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Jackazillalope
12-28-2017, 02:21 AM
I like this game I really do but it's been almost a year and it still feels like so much about the balance of the game is wrong and downright unfair.
So this is just somethings I think would help keep the spammy characters less spammy.

Warden.
I am so tired of dealing with the warden shoulder bash. It is so broken. Yes broken. You can dodge it but it is really fast for an unblockable. To make matters worse if you do try to dodge the attack then it can just be cancelled into a GB. The only characters that can effectively counter this tactic are some of the assassins that can do an attack dodge but if they do that on reaction then the warden can just wait for the attack and parry. This is the wardens vortex and it is a problem. On top of this it has to be one of the best out of stamina punishes in the game since on top of all the free damage potential if the attack lands it just keeps you out of stamina. So all this together leads to one the outright strongest attacks in the game. To balance this attack the cancel into GB needs to go. I feel like so many other characters have to commit to their unblockable attacks, why shouldn't warden. I don't mind if they can cancel the attack but I feel that the cool-down after cancellation should not be fast enough to lead to a GB. This takes the number of possible outcomes down to 3 instead of 4. It doesn't make the attack less potent but it does a lot I feel to how much the attack can be spammed.

Conquer.
This is not as bad of an offender but it still feels like a character that has to rely on their fast unblockable attack to do damage leading to a very spammable attack that isn't very fun or interesting to play against. I don't really have much of a solution to this character other than it needs to be reworked so that it doesn't rely on the shield bash to open up their opponents.

Warlord.
The headbutt is bad. I know it has gotten some nerfs as well as the last two attacks and bunch of the others i'll mention but that hasn't stopped it from being a really annoying move that does guarantee damage if it lands.which I feel is a bit much for any character. I know that it isn't a lot of damage but it can add up.

Gladiator.
I just think this character has way too many ways to initiate their unblockable punch plus the toe stab which together don't bother me as much as the others on this list but it is still annoying and highly spammable.

Shaman.
Geez pick something. This character has to be the worst balance designed character in the whole game by a mile. A long range, fast heavy that can come from any direction. Check. A super long range, fast, unblockable that can wall stun and almost always guarantees some damage. Check. A high damage, fast dodge attack. Check. Almost all of which don't need to be fainted since "soft faints" permeate the entire character. This character feels like it was designed to be in For Honor 2 where maybe there would be more characters would exist that could counter how much BS this character can dish.

These are the worst and ones I would like if they were addressed in a meaningful way.

Others that could use some reworking are: Shugoki, Lawbringer, Valkyrie. At least in regards to their unblockable attacks that might feel annoying but they don't really have much else to work with.

I know this feels really negative and it was supposed to. I know there are ways to counter all these attacks but most of the time, unless you have insane reflexes or are a master manipulator that can predict the enemies attack before they do it, these attacks feel incredibly cheap.

bob333e
12-28-2017, 02:40 AM
What I'm actually reading is:


Warden.
I am so tired of dealing with the warden shoulder bash.


Conquer.
feels like a character that has to rely on their fast unblockable attack to do damage leading to a very spammable attack


Warlord.
The headbutt is bad.


Gladiator.
I just think this character has way too many ways to initiate their unblockable


Shaman.
A super long range, fast, unblockable that can wall stun and almost always guarantees some damage


Others that could use some reworking are: Shugoki, Lawbringer, Valkyrie. At least in regards to their unblockable attacks


these attacks feel incredibly cheap.

Hence me concluding from your poll: spammy = unblockable attack

Which is a long-winded, half-eared debate around the nature of unblockables, their use, and how they are countered.

You have a problem with unblockables, friend. And this is easily solved with... you guessed it: Practice. I heavily recommend level 3 bots. It's what I use to counter most of what you mentioned.

I'll pass on voting on anything, since the nature of this poll is purely personal bias, from what I've read. There are far worse cases than unblockables, mind you. (And I'm surprised you didn't mention Cent's Legion Kick :p)

Jackazillalope
12-28-2017, 03:04 AM
My problem isn't with the unblockables themselves. It's how they can be abused and how difficult they can be to avoid in the best situation. The cents kick isn't there because even thought it is annoying, it can't be cancelled into another attack, the attack startup is slow compared to most other unblockable attacks and the animation is easy to read. Bots aren't a perfect solution to practice since they almost never play like people do and Level 3 bots only function on reaction and not real strategy. I also don't have a problem with the bottom 3 because either they are too slow to make a huge impact in a fight or even if they do land they don't guarantee any damage. I'd actually like to see them reworked to make those attack more meaningful. Yes it's all subjective but that doesn't mean that I am automatically wrong. Your dismissal by saying telling me that I am just not good enough is kinda toxic.

David_gorda
12-28-2017, 03:04 AM
Op has point, warlord and Warden has Been nerfed though and are not as strong as they once were. Noone plays conq anymore but He never had any decent attacking options then spamming shieldbash. These 3 characters and pk was the S tier classes in season 1. Why? They all had unblockable fast attacks except pk but pk had his suoerfast zoneattack.
The new superheroes and Worse offenders are the shaman and gladiator. Glad because his zoneattack and the Toestabbing. Funny thing is if Out Of stamina and get toeststabbing you fall to the ground.
Shaman is shaman, designed to be the jack of all trades but now its the master Of all trades instead.

Ulrichvonbek111
12-28-2017, 04:53 AM
My problem isn't with the unblockables themselves. It's how they can be abused and how difficult they can be to avoid in the best situation. The cents kick isn't there because even thought it is annoying, it can't be cancelled into another attack, the attack startup is slow compared to most other unblockable attacks and the animation is easy to read. Bots aren't a perfect solution to practice since they almost never play like people do and Level 3 bots only function on reaction and not real strategy. I also don't have a problem with the bottom 3 because either they are too slow to make a huge impact in a fight or even if they do land they don't guarantee any damage. I'd actually like to see them reworked to make those attack more meaningful. Yes it's all subjective but that doesn't mean that I am automatically wrong. Your dismissal by saying telling me that I am just not good enough is kinda toxic.

I sympathize with you.
It seems the one who uses subterfuge to dismiss your point regards themself to be a bit of know it all.
Every thread they are in there spouting their version of what it's all about,,in some individual threads up to 4 times or more.
They are in their own little smug gang that teams up on people or offering their teammates appraisals..dreams of grandeur..lol.

Yes your post is so very true and interesting,,
Spamtuion took 2 seasons and 300+ posts before fix..
Wardens vortex cancel guardbreak abused constantly..
Shaman,,say no more...

Thank you for your post and don't let the gang get you down.

Saml84
12-28-2017, 04:59 AM
I like this game I really do but it's been almost a year and it still feels like so much about the balance of the game is wrong and downright unfair.
So this is just somethings I think would help keep the spammy characters less spammy.

Warden.
I am so tired of dealing with the warden shoulder bash. It is so broken. Yes broken. You can dodge it but it is really fast for an unblockable. To make matters worse if you do try to dodge the attack then it can just be cancelled into a GB. The only characters that can effectively counter this tactic are some of the assassins that can do an attack dodge but if they do that on reaction then the warden can just wait for the attack and parry. This is the wardens vortex and it is a problem. On top of this it has to be one of the best out of stamina punishes in the game since on top of all the free damage potential if the attack lands it just keeps you out of stamina. So all this together leads to one the outright strongest attacks in the game. To balance this attack the cancel into GB needs to go. I feel like so many other characters have to commit to their unblockable attacks, why shouldn't warden. I don't mind if they can cancel the attack but I feel that the cool-down after cancellation should not be fast enough to lead to a GB. This takes the number of possible outcomes down to 3 instead of 4. It doesn't make the attack less potent but it does a lot I feel to how much the attack can be spammed.

Conquer.
This is not as bad of an offender but it still feels like a character that has to rely on their fast unblockable attack to do damage leading to a very spammable attack that isn't very fun or interesting to play against. I don't really have much of a solution to this character other than it needs to be reworked so that it doesn't rely on the shield bash to open up their opponents.

Warlord.
The headbutt is bad. I know it has gotten some nerfs as well as the last two attacks and bunch of the others i'll mention but that hasn't stopped it from being a really annoying move that does guarantee damage if it lands.which I feel is a bit much for any character. I know that it isn't a lot of damage but it can add up.

Gladiator.
I just think this character has way too many ways to initiate their unblockable punch plus the toe stab which together don't bother me as much as the others on this list but it is still annoying and highly spammable.

Shaman.
Geez pick something. This character has to be the worst balance designed character in the whole game by a mile. A long range, fast heavy that can come from any direction. Check. A super long range, fast, unblockable that can wall stun and almost always guarantees some damage. Check. A high damage, fast dodge attack. Check. Almost all of which don't need to be fainted since "soft faints" permeate the entire character. This character feels like it was designed to be in For Honor 2 where maybe there would be more characters would exist that could counter how much BS this character can dish.

These are the worst and ones I would like if they were addressed in a meaningful way.

Others that could use some reworking are: Shugoki, Lawbringer, Valkyrie. At least in regards to their unblockable attacks that might feel annoying but they don't really have much else to work with.

I know this feels really negative and it was supposed to. I know there are ways to counter all these attacks but most of the time, unless you have insane reflexes or are a master manipulator that can predict the enemies attack before they do it, these attacks feel incredibly cheap.
Omg lol complains about warden and conq but doesn't even mention pk or shinobi or any of the other true cancer characters this has to be a joke.

Tundra 793
12-28-2017, 05:14 AM
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/52583dcce4b034d72304324c/t/5678fc86b204d568adf96966/1450769549599/fgswcalm.gif

No need for this to devolve into another flame war. OP has some good points, and some less good ones, but nothing worth dismissing his whole thread over.

In my opinion; Almost the entire vanilla hero roster is fine. They're not overly spammy, only a few rely on their unblockables (and the Conq is getting reworked).

The worst offenders for spammy gameplay, is all the newer heroes, Highlander excluded. Archo-Vax' made a thread several weeks ago sharing his concern that all the new heroes were changing the core gameplay of For Honor, by focusing on faster, often unblockable moves.
I think he's right about that.

I would never consider Warden, Warlord, Conq or Valkyrie to be particularly spammy characters compared to the newer heroes, but OP does have a valid point here.


They are in their own little smug gang that teams up on people or offering their teammates appraisals..dreams of grandeur..lol.

"Gang" is a bit derogative, I like to think of us as a team, or just friends.
But you can't join the gang.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9aF9_mZDyY

Knight_Raime
12-28-2017, 07:18 AM
I'm absolutely going to get flamed for this just because i'm an unpopular figure around here no matter how nice I type something i'll get flamed anyway just because I'm not agreeing. But whatever.

From everything listed it seems like you have an issue with unblockable attacks.
You seem to think (or at least it feels like) that characters with easy access to unblockables are fundemantally broken. I will have to disagree with that.
But it really doesn't matter what you or I think. Here is the facts. For honor on launch was a game that heavily punished the attacker and highly rewarded the defender.
The devs intended this. Their idea of this fantasy game was dictated by the player who had the best reactions could block everything and win.

Regardless of wether or not that way was better or not enough of the community came together and decided they didn't like it. They wanted it to be more like a traditional fighter where offense and defense were good. Where it was more about mind games and reaction. Not just one or the other. Part of the solution we all seemed to agree on at the time was giving everyone an unblockable from neutral. As unblockables by nature force a person to do something.

And lets just stop right there for a second. If you're not fond of that. You should just quit for honor. I'm not saying things are balanced at the moment. Nor that the above characters are 100% fine. What i'm saying is the reworks of the OG heros, the DLC heros (both good ones and ones that need touching up,) and any future heros are going to have some way to open up your opponent from neutral. Which will likely include an unblockable of some kind. So you'll need to decide if you want to stick around for that or not.

Anyway to continue. I will comment on each hero you listed:

~warden. It is worth noting that while warden CAN react to anything you do surrounding his bash he's got an extremely small window to. Several patches ago Warden used to be able to cancel his bash very late into his animation. Leaving almost no room to react to his attacks. Now the warden is forced to cancel very close to the beginning of his SB. Now instead of the warden reacting to anything you do he's got to guess what you're going to do. If he wants to cancel and parry your light you throw to stop the mix up he has to start charging and then cancel immediately. The timing has to be perfect for this. Most people are not capable of doing this. Warden SB is pretty slow as is. And is perfectly reactable to once you learn to start reading how warden plays.

That being said the majority of the people I speak to don't like how his kit is centered around bash. To them it makes his gameplay one sided. Which I can see the merit of. So do I think he needs changing? No. Should he be changed? Probably. he's going to feel dated once all other heros are reworked and updated.

~Conq. Just throwing this out here but good conq play hardly involves his bash. it's mostly feints with full block stance and punishing people for falling for it. That being said he is one of the 3 heros that are being majorly reworked. Kensei and berzerker are the other 2.

~Warlord. Majority of the cast has a way to guarantee damage/stamina damage. Headbutt has been slowed more than once. it's decently reactable to. Warlord is one of the better kits out there design wise. Basically the bare minimum of what we want out of a hero. He's been nerfed a lot and he's probably the most balanced he's ever been. You really should have seen what he was like closer to launch. He doesn't need a rework. maybe a new move or 2 and some polish. Optimal warlord play doesn't really involve using his headbutt often. So chances are if you're fighting someone who's spamming it on you they're likely not a good player. and you should be able to easily deal with them if you're a player of decent skill.

~Gladiator is considered to be the pinnacle of design by most of the competitive community. none of his bashes guarantee damage. Same with toe poke. (unless you toe poke someone wall they are out of stamina then you get a free heavy). he's meant to harass and beat you via mix ups. The only thing possibly warrenting a change on him is his zone attack. He's probably the last hero that should receive any attention.

~Shaman...sigh. She doesn't need a rework. she's almost as good design wise as gladiator. But her issue was and still is the rewards she gets from mix ups. those should be adjusted slightly. She's awful against characters who can fight at range. and most heros with a light attack can negate her mix ups. It's a lot to take in what she can do and that makes her feel overwhelming. That was a problem with Centurion as well. But even an average player can deal with her with enough knowledge and practice. She deff still needs some nerfs. but she's not broken by any means.

Finally you are being a bit too defensive. No one enjoys being told the problem is them. I've explained what unblockable attacks are for and why they exist. So you need to decide if you're okay with that. If you are fine or you want to continue anyway you'll have to ditch the negative attitude you're holding. You won't grow as a player if you write off your losses as someone elses fault. Fades advice about fighting bots is good advice. yes they don't play like normal players. But they force you to get your timings down. They force you to deal with frustrating aspects of the kit. It builds your experience with the kit. I would also add that you should really try the heros themselves to get a better feel for how things are. Only fighting them gives you half the experience.

I'm not saying it's fun to die to someone who Shoulder bashes you or head butts you to the grave. But as with "light spam" that is entry level problems. If you are actually decent enough at the game to be considered a good player you don't die to these things. Your choice is to learn how to fight these things somehow or to just accept that the game isn't for you. Which is totally fine.

inb4 "oh look another thread where Raime tells someone to git gud and defends broken characters he mains."

Jackazillalope
12-28-2017, 10:23 AM
I appreciate the different view points that this has drawn.

I'll admit that I wrote my original post after a couple very frustrating losses to players that abused unblockables.

I know I am not even close to being great at the game. But I can still do really well from time to time and those are the moments that I play the game for.

I also want to disclose that I main Lawbringer and part of my frustration comes from how limited the kit feels at dealing with certain characters. Even some of the vanilla ones.

I know that parries and the shove are big parts of the kit but parries don't always guarantee damage and neither does the shove.

The shove itself, as an unblockable, feels really disappointing sometimes. The ability to dodge out of the follow up attack and then be punished from a light doesn't sit right. While a GB is safer some characters can dash attack out of it again punishing me. A heavy is really unsafe because a good player could then just parry my slow attacks or just block it. Or I do nothing and waste the stamina that it took to shove in the first place.

The long arm is a joke of an attack that only ever works on people who don't pay attention at all or are in recovery frames and is only really useful as a gank tool. Same with the ZA, It is only really good for clearing minions and even if it does land it just tickles the opponent.

So with this perspective is how I see some of the characters in the game.

This all being said I feel like some of what the people want and what the reality of the game is don't really line up. People want the game to shift away from being a defensive slog back and forth but if that means making new characters that clearly were designed with the new play style in mind leaves the older characters feeling weak by comparison.

I know glad and shaman are well designed for the games mechanics. The have so many options and different ways to deal with all kinds of characters and are the result of learning how people play For Honor from the devs. But they are an evolution from how people play and they have left some of the vanilla characters behind that were clearly designed with a more defensive play-style in mind.

I honestly feel like my character has fallen out of fashion with the times as a more and more aggressive characters take the spot light.

Sorry if I seem whiny or long winded but while I appreciate evolution it just feels like the ground has become more and more uneven with each season.

ChampionRuby50g
12-28-2017, 10:57 AM
I appreciate the different view points that this has drawn.

I'll admit that I wrote my original post after a couple very frustrating losses to players that abused unblockables.

I know I am not even close to being great at the game. But I can still do really well from time to time and those are the moments that I play the game for.

I also want to disclose that I main Lawbringer and part of my frustration comes from how limited the kit feels at dealing with certain characters. Even some of the vanilla ones.

I know that parries and the shove are big parts of the kit but parries don't always guarantee damage and neither does the shove.

The shove itself, as an unblockable, feels really disappointing sometimes. The ability to dodge out of the follow up attack and then be punished from a light doesn't sit right. While a GB is safer some characters can dash attack out of it again punishing me. A heavy is really unsafe because a good player could then just parry my slow attacks or just block it. Or I do nothing and waste the stamina that it took to shove in the first place.

The long arm is a joke of an attack that only ever works on people who don't pay attention at all or are in recovery frames and is only really useful as a gank tool. Same with the ZA, It is only really good for clearing minions and even if it does land it just tickles the opponent.

So with this perspective is how I see some of the characters in the game.

This all being said I feel like some of what the people want and what the reality of the game is don't really line up. People want the game to shift away from being a defensive slog back and forth but if that means making new characters that clearly were designed with the new play style in mind leaves the older characters feeling weak by comparison.

I know glad and shaman are well designed for the games mechanics. The have so many options and different ways to deal with all kinds of characters and are the result of learning how people play For Honor from the devs. But they are an evolution from how people play and they have left some of the vanilla characters behind that were clearly designed with a more defensive play-style in mind.

I honestly feel like my character has fallen out of fashion with the times as a more and more aggressive characters take the spot light.

Sorry if I seem whiny or long winded but while I appreciate evolution it just feels like the ground has become more and more uneven with each season.

Just to correct you on one thing, LB will ALWAYS have a way for confirmed damage after any parry. He arguably has some of the best parry punishes in the game, with it been possible to go right into GB for a heavy or throw, the stunning light attack which does damage and can lead into a possible GB, Make Way which if results in A wall splat earns you a top heavy->shove into either light or GB and then Swift Justice, top heavy unblockable.

Because you mentioned Warden, and main LB my suggestion is when you see a Warden start been shoulder spam reliant, use your toplight. It is 500ms, which means its faster than Wardens SB which is 700ms, I believe. If you do this right, it will always knock the Warden out of SB, as it doesn't get hyper armor until the final stages of it.

Knight_Raime
12-28-2017, 12:14 PM
I appreciate the different view points that this has drawn.

I'll admit that I wrote my original post after a couple very frustrating losses to players that abused unblockables.

I know I am not even close to being great at the game. But I can still do really well from time to time and those are the moments that I play the game for.

I also want to disclose that I main Lawbringer and part of my frustration comes from how limited the kit feels at dealing with certain characters. Even some of the vanilla ones.

I know that parries and the shove are big parts of the kit but parries don't always guarantee damage and neither does the shove.

The shove itself, as an unblockable, feels really disappointing sometimes. The ability to dodge out of the follow up attack and then be punished from a light doesn't sit right. While a GB is safer some characters can dash attack out of it again punishing me. A heavy is really unsafe because a good player could then just parry my slow attacks or just block it. Or I do nothing and waste the stamina that it took to shove in the first place.

The long arm is a joke of an attack that only ever works on people who don't pay attention at all or are in recovery frames and is only really useful as a gank tool. Same with the ZA, It is only really good for clearing minions and even if it does land it just tickles the opponent.

So with this perspective is how I see some of the characters in the game.

This all being said I feel like some of what the people want and what the reality of the game is don't really line up. People want the game to shift away from being a defensive slog back and forth but if that means making new characters that clearly were designed with the new play style in mind leaves the older characters feeling weak by comparison.

I know glad and shaman are well designed for the games mechanics. The have so many options and different ways to deal with all kinds of characters and are the result of learning how people play For Honor from the devs. But they are an evolution from how people play and they have left some of the vanilla characters behind that were clearly designed with a more defensive play-style in mind.

I honestly feel like my character has fallen out of fashion with the times as a more and more aggressive characters take the spot light.

Sorry if I seem whiny or long winded but while I appreciate evolution it just feels like the ground has become more and more uneven with each season.

Yes some of the OG heros need updating. Lawdaddy will hopefully get a rework one day.
Far as I know LB's top light is fast enough to bop warden out of his SB mix up. I still struggle to parry that attack myself and I consider myself to be decent at parries.
Also LB does have a parry counter move that is a light stun that is always confirmed. I don't know if ad mortem is confirmed off of any parry anymore. But that is a potential other one.
In my experience on console most people can't react fast enough to deal with the light after being shoved. assassins are really the only ones who can reliably deal with it.

Arekonator
12-28-2017, 03:13 PM
. Ad mortem is and always was only confirmed from light parry or OOS parry.

Regarding the topic, i am surprised to see lack of PKs and Orochis. Every once in a while you will run into guy with garbage connection whos zone attacks come out instanteously with no animation where you simply cant react to it. Or warlord with instant headbutt. I personally find those more frustrating than any normal unblockables.
But thats more to blame on netcode where people with garbage internet benefit from it.

Okita_Soji..
12-28-2017, 03:42 PM
I agree with some of the OP statements. I don't duel so my perspective is in 4v4 modes. I do find that most Wardens I face do spam the SB over and over. Whether or not I can handle it isn't the point, it is all he's got so they just use that. Same with a bunch of heroes, LB hardly do anything but the shove, Cents just try to hit the uppercut to pin you, Orochi just does top lights and zone, Aramusha has the combo, etc. Many people just use 1 or 2 moves which are easy to do and guarantee some damage.

If someone is having issues with unblockables lvl 3 bots wont help. They don't fight anything like people. Sure they use the kit of the hero and you can learn how the heroes moves are. But they wont do the same move over and over trying to trip you up like GB 3-4 times in a row, which I love when people do that. I would love if you could pick a bot in training and select and attack for it to do. Say Raiders UB over and over so you can the timing down. That could help in the future since all the reworks are gonna be new unblockables and soft feints for all.

Alustar.
12-28-2017, 03:47 PM
Just to throw my hat in here, Raime is spot on with his assessment. Bear in mind that's not saying either of us are saying or aren't a good or even a great gamer, regarding for honor or any other game you play. A lot of the misconceptions posters on the forums have is that when we give advice or try and find the root of a problem, that we are being condescending or out right negating any work they may have put in. That's far from the case, I myself am and have always maintained that I'm probably a worse player than the bulk of active players on the forums. I try to use this as a bench mark for others. If I can do it, so could you? It doesn't always come off that way. But bear in mind, we aren't saying you haven't tried or aren't good enough, simply that what ever it is you -are- doing clearly isn't working, and you need to change up something to accommodate.

Also, I would like to suggest in addendum to bot practice, have a friend use a particular hero you don't do well and work on those specific problem moves. I've found even with bot practice you don't have near the controlled environment to really fine tune your practice. Friends can be that work around. I can now deflect valkyrie ranged closers consistently for instance. However, bot practice is great for muscle memory for conditional responses and combos.
Again, do remember some players spend exorbitant amounts of time on this game memorizing and adapting muscle memory(that is a gamers life blood). Myself, I go into a practice against a lvl 0 bot just to warm up my hands, then to work on a new combo string for about 15-30 mins.


Ad mortem is and always was only confirmed from light parry or OOS parry.

Regarding the topic, i am surprised to see lack of PKs and Orochis. Every once in a while you will run into guy with garbage connection whos zone attacks come out instanteously with no animation where you simply cant react to it. Or warlord with instant headbutt. I personally find those more frustrating than any normal unblockables.
But thats more to blame on netcode where people with garbage internet benefit from it.

I didn't believe this was a thing until I caught a pair exactly PK/Orochi doing that.. And it was then I realized how important time snap was.

High-Horse
12-28-2017, 10:03 PM
If spam is hard to deal with, it just means you need to practice more. Spam is a noob-stomping tactic but mostly used by hyper-aggressive noobs to compensate for being unable to defend themselves. "Good offense is a good defense" and all that.

But if you drill yourself on the different heroes you have issues with, they become second nature to handle. It might not be fun to fight such one dimensional movesets, but it's not hard if you don't lose focus.

I think the problem stems from getting bored and frustrated countering the same thing over and over. That and ****ty network connections.

Knight_Raime
12-29-2017, 01:19 PM
Just to throw my hat in here, Raime is spot on with his assessment. Bear in mind that's not saying either of us are saying or aren't a good or even a great gamer, regarding for honor or any other game you play. A lot of the misconceptions posters on the forums have is that when we give advice or try and find the root of a problem, that we are being condescending or out right negating any work they may have put in. That's far from the case, I myself am and have always maintained that I'm probably a worse player than the bulk of active players on the forums. I try to use this as a bench mark for others. If I can do it, so could you? It doesn't always come off that way. But bear in mind, we aren't saying you haven't tried or aren't good enough, simply that what ever it is you -are- doing clearly isn't working, and you need to change up something to accommodate.

Also, I would like to suggest in addendum to bot practice, have a friend use a particular hero you don't do well and work on those specific problem moves. I've found even with bot practice you don't have near the controlled environment to really fine tune your practice. Friends can be that work around. I can now deflect valkyrie ranged closers consistently for instance. However, bot practice is great for muscle memory for conditional responses and combos.
Again, do remember some players spend exorbitant amounts of time on this game memorizing and adapting muscle memory(that is a gamers life blood). Myself, I go into a practice against a lvl 0 bot just to warm up my hands, then to work on a new combo string for about 15-30 mins.



I didn't believe this was a thing until I caught a pair exactly PK/Orochi doing that.. And it was then I realized how important time snap was.

Not to hijack your post but I believe the devs did mention awhile ago one of the bigger things they were working on was a proper practice mode. Where in you can make a bot behave a certain way so you can practice much better against specific things. We haven't really had word on it since it was mentioned. Which could mean it's been put on the back burner till other bigger things have been addressed.

Alustar.
12-29-2017, 09:51 PM
Not to hijack your post but I believe the devs did mention awhile ago one of the bigger things they were working on was a proper practice mode. Where in you can make a bot behave a certain way so you can practice much better against specific things. We haven't really had word on it since it was mentioned. Which could mean it's been put on the back burner till other bigger things have been addressed.

Dude, hijack away, that is amazing news, I can't believe I miss that!

UbiJurassic
12-30-2017, 03:02 AM
Dude, hijack away, that is amazing news, I can't believe I miss that!

Just to add to his comment, the mode was meant to release this season, but needed to be pushed back. It's still in active development though and we're looking to release it as soon as we are able.

Knight_Raime
12-30-2017, 04:19 AM
Just to add to his comment, the mode was meant to release this season, but needed to be pushed back. It's still in active development though and we're looking to release it as soon as we are able.

good to hear!

bananaflow2017
01-02-2018, 11:15 AM
Spamming is allways a thing in 4v4. But only in grp fight situations. Every character has got 1 or 2 moves making him effektive in grp fights. A shugoki will allways try to hug u, raider stampede etc. this allways works until the enemy targets u. Espacially stampede or the hug are usually used from outta screen and usually its to late to react.

Anarnam
01-02-2018, 11:31 AM
Well spam can be defined in couple of ways.

1. unblockables
2. zones (warden, PK, aramusha, shinobi, shaman etc)
3. infinite combo

Since unblockables have been moved here already I'll include in short the others.

I abuse my zone as aramusha. If my infinite combo doesn't work I just spam zone after zone. If they start blocking zone notoriously, I'm switching back to infinite combo. Aramusha is one big definition of spam. - and isn't such a great champ (on PC), especially on duels.

infinite combo - this is the spammiest and most FUN thing after getting revenge in 1v2 or 1v3 situation. Paired against average players I can easily win 1v3 situation with just spamming side/top/side/top/side/top. simple.