jasonbirder:
Don't shout me down...but I thought that (historically) these models of the 109 were better turners at slow speeds than the spit and the spit was better at higher speeds...
Thats only from reading anecdotal reports so if thats not right i'll happily take that on the chin without reference to tracks, graphs, tables etc... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're probably right. Although IL2C hasn't been updated (and won't be) it shows this well. The last version of IL2C was for PF 3.02. I don't think the Spit FM has changed since then, but, of course, 109s are 'more manoeuvrable' since 4.03.

Looking at the turn graph you can see the Spit V outturns the G2 at lo-med speeds. The LF.Vb also has a better turn in general, but at low speed - where the 109 can deploy flap, but the Spit can't - the G2 is a bit better. The situation is similar for the Spit VIII & IX versions, although the Spit's advantage at med-hi speed is less.

If 'more manoeuvrable' means better turn (I assume it does) then the G2's best turn is probably now very close to the Spit LF.Vb(cw), VIII & IX, but occurs at a lower speed (assuming corner velocity hasn't changed as well). Even the later Spits will still outturn the G2 at their corner velocity or greater speeds (200+ mph IAS). Of course, any aircraft can turn faster for a while if they have E to burn.

The general rule for sustained turn rate is the Spit is usually better - or at least no worse - than the G2, provided he keeps the speed up (200+). At lower speeds the ability to use combat flap gives the 109 an advantage - except over the Vb which has a much lower corner velocity, ~160 mph, and is optimized for low speed turning. (There are obviously no graphs for the Spit Vc and +25 lb Spit.)

Xiolablu3
02-23-2006, 04:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jasonbirder:
Don't shout me down...but I thought that (historically) these models of the 109 were better turners at slow speeds than the spit and the spit was better at higher speeds...
Thats only from reading anecdotal reports so if thats not right i'll happily take that on the chin without reference to tracks, graphs, tables etc... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Spitfire is just a better turner in General, it has a lower wing loading , just look at the difference in the size of the wings when you look at a profile.

109 has smaller wings which are better for high speed and climb but not so good for turning, manouvrability.

Spitfire has big wings which are not so good for high speed but hold E much better in the turn and enables it to turn better overall.

The Slats on the 109 enable it to turn tight at slow speeds initially, but they also create a lot of drag and so the 109 will only have the advantage for the first 1 or 2 turns once these come out, then he will slow down so much he wont be able to turn without stalling.

If you can keep the 109 turning then the SPitfire will come out on top, IF he is outturning you, he will only be able to for the first part of the fight and will soon lose his energy. Keep him in a prolonged turnfight and the Spitfire will come out on top.

HayateAce
02-23-2006, 04:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight.:touchy nerve ending words
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Apologize to BedWipe. I know this sort of feeling hit your nerves. I not fly on American server but Russian only. I meet oppose player as you, my scoring is too high. You know, this embarassing and so on.

I speak to your mother yesterday and she tell me not only is your sight bad, but your hearing is going as well? I am sorry my old friend. Do you still wear the hearing aid?

http://www.iranian.com/Anyway/2003/September/Images/ear.jpg

AndyHigh
02-23-2006, 04:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pinker15:
Problem with G2 is that bird has too good turn rate (better than 109F4) and can climb-Hold at ridicoulus sharp angles on extremally low speed </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So can you tell what's wrong with the latter? If it could do it in real life (keep 60 degree angle at 140kph at max power) then why not in the game?

AustinPowers_
02-23-2006, 04:48 AM
This thread is a joke.
The Spit IX is twice the fighter the G2 is.

btw. nice Olegish accent Hayatenub suddenly adopted.

JG5_UnKle
02-23-2006, 05:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AustinPowers_:
This thread is a joke.
The Spit IX is twice the fighter the G2 is.

btw. nice Olegish accent Hayatenub suddenly adopted. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree 100%

I love to swap planes with an enemy after a fight; regardless of outcome - whiners are recommended to do the same http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif.

anarchy52
02-23-2006, 05:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AustinPowers_:
This thread is a joke.
The Spit IX is twice the fighter the G2 is.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Except 25lbs. 25 pounder can only be brought down in close cooperation of several opponents, bounced or Spit pilot must make several cardinal mistakes. I had a very successful session last nigh with G2 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Against a competent opponent I'd probably get nailed pretty quickly. Simply said anything you can do, spit can do better.

On the G2 itself, it's reasonably accurate according to Finnish and Russian test flight data, although slightly slower. Later G series should behave more like G2 as the difference between say G6 and G2 isn't that big.

Abbuzze
02-23-2006, 05:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abbuzze:
[quote]This is no miracle, just physics. It´s not the plane - it´s the pilot! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Nah, it isnt's physics...it's Oleg-land programming.

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:KhWcj-xw-nOjmM:jimelwell.org/images/elwell1.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So if I made a logical mistake in my, I have to admit assumption, please proof me wrong, or show me my logical mistake instead to whine about Olegs programm code!

Here they are:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
-Spitfires have low wingload, so much less e-bleeding, if I pull hard now, the higer wingload and higher angle of attack slows down my plane more than the spit, resulting a lower speed, resulting a thighter turning radius (at least for a short time) so the spitfire pilot who believed in his advantage is doomed. (very often )

- If the spitfire pilot gets very slow he has the problem of the worse powerload, I can accelerate faster and have energy to burn in tight turns, while he remaind turning slow and tight, I have the opportunity to starting to fly Yo-Yo´s, because of my better powerload, and can outturn him for a short time again before I burn my energy again, flying the next Yo-Yo.
Thats also the cause why late spits in this sim are much more dangerous, they have a better powerloading!

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

dadada1
02-23-2006, 05:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">if HayateTard was in my squad - i would break the whole thing up & start anew considering how full of s**t he is (yes you have been a troll from your very first post) </div></BLOCKQUOTE> You mean like the squad below that you're in now? Your flight burka is so "you".
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:lYtbaKoPj1zosM:www.vhs-oe.de/Images/politik/burka.jpg

I dont usually resort to these kind of posts but I have to ask, do you own a banjo by any chance Pipper?

Lazy312
02-23-2006, 05:53 AM
Did anyone notice that G2 now also flies faster too?

Xiolablu3
02-23-2006, 06:22 AM
I wish all these people who whine about Olegs programming would just make a better game themselves.

I dont think they realise what an incredible acheivement this sim is.


Its like the guy who sits in the chair and shouts at the television when a world class footballer misses a goal. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif ('I could do better than that' sure you could)

Pinker15
02-23-2006, 06:27 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Pinker15:
Problem with G2 is that bird has too good turn rate (better than 109F4) and can climb-Hold at ridicoulus sharp angles on extremally low speed


So can you tell what's wrong with the latter? If it could do it in real life (keep 60 degree angle at 140kph at max power) then why not in the game?
------------------------------------------------
I dont think that G2 could do that in real like can here in game esspecially when landing speed in real was for about 155 kmph in real. Btw I checked this again and with 25% fuel I was able hold climb at 110-120 kmph with still full control over plane. That is bull****. And why turn better than lighter F4 ? Everybody knows that G2 was worse turner than F4.

JG7_Rall
02-23-2006, 08:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I wish all these people who whine about Olegs programming would just make a better game themselves.

I dont think they realise what an incredible acheivement this sim is.


Its like the guy who sits in the chair and shouts at the television when a world class footballer misses a goal. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif ('I could do better than that' sure you could) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Stafroty
02-23-2006, 09:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG7_Rall:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I wish all these people who whine about Olegs programming would just make a better game themselves.

I dont think they realise what an incredible acheivement this sim is.


Its like the guy who sits in the chair and shouts at the television when a world class footballer misses a goal. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif ('I could do better than that' sure you could) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

i agree, even if i do complain about something in it.

AndyHigh
02-23-2006, 10:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pinker15:
I dont think that G2 could do that in real like can here in game esspecially when landing speed in real was for about 155 kmph in real. Btw I checked </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But it was very well possible, as was noticed in a test flight of G2 with full combat configuration. Why you don't trust opinions of experienced test pilots? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif