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View Full Version : FW 190 A-5/A-6, Erhohte notleistung..



Lazy312
01-11-2006, 05:35 AM
I played with A5 and A6 a little bit last days..

1. Most sources state that Erhohte Notleistung was tested on A5/A6 and it was introduced on serial planes only in 44 on A-8. Is that true?

2. EN doesn't change revs or ata when engaged, however it gives a significant performance boost. A bug? (BTW the pressure changes when EN engaged on A8 or A9.)

3. 1.42ata/2700rpm is restricted to 3 minutes in Pilot's Manual. However I can run 1.42/2700 forever without overheating (and more, for example - 1000m, Crimea map, 104% throttle + WEP, closed radiator - no overheating). ?

4. 1.32ata/2400rpm (Steig- und Kampfleistung, 30 minutes restriction) was used for climb rate tests - climb to 6km in 8.45 min (from Pilot's Manual). However I can use more power and climb to 6km (Crimea, full tank) in 7 minutes with no fear of overheating..

I would be glad for any info..

Lazy312
01-11-2006, 05:35 AM
I played with A5 and A6 a little bit last days..

1. Most sources state that Erhohte Notleistung was tested on A5/A6 and it was introduced on serial planes only in 44 on A-8. Is that true?

2. EN doesn't change revs or ata when engaged, however it gives a significant performance boost. A bug? (BTW the pressure changes when EN engaged on A8 or A9.)

3. 1.42ata/2700rpm is restricted to 3 minutes in Pilot's Manual. However I can run 1.42/2700 forever without overheating (and more, for example - 1000m, Crimea map, 104% throttle + WEP, closed radiator - no overheating). ?

4. 1.32ata/2400rpm (Steig- und Kampfleistung, 30 minutes restriction) was used for climb rate tests - climb to 6km in 8.45 min (from Pilot's Manual). However I can use more power and climb to 6km (Crimea, full tank) in 7 minutes with no fear of overheating..

I would be glad for any info..

WOLFMondo
01-11-2006, 05:43 AM
Most sources? Which ones?

AustinPowers_
01-11-2006, 06:35 AM
Over heating is porked in the sim for all planes, be sure.
Also these limits AFAIK are not just imposed for over heating... its to increase the engine life and/or avoid engine failure.

At 35,000 feet over heating aint much of a concern. But that doesn't mean you would run at 1.42 ATA all day long.

p1ngu666
01-11-2006, 07:39 AM
try yak at 35,000ft, then p47

watch yak, with 2cv power overheat many times quicker than p47 with oodles of power http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

AustinPowers_
01-11-2006, 08:52 AM
Real life nub! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BBB_Hyperion
01-11-2006, 09:12 AM
I just quote someone here "You is wrong be sure".
Erh√¬∂hte Notleistung is a extra System you wont find in the A5,A6 manual from December 43.

faustnik
01-11-2006, 10:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lazy312:
I played with A5 and A6 a little bit last days..

1. Most sources state that Erhohte Notleistung was tested on A5/A6 and it was introduced on serial planes only in 44 on A-8. Is that true?

2. EN doesn't change revs or ata when engaged, however it gives a significant performance boost. A bug? (BTW the pressure changes when EN engaged on A8 or A9.)

3. 1.42ata/2700rpm is restricted to 3 minutes in Pilot's Manual. However I can run 1.42/2700 forever without overheating (and more, for example - 1000m, Crimea map, 104% throttle + WEP, closed radiator - no overheating). ?

4. 1.32ata/2400rpm (Steig- und Kampfleistung, 30 minutes restriction) was used for climb rate tests - climb to 6km in 8.45 min (from Pilot's Manual). However I can use more power and climb to 6km (Crimea, full tank) in 7 minutes with no fear of overheating..

I would be glad for any info.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Answers:

1. EN is an added cooling system. The system allowed the use of high rpms and boost settings for extended periods. In mid-1943 a EN system was developed for Jabos that allowed 1.65 ata@2700rom under 1K meters "for as long as the emergency required".

2. There should be no change in revs or ata by engaging the system, just a cooler running engine.

3.The system allows the use of use of high power settings for extended periods. The 3 minute rating is lifted to indefinate use with the EN system. The system could be run until fuel was expended.

4. The standard climb setting for BMW801D equipped Fw190s is 1.32ata@2400rpms. With EN cooling, higher power settings could be used when climbing for extended periods providing much better climb times.

The currect modeling of the A5 does not allow 1.65ata@2700rpms that was cleared for Jabo use in 1943 and fighter use in 1944. Performance was greatly improved with this power increase.

p1ngu666
01-11-2006, 10:39 AM
E N is "just" spraying lots of fuel into the eye of the supercharger isnt it?

fuel consumption was rather high http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

faustnik
01-11-2006, 10:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
E N is "just" spraying lots of fuel into the eye of the supercharger isnt it?

fuel consumption was rather high http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Real high! In-sim the Fw190A with EN is a fuel sucking pig. The great thing about it though is that it is easy to turn off and on. If you don't need it, don't use it.

p1ngu666
01-11-2006, 11:49 AM
i just leave it on all the time, unless i know i need tobe economic, think it should use fuel at a faster rate, but same for many aircraft..

was good for 45mins of flight, with a drop tank wasnt it?

AustinPowers_
01-11-2006, 11:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:

The currect modeling of the A5 does not allow 1.65ata@2700rpms that was cleared for Jabo use in 1943 and fighter use in 1944. Performance was greatly improved with this power increase. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me want http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

That would be a great '44 addition

Xiolablu3
01-11-2006, 02:26 PM
Not sure about this but I think the original poster is talking about MW50 boost.

This was always supposed to be used on the FW190A's, but never actually got implemented in any fashion until the later 190A's and then not in any great numbers.

Lazy312
01-11-2006, 03:54 PM
Well thanks for info. I did some more search and testing..

Here's a very interesting discussion about FW 190 boost, you can find what C3 injection really does and more there: http://hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=0280...3164&threadid=130798 (http://hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=028087251eaf830d66231ca12ff33164&amp; threadid=130798)

Back to my previous questions:

I found no evidence Erhohte Notleistung was commonly available for A5 or A6. On the contrary I found several people on forums telling that EN was available as a standard for fighters (aside from jabos where it was allowed up to 1000m) from 44 - on A8.

So my opinion is EN shoud not be available on A5. However it's not a big problem as A5/A6 is about as fast as it should be. Anyway FW should achieve its speed using "normal" 1.42/2700 without special boost.

The only thing I found to differ from the manual is the climb rate - 0-6000m in 7 minutes instead of 8.45, even faster with manual PP (Crimea, 100% fuel, no overheating occures).

The ata and rpm indicators are really weird on A5. If you engage EN they will not change but the plane flies faster. I think you simply cannot have more power without increasing pressure or revs. (It is working normally on A8, A9, D9, F8.)

Overheating is also an interesting issue. You can fly at 104%+EN at 1000m without overheating but only 92%+EN at sea level.. strange.

faustnik
01-11-2006, 04:03 PM
Lazy,

You are thinking of EN as a boost more than you are a cooling system. The EN doesn't increase rpms, the throttle does. EN just allows provides a cooling effect allowing the motor to operate at higher settings longer. I agree with you that most A5 fighters would not have it, but, the power settings are the same as Fw190s without EN cooling. Like I said before, with EN cooling power levels should be raised to 1.65ata.

Fw190A5 jabos would have EN cooling after mid-43 with the 1.65ata@2700rpm power setting allowed under 1,000 meters.

For climb testing what throttle setting are you using? To match the test it should be 100% throttle (not 110%) with radiator full open.

faustnik
01-11-2006, 04:12 PM
On the subject, as a wish (yes, just wishful thinking http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) it would be great to have the following versions:

Fw190A4 Eastern front jabo 1.32ata@2400 rpm
Fw190A4 Fighter 1.42ata@2700rpm
Fw190A5 Fighter 1.42ata@2700rpm
Fw190A5 Jabo Late 43 EN 1.65ata@2700rpm under 1K
Fw190A6 Early Fighter 1.42ata@2700rpm
Fw190A6 Late Fighter EN 1.65ata@2700rpm
Fw190A7 Fighter EN 1.65ata@2700rpm

This would give mission builders the chance to make more accurate missions.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Lazy312
01-11-2006, 04:30 PM
Faustnik, I understand that C3 injecting IRL just cools down and prevents detonations when the pressure is increased.

However in IL2 - engaging EN button instantly increases power - so it starts cooling and also gives more throttle. On A5/A6 the pressure stays at 1.42ata and on later FW 190 the pressure instantly increases.

faustnik
01-11-2006, 04:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lazy312:

However in IL2 - engaging EN button instantly increases power - so it starts cooling and also gives more throttle. On A5/A6 the pressure stays at 1.42ata and on later FW 190 the pressure instantly increases. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I don't understand that. I think it is just a attempt to simplify the process.

The Fw190A8 does go to 1.65ata@2700rpm which was the standard setting for an EN equipped fighter.

Jetbuff
01-11-2006, 05:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
On the subject, as a wish (yes, just wishful thinking http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) it would be great to have the following versions:

Fw190A4 Eastern front jabo 1.32ata@2400 rpm
Fw190A4 Fighter 1.42ata@2700rpm
Fw190A5 Fighter 1.42ata@2700rpm
Fw190A5 Jabo Late 43 EN 1.65ata@2700rpm under 1K
Fw190A6 Early Fighter 1.42ata@2700rpm
Fw190A6 Late Fighter EN 1.65ata@2700rpm
Fw190A7 Fighter EN 1.65ata@2700rpm </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That's a really nice list... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Xiolablu3
01-11-2006, 08:57 PM
I gather my post about MW50 on FW190A's is wrong then, as noone has confirmed it. As you guys seem to know a lot about WEP settings I thought I would ask..

I have read that MW50 was tested on the the earlier FW190A's like the A4, but only installed on some A8's is this wrong ??