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Erhanninja
12-20-2017, 06:21 PM
Isnít it a bit too much rewarding for such a simple and easy to do move? If you dodge shove you have GB risk and back to shove again after attack. If you donít dodge you get hit by the light. How can you dodge the attack but not block it? They say they want to break turtle meta but LW is turtle meta itself. Just block any attack shove and light attack. Free punish for no reason.

Saml84
12-20-2017, 06:25 PM
I said something like this before but most people and devs don't mind it apparently. People think he isn't that good but imo he is one of the best characters in the game in any game mode.

MassiveD.
12-20-2017, 06:28 PM
You guys talking about Lawbringer?

SwellChemosabe
12-20-2017, 06:30 PM
It sort of depends who you're up against really. sometimes they'll go for the shove guard break shove combo, other times they'll try to get the light out every time. As someone who plays berserker and highlander most days, i have two methods of dealing with this. Dodge the shove into a light attack/combo for berserker, or dodge back and light attack into taunt then caber toss, unblockable heavy or kick into unblockable heavy for highlander. (second one is all about faking out your opponent)

Saml84
12-20-2017, 06:31 PM
You guys talking about Lawbringer?
That's what I assumed.

Erhanninja
12-20-2017, 07:46 PM
It sort of depends who you're up against really. sometimes they'll go for the shove guard break shove combo, other times they'll try to get the light out every time. As someone who plays berserker and highlander most days, i have two methods of dealing with this. Dodge the shove into a light attack/combo for berserker, or dodge back and light attack into taunt then caber toss, unblockable heavy or kick into unblockable heavy for highlander. (second one is all about faking out your opponent)

Then they can just shove and wait for your side step attack and parry you. That combo is so fast you canít wait and see his move. So itís always a win win for LW

LW= law bringer

StrOf10kBabies
12-20-2017, 09:08 PM
I'm gonna assume that you are new fighting against Lawbringers. The shove is his only other viable opener besides guard breaking in 1v1's. Think of the Warlord's headbutt in a similar matter on how to counter it. You simply can dodge and you have a free opener on him. Since he doesn't have hyper armor during his shove, you can also attack him while he is doing the move as well. It's kind of pathetic how he was first introduced because in the trailer the announcer literally said "his armor is crafted with well guarded secret techniques" while he doesn't have hyper armor for any of his move sets. Meanwhile the Shugoki and Berserker get hyper armor for some of their moves.

SwellChemosabe
12-20-2017, 09:13 PM
The shove opens you up for one of two things to happen, a guard break or a light attack. the light attack can be dodged but dodging too early will give you up for a guard break. I try to avoid dodging until i see the attack indicator. There is one other strategy i usually save for duels or drawn out matches.

There's a name for it somewhere but basically it's the art of letting your opponent getting their hits on you so you can give them false confidence. While doing so, you learn what they prefer to use. Sure you're gonna lose health and be at a disadvantage as far as the HP is concerned but doing this allows you to develop an on the spot strategy for dealing with your opponent. This way you can see if they prefer to go for the guard break or the light attack and then from that point on respond accordingly.

bob333e
12-20-2017, 09:15 PM
There's a name for it somewhere but basically it's the art of letting your opponent getting their hits on you so you can give them false confidence. While doing so, you learn what they prefer to use. Sure you're gonna lose health and be at a disadvantage as far as the HP is concerned but doing this allows you to develop an on the spot strategy for dealing with your opponent. This way you can see if they prefer to go for the guard break or the light attack and then from that point on respond accordingly.

What he said.

It's ok to take hits, but always study your opponent. You might lose the first match, it's ok. More times than I can count, I've lost 2-0, then won 3 times in a row; because I've read my opponent in those two first matches.

This also usually leaves them salty.

Arekonator
12-20-2017, 10:47 PM
I'm gonna assume that you are new fighting against Lawbringers. The shove is his only other viable opener besides guard breaking in 1v1's. Think of the Warlord's headbutt in a similar matter on how to counter it. You simply can dodge and you have a free opener on him. Since he doesn't have hyper armor during his shove, you can also attack him while he is doing the move as well. It's kind of pathetic how he was first introduced because in the trailer the announcer literally said "his armor is crafted with well guarded secret techniques" while he doesn't have hyper armor for any of his move sets. Meanwhile the Shugoki and Berserker get hyper armor for some of their moves.No one ever is complaining about lawbringer dodge-shove from neutral, its one of the slowest attacks of this type and trivial to dodge. And its actually one of few moves in lawbriner arsenall that DOES have hyper armor and allows you to tank through incoming hit. Shove from neutral is more on the weaker side. Being slow as it is, it hardly can be considered viable opener-
Problem is you can shove after blocking any attack, and the resulting shove is guaranteed and inescapable (except few very specific edge cases). Its simply too much of a reward for just blocking. Only thing that makes it tolerable is the fact that the shove itself doesnt actuall guarantee anything, because posible follow ups can all be avoided, either through guessing right or just rolling away. As is, rolling away is the only sure way to avoid any damage from shove but its stamina extensive. Some say that its possible to avoid/counter by reaction, but i have yet to see anyone do that at least semi-consistently.

Illyrian_King
12-20-2017, 10:57 PM
Isn’t it a bit too much rewarding for such a simple and easy to do move? If you dodge shove you have GB risk and back to shove again after attack. If you don’t dodge you get hit by the light. How can you dodge the attack but not block it? They say they want to break turtle meta but LW is turtle meta itself. Just block any attack shove and light attack. Free punish for no reason.

Don't take it personal, but a person who writes the Lawbringer as "LW" isn't capable of judging the Lawbringer's kit at all.



Then they can just shove and wait for your side step attack and parry you. That combo is so fast you can’t wait and see his move. So it’s always a win win for LW

LW= law bringer

Just this as a simple argument: If the LB dodges without shove you can guardbreak him (punish for the LB), and if he goes the dodge with shove and you go for a dodge attack then the dodge attack of yours is ALWAYS FASTER (punish for the LB) and there is no time to parry before his slow shove animation ends.


Just one useless "nerf him, becuase I can't counter simple moves like shove" thread more ;b

The LB lacks in openers and if he hadn't shove he wouldn't be playable anymore in meta game, and I say that as a LB main since even before launch.

Erhanninja
12-21-2017, 01:03 AM
Don't take it personal, but a person who writes the Lawbringer as "LW" isn't capable of judging the Lawbringer's kit at all.




Just this as a simple argument: If the LB dodges without shove you can guardbreak him (punish for the LB), and if he goes the dodge with shove and you go for a dodge attack then the dodge attack of yours is ALWAYS FASTER (punish for the LB) and there is no time to parry before his slow shove animation ends.


Just one useless "nerf him, becuase I can't counter simple moves like shove" thread more ;b

The LB lacks in openers and if he hadn't shove he wouldn't be playable anymore in meta game, and I say that as a LB main since even before launch.

Itís a simple typo stuck in my mind my friend nothing to do with being incapable. So stop being biased. People discuss how to pronounce Shaman and most of them gets it wrong. It doesnít make them incapable of understanding her kit does it?

Illyrian_King
12-21-2017, 02:17 AM
It’s a simple typo stuck in my mind my friend nothing to do with being incapable. So stop being biased. People discuss how to pronounce Shaman and most of them gets it wrong. It doesn’t make them incapable of understanding her kit does it?

Mate just look at my statement: "Just this as a simple argument: If the LB dodges without shove you can guardbreak him (punish for the LB), and if he goes the dodge with shove and you go for a dodge attack then the dodge attack of yours is ALWAYS FASTER (punish for the LB) and there is no time to parry before his slow shove animation ends."

That's all you need to know about what you said at the very beginning ^^

Erhanninja
12-21-2017, 02:22 AM
Haha thanks

: If the LB dodges without shove you can guardbreak him (punish for the LB),

What do you mean ? If I dodge the shove I get a free GB? I donít understand.

Illyrian_King
12-21-2017, 02:40 PM
Haha thanks

: If the LB dodges without shove you can guardbreak him (punish for the LB),

What do you mean ? If I dodge the shove I get a free GB? I don’t understand.

You get a free gb if you dodge his shove or when an enemy LB just dodges without him doing a shove --> both is guaranted

Look: If your enemy (the LB) does a dodge shove --> the animation is pretty long and you can dodge attack him or dodge and gb him --> both works if you dodge his shove, because he is so slow and that gives you plenty of time
If your enemy just dodges without a shove --> simply gb him because it's always guaranted

In both ways you punish the Lawbringer, it just takes a little practice to develope the neccessary reflex for that

Charmzzz
12-21-2017, 02:45 PM
Dodge into Shove is 700ms
Shove on Block is guaranteed

Light after Shove is dodgeable and can be mixed up with a GB, but the time window for the Light is pretty small. If the LB does not use Light immediately after Shove he will go for a GB. I can react on a Light with an 70-80% success rate. If latency kicks in I will just eat the Light as getting GBed into Heavy / Impale / Wall Stagger will result in much more damage.

Devils-_-legacy
12-21-2017, 04:19 PM
If your an assassin (zerker) deflect gb wall they always rage quit for me after that and always stationed next to a wall use there advantage against them