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Objektskaya
03-23-2008, 07:46 PM
I only recently started playing the IL-2 family of games, in the guise of the "1946" collection.

I've updated it to version 4.08m and plan to install the 4.09 beta soon. However, the problem I'm having doesn't seem to be related to the version, as it was happening with 4.07 as well.

So far it's only happened in one specific mission, the one I get if I select Single Missions, and choose the latest version of the Il-2. This starts me with a bombing mission in really lousy weather: rain, low clouds, thunder, and a muddy-looking runway.

The problem is, I cannot control the IL-2 on the ground. While I am aware that one must compensate for engine torque with a little opposite rudder during the takeoff roll, I can't even get that far. Before I so much as start the engine, my IL-2 begins turning. Applying the brakes stops this, but of course I cannot take off with the brakes applied!

If I let the mysterious turning continue, I end up pointed almost backwards. With the engine running, the aircraft remains impossible to control, and I still cannot take off. Applying low power, medium power, or high power, the aircraft turns one way or the other uncontrollably. I soon run off the runway, and eventually crash into something. Locking or unlocking the tailwheel has no effect.

What's going on here? Is this a bug, or is there a super-secret taxi technique not documented in the manual? In other missions, I've had no trouble controlling the IL-2 (and other aircraft) on the ground.

Objektskaya
03-23-2008, 07:46 PM
I only recently started playing the IL-2 family of games, in the guise of the "1946" collection.

I've updated it to version 4.08m and plan to install the 4.09 beta soon. However, the problem I'm having doesn't seem to be related to the version, as it was happening with 4.07 as well.

So far it's only happened in one specific mission, the one I get if I select Single Missions, and choose the latest version of the Il-2. This starts me with a bombing mission in really lousy weather: rain, low clouds, thunder, and a muddy-looking runway.

The problem is, I cannot control the IL-2 on the ground. While I am aware that one must compensate for engine torque with a little opposite rudder during the takeoff roll, I can't even get that far. Before I so much as start the engine, my IL-2 begins turning. Applying the brakes stops this, but of course I cannot take off with the brakes applied!

If I let the mysterious turning continue, I end up pointed almost backwards. With the engine running, the aircraft remains impossible to control, and I still cannot take off. Applying low power, medium power, or high power, the aircraft turns one way or the other uncontrollably. I soon run off the runway, and eventually crash into something. Locking or unlocking the tailwheel has no effect.

What's going on here? Is this a bug, or is there a super-secret taxi technique not documented in the manual? In other missions, I've had no trouble controlling the IL-2 (and other aircraft) on the ground.

ffb
03-23-2008, 08:37 PM
some a/c behave very badly when the weather is set to rainy/windy...

best to press A and let the AI take-off for you...then change back to your control once the a/c is stable

Zeus-cat
03-23-2008, 08:40 PM
You are in a storm. This is not modelled well in the game in my opinion. The only thing you can do is hit the brakes hard as soon as the mission starts and keep them on.

Put your brakes on full.
Start your engine.
Keep your brakes on full.
Throttle up until you start moving.
Keep your brakes on full.
Lock your tail wheel.
Throttle up a little more.
Use your rudder if needed to keep you straight.
Keep your brakes on full.
Once you get to 30 or 40 mph the wind effect disappears and you can release the brakes and throttle up to 110% for takeoff.

brewens
03-23-2008, 09:41 PM
Yeah, that kept happening to me. I managed to get in the air a few times by just gunning it in the direction it wanted to take me. Bouncing accross the fields!
Zues-Cat. Thanks for the tip, especially locking the tail wheel.
We probably need to do that every takeoff after taxiing don't we?

steiner562
03-23-2008, 09:49 PM
Lock the tail wheel

Skycat_2
03-23-2008, 10:05 PM
Most of the time you can take off in planes without locking the tail wheel, assuming the weather is good. In reality I think you'd have to do it for most or all of the aircraft as part of the takeoff procedure.

Just the other night I struggled at take-off in the second mission of the new IL-2 campaign that comes with 1946. The weather wasn't bad, just misty. I couldn't keep my plane in a straight line to save my life even with the tailwheel locked. I finally gave up and used the autopilot to get me in the air. (I flew the first mission of the campaign over a month ago so I don't remember now if I was able to take off on my own or if I needed the computer's assistment.)

DKoor
03-24-2008, 01:24 AM
The worse weather in IL2 is scary. I really doubt they took off regularly under such conditions anyway. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Nicholaiovitch
03-24-2008, 04:29 AM
This is an interesting topic as I spent a lot of time constructing a mission within my recently posted "offline Campaign- Z Force Singapore 1941- At M4T" featuring the worst weather available in IL-2, but in addition added this to a night mission with a requirement to taxi to the runway! Very challenging in a "Seafire" that will nose-over with more than about 45% power.
Different a/c will react in a slightly different way, but it is fair to say that all tailwheel a/c will "weathercock" into a strong wind unless chocks are in, or as has been already said, you stop the reaction by applying the brakes.
After starting, the posts already explain that once you have got your machine pointing in the correct direction using bursts of power, rudder and brake input, lock the tail and slowly apply power as you correct any swing with rudder.
There is an old British expression "like a one armed paper hanger" that describes well the combined inputs necessary and the distorted facial grimacing that follows!
In my early aviation career I several times saw DC3's being towed to the threshold of the runway at the Channel Island of Jersey because they were unable to taxi in the high winds. When pointing in the correct direction down the runway, a mixture of tailwheel lock, assymetric power and "pudding stirring" enabled the beast to get airboprne.
Don't underestimate the difficulty in these conditions, whether in IL2 or in real flying, and as has already been said, probably better to retire to the pub and wait for the weather to clear!
Have fun.

Taylortony
03-24-2008, 09:08 AM
Try it in real life on the ground, It is Sh+t scarey in strong winds, I taxied a big twin out to do a run and the wind was not that bad till I got clear of the lee of the hangar, bloody thing lifted off on one main gear, even with opposite aileron applied and scared the poo out of me.

Once it sat back down on all 3 gears I had to do some seriously bad manouevering and some major throttle and prop juggling to turn it around crosswind and get me and it back into the lee of the Hangar the right way up........

A sort of an "I learn't from that" episode.....

JG52MadAdler
03-24-2008, 11:40 AM
Brake + Rudder + Throttle
Just keep it on the runway until you get up some speed. Then it will settle down.
Takes some practice.

roybaty
03-24-2008, 11:54 AM
Never got too much flying experience (too much cash for a hobby http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif ) but I recall one lesson. I showed up at the airport and saw my IP standing outside staring at the horizontal windsock. Simple conversation:

Me: I'm guessing we aren't going up today?
IP: I'm thinking your right, I don't want you to kill us.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Taylortony:
Try it in real life on the ground, It is Sh+t scarey in strong winds, I taxied a big twin out to do a run and the wind was not that bad till I got clear of the lee of the hangar, bloody thing lifted off on one main gear, even with opposite aileron applied and scared the poo out of me.

Once it sat back down on all 3 gears I had to do some seriously bad manouevering and some major throttle and prop juggling to turn it around crosswind and get me and it back into the lee of the Hangar the right way up........

A sort of an "I learn't from that" episode..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

buzzsaw1939
03-24-2008, 11:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Taylortony:
Try it in real life on the ground, It is Sh+t scarey in strong winds, I taxied a big twin out to do a run and the wind was not that bad till I got clear of the lee of the hangar, bloody thing lifted off on one main gear, even with opposite aileron applied and scared the poo out of

Once it sat back down on all 3 gears I had to do some seriously bad manouevering and some major throttle and prop juggling to turn it around crosswind and get me and it back into the lee of the Hangar the right way up........

A sort of an "I learn't from that" episode..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for bringing back some memories! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BWaltteri
03-25-2008, 10:17 AM
It's ridiculous, especially if you're flying a two engined plane. You can still however take off even if your nose points at Nevada even if it's daft.

Basically you can press the brake but better just to hit 'a' to save your keyboards.

mortoma
03-25-2008, 11:07 AM
One problem I have with the severe weather scenarios is whether or not it's realistic to have a flight of planes take off in weather like that in the first place. In the WWII, there were plenty of instances where flights were grounded/scrubbed during sever weather.

I think that strength of wind would exceed the crosswind component of everything except extremely large aircraft.

Aaron_GT
03-25-2008, 11:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Lock your tail wheel. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is critical!

mortoma
03-25-2008, 11:16 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by roybaty:
Never got too much flying experience (too much cash for a hobby http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif ) but I recall one lesson. I showed up at the airport and saw my IP standing outside staring at the horizontal windsock. Simple conversation:

Me: I'm guessing we aren't going up today?
IP: I'm thinking your right, I don't want you to kill us.[QUOTE]


This is exactly the type of weather my flight instructor would practically wait for to give me a lesson!! His idea was if you could learn to fly in weather like that, you could fly in anything. We went out on a day like that with winds gusting from the south at 17 to 24 knots.
He made me fly about 20 touch and goes that day on a runway at Frankfort, Indiana that was 90/270. And he made me land with various flap deployments and no flaps at all. To this very day I am glad I was flying the Cherokee 180 and not the Cessna 172 or the Cessna 152!!! Those low wing planes do a better job with landing in winds like that.

Aaron_GT
03-25-2008, 01:04 PM
ground effect?

triad773
03-25-2008, 02:49 PM
Another thing you can do IF you happen to have rudder pedals (tho I am guessing you do not). Anyway one thing I have found helpful in addition to the other items mentioned is use toe breaks to help turn the aircraft. Once in takeoff position on runway, LOCK TAILWHEEL, and I give it 30% throttle, set flaps at takeoff (or, 45 degrees if you have them on a slider), release breaks and handle the rudder gently while throttling up. Keep the craft as much in the centre of the runway all the while, and try to not become part of the landscape.

Find a way that works for you from all the advice http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Objektskaya
03-29-2008, 02:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by triad773:
Another thing you can do IF you happen to have rudder pedals (tho I am guessing you do not). Anyway one thing I have found helpful in addition to the other items mentioned is use toe breaks to help turn the aircraft. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, no rudder pedals. Are you saying that with rudder pedals, you can individually control the wheel brakes? That's very cool. Is there some way to do it on the keyboard as well? It would be very useful.