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View Full Version : How certain character compositions make Dominion matches unplayable



MassiveD.
12-20-2017, 06:05 PM
Hi everyone,


So I just wanted to bring to attention how dominion games are shaping up recently match after match.

With the introduction of the new generation heroes that have much more favorable move-kits when compared to the original 12, the popularity of those characters grew immensely for obvious reasons, and dominion games have become a huge issue recently.

For example, the top tiered characters that you meet in every single game right now are:

1. Gladiator
2. Shaman
3. Peace Keeper

Now, a lot skill and success in dominion comes from being able to fight 1 on 2, one on 3, or even one on 4, and be able to do significant damage, or at least hold on till the team mate cavalry arrive to aid you.

Unfortunately, fighting against multiple opponents when you have 2 or more of the above top tier characters in a team, especially coordinating, it can become literally (not figuratively, literally) impossible.

Some examples:

1. 2 Gladiators toe poking you - toe poke attack has no indicator (was that intended btw by developers?) both in 1v1 and in 1v2 scenario. If you have 2 gladiators spamming toe stabs from different directions, you're very easily and very quickly screwed , because you can't dodge them all (especially with no indicator) and if they are positioned and certain angles you can't dodge them at all, not to mention if one is poking and the other one is GB'ing.

2. 1 Gladiator toe poking, 1 Peace Keeper zone feinting - very similar scenario like the 1st scenario, but even worse, because if you lock gladiator, you wont be able to react to Peace Keepers 400ms zone attack, and if you lock to Peace Keeper - not only will you still not be able to react to PK's 400ms zone attack, but you will also get toe poked by gladiator who's attack - again, you don't even see the indicator so you can't react to it accordingly.

3. Shaman going out of your view and using push pounce - I noticed A LOT of shamans abusing this, especially in 1v2 , they will run out of your view , and abuse the extremely long range + the fact that it has no indicator pounce attack to push you, while Gladiator toe pokes, or PK does zone attacks keeping you concentrated on them.

Not to mention that her tracking is still wonky and can do 90 degree turns if your dodge time is not exact, even tho Ubi said they would fix it...


I can go on with this, and I'm not even mentioning characters that you can throw in the mix like Shinobis who have 400ms (correct me if I'm wrong but it feels like 400ms) light attacks and with the recent HP increase can't even be killed if they don't want to by just jumping dodging and running away.


Don't get me wrong, these characters are perfectly fine (I guess) in 1v1 duel matches, and can certainly be defeated (even tho if PK super tanks and goes fishing for zone feints - good luck!) , when it comes to Dominion, doing 1on2 fights and especially if you are using a slower character like Shugoki, a lot of the time's you'll get ambushed by one of the above combo wombos that don't even require strong coordination, because it's intuitive to use your strongest / most annoying abilities in team fights, and they certainly do, and with the huge popularity that these characters have, you will encounter this over and over and over and over every single time you go to dominion.

So what tends to happen, you go in a 1v2 scenario with these characters, and you will get pin-pong'ed around from a flurry of unblockable, indicator-free, 400ms moves over and over for a bout 5 seconds and die horribly right there and then.


That being said, I don't know what a solution to this would be, if at all. The new heroes definitely outclass the original 12.

As a quick fix, perhaps Ubisoft should give us "Ban a hero" option kinda like in league of legends.

Maybe there should be some considering of reverting back to original 12, and work on them first, bring them up to speed, and then release the new heroes again.



I still love this game a lot, I played it since Beta, and I remember this game actually being so much fun in dominion.

But now, especially in season 3 and 4, you are just bored in duels and salty in dominion matches all the time.

SMH :confused:

Card1acArrest
12-20-2017, 06:16 PM
i totally disagreed with you YESTERDAY.
Today i AGREE!!

I played 5 hours yesterday and met rep 60-120 teams.
they TORE us apart.
JUST LIKE YOU DESCRIBE.!!

we needed 2 old classes to kill 1 Shaman.
only way to survive was to play PK!!
That went reasonably ok.

really depressing!! :(

MassiveD.
12-20-2017, 06:19 PM
i totally disagreed with you YESTERDAY.
Today i AGREE!!

I played 5 hours yesterday and met rep 60-120 teams.
they TORE us apart.
JUST LIKE YOU DESCRIBE.!!

we needed 2 old classes to kill 1 Shaman.
only way to survive was to play PK!!
That went reasonably ok.

really depressing!! :(

I play with 120+ rep teams every day recently, it's not really and issue if you lose and know why you lost, it's fine when you get ganked by 4 people that are not using one of the champions I mentioned, so at least you are perfectly aware of all the hits and indicators and it feels fine to mess up, because you learn something from it at least, but if people just gank you with a swarm of gladiator PK combo it's not only that you got f'd up , but also you are not left with anything to take away from the encounter, because nothing you could have physically done would have mattered.

That's the annoying bit, and that's what I have an issue with the most right now

CandleInTheDark
12-20-2017, 06:29 PM
In terms of the old guard characters,we know that several are in the process of motion capping, Eric said that the first batch to receive reworks would be the conqueror, kensei and berseker,also that there were others wanting looking at but outside those first three nothing had been prioritised in order to tell the community.

The problem, as you pointed out, is the same the centurion had for a long while in that these characters are fine or fine-ish in 1v1 and the inherent balancing act in that is how do you fix them in 4v4 without breaking them in 1v1 considering while the devs would like to see more 4v4 tournaments, they don't consider any one mode their main priority? Characters good at crowd control or being general annoyances have always been a hassle in 4v4, it is just that until those reworks come the newer characters seem to be better at it.

MassiveD.
12-20-2017, 06:31 PM
In terms of the old guard characters,we know that several are in the process of motion capping, Eric said that the first batch to receive reworks would be the conqueror, kensei and berseker,also that there were others wanting looking at but outside those first three nothing had been prioritised in order to tell the community.

The problem, as you pointed out, is the same the centurion had for a long while in that these characters are fine or fine-ish in 1v1 and the inherent balancing act in that is how do you fix them in 4v4 without breaking them in 1v1 considering while the devs would like to see more 4v4 tournaments, they don't consider any one mode their main priority? Characters good at crowd control or being general annoyances have always been a hassle in 4v4, it is just that until those reworks come the newer characters seem to be better at it.

Giving Gladiator an indicator for his toe poke , would be A MAJOR leap in the right direction, would honestly fix half the problem.

Would that really be back-breaking for gladiator? If toe poke had an indicator?

And do characters really need to have 400ms attacks?


I mean, some of us don't have Adderall prescriptions... :(

CandleInTheDark
12-20-2017, 06:35 PM
Giving Gladiator an indicator for his toe poke , would be A MAJOR leap in the right direction, would honestly fix half the problem.

Would that really be back-breaking for gladiator? If toe poke had an indicator?

In terms of that move, I would say probably not, or if the devs want to keep it that way in 1v1 since it is telegraphed in other ways when you are focussing on him, have some kind of indicator for when any attack including any that wouldn't normally have an indicator is coming from an enemy you are not locked on to.

MassiveD.
12-20-2017, 06:37 PM
In terms of that move, I would say probably not, or if the devs want to keep it that way in 1v1 since it is telegraphed in other ways when you are focussing on him, have some kind of indicator for when any attack including any that wouldn't normally have an indicator is coming from an enemy you are not locked on to.

Agreed, btw I edited my previous post a bit to include the question for 400ms attacks. Thoughts?

CandleInTheDark
12-20-2017, 06:41 PM
Agreed, btw I edited my previous post a bit to include the question for 400ms attacks. Thoughts?

You were around when I first came here, I've been anti light spam since I came here when I solely used peacekeeper and I am still in the same mind now I use a wide range of characters. I am kind of in two thoughts on it since the dedicated servers open test in that a lot more lights got parried in that test so some of it may be lag that comes with P2P but I don't think characters would suffer those attacks being a little slower and having to use feints or the rest of their kit so overall I would still rather they get toned down.

One thing I did think of with the toe stab as to why it might not have an indicator is it isn't like you can press down to block it and it might be confusing for the opponent, they would need something different that suggested dodge or in the case of unblockable, parry is an option but not a regular block.

MassiveD.
12-20-2017, 06:45 PM
You were around when I first came here, I've been anti light spam since I came here when I solely used peacekeeper and I am still in the same mind now I use a wide range of characters. I am kind of in two thoughts on it since the dedicated servers open test in that a lot more lights got parried in that test so some of it may be lag that comes with P2P but I don't think characters would suffer those attacks being a little slower and having to use feints or the rest of their kit so overall I would still rather they get toned down.

One thing I did think of with the toe stab as to why it might not have an indicator is it isn't like you can press down to block it and it might be confusing for the opponent, they would need something different that suggested dodge or in the case of unblockable, parry is an option but not a regular block.

There isn't even an "unblockable indicator" if a gladiator is attacking you and you're not locked on to him tho :confused:

And I read somewhere, that humans have an average reaction time of about 300ms to visual stimulus, so again, if you're not on reaction enhancing drugs, 100ms to move your finger away from a stick and press a button doesn't really seem like a lot of time :confused:

And it certainly feels that way, like you have enough time to see the attack, but by the time you finished moving your finger you are already hit with it, so

Devils-_-legacy
12-20-2017, 06:51 PM
Tbf dominon has always been a cluster **** of gank but the chaos can be fun others jut makes you want smash your controller I don't think it will ever change

MassiveD.
12-20-2017, 06:53 PM
Tbf dominon has always been a cluster **** of gank but the chaos can be fun others jut makes you want smash your controller I don't think it will ever change

The cluster f**** use to be very manageable before season 3 and 4 >_<

Devils-_-legacy
12-20-2017, 06:57 PM
I'd say the gank got worse and worse every season after revenge was nurfed and I highly dought it will change without a separate game que for singles and premades

CandleInTheDark
12-20-2017, 07:10 PM
There isn't even an "unblockable indicator" if a gladiator is attacking you and you're not locked on to him tho :confused:

And I read somewhere, that humans have an average reaction time of about 300ms to visual stimulus, so again, if you're not on reaction enhancing drugs, 100ms to move your finger away from a stick and press a button doesn't really seem like a lot of time :confused:

And it certainly feels that way, like you have enough time to see the attack, but by the time you finished moving your finger you are already hit with it, so

Yeah I definitely think there could do with being something that gives you some kind of attack indicator when it is coming from out of immediate view.

As I said I wouldn't be adverse to a slow down, while it is possible it is probably on the edge of being possible for anyone not top tier.

Vakris_One
12-20-2017, 07:20 PM
The Gladiator doesn't show an indicator for toe stab even in a 1v1 if I am recalling correctly. Because that move is like a push attack - it cannot be blocked or parried only dodged. Giving it an indicator would mean giving everyone who can do a kick or shove move an indicator as well.

MassiveD.
12-20-2017, 07:23 PM
The Gladiator doesn't show an indicator for toe stab even in a 1v1 if I am recalling correctly. Because that move is like a push attack - it cannot be blocked or parried only dodged. Giving it an indicator would mean giving everyone who can do a kick or shove move an indicator as well.

good point, all those attacks should have an indicator, especially in dominion, especially the gladiator because his does damage

MassiveD.
12-20-2017, 11:13 PM
bump

LordRockinghamm
12-20-2017, 11:36 PM
Left a match of tribute this morning because every time i spawned in id get ganked by a musha and a zerker. I was dead literally in three seconds every time with revenge nowhere in sight. It was pointless to even try to fight.

MassiveD.
12-20-2017, 11:58 PM
Left a match of tribute this morning because every time i spawned in id get ganked by a musha and a zerker. I was dead literally in three seconds every time with revenge nowhere in sight. It was pointless to even try to fight.

Ah I see what you mean, both heroes must have been feint light spamming.

Zerker actually is lowkey overpowered with his cancels into lights

Erhanninja
12-21-2017, 01:52 AM
I agree with your points. I just played against 4 shinobis. Itís madness. You canít see whatís happening constant kicks everywhere. It takes your stamina as well. Or 4 cents or Law bringers. Also with shaman constant head butts staggering you or unblockables.

People think itís funny to do that. Absolute shame on them. They ruin the game

MassiveD.
12-21-2017, 03:48 PM
Any chance for a response from officials?

Charmzzz
12-21-2017, 04:19 PM
Uhm, I guess you havent faced a Squad of Raiders / Lawbringers with a Nobushi and a Zerker / Shaman yet. Raiders / Lawbringers will spam Stampede / Impale while Zerker or Shaman are free hitting their hardest heavies, Nobushi insta-clears Minion point and shows up in group-fights to spam zone / sidewinder.

Teams consisting only of Assassins (like your List shows) are getting annihilated by this because they have no constant guard to protect from being impaled all the time and they will get hit by Nobushi in group-fights alot of times from her zone / sidewinder spam.

Devils-_-legacy
12-21-2017, 04:21 PM
This ^ I hate premades that run around for granted damage