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Sneakly20
01-11-2018, 09:09 PM
So can anyone explain the Aramusha buffs he received? I would like to thank candle for the actual warrior den update on him. But Iíd like to know what it is solely and possibly have a discussion on it. Thanks in advance

David_gorda
01-11-2018, 09:22 PM
So can anyone explain the Aramusha buffs he received? I would like to thank candle for the actual warrior den update on him. But Iíd like to know what it is solely and possibly have a discussion on it. Thanks in advance

Buffs? Are you ****ing kidding me?!!! I already Knew the balancing team was useless but buffing araspamma noobclass omg????!!!

ChampionRuby50g
01-11-2018, 09:36 PM
So can anyone explain the Aramusha buffs he received? I would like to thank candle for the actual warrior den update on him. But Iíd like to know what it is solely and possibly have a discussion on it. Thanks in advance

This is copied and pasted directly from candles recap, as I think he did a good job on explaining it then. Short of patch notes, this would be the best we have.

ďAramusha buffs - Blade blockade +5 damage on all moves from it, +10 stamina damage increas on ring the bell. Fury unleashed gets uninteruptible stance. Basic top heavy is now 600 ms down from 700ms meaning he now has a top heavy off guardbreak. Basic side heavy is up to 30 damage from 25. He used to be guard broken out of right light attack, this is now fixed.Ē

Personally, I think the heavy from guardbreak is fine, it makes sense to give Ara at least that. Not sure what ring the bell is, but Iím not a fan of increasing stamina damage due to Ara been almost impervious to stamina damage because of Rock Steady. Iím surprised they increased his damage, especially when we have heroís like Highlander who donít do enough damage with a massive bloody claymore. No idea what fury unleashed is either so canít comment there.

David_gorda
01-11-2018, 09:53 PM
This is copied and pasted directly from candles recap, as I think he did a good job on explaining it then. Short of patch notes, this would be the best we have.

ďAramusha buffs - Blade blockade +5 damage on all moves from it, +10 stamina damage increas on ring the bell. Fury unleashed gets uninteruptible stance. Basic top heavy is now 600 ms down from 700ms meaning he now has a top heavy off guardbreak. Basic side heavy is up to 30 damage from 25. He used to be guard broken out of right light attack, this is now fixed.Ē

Personally, I think the heavy from guardbreak is fine, it makes sense to give Ara at least that. Not sure what ring the bell is, but Iím not a fan of increasing stamina damage due to Ara been almost impervious to stamina damage because of Rock Steady. Iím surprised they increased his damage, especially when we have heroís like Highlander who donít do enough damage with a massive bloody claymore. No idea what fury unleashed is either so canít comment there.
Loooool this is fubcking Amazing, they want People to buy steel with real money. Ubisoft are a bunch Of ****inng useless moneygrabing *****es. Never Goin to buy another Game from them.

Lallarn1945
01-11-2018, 10:06 PM
why? just why do they buff an already overpowered character?? His light attacks are beyond fast and now they buff the damage? So when is Raider getting faster attacks and higher damage? =)==)=)=()=(=())=I

RenegadeRasta
01-11-2018, 10:25 PM
Unnecessary Aramusha buff. Rainbows. Removal of boob-ecution. Vikings rigged victory.

What else?

Sneakly20
01-11-2018, 11:14 PM
Guys please try to keep this on topic instead of complaints. So the ring the bell. Blade blockade then bottom of the handle to the face. Stuns and increased stamina damage. Thatís it. I like the fact that itís now worth it to use under certain situations. Fury unleashed is the top heavy after blade blockade Iím pretty sure. Not understanding why they put uninterruptible stance on it. Itís too fast so itís either blocked or.. blocked. Maybe the meant unblockable? Unsure on that until someone clarifies. Now able to get top heavy off of GB. This is nice especially to start your combos. Side heavy damage up. This is also nice. Right light attack could be GB? Iíll be completely honest Iíve never had that problem. Only the problem is being GB through my beginning light attack. Could be a balance thing. Iím not sure myself. Seems nice. But I would really like more insight on the fury unleashed.

Sneakly20
01-11-2018, 11:19 PM
why? just why do they buff an already overpowered character?? His light attacks are beyond fast and now they buff the damage? So when is Raider getting faster attacks and higher damage? =)==)=)=()=(=())=I

Unfortunately the light attacks are a noob stomping thing. They donít really get you anywhere in higher play. Only increased side heavy damage and gave +5 damage to the ring the bell fury unleashed the kick and twin vipers all of which are accomplished on a successful blade blockade. Other than that he gets a free top heavy which was needed. Lastly raider is a completely different character.

David_gorda
01-11-2018, 11:24 PM
Unfortunately the light attacks are a noob stomping thing. They donít really get you anywhere in higher play. Only increased side heavy damage and gave +5 damage to the ring the bell fury unleashed the kick and twin vipers all of which are accomplished on a successful blade blockade. Other than that he gets a free top heavy which was needed. Lastly raider is a completely different character.you are clueless, try play conq Or highlander and then tell us how viable they are at high lvl play. Only reason the devs buff aramusha is to get more noobs buy steel with real money so they can play their new op flavor Of month noob light spamming Class.

bob333e
01-11-2018, 11:33 PM
Buffs? Are you ****ing kidding me?!!! I already Knew the balancing team was useless but buffing araspamma noobclass omg????!!!

Relax lol, they further nerfed Shaman, and Shaman was the bigger money-grabber at S4 release. Other than upping the damage on his side heavy, I do view these buffs as logical, and the Shaman nerfs are logical too (though they still didn't remove guaranteed headbutt/bite on GB). I'll be giving my interpretation shortly to the OP as to why Aramusha's changes are reasonable, at least in my opinion.


No idea what fury unleashed is either so can’t comment there.

Here's his framedata along with names of all of his moves, relevant info starts at 6:29 (though bear in mind his top heavy is now 600ms as of patch 1.18). I will also outline the explanations below.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUiY-TX6zIY


So can anyone explain the Aramusha buffs he received? I would like to thank candle for the actual warrior den update on him. But I’d like to know what it is solely and possibly have a discussion on it. Thanks in advance

Contrary to the recent knee-jerk reaction I'm spotting on the forum, I don't think they 'buffed' Aramusha per-se; it was more of adding things that were missing from him upon release. I also confirm what ChampionRuby outlined, in that all followup attacks from Blade Blockade received a +5 damage buff.

- Top heavy being 600ms instead of 700ms to allow a top heavy on GB makes sense. It's something Aramusha was lacking ever since he was released.

- Apparently there was a bug that allowed you to GB him out of a right-side light attack; it's an inconsistency with the safety of initiating light attacks in general, seeing as past a certain momentum, you cannot GB your opponent out of their attack animations on almost all heroes. So this certainly needed a fix.

- Ring The Bell, which is his unblockable pommel bash followup from Blade Blockade, was near-useless because let's face it, no one really used it. Aramusha still dealt more damage using simple lights, than Blade Blockade into Ring The Bell. Ring The Bell now does 20 stamina damage instead of the previous 10, which encourages more use of this move, as well as 15 damage. Seeing as other heroes have much more ridiculous stamina drain maneuvers, I still don't see this as an issue, and that's on top of Blade Blockade has to land first. He cannot do that from neutral.

- Twin Vipers, which is the followup double-blade unblockable heavy from Blade Blockade, launching from right side (hits from left side of opponent), now deals 40 damage instead of 35. Seeing as it's a followup heavy unblockable that can only be done if Blade Blockade lands, and seeing as other heroes, like Raider, can deal even more with a heavy unblockable upon followup, I think this small buff puts Aramusha's heavy unblockable on-par with other heavy unblockables. Let's not forget, he cannot initiate it from neutral, Blade Blockade must land first. So it certainly cannot be spammed. Also, Twin Vipers is still interruptible. It is also parryable after Blade Blockade (there's enough window for that), so it's still a fair trade.

- Similarly, Fury Unleashed, which is the overhead double-blade followup from Blade Blockade, now deals 30 damage instead of 25. And it also received uninterruptible property. And this is not an unblockable. Both unblockables mentioned above (Twin Vipers and Ring The Bell) still don't have uninterruptible properties. I think it probably received an uninterruptible property for 4v4 scenarios where bumps / tackles / friendly fire can cancel Aramusha out of this move.

Now as you may have noticed, all these three are followups from Blade Blockade. The incentive is obvious: to encourage further use of Blade Blockade, and to increase reward should a Blade Blockade land. Blade Blockade is already near-useless at high-skill play because it almost always gets baited and Aramusha is then punished for it (notice they also didn't speed up Blade Blockade animation nor recovery frames).

- Now what I don't get: they upped the damage on his side heavies by +5. It could be to incentivize heavy attack use more, but I dunno. His side heavies were already fine imo. Not entirely sure on this.

Sneakly20
01-12-2018, 12:24 AM
you are clueless, try play conq Or highlander and then tell us how viable they are at high lvl play. Only reason the devs buff aramusha is to get more noobs buy steel with real money so they can play their new op flavor Of month noob light spamming Class.

Iím not sure why Iím clueless on this. Conq has been addressed and Highlander while I agree could use help is certainly not downright horrible. Just go look at some players who have mastered him. And no the only reason devs buffed Aramusha is because he needed it. He suffers the same as PK bezerker etc with no direct openers. So letís say i humor you. If I wanted an obviously powerful hero I wouldíve picked shaman. Now she recently got nerfed but I promise that ara needed these buffs to be viable.

David_gorda
01-12-2018, 12:38 AM
Iím not sure why Iím clueless on this. Conq has been addressed and Highlander while I agree could use help is certainly not downright horrible. Just go look at some players who have mastered him. And no the only reason devs buffed Aramusha is because he needed it. He suffers the same as PK bezerker etc with no direct openers. So letís say i humor you. If I wanted an obviously powerful hero I wouldíve picked shaman. Now she recently got nerfed but I promise that ara needed these buffs to be viable.
Conq and highlander are ****, aramusha was viable and didnt need buff. I am pissed they buff a strong dlc character before fixing classes that needs alot Of help.

Dane520123
01-12-2018, 12:58 AM
Conq and highlander are ****, aramusha was viable and didnt need buff. I am pissed they buff a strong dlc character before fixing classes that needs alot Of help.

Not our problem you don't know how to block bro. He's useless asf in high lvl play now he has a lil advantage.

Vakris_One
01-12-2018, 12:59 AM
I am pleasantly surprised to discover that the devs know where it's at and don't listen to the knee jerk overly emotional rantings of a particular minority around here. Aramusha needed these adjustments. The bug fix on his right side light being interrupted by GB and letting him land a top heavy from a GB were no brainers. The majority of the buffs he received are to incentivise the use of blade blockade, which is still going to be a highly punishable move and rarely used at high lvl play. The only thing he didn't really need is the +5 damage to his opening side heavies as they were fine in my opinion.

Devils-_-legacy
01-12-2018, 01:01 AM
They gave him a gb from heavy what he needed made BB worth using and +5 damage for side heavys. he needed tweaks from playing with some numbers he's now a viable hero that doesn't get gb ed out of light were as conquer needs full rework so they can't just tweet numbers they need new animation ect same for highlander they done the easy task first instead of waiting the months for the conq rework to be finalised

bob333e
01-12-2018, 01:02 AM
I am pleasantly surprised to discover that the devs know where it's at and don't listen to the knee jerk overly emotional rantings of a particular minority around here. Aramusha needed these adjustments. The bug fix on his right side light being interrupted by GB and letting him land a top heavy from a GB were no brainers. The majority of the buffs he received are to incentivise the use of blade blockade, which is still going to be a highly punishable move and rarely used at high lvl play. The only thing he didn't really need is the +5 damage to his opening side heavies as they were fine in my opinion.

Yup, exactly what I stated; you summarized that much better. I was trying to explain it in detail, poor me.

Vakris_One
01-12-2018, 01:06 AM
Yup, exactly what I stated; you summarized that much better. I was trying to explain it in detail, poor me.
Nothing wrong with going in-depth. I though you explained his changes really well and it helps people who are not familiar with Aramusha's move set to understand what was changed.

David_gorda
01-12-2018, 01:06 AM
I am pleasantly surprised to discover that the devs know where it's at and don't listen to the knee jerk overly emotional rantings of a particular minority around here. Aramusha needed these adjustments. The bug fix on his right side light being interrupted by GB and letting him land a top heavy from a GB were no brainers. The majority of the buffs he received are to incentivise the use of blade blockade, which is still going to be a highly punishable move. The only thing he didn't really need is the +5 damage to his opening side heavies as they were fine in my opinion.sry but the devs dont Know **** they are noobs. Fyi highlander and Raider dont get a heavy from a guardbreak so aramusha dont need that either. It Been so Much talk about about breaking the defensive meta and giving new op classes Heavies from guardbreak only makes the defensive meta even stronger.
Like i Said before the only reason aramusha got a buff now is because its a dlc character, both the highlander and conq are in much more need Of rework then aramusha.
Dev team has once again proven they only care about introducing op dlc Classes so noobs need to spend real money on steel to play this op classes. its blt for honor anymore its For Money....

bob333e
01-12-2018, 01:15 AM
sry but the devs dont Know **** they are noobs. Fyi highlander and Raider dont get a heavy from a guardbreak so aramusha dont need that either. It Been so Much talk about about breaking the defensive meta and giving new op classes Heavies from guardbreak only makes the defensive meta even stronger.
Like i Said before the only reason aramusha got a buff now is because its a dlc character, both the highlander and conq are in much more need Of rework then aramusha.
Dev team has once again proven they only care about introducing op dlc Classes so noobs need to spend real money on steel to play this op classes. its blt for honor anymore its For Money....

Keep in mind it wasn't a 'rework', it was a mere bug-fixing and adjustment of values for some of his moves. Conq, Raider and Highlander are certain to receive bigger love than what Aramusha has just received. But the Highlander wait will be longer I'm afraid.

David_gorda
01-12-2018, 01:22 AM
Keep in mind it wasn't a 'rework', it was a mere adjustment of values for some of his moves. Conq, Raider and Highlander are certain to receive bigger love than what Aramusha has just received. But the Highlander wait will be longer I'm afraid.
Sure then they could give highlander a heavy from guardbreak aswell. Dont think conq has heavy from guardbreak either i havent played him in a long time. The problem with Ubisoft is they release gamebreaking op heroes that owns almost all og classes and it sucks to be forced to play a few classes because of many classes not viable at decent skill lvl.
I want to play highlander but it cant compete with all the aramushas and shamans so i have to play other strong classes.

Vakris_One
01-12-2018, 01:26 AM
sry but the devs dont Know **** they are noobs. Fyi highlander and Raider dont get a heavy from a guardbreak so aramusha dont need that either. It Been so Much talk about about breaking the defensive meta and giving new op classes Heavies from guardbreak only makes the defensive meta even stronger.
Like i Said before the only reason aramusha got a buff now is because its a dlc character, both the highlander and conq are in much more need Of rework then aramusha.
Dev team has once again proven they only care about introducing op dlc Classes so noobs need to spend real money on steel to play this op classes. its blt for honor anymore its For Money....
Sorry man but between your immature and insult laden rantings on this forum and the developers, I'm gonna side with the devs every day of the week. Perhaps you should have spent all that time playing as Aramusha and finding out how mediocre he really is instead of throwing tantrums all over the forum. No offence but I'm really glad the developers don't cater to your brand of knee jerk tantrum throwing.

FYI, Raider gets his zone from a GB and he can GB during his dodge. And Highlander's kit is built around giving him guaranteed heavies from Caber Toss and Fomorian kick as well as trading hits via his Celtic Curse. He's not up to scratch and needs to be tweaked but that is the fundamental design of the Highlander that the devs wished to create. Aramusha did not have anything to compensate his lack of a heavy from GB therefore they corrected that oversight in the easiest way possible.

Conq and Highlander will be among the first to get their reworks in Season 5, the devs said so themselves. It makes no sense for them not to make adjustments to a mediocre character if they have them ready to go. I want my Kensei rework too but I won't begrudge a mediocre hero like Aramusha getting his adjustments first.

David_gorda
01-12-2018, 01:32 AM
Sorry man but between your immature and insult laden rantings on this forum and the developers, I'm gonna side with the devs every day of the week. Perhaps you should have spent all that time playing as Aramusha and finding out how mediocre he really is instead of throwing tantrums all over the forum. No offence but I'm really glad the developers don't cater to your brand of knee jerk tantrum throwing.

FYI, Raider gets his zone from a GB and he can GB during his dodge. And Highlander's kit is built around giving him guaranteed heavies from Caber Toss and Fomorian kick as well as trading hits via his Celtic Curse. He's not up to scratch and needs to be tweaked but that is the fundamental design of the Highlander that the devs wished to create. Aramusha did not have anything to compensate his lack of a heavy from GB therefore they corrected that oversight in the easiest way possible.

Conq and Highlander will be among the first to get their reworks in Season 5, the devs said so themselves. It makes no sense for them not to make adjustments to a mediocre character if they have them ready to go. I want my Kensei rework too but I won't begrudge a mediocre hero like Aramusha getting his adjustments first.
Aramusha isnt medioker on console its a destroyer, the fast lights and softfeints are a nightmare to defend against on console. Sure at the highest competive play on console he is probably bad but aramusha owns People with the spam and feints. Shaman is still better but aramusha is still really ****ing strong.

Vakris_One
01-12-2018, 01:53 AM
Aramusha isnt medioker on console its a destroyer, the fast lights and softfeints are a nightmare to defend against on console. Sure at the highest competive play on console he is probably bad but aramusha owns People with the spam and feints. Shaman is still better but aramusha is still really ****ing strong.
There are people that can handle him on console as well so although I have sympathy to consoles it still doesn't make Aramusha super strong. The people that can handle him have adapted to his playstyle just like all of us had to adapt to Centurion and Shinobi at first. I can understand that Ara is annoying to fight on console but he's not impossible nor is he particularly strong once you deny him his infinite chain.

He is very much a noob stomper that can be negated by higher level players, kinda like Centurion - if his one trick pony combo don't work he's dead. The adjustments to slightly improve Ara's damage and/or his stamina drain from Blade Blockade will not really change this. If anything it might make more Ara's baitable into BB for a free GB. The only dramatic change is that he will now get a chance to execute a player with low health if he successfully GBs them. That's not really anything that massively improves him as he could already kill low health players from a GB with his deadly feint game, albeit with more effort or just go for a wallsplat then heavy.

David_gorda
01-12-2018, 02:01 AM
There are people that can handle him on console as well so although I have sympathy to consoles it still doesn't make Aramusha super strong. The people that can handle him have adapted to his playstyle just like all of us had to adapt to Centurion and Shinobi at first. I can understand that Ara is annoying to fight on console but he's not impossible nor is he particularly strong once you deny him his infinite chain.

He is very much a noob stomper that can be negated by higher level players, kinda like Centurion - if his one trick pony combo don't work he's dead. The adjustments to slightly improve Ara's damage and/or his stamina drain from Blade Blockade will not really change this. If anything it might make more Ara's baitable into BB for a free GB. The only dramatic change is that he will now get a chance to execute a player with low health if he successfully GBs them. That's not really anything that massively improves him as he could already kill low health players from a GB with his deadly feint game, albeit with more effort or just go for a wallsplat then heavy.
I dont have any problems with these aramusha buffs in particular but i still think they should have focused on fixing other classes first. I also stand firmly with the my point that the reason they fixed aramushas number so fast is becauaae it is a dlc Class. Conq has Been a Joke for a long long time for example. If they they can make an aramusha meta with mixups and mindgames (kensai Raider like) i am happy but the spam that we see now is not good.

RoosterIlluzion
01-12-2018, 03:50 AM
Buffs? Are you ****ing kidding me?!!! I already Knew the balancing team was useless but buffing araspamma noobclass omg????!!!

A noob class? Because you lack the skill (well, it's not skill, just decent timing) to block a light attack that repeats the SAME ****ING pattern?

Charmzzz
01-12-2018, 09:49 AM
Complaining about Aramusha but playing Raider? Cannot stop laughing...

You Sir, David_gorda, are playing a S-Tier character and complain about an A- or even B-Tier character. If you have problems with 500ms Light Attacks, then PK, Shinobi, Shaman, Orochi, all of them are a big problem for you. Go back to your Stunning Tap / Zone / Stampede spam...

I am not sorry about sounding harsh, but Raiders complaining about other Characters makes me angry because they have it all: superior mixup games, best running attack in the game, top 3 parry punish, unblockable from neutral AND CGB on dodge. What else do you need to win man?

David_gorda
01-12-2018, 10:38 AM
Complaining about Aramusha but playing Raider? Cannot stop laughing...

You Sir, David_gorda, are playing a S-Tier character and complain about an A- or even B-Tier character. If you have problems with 500ms Light Attacks, then PK, Shinobi, Shaman, Orochi, all of them are a big problem for you. Go back to your Stunning Tap / Zone / Stampede spam...

I am not sorry about sounding harsh, but Raiders complaining about other Characters makes me angry because they have it all: superior mixup games, best running attack in the game, top 3 parry punish, unblockable from neutral AND CGB on dodge. What else do you need to win man?
I am playing about 10 different classes including highlander prestige 13. Is it also S tier? I want all heroes to be decent. Raider is not S tier either, if you think that then lol :D

Klingentaenz3r
01-12-2018, 10:44 AM
Sure then they could give highlander a heavy from guardbreak aswell.

Highlander has a 1000 ms heavy while Aramusha has a 700ms which is just reduced by 100 ms to be able to connect. They also picked the weakest heavy which is top for him. You cannot simply go from 1000 to 600ms. That would mean you would have to rework the animation since it wouldn't roll out like it should. btw his lights are also 600ms. You can see how this is not fitting together right?

I am impatiently waiting even for the smallest buffs for him too but I also understand that he is part of a rework and one of the first that should ship with drastic changes with the beginning of season 5 along with some of the old roster characters. So I just hope they get the big picture with him right when that finally happens but until then we have to endure, be actually patient and hope for the best. If they haven't touched a simple stamina cost reduction adjustment yet then they might just have reworks waiting for us that deem those changes unnecessary. So, bear with us here


edit:

The example with going from 1000 to 600 is a bit overexaggurated I don't know how fast exactly an attack has to be after a GB to be able to connect guaranteed. There is apparently a difference how fast it has to be for each and every character. As for warden for example he has an 800ms side heavy which still connects guaranteed so for heavier classes. So after checking some values up maybe around 800ms-ish is the common value to have. Weakens my theory with the animation a little but I think this still might be a point that you need to consider depending on what Highlander would actually need

BarbeQMichael
01-12-2018, 10:56 AM
FYI, Raider gets his zone from a GB and he can GB during his dodge. And Highlander's kit is built around giving him guaranteed heavies from Caber Toss and Fomorian kick as well as trading hits via his Celtic Curse. He's not up to scratch and needs to be tweaked but that is the fundamental design of the Highlander that the devs wished to create. Aramusha did not have anything to compensate his lack of a heavy from GB therefore they corrected that oversight in the easiest way possible.
.

Raider can even get 30dmg if carry to wall from gb (or the 28dmg zone if not) which is completely fine as the 40dmg side heavy would be brutal like nobushi who gets 38dmg heavy out of gb. Highlander on the other hand can only get light (15) or zone but it consumes all your stamina because you need to cancel it too, so it is not viable. The toss and kick into heavy would be nice (when they dont bug) if you can get them and one combo wouldn't drain all your stamina. In high level play you simply cannot go into OF because it itakes so very long to activate and leaves you without defenses. When people see you going for it, they just gb or light attack you out of it.

I know the HL gets his rework, but it would have gone with the same ease to temporarily buff him until rework with the same patch. Just tinker with the numbers, allow him to attack without losing all stamina, and buff his damage (lights 20 and heavies 40 for example) given that they are the 2nd slowest attacks in game and currently deal 2nd lowest damage and he would be playable until rework.



You Sir, David_gorda, are playing a S-Tier character
Man, you have often good points but your biase against raider is beyond my comprehension. He is mediocre at best, you can go and try him yourself.

Knight_Raime
01-12-2018, 10:59 AM
Nice write up by fady!
I love these changes.
I still personally believe he should be tweaked a bit further.
But i'd be fine with waiting till after we see how parries will be different with season 5.

I still think a little bit more needs to be done with BB.

Charmzzz
01-12-2018, 11:10 AM
Man, you have often good points but your biase against raider is beyond my comprehension. He is mediocre at best, you can go and try him yourself.

Mediocre? Maybe you are mediocre with him, but Raider is by far not "mediocre" with his kit. Have a look at these profiles:
https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/OdinLovesMe/heroes
https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/KesunaTV/heroes

I am playing regularly with these guys and when we face Clutch, Zer0 Craic, Playfiends, Setmyx and such we ALWAYS get at least one Raider, 2 are better. Add one Nobushi and a high damage class and you are good to go. Everything else will mostly fail against this composition, maybe one Raider can be substituted for a Shugo or Lawbringer. But still, Raider is A- or even S-Tier in high level play (talking about 4v4).

Klingentaenz3r
01-12-2018, 11:27 AM
& Ah yeah @topic I very much agree with Vakris_One and Fady have already stated.

Aramusha is very mediocre at best atm. Just a simple inital block shuts him and his attempts down entirely and he has no good tools to actually crack a turtle open. So yes, at medium - higher level play where people are used to punish repitive patterns and plays he becomes quite underwhelming. Also the point that he has such a large stamina pool and can last for ages - not really I'd say. In fact the moment you use his heavies (and of course your zone to open things up which is very much needed) too or if he constantly gets block he loses stamina very very quickly. At a higher level play you cannot just spam away and think that you'll get away with it. There you can only hope that you can land in one or two lights at a time which very underwhelming damage. Wallsplats also cannot be guaranteed of a guardbreak since his directional throws are still bugged and he tends to throw opponents behind him instead of into the wall on your right side (probably because he does not have an omni directional throw atm).

Buffing his blade blockade is a right choice to be made to implement it more into the game as a utilized tool. Personally I would have also added some more speed to activate it.

Buffing his side heavy damage might not have been necessary, but then again this is not spectacular. From 25 to 30 is not that much and this does not affect the further comboed heavies as it is stated that only his BASIC side heavy will receive a buff. His comboed side heavy will still be 33 and his chain finisher will still be at 45 damage. This just helps him to get a little bit more damage in if he manages to pull of a hit with a heavy as a starter. Which is ok since this is indeed a problem for him. He can only do ok-good damage off a combo and hence struggle a lot more against turtles that shut everything down. So yes, good choice I'd say

BarbeQMichael
01-12-2018, 11:31 AM
Mediocre? Maybe you are mediocre with him, but Raider is by far not "mediocre" with his kit. (talking about 4v4).

Don't know about the gank modes, I don't play them as its just hack and slash and going for Xv1. In duels however, his kit is very limited, he has to rely on feinting into top light (easy parry, leaves raider oos and easy kill from there) and parry carry for 28-30dmg and stamina drain. He has no fast attacks so prepare to get parried if you try them. I guess the stampede can work in horde fights just like any other melee/ub/cc but in 1v1 its just free damage to enemy, because it has zero tracking so all you have to do is dodge and get a free gb, or poke him out of it with light if feeling lazy.

Raider has high skill floor so a newbie can rekt other newbies with it (just look at the alpha stats, raider was best) but he also has quite low skill ceiling, meaning that on the higher level duels he is just bad.

Don't know the formula of the fhtr score so I cannot tell how good rating it is as it shows me better than odin but worse than kesuna. In duels I am only plat 4 so there are far better players than me for sure, but for some reason I still never see a single raider there if he is S-tier char, but instead it is infested with all of the assassins excluding zerker.


But this thread was not about raider nor our stats.

Klingentaenz3r
01-12-2018, 11:32 AM
Mediocre? Maybe you are mediocre with him, but Raider is by far not "mediocre" with his kit. Have a look at these profiles:
https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/OdinLovesMe/heroes
https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/KesunaTV/heroes

I am playing regularly with these guys and when we face Clutch, Zer0 Craic, Playfiends, Setmyx and such we ALWAYS get at least one Raider, 2 are better. Add one Nobushi and a high damage class and you are good to go. Everything else will mostly fail against this composition, maybe one Raider can be substituted for a Shugo or Lawbringer. But still, Raider is A- or even S-Tier in high level play (talking about 4v4).

He is usually regarded as an A tier (but more mid or lower) and I would agree with that. He is a very good hero, but not S-Class from a duel perspective. When we talk about 4v4 he is indeed to be regarded as one of the top of the chain characters and there you can indeed say he is S tier since he brings one of the most important kits to the table that no team can affort to miss out upon.

Charmzzz
01-12-2018, 11:50 AM
He is usually regarded as an A tier (but more mid or lower) and I would agree with that. He is a very good hero, but not S-Class from a duel perspective. When we talk about 4v4 he is indeed to be regarded as one of the top of the chain characters and there you can indeed say he is S tier since he brings one of the most important kits to the table that no team can affort to miss out upon.

This. And 4v4 Modes is what was advertised and what I bought. I played some Duels and Tournaments (made it to Plat something last season), but I hated the staring contests and full-cheese that occurred in Plat. So, the conclusion is that balance is and was happening for 4v4 modes, not 1v1 (see Conq and Valk for example). I don't care about Duel Tiers as it is not what For Honor was promised to be (a regular fighter).

BarbeQMichael
01-12-2018, 12:04 PM
I don't care about Duel

Which is completely your right not to like it, just like I don't care about the mindless spamfest of gank modes. Every player has their prefered modes, which is why there are many of them, and reasons why they play them. I for example like the two duel modes (1v1 & 2x1v1), as living up to the title of the game, for honor, where everything that matters is your skill and ability to read your opponent instead of just going 3v1 or ledging/spiking when chance. On some occasions, when not feeling sharp enough for fair duels I too go to dominion to mash some skulls in, it is relaxing not to think too much and just swing the claymore, cap flags and kill players already engaged in fights.

Charmzzz
01-12-2018, 12:49 PM
Which is completely your right not to like it, just like I don't care about the mindless spamfest of gank modes. Every player has their prefered modes, which is why there are many of them, and reasons why they play them. I for example like the two duel modes (1v1 & 2x1v1), as living up to the title of the game, for honor, where everything that matters is your skill and ability to read your opponent instead of just going 3v1 or ledging/spiking when chance. On some occasions, when not feeling sharp enough for fair duels I too go to dominion to mash some skulls in, it is relaxing not to think too much and just swing the claymore, cap flags and kill players already engaged in fights.

Now you are biased, this is not what is happening all the time in Dom. What I miss in Duel is the feeling of beating 2-3 or even all 4 opponents being all alone. Pure adrenaline rush. :D
Still, For Honor has a focus on 4v4 modes. Btw Tribute is not that much ganking compared to Dom.

PDXGorechild
01-12-2018, 12:59 PM
I am pleasantly surprised to discover that the devs know where it's at and don't listen to the knee jerk overly emotional rantings of a particular minority around here. Aramusha needed these adjustments. The bug fix on his right side light being interrupted by GB and letting him land a top heavy from a GB were no brainers. The majority of the buffs he received are to incentivise the use of blade blockade, which is still going to be a highly punishable move and rarely used at high lvl play. The only thing he didn't really need is the +5 damage to his opening side heavies as they were fine in my opinion.

Yep, this 100%.

These buffs don't even effect the Aramusha in a way that will effect the waves of noob assassins who haven't learnt to block yet.

So sick of hearing about this class. I thought the frequency of posts about him were going down due to people actually learning , but alas, here we are again.

BTTrinity
01-12-2018, 01:13 PM
sry but the devs dont Know **** they are noobs. Fyi highlander and Raider dont get a heavy from a guardbreak so aramusha dont need that either. It Been so Much talk about about breaking the defensive meta and giving new op classes Heavies from guardbreak only makes the defensive meta even stronger.
Like i Said before the only reason aramusha got a buff now is because its a dlc character, both the highlander and conq are in much more need Of rework then aramusha.
Dev team has once again proven they only care about introducing op dlc Classes so noobs need to spend real money on steel to play this op classes. its blt for honor anymore its For Money....

You're CLUELESS if you thin HL is better than Ara.

BarbeQMichael
01-12-2018, 01:16 PM
You're CLUELESS if you thin HL is better than Ara.

I'm quite sure he meant just the contrary

vgrimr_J
01-12-2018, 01:21 PM
remove the rock steady feat and he's fine

David_gorda
01-12-2018, 01:23 PM
You're CLUELESS if you thin HL is better than Ara.
Lol i think you need to read again. No highlander is c tier Class. He is cool and fun to play but he sucks. I am still prestige 13 with him causei like a challenge.

BTTrinity
01-12-2018, 02:09 PM
Lol i think you need to read again. No highlander is c tier Class. He is cool and fun to play but he sucks. I am still prestige 13 with him causei like a challenge.

Sry for the typo, I meant

You're clueless if you think Ara is better than HL, they both suffer from the same issue (Not being able to open up anyone for the life of them) but highlanders offensive stance + grab make him far more likely to do so. Though, Ara doesnt need a rework, literally just needs 1 thing after this update (UB Opener) which could already be in his kit (Forward Kick) if they remove the blade blockade restriction (But weaken the throw distance, and get rid of wallsplats) I think Ara would be in a good place, this is probably the reason Ara got attention first, because he only needs a few buffs..

HL does need some actual reworking, however crying for another class to get nerfed because you're still unable to deal with lightspam when 85% of others are is not going to fix your issue.

Also you would probably be taken seriously and get listened too if you give logical and constructive feedback that doesnt call the devs "A bunch of useless blah, blah, blah" because they've been of far more use to this game than you ever have, think about where you stand in the insult you throw someone elses way.

BTTrinity
01-12-2018, 02:11 PM
remove the rock steady feat and he's fine

Then he wouldnt be a heavy hybrid, that feat alone is the entire reason they have him listed as Hybrid. Rock Steady just needs some slight adjustments, besides if it did get removed, everyone would just cry that Ara can throw down a smoke bomb and barrage you from unknown locations. There will always be something.

vgrimr_J
01-12-2018, 02:16 PM
Then he wouldnt be a heavy hybrid, that feat alone is the entire reason they have him listed as Hybrid. Rock Steady just needs some slight adjustments, besides if it did get removed, everyone would just cry that Ara can throw down a smoke bomb and barrage you from unknown locations. There will always be something.

its just simply op for a super spammy char who doesnt fall down from revenge or oos throw.

its either remove it or make it so it does not have effect on revenge throws and activation, wallsplat, cc

BTTrinity
01-12-2018, 02:26 PM
its just simply op for a super spammy char who doesnt fall down from revenge or oos throw.

its either remove it or make it so it does not have effect on revenge throws and activation, wallsplat, cc

So either remove it, or remove it? (literally, the second option you gave is just remove everything the feat does)

vgrimr_J
01-12-2018, 02:32 PM
So either remove it, or remove it? (literally, the second option you gave is just remove everything the feat does)

exactly. this is ofc my opinion what comes from a console player who mains dominion. idk how things are in pc but aras rocksteady is wayy too powerfull for his ability to spam attacks.

BarbeQMichael
01-12-2018, 02:38 PM
Sry for the typo, I meant

You're clueless if you think Ara is better than HL

Well he is right on this though, Aramusha has fastest lights and very fast heavy attacks, and in the update he gets the fastest heavy in game. He also gets the the heavy off parry/gb which HL doesn't have. Also good feinting game and access to full block stance. Highlander can inform he is done with his glass.

Charmzzz
01-12-2018, 02:52 PM
Well he is right on this though, Aramusha has fastest lights and very fast heavy attacks, and in the update he gets the fastest heavy in game. He also gets the the heavy off parry/gb which HL doesn't have. Also good feinting game and access to full block stance. Highlander can inform he is done with his glass.

So many wrong infos...

"fastest lights" - 500ms on first, 400ms on second - PK says no to your argument (while dealing 17/15 damage and Aramusha 15/12)
"fastest heavy" - 600ms - Centurion says no to you (and they both only deal 25 damage with it)

Please stay correct with your statements, "fastest" reads like no one else has a comparable attack which is simply not true.

BTTrinity
01-12-2018, 03:15 PM
Well he is right on this though, Aramusha has fastest lights and very fast heavy attacks, and in the update he gets the fastest heavy in game. He also gets the the heavy off parry/gb which HL doesn't have. Also good feinting game and access to full block stance. Highlander can inform he is done with his glass.

Good luck using those lights on PC. I get parried out of the 400ms chain all the time, let alone not being able to start it more than half the time lol. and heavy's are heavy's, no smart person just lets a heavy fly.

Also, correct me if im wrong, but cant highlander parry into kick into offensive heavy? If so, thats more than Ara has out of a parry right now considering his heavy attacks can only tickle you.

BarbeQMichael
01-12-2018, 04:18 PM
So many wrong infos...

Actually it is all correct, I double checked before posting. Please have a look at this table: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wwr17AtTDFU3BZY_81axLVMKdHdNZuV0wGOb589VKgc/edit

Currently the fastest light attack combo in game is 500/400ms, and only pk and aramusha have it. Fastest heavy from neutral in the game is 600ms, and only cent and aramusha (after patch) have access to it.

There are no faster neutral attacks in game that those of Aramusha's.



Also, correct me if im wrong, but cant highlander parry into kick into offensive heavy? If so, thats more than Ara has out of a parry right now considering his heavy attacks can only tickle you.

HL can indeed flow into Offensive Form from parry, but after that nothing is guaranteed. You can sure try them, sometimes the mixups work, especially if the enemy has no dodge attack.

Charmzzz
01-12-2018, 04:24 PM
"Fastest" implies that there are no other moves on par. And you only mention what Aramusha has, but not what he (still) lacks: no ub opener, no dodge attack, no deflect, rarely hyperarmor. If you are good in blocking he literally cannot do anything to you.

BarbeQMichael
01-12-2018, 04:36 PM
"Fastest" implies that there are no other moves on par. And you only mention what Aramusha has, but not what he (still) lacks: no ub opener, no dodge attack, no deflect, rarely hyperarmor. If you are good in blocking he literally cannot do anything to you.

Fastest implies that there is nothing faster. And since we compared aramusha here to highlander, neither of them has ub opener, dodge attack, deflect, and rare hyperarmor.

Sneakly20
01-12-2018, 05:10 PM
Fastest implies that there is nothing faster. And since we compared aramusha here to highlander, neither of them has ub opener, dodge attack, deflect, and rare hyperarmor.

Aramusha has a zone which I found is the only way to force a reaction. Even then itís very avoidable. Now technically Highlander does have a UB opener it may not be fast but he has his ways of opening up a turtle. Highlander also boasts hyper armor just not as effective in certain situations etc etc. I still think ara needs different changes. The ones he got are good to start with and actually those moves in particular are fine. But some all around things he will need. My proposal to help Ara. That similar to his top heavy leap, his side dash heavies also have hyper armor. Also to aid this take away the actual ďdashĒ and leave the part where he side steps then you have an actual dodge attack that can be used to punish and start his combo. Next make his fury unleashed guaranteed on Blade Blockade to open up his combo since it does it naturally already if it lands. Blade blockade is nice but I still think that itís still a very risky move. The reason for being able to pull of a fury unleashed is because it comes down to either you get all these options for a good blade blackade or you eat a GB. A basic opener like an elbow to the face or something similar can be used from neutral that can be followed up with a light that flows into his combo. Obviously it can be dodged but maybe itís a tight window. Iíve always felt that his combo isnít bad but he needs additional ways of getting into it with mind games. All of this without making him too powerful. I really want feedback on this guys!

The_B0G_
01-14-2018, 10:09 PM
Aramusha has a zone which I found is the only way to force a reaction. Even then itís very avoidable. Now technically Highlander does have a UB opener it may not be fast but he has his ways of opening up a turtle. Highlander also boasts hyper armor just not as effective in certain situations etc etc. I still think ara needs different changes. The ones he got are good to start with and actually those moves in particular are fine. But some all around things he will need. My proposal to help Ara. That similar to his top heavy leap, his side dash heavies also have hyper armor. Also to aid this take away the actual ďdashĒ and leave the part where he side steps then you have an actual dodge attack that can be used to punish and start his combo. Next make his fury unleashed guaranteed on Blade Blockade to open up his combo since it does it naturally already if it lands. Blade blockade is nice but I still think that itís still a very risky move. The reason for being able to pull of a fury unleashed is because it comes down to either you get all these options for a good blade blackade or you eat a GB. A basic opener like an elbow to the face or something similar can be used from neutral that can be followed up with a light that flows into his combo. Obviously it can be dodged but maybe itís a tight window. Iíve always felt that his combo isnít bad but he needs additional ways of getting into it with mind games. All of this without making him too powerful. I really want feedback on this guys!

HL can't open up turtles, what are his unblockable openers? Anything in offensive stance isn't an opener, it takes too long to enter into offensive stance and he can only dodge and has no dodge attack.

Also his hyper armor is useless, even if it does work, which it rarely does since it activates so late into his attack, his max HP and damage is too low for the trade to be worth it.

Aramusha wasn't as bad as HL was before his buff and he definitely shouldn't get another buff until HL is sorted out. After this last Aramusha buff, he should be at the back of the line, where he should have been in the first place.

If they did all the changes you're proposing Aramusha would be a wrecking machine.

Knight_Raime
01-15-2018, 12:11 PM
HL can't open up turtles, what are his unblockable openers? Anything in offensive stance isn't an opener, it takes too long to enter into offensive stance and he can only dodge and has no dodge attack.

Also his hyper armor is useless, even if it does work, which it rarely does since it activates so late into his attack, his max HP and damage is too low for the trade to be worth it.

Aramusha wasn't as bad as HL was before his buff and he definitely shouldn't get another buff until HL is sorted out. After this last Aramusha buff, he should be at the back of the line, where he should have been in the first place.

If they did all the changes you're proposing Aramusha would be a wrecking machine.

Is true that HL can't consistently open turtles. But i'll have to disagree about his armor being useless. his second attack in any chain is a lot faster and deff works for trading. This of course relies on your opponent trying to react/punish your whiff. but it does work.

Mushu and HL are 2 sides of the same coin. Both unique movesets. Both fail to open up defensive players. Both have poor punishes.
You could say mushu is better because "light spam." But I can and have argued that only works on sub par players. So much so that at that skill level even highlander is viable.

They even both have mechanics that rely on the opponent to do something so they can get in.
Only reason why I think Mushu is better than HL is because blade blockade is better than highlander punishes. BB is still inconsistent as heck. But it works often enough. HL can't catch people with his kick or toss very often. OF lights only really work as follow ups from UB heavies. And those need to land. which means a kick or a toss has to land. ( I think parries might work with fast flow but idr.) And if you turtle up waiting to do crushing counters from defensive form people will just bait it out.

Mushu is better. Just not by much.

EDIT: and to reply to your comments about their suggestions. Making fury unleashed (which I think is the top heavy) guaranteed on all BBed attacks would be a lot yes. But if it was designated to heavies it wouldn't. Giving armor to all his dash heavies wouldn't break anything as those are easily baited and parried. So the armor wouldn't really come into play anyway. Not saying we should give them armor. Just saying it wouldn't make a difference. Giving mushu an unblockable from neutral wouldn't be too bad. But I myself haven't come up with a way to add it in that would make sense and be fair completely. My current idea is allowing you to do the kick from BB wether or not you BB. But you can only do it within the active frames of BB. Think of it like Nobu's kick that she has.

The changes suggested wouldn't make him a wrecking machine.

R-a-g-e.
01-15-2018, 01:12 PM
I have a Highlander rep. 7 but I do not play him anymore because I have no chance.

Highlander is totally useless. All of his attacks are indicated by visiual or audio effects. His guardbreak is just useless because you can only strike with a light attack or with the first hit of the zone attack. His Celtic Curse can easily be blocked or parried, he cannot feint really good, his unblockable attacks can eaily be dodged or parried, he has bad stamina, is slow...
If you are lucky then you can grab an enemy by canceling the kick into the grab. Then you can hit him with the unblockable when he is on the ground.
Most people just stay in the distance when they see that I am in the offensive mode and they just dodge all of the offensive attacks. So then the cancelation of the kick into the grab is also useless. He is also useless when you want to fight the soldiers in dominion. You always only hit one or two soldiers with his big sword. This is just a joke. Kensei or Warden can kill more of these soldiers with one strong attack.

Yes, you can parry or guard break and do the offensive kick but this takes so much time that most enemies just dodge.

He is just the most useless hero in the game.