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Californiagurp
01-08-2018, 10:02 PM
Can we seriously stop spamming the fornication out of each other? It's really old it's just a video game and it's supposed to be fun. Why are you guys pooping on everyone with all the cheese? You guys even spam the AI... Like seriously you guys play this game like your opponents swooped in and ****ed your girlfriend/boyfriend.

Bl4zingk
01-08-2018, 10:22 PM
Well your right. It's a video game, if they have fun doing spamming then why ruin it for them.

ChampionRuby50g
01-08-2018, 10:26 PM
Can we seriously stop spamming the fornication out of each other? It's really old it's just a video game and it's supposed to be fun. Why are you guys pooping on everyone with all the cheese? You guys even spam the AI... Like seriously you guys play this game like your opponents swooped in and ****ed your girlfriend/boyfriend.

I play to win, as well as for fun, and if winning means I have to shoulder bash spam this Bot with my Warden to secure the kill quicker...why shouldnít I? Does that really offend you?

Californiagurp
01-08-2018, 10:49 PM
I'm just making a point. No one likes to receive spam. If your fun is just going around spamming so you don't die then why don't you play against bots? And don't play coy you know that there are aspects to this game that are abused and exploited to no end.

Californiagurp
01-08-2018, 11:28 PM
Well god damnit, that makes me look dumb as ****... I thought coy ment contemptuous. My b

UbiInsulin
01-08-2018, 11:32 PM
Well god damnit, that makes me look dumb as ****... I thought coy ment contemptuous. My b

https://media.giphy.com/media/C1Fdach2R4HSg/giphy.gif

I'll just say that it's fine to dislike spammed attacks, but I'd prefer if we kept the thread more about the design of the game than calling out the community for spamming.

Californiagurp
01-09-2018, 12:24 AM
Hey I'm just calling it out cus from what I've seen its pushing away players.

ChampionRuby50g
01-09-2018, 12:39 AM
I'm just making a point. No one likes to receive spam. If your fun is just going around spamming so you don't die then why don't you play against bots? And don't play coy you know that there are aspects to this game that are abused and exploited to no end.

As I was just replying to your point. If you mean playing seriously when you said ďplay this game like your opponents swooped in...Ē, why should I not play seriously? If I want to take each encounter and play the game to win seriously, spam or no spam, I should be allowed to. Just because my opponent might be looking for a more casual fight, which is perfectly fine, doesnít mean I have to change how I want to play to suit those needs, nor should I expect a serious player to take it easy on me if I want to play casually. Of course there are abused aspects, Iím not denying that. But I should still be able to play to my own style. Wardens should bash for example, highly spammable move, can be very frustrating but itís not impossible to defend against, and fairly easy once you understand it. Most heroís have access to a 500ms attack, which will beat the SB every time. Not ideal, but you can also roll out of the SB to a safe distance to escape it. Not ideal, but still possible and if players still complain about that it speaks volumes about them. Not everything will be perfect or easy to do in life, as with this game. Thatís just how itís designed.

bob333e
01-09-2018, 12:58 AM
I didn't quite catch the meaning of the original message; is it about specific cheese mechanics in movesets, or emote spam? at any rate, I'll throw my 2c on both.

- In any multiplayer game, especially when it has ranks, badges, and cosmetics to show yourself off, a good chunk of the playerbase will be too complacent, self-centric, boastful, toxic, and inherently self-priviledged to their own sense of 'it's in the game anyway so it's fine if I do it' and 'everyone is doing it so why not me too'. They will resort to cheesing to win because in a sense, they're afraid to lose. Afraid to be made fun of. In For Honor, you'll rarely meet with a rep40 who takes the loss against a rep2 [same hero] with a sporty attitude. They will feel contempt. They will likely want a rematch. And by then, they will likely resort to cheese, to secure a win and calm their egos down. Could be another mirror match or they could change to a cheesier hero.

It's normal in any multiplayer. Yes, the primary and original intent of this game was meant for fun. That was how it was when For Honor was still in the alphas and betas. Everyone was just so eager to explore it and explore its combat system, no one minded losses, no one cared about ranks and stuff. As people played more and more, and leveled more and more, complacency settles in. Ego takes over. '[I]I have 500 hours gameplay dude, and I'm a rep33 main and have the best outfits and that ornament from 1st place in tournament, and I'm diamond, lol you don't stand a chance' you get the idea. And they'll do whatever to win.

Also, consider people who have gone through a number of losses and emote spam and ledging and all that, before you finally met them in a match. By the time you met them, they're already in tilt mode, and they'll want to take out their anger somehow.

Consider as well the immature players who play this game just like any other person. Children aged 16 or below, they can play For Honor, nothing's keeping them from that. And these people will react very differently to losses than older people. And they'll take attack spam / emote spam to a psychotic degree, it gets ingrained in their heads, they become obssessed with doing it to everyone else just so they don't feel bad about themselves. And should they get countered and defeated, you're a cheater/hacker/whatever.

And, consider the people who intentionally and explicitly seek salt. For the youtube keks. I can already name a few youtubers who have this habit but that's not the point of this discussion.


- Emote spam, just like message spam, are 90% intentional salt-seeking rather than a venting method / winning meta. The best example would be the point down gesture in Dark Souls (and poop-throwing) after someone kills you. They are ways that players visually and methodically associate with specific meanings that usually bear ill intent. But for all intents and purposes, these things are in-game limitations, you can only do so much to show you're angry at someone and attempt to make them angry too, and that's where it becomes really silly when these people who resort to these methods, think they automatically work on everybody. They don't. They make themselves look sillier than the person they're trying to 'shame' or 'build salt'; they only 'win' if the other player swallowed the bait and replied or returned an insult.

Now if you're on PC, there's a disadvantage in For Honor in that your opponent doesn't need to look up your username then send a hateful message; they can do that right away in the in-game quick chat. This is indeed a problem and it takes more effort to abstain yourself from going into tilt mode and risking being the silly one in the scenario.

Lastly, to merge these two points together, people in multiplayer games, especially competitive players, will attack spam / emote spam / hatemail mostly for a shared goal: to make you go tilt, lose a good chunk of your focus and composition, and become an easier target for them to defeat, because when you're playing really angry or frustrated, you won't play just as good. And the anger will only build up as you keep losing to attack spam and they keep emote spamming afterwards.

Now to piggy-back on UbiInsulin: For Honor's combat system revolves mostly around reflexes and counters. That's how it was improved upon its original vision long ago. This is the best thing it shares with almost any other fighting game. The ways in which it accomplishes this is what makes it stand out as unique. As you already know, in For Honor, everything is counterable and every mistake is punishable. People who are adept at specific cheese mechanics and situational attack spam, want (or rather, desire/aim) to nullify counters against them, and deny punishment of mistakes they do. They're too afraid to lose so they don't want to take risks. They don't play for fun anymore. They play to win.

There's still a limit to how much they can minimize punishment and counters against them; unfortunately it will require the opponent double the effort to counter them. The most blatant examples are the S4 heroes. Aramusha and Shaman. You already know how win-centric players use these two heroes. Nevertheless, everything they do, is still very counterable, and still punishable; only, your windows are smaller, and your punishments are bigger than theirs, should you make a mistake.

That's where you draw the line with skill. They, with time, can no longer rely on the full array of a moveset to stand their ground. They will become stuck in whatever cheese methods they've adopted. Once countered, they become helpless. Whereas you, you've gone and countered the worst; anything else will pale in comparison. You grow to be a better, stronger fighter in For Honor; and those spam cheesers will recede into rust and will drown into the very anger and frustration they attempted to cause in the first place.

Holy hell, I wrote an entire journal O.o oh well... thanks for reading! :D

Deus Vult

Californiagurp
01-09-2018, 01:05 AM
Ok but dude if your making it so that people don't want to play that's kinda messed up. Say what ever you want to justify it. You gotta think though people are going to keep leaving matches. Less people are going to want to play the game. It gets old, plus you know when you are taking it too far. Playing your style is cool but abusing other players for your amusement is uncalled-for.

bob333e
01-09-2018, 01:07 AM
Playing your style is cool but abusing other players for your amusement is uncalled-for.

It ceases to be about style soon as it turns into intentional salt-seeking. Which is prevalent in any multiplayer game, unfortunately.

Lol apologies about the journal :p just felt couldn't summarize all of that, haha

Californiagurp
01-09-2018, 01:18 AM
Also fady117 thanks for the input that gave me more perspective on the situation.

Californiagurp
01-09-2018, 01:19 AM
Sorry I sent the second one late I was reading lol

bob333e
01-09-2018, 01:19 AM
Also fady117 thanks for the input that gave me more perspective on the situation.

https://i.imgur.com/VUsWdAe.gif