PDA

View Full Version : Shinobi dash spam using heavy to cancel



MassiveD.
01-14-2018, 04:28 PM
That's surely not intended?

Fix please?

MassiveD.
01-15-2018, 08:37 AM
Developers?

Knight_Raime
01-15-2018, 11:57 AM
Quad dash?
no it isn't.
But it doesn't give any advantage really either. except makes super twitchy people freak out.
Not saying it can't/shouldn't just be patched.
Just saying it's not a huge priority to fix.

ClantuuGaming
01-15-2018, 12:50 PM
Yeah as of late this has been quite an issue. Since his buff I've noticed a lot of shinobi's quad dashing and by God trying to fight multiple people and worry about that is infuriating. Heck in a 1 vs 1 it's a nuisance because you can't punish a kick after dodging. You can try to guardbreak but good shinobi' s just stop dashing and light spam after. The move is really safe.

MassiveD.
01-15-2018, 01:21 PM
Quad dash?
no it isn't.
But it doesn't give any advantage really either. except makes super twitchy people freak out.
Not saying it can't/shouldn't just be patched.
Just saying it's not a huge priority to fix.

It is absolutely an exploitable issue, because they can use it as a mix up, you have to guess if they are going to do a kick or a dash, and I've noticed every single shinobi exploiting this in 1v1 right now

Knight_Raime
01-15-2018, 02:33 PM
It is absolutely an exploitable issue, because they can use it as a mix up, you have to guess if they are going to do a kick or a dash, and I've noticed every single shinobi exploiting this in 1v1 right now

Never said it wasn't an issue. Just that it wasn't a big one.
You can literally stand and wait to see what he does and all of it is reactable. If you could still GB before finishing the dash animation like when he was released maybe.
I don't need to guess if he's going to dash. Because dashing does nothing to me. It doesn't guarantee anything. He's still got the same 2 options as a normal double dash.

Saml84
01-15-2018, 05:04 PM
Never said it wasn't an issue. Just that it wasn't a big one.
You can literally stand and wait to see what he does and all of it is reactable. If you could still GB before finishing the dash animation like when he was released maybe.
I don't need to guess if he's going to dash. Because dashing does nothing to me. It doesn't guarantee anything. He's still got the same 2 options as a normal double dash.
Its more of a problem not because of that, it is how he can use it to run away and you can never catch him.

Devils-_-legacy
01-15-2018, 06:53 PM
I was going to say the same you can use the quad dash to get out of most situations half the time the gb doesn't track through the quad gb I'll admit Its one of the reason I stopped playing him go In do a light dash to safety rinse repeat but throw a few GB's in for safe measure I think it should be removed

Knight_Raime
01-15-2018, 08:38 PM
Its more of a problem not because of that, it is how he can use it to run away and you can never catch him.

I can't speak to what it may do in 4's as I only duel. I've never seen quad dashing as an attempt to run away in a duel.

We.the.North
01-16-2018, 12:48 AM
Rep 38 Dominion Shinobi here. My opinion : Quad Dashing very, very strong ... however, it should not be fixed because it's not unfair.

On Competitive Sub Reddit, Dominion Shinobi is rated "B" which is the lowest rank :
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bk6y7jw2ujLrjm0Zzbb4aEZUV13gyGoy-IobrkfNgaY/edit#gid=0

If you look at the rating explanation, you'll notice the "S" tiers and the "A" tier also have strong assets, but those assets usually either lead to a 100% - 0% CC combo or lead to much more damage than what the Shinobi can do with his quad dodge. Yes, the quad dodge is quick and will open up a lot of options ... but it leads to a 25 damage heavy attack most of the time. Do you realize how much time a Shinobi would have to invest in the course of a Dominion game if he tries to kill a Lawbringer by only quad dashing and poking 25 damage at a time against that 150 hp turtle ??

So while Quad Dashing is very annoying and works very often ... the punish that follows is underwhelming. If that's your most used tool in Dominion, chances are you'll everytually get ganked from behind before you finish your target and with 110 hp ... you might get caught in a 100% - 0% CC combo that will erase everything you tried to do with your quad dodging spam.

TLDR : Be more afraid of the Sickle Rain ... that thing when executed properly will win Dominion Games ... not the quad dashing.

Trenk2009
01-16-2018, 02:44 AM
Quad dashing is totally legit.
You can totally react to the kick.
If you get caught you just overreact.
Also in what way is that a glitch ? This is just recovery cancel management, a lot of chars can do similar things. For instance, you can pretty much do the same with Zerker: you spin chop, then heavy, and cancel the heavy with another dodge. Pretty much the same here: you double dodge, then ranged heavy, cancel with another dodge.

Don't ask for fix that aren't required. That recovery cancel makes the Shinobi quite fun to play and is the only way for a shinobi to get an engage kick in; eitherway you would simply always be dodged, and the kick would be useless as an opener.

Trenk2009
01-16-2018, 02:47 AM
When it comes to "escaping anything" I don't know what you're talking about ... A shinobi can't do a backward double dodge. He can only do a side dash into a teleported backward dash, which is less efficient than running away, rolling, or backflipping.

Trenk2009
01-16-2018, 02:51 AM
Honestly the only thing that need to get looked at on the Shinobi for me is his last health buff patch.
For me the extra health he got should have been a tier 1 passive feat, not an overall buff.
Because having a char that difficult to punish when well played, with almost the same amount of life as a PK, clearly isn't logic and needs to get looked at.

Other than that his mecanics are fine.

MassiveD.
01-16-2018, 10:22 AM
Rep 38 Dominion Shinobi here. My opinion : Quad Dashing very, very strong ... however, it should not be fixed because it's not unfair.

On Competitive Sub Reddit, Dominion Shinobi is rated "B" which is the lowest rank :
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bk6y7jw2ujLrjm0Zzbb4aEZUV13gyGoy-IobrkfNgaY/edit#gid=0

If you look at the rating explanation, you'll notice the "S" tiers and the "A" tier also have strong assets, but those assets usually either lead to a 100% - 0% CC combo or lead to much more damage than what the Shinobi can do with his quad dodge. Yes, the quad dodge is quick and will open up a lot of options ... but it leads to a 25 damage heavy attack most of the time. Do you realize how much time a Shinobi would have to invest in the course of a Dominion game if he tries to kill a Lawbringer by only quad dashing and poking 25 damage at a time against that 150 hp turtle ??

So while Quad Dashing is very annoying and works very often ... the punish that follows is underwhelming. If that's your most used tool in Dominion, chances are you'll everytually get ganked from behind before you finish your target and with 110 hp ... you might get caught in a 100% - 0% CC combo that will erase everything you tried to do with your quad dodging spam.

TLDR : Be more afraid of the Sickle Rain ... that thing when executed properly will win Dominion Games ... not the quad dashing.



Consider the following - if quad dodging is a glitch, and not intended to be a part of shinobis kit, why should I waste time, energy and effort in learning to deal with it when it's probably gonna be removed if I complain on the forums for long enough?

BTTrinity
01-16-2018, 11:11 AM
Honestly the only thing that need to get looked at on the Shinobi for me is his last health buff patch.
For me the extra health he got should have been a tier 1 passive feat, not an overall buff.
Because having a char that difficult to punish when well played, with almost the same amount of life as a PK, clearly isn't logic and needs to get looked at.

Other than that his mecanics are fine.

The health buff actually made him playable, so no they shouldnt. The only thing Shinobi needs looking at is on his quad dash exploit, other than that he is fine.