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View Full Version : TRACK IR vs. FREELOOK (Free Head Movement Tracking Software)



jjlooxgood
02-09-2004, 09:46 AM
I have tested both TrackIR and Freelook.
Of course paying $100 for TrackIR surely guarantees a better game play but I was wondering how would Freelook compete against TrackIR.

Guess what? Freelook is free! (as long as you own a webcam and other minor materials...like tapes, AC batteries etc).

And guess what? Freelook works just as well as TrackIR!!!!!!!!!
There are some meticulous manual settings you have to do but, hey, it's free, so I don't mind reading the manual.

But remind you, it is a little cumbersome but not difficult to set up Freelook.

Having said that, I am going to use TrackIR. Why? 'cause I was stupid enough to PAY FOR IT!!

Anyways, if you want to download Freelook, go to

http://freelook.org

So far, I have not found any problem with it in IL-2FB and Lock-On. If anyone else finds a problem, please post and lets share it.

----------------------------
Korean Girls Only IL-2 Squad.

77th "Mashi-Maro Love" *W__W*

jjlooxgood
02-09-2004, 09:46 AM
I have tested both TrackIR and Freelook.
Of course paying $100 for TrackIR surely guarantees a better game play but I was wondering how would Freelook compete against TrackIR.

Guess what? Freelook is free! (as long as you own a webcam and other minor materials...like tapes, AC batteries etc).

And guess what? Freelook works just as well as TrackIR!!!!!!!!!
There are some meticulous manual settings you have to do but, hey, it's free, so I don't mind reading the manual.

But remind you, it is a little cumbersome but not difficult to set up Freelook.

Having said that, I am going to use TrackIR. Why? 'cause I was stupid enough to PAY FOR IT!!

Anyways, if you want to download Freelook, go to

http://freelook.org

So far, I have not found any problem with it in IL-2FB and Lock-On. If anyone else finds a problem, please post and lets share it.

----------------------------
Korean Girls Only IL-2 Squad.

77th "Mashi-Maro Love" *W__W*

resev
02-09-2004, 09:59 AM
Thank you for the comparision, LG.

Freelook is bound to be a little more squirmish than TIR, but then aain, TIR is a dedicated device, while Freelook is a workaround.

Nevertheless, the cheaper the better, and TIR can't compete with Freelook on this point. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

I was long overdue for a good webcam, and this is a good reason for not beeing cheap about it.

Alltough the requirements are not high, i will nevethless try to find the best webcam possible, at the best price.

Right now, i'm aiming at a sweet little 60fps low res cam.

Thx.

http://mysite.freeserve.com/resev/images/2-picture2.gif?0.3524929147671928

Aaron_GT
02-09-2004, 10:22 AM
<p>I didn't ever get freelook to work adequately.
Certainly it is not very user friendly to set
up at the moment.
</p>
<p>
I found cam2pan better and
the latest version tracks very well on the
higher quality settings.
</p>
<p>Negative cam2pan points currently are:</p>
<ul>
<li>Not yet managed to configure it to allow
me to reliably look to the full rear positions
obtainable with hat or mouse. So some work
for me to do on sensitivity settings.</li>
<li>Seems to use up quite a bit of CPU power,
perhaps? Online at the weekend I was getting
25 fps with cam2pan off, 12 with it on, although I didn't test scientifically, so it may not
have been cam2pan.</li>
</ul>

Aaron_GT
02-09-2004, 10:22 AM
Hmmm - the board used to support html!

Inadaze
02-09-2004, 11:01 AM
I've been using freelook for a while and it took quite a bit of fiddling to get it right, but now its up and going I'm well happy with it.

Here's my freelook config and Il2.fl. It allows full range of motion and snaps back to centre. I'm trying to get a happy medium between sensitivity and range of head motion. I'm using Freelook 10cc and IL2FB 1.22.

You might have to set up the camera threshold and stuff. I'd suggest backing up your orignal config files before you try it incase it makes anything go apes***t.

It's important to have a key for freelooks reset bound to the same key that recentres the view in Il2. It makes recalibrating alot easier! There are forums at http://freelook.org/forum.php which get a little traffic. I've posted these profiles there already (under a different name http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif)


Salute All and happy head wiggling http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif~Inadaze

#IL2.fl
# Freelook Profile
mode = BOX

# deadzone in camera pixels
deadzonex = 12
deadzoney = 10
deadzone_speed = 0.01
softzone = 1
soften = 2

sensitivity = 0.1

maxx = 1350
maxyup = 900
maxydown = 600

xscale = 1.4
yscale = 1.5

# WARNING: the following variables are best defined from within the application

stick = 0
stick_button_enable = 6
stick_button_reset = 5

key_enable = -1
key_reset = -1

# controls how long (ms) the reset key will be held for
# if set to 0, key won't be pressed.
key_reset_wait = 0

#End fo Config
#-------------

#Freelook Config
# Freelook Configuration file

# video input device to use (default 0)
camera = 0

# camera threshold
thresh = 223

# frames per second (too high can cause malfunction)
fps = 40

# default tracking mode
trackingmode = 2

# smoothing
smoothing = 16.375

# size limits for marker exclusion
marker_minsize = 4
marker_maxsize = 300

# Controls how long (in frames) a button must be held down
# for it to become a hold-to-use
button_count = 10

selected_profile = il2.fl

#End of Config
#-------------

PriK
02-09-2004, 11:05 AM
You don't get something for nothing if you dig a little deeper you'll find that freelook solutions tend to use up CPU resources but they are a great way to get used to flying without reliance on padlock or hatswitch.

TIR will get cheaper the more people start realizing it's effectiveness much like starting with a cheap joystick and progressing to HOTAS. Using freelook programs are a great way to get a feeling for what it's like without making the monetary leap and the more people who use these solutions, the more developers will start implementing support for them in their games. A win/win really.

And before I get a rain of indignant replies, I have nothing (much) against padlock. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://charvel.acwos.com/chbanner.jpg

flyingskid2
02-09-2004, 11:37 AM
trying freelook was for me a no-cost (well, except for time) way to find out i like the mouse stick on my throttle better than head-tracking solutions.

to anyone getting seduced by trackIR, i suggest try freelook or (trial version of cam2pan) first. you might find out head-tracking is not for you, if so then you'll save yourself a hundred dollars.

adlabs6
02-09-2004, 11:53 AM
Cam2Pan and Freelook are quite good. I had them working well enough that I can't imagine TIR being any better.

My trouble was the same as always with head tracking though, I am the type who likes to bob and weave in the chair while I shoot. I guess I need to setup a enable/disable switch to use when I am aiming, but I've got other fish to fry at the moment.

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ptthome
02-09-2004, 12:09 PM
I've tried Freelook and Cam2pan

Both worked - Freelook was easier to set up but
seemed to work intermittently - sometimes I'd load into FB and it would work other times not
maby I missed something somewhere. Went back to cam2pan which is well bedded in. One useful extra on cam2pan is the separate tuning of the Y axis - as head movements are more limited in this axis.

I didn't check CPU and memory overhead on Freelook but - didn't notice a halving in FPS.
I did however check Cam2pan and the overhead was
negligable. I think it hits the graphics CPU hardest so if your card isn't mid to up market you may suffer problems - which I suspect affects all 3 systems.

With ATI8500 There was a lot of horizontal shearing on cockpit edges when moving around yr head. With NV5900 this dissapears.

Any of these systems dramaticaly help gameplay
if you are flying high realism settings.

One costs a lot more - which is why I haven't tried it

http://perso.club-internet.fr/ptthome/vulogo3.JPG

PriK
02-09-2004, 02:39 PM
pthome, tracking processing would not be performed on the video card's GPU. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Anyway, the one thing that detracts from using a freelook program is that it can be misleading for some people that try it and don't like it and think that TIR wouldn't be much better. The refresh rate is more important than one might think! Although not an exact analogy admittedly, try turning your monitor down to 60hz for a while and see how long it takes you to get an eyeache. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://charvel.acwos.com/chbanner.jpg

flyingskid2
02-09-2004, 02:46 PM
2 people on this thread don't like head-tracking. both didn't like it not because of eyeache or slow refresh rate, but because it forces you to sit still.

WWSensei
02-09-2004, 02:55 PM
Cam2Pan and Freelook both emulate mouse viewing. TIR does that and absolute mode. In absolute mode you can scale the reaction to whatever suits your preference so sitting perfectly still isn't that much of an issue.

TIR in mouselook mode isn't much better than cam2pan and freelook. TIR in absolute mode is a lot smoother and easier.

PriK
02-09-2004, 04:56 PM
It took me a while to get used to sitting still using TIR1 with IL2 and I almost gave it up because of constantly recentering and poor framerate performance. When FB came out with absolute mode I was amazed.

The biggest thing I couldn't do without is the adjustable deadzone so I don't have to hold perfectly still when firing and my neck thanks me for it. Also, I have a sensitivity curve that allows me to keep my view more "still" looking just off-centre from the deadzone middle and increases as I look over my shoulder (in-game perspective of course) for quick six checks while still being able to scan the skies on either side.

It's hard to explain to someone who hasn't experienced it.

http://charvel.acwos.com/chbanner.jpg

Interceptor_33
02-10-2004, 03:18 AM
i have a normal standart cam (old one)!!
i use it with the composite connection !!
its possible to use it with freelook ?!?! ..
i try it .. but it wont work .. dont know why ..

Lt.Davis
02-10-2004, 06:49 AM
Hi all, is this free look software are free? after i hear all your comment about this product, i decide to give it a try. I don't mind paying money USD9.95, but i don't have creadit card. I don't know how to pay, seem like they not accept paypal!!!

Speed is the KEY.

Inadaze
02-10-2004, 08:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Interceptor_33:
i have a normal standart cam (old one)!!
i use it with the composite connection !!
its possible to use it with freelook ?!?! ..
i try it .. but it wont work .. dont know why ..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I saw a post on the Freelook forum about the same thing. Sorry to give you bad news, but its unlikely that your camera will be fast enough. Serial connectors can't handle the same ammount of informtion as USB connectors. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif~Inadaze

Inadaze
02-10-2004, 08:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lt.Davis:
Hi all, is this free look software are free? after i hear all your comment about this product, i decide to give it a try. I don't mind paying money USD9.95, but i don't have creadit card. I don't know how to pay, seem like they not accept paypal!!!

Speed is the KEY.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Freelook is free. http://freelook.org

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif~Inadaze

Sturmtrooper
02-10-2004, 10:25 AM
Hmmmm...
Track IR vs. Freelook .
Well I've never used Freelook so I really can't say how it performs .
But I can say that Track IR2 ROCKS !!!!!!!
If you are broke with no money then I guess Freelook is the way to go .
For $110 U.S. Dollars you can't beat Track IR2.
It's worth every penny !!!
I think it's a safe bet to say :
"You pay for what you get".
Before TIR2 I used NewView .
It worked good .
I've never tried cam to pan or freelook .
Is Freelook as smooth as a mouse ?
TIR2 is.
Is Freelook easy to set up ?
TIR2 is .
Does Freelook use a lot of system resources ?
TIR2 doesn't .
Do yourself a favor , save your money and buy Track IR2 .
Save the digital camera for web-chat and family gatherings . http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://home.bellsouth.net/coDataImages/p/Groups/183/183586/pages/456377/untitled1.gif

Lt.Davis
02-10-2004, 10:26 AM
Well! thanks for the tips. I have try it, i can't use the latest a0010c version. a0010 is ok when doing conf.

But after conf, when i open up FB, it doesn't work. What did i do wrong. Am i need to conf another file?

Please give me some advise.

Thank you

Speed is the KEY.

ptthome
02-10-2004, 10:36 AM
Hi PriK,

Interesting

"Originally posted by PriK:
pthome, tracking processing would not be performed on the video card's GPU. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif"

Yes the tracking processing will be on the main CPU - thats the easy bit - but it will then throw a heavy workload at the vid card to translate that into the 3D world that flips over when you look ower your shoulder.


"The refresh rate is more important than one might think! Although not an exact analogy admittedly, try turning your monitor down to 60hz for a while and see how long it takes you to get an eyeache. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif"

Strangely enough I sit for hours in front of my
19" Iyamma and haven't bothered to move it up from 60Hz - it only gets wavy at over 1300 res - I must give it a try at raising abve 60

http://perso.club-internet.fr/ptthome/vulogo3.JPG

Airhead_777_AVG
02-10-2004, 10:48 AM
Quote: TIR in mouselook mode isn't much better than cam2pan and freelook. TIR in absolute mode is a lot smoother and easier.

I agree with WWSensei. If Freelook is equivilant to TIR mouse emulation, you are not getting an apples-to-apples comparison. The enhanced mode in TIR is head-and-sholders above mouse emulation. Mouse emulation for me is just no good.

http://777AVG.com/sigs/sig03.gif

Inadaze
02-10-2004, 10:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lt.Davis:
Well! thanks for the tips. I have try it, i can't use the latest a0010c version. a0010 is ok when doing conf.

But after conf, when i open up FB, it doesn't work. What did i do wrong. Am i need to conf another file?

Please give me some advise.

Thank you

Speed is the KEY.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Earlier in the thread I posted my config and Il2.fl for freelook. The Il2.fl file is stored by freelook in the profiles folder/ on my machine thats c:\program files\Freelook\profiles.

Are you turning free look on? Dumb question I know but it flummuxed me for a while. You need to set the keys to toggle freelook and reset it in the profiles. then toggle it to on.

When its going a red crosshair follows the dot around in the freelook screen and the mouse pointer should be moving in windows. Once it does that start Il2 and it should be ok.

If its a different problem could you try and explain in more detail?

Best of luck
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif~Inadaze

x6BL_Brando
02-10-2004, 11:08 AM
" I agree with WWSensei. If Freelook is equivilant to TIR mouse emulation, you are not getting an apples-to-apples comparison. The enhanced mode in TIR is head-and-sholders above mouse emulation. Mouse emulation for me is just no good."

Spot on! I'm still using TiR1 and it's useful as the HOTAS. Absolute mode is what makes TiR work well, immersion-wise, and I couldn't use mouse emulation either.

Quick question: Why on earth run an Iiyama @ 60Hz? I run 1024x768x32 @ 120Hz with vSync always on & the resulting view is very smooth. Seems like a waste of a good monitor.

jjlooxgood
02-10-2004, 03:34 PM
for some reason, Freelook works just as well as TIR on my computer.

If only I had a Virtual Reality...Anybody know where I can get a cheap VR?

----------------------------
Korean Girls Only IL-2 Squad.

77th "Mashi-Maro Love" *W__W*

adlabs6
02-10-2004, 05:52 PM
Above someone posted that they run their monitor at 60Hz. I used to run my 17" CRT at 60 Hz all the time, and never had any problems with flicker or headaches. Once I tried running it at 75Hz, and within minutes I was having problems. My eyes were blurred, and my head feeling pressure. I went back to 60HZ, and just disregared all the talk about 60Hz being bad. In fact, no one else who used that PC during those years ever complained about the refresh, flickers, or headaches.

Sorry to ge so far off topic, but I was just wondering if I was the only one to have this experience.

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TooCooL34
02-10-2004, 08:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jjlooxgood:
for some reason, Freelook works just as well as TIR on my computer.

If only I had a Virtual Reality...Anybody know where I can get a cheap VR?

----------------------------
Korean Girls Only IL-2 Squad.

77th "Mashi-Maro Love" *W__W*
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who are you? I never saw the name in Korean forums. Is it Loox?

Interceptor_33
02-10-2004, 08:41 PM
@Inadaze
hi..
hmm why its to slow .. hmmm..?!?!
the video of the cam is sending 50hz (50fps) to the tv-in (interlaced) ...its 25fps (progressive)

i dont have a webcam but its possible to capture more than 50 or 100 fps with a webcam in very low resolutions on full picture mode (progressive)?!?!..

can you give me the link to the one thread ?!?!
..

Inadaze
02-10-2004, 11:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Interceptor_33:
@Inadaze
hi..
hmm why its to slow .. hmmm..?!?!
the video of the cam is sending 50hz (50fps) to the tv-in (interlaced) ...its 25fps (progressive)

i dont have a webcam but its possible to capture more than 50 or 100 fps with a webcam in very low resolutions on full picture mode (progressive)?!?!..

can you give me the link to the one thread ?!?!
..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Howdy Interceptor

I've been trying to find out where I saw that post about older serial cams , but haven't been able to search it out.

If you do a post here - http://freelook.org/forum.php?startat=0 , Frenzon the creator of the program should be able to give you some help.

It might be worth trying to turn off autoexposure on the camera. If it's turned on it hits the camera frame rate alot.

Sorry I can't find that post! If I come across it I'll let you know.

Good Luck
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif~Inadaze

Inadaze
02-11-2004, 05:19 PM
Interceptor,

Here's that thread. Its a cpu issue with serial cameras that make it slow.
http://freelook.org/forum/143
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif~Inadze

RedDeth
02-11-2004, 05:23 PM
TRACK IR and FREELOOK are both cheats. if you cant use just a joystick then it aint you winning the fight. especially in fullreal where everyone else is flying normal.

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying. http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_120_1065509034.jpg

WWSensei
02-11-2004, 05:50 PM
"TRACK IR and FREELOOK are both cheats. if you cant use just a joystick then it aint you winning the fight. especially in fullreal where everyone else is flying normal."

That's the most pathetic thing I've ever heard. Just a joystick? Please. Grow up. I suppose anyone using rudder pedals and a throttle are also cheating?

Since when did "full real" suddenly mean I can't use my eyes to watch a target and use my neck to turn my head. Oh, I know "real pilots" use their thumb in real life right?

You obviously don't know a thing about either system. Learn first and then whine. Neither gives you any advantage over any other player as they simply replace mouselook--a feature available to all players at all times.

If you have to limit all your opponents to using just a joystick then you ain't winning the fight. especially in full real where where virtual jocks don't look to their hardware to make excuses for their lack of skill.

MrDalgof
02-19-2004, 05:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sturmtrooper:
I think it's a safe bet to say :
"You pay for what you get".
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Otherwise, it'd be stealing.


"Enjoy Every Sandwich" --Warren Zevon