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View Full Version : My single |major| gripe with FB (>PICS<)



mpsc00
06-16-2004, 05:18 AM
First of all, I want to point out, that this is by no means intended as a whine, an "ARE YOU STUPID OR WHA'???" post or to be derogatory towards 1C & CO. It is intended as a remark to draw the attention towards a simple yet very - in my opinion - important aspect of this - and any - sim : The prop disc. In all but one game representing the aspect of flight, the propdisc is created as a flat disc giving no volume/thickness to the propeller in motion in a side view. The only game, I've seen giving a sense of 'reality' to the spinning prop, is B17-II released several years ago.
http://www.photodump.com/direct/mpsc00/B17II.jpg
For me, rotating the view and seeing the moving propdisc as more than 'just' a flat disc, really added to the immersion factor ... And then seeing the propdisc in FB as a flat disc really kills the immersion - for me, that is...
http://www.photodump.com/direct/mpsc00/FB_B17.jpg
The modellers of the aircrafts in FB obviously have been aware of this, since e.g. the Bf-109 propdisc is represented with angled discs.
http://www.photodump.com/direct/mpsc00/FB_bf109.jpg
It's just a shame to see the big M.F. P47 driven through the air by a scrawny lookin' prop!
http://www.photodump.com/direct/mpsc00/FB_P47.jpg

I do not know, how the effect in B17-II is created - other than the 3d-mesh creation - probably a clever use of Alpha-mapping?

Of course, this is only a biased opinion, but I just wanted to express a personal wish for the inclusion of 'fat props' in the upcomming BOB - as it would be a shame to still have flat (and to use a popular expression) 'unrealistic' looking propdiscs... And of course also to see, whether or not I'm the only one having a ***** for fat props http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (pardon my french http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)
As mentioned, I hope this doesn't come out as a whine etc... I hope, I've conveyed my point in a fairly diplimatic way http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thanks for the attention - hope I didn't waste your time! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Cheers...

P.S. I couldn't find my copy of B17-II, so I could only show one example of the prop in game - but I'm sure, that there are someone out there, who get my point? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

P.P.S. Please forgive me for at times not using correct terms or terminology - I'm just a dane http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4081/Absentminded4.jpg

mpsc00
06-16-2004, 05:18 AM
First of all, I want to point out, that this is by no means intended as a whine, an "ARE YOU STUPID OR WHA'???" post or to be derogatory towards 1C & CO. It is intended as a remark to draw the attention towards a simple yet very - in my opinion - important aspect of this - and any - sim : The prop disc. In all but one game representing the aspect of flight, the propdisc is created as a flat disc giving no volume/thickness to the propeller in motion in a side view. The only game, I've seen giving a sense of 'reality' to the spinning prop, is B17-II released several years ago.
http://www.photodump.com/direct/mpsc00/B17II.jpg
For me, rotating the view and seeing the moving propdisc as more than 'just' a flat disc, really added to the immersion factor ... And then seeing the propdisc in FB as a flat disc really kills the immersion - for me, that is...
http://www.photodump.com/direct/mpsc00/FB_B17.jpg
The modellers of the aircrafts in FB obviously have been aware of this, since e.g. the Bf-109 propdisc is represented with angled discs.
http://www.photodump.com/direct/mpsc00/FB_bf109.jpg
It's just a shame to see the big M.F. P47 driven through the air by a scrawny lookin' prop!
http://www.photodump.com/direct/mpsc00/FB_P47.jpg

I do not know, how the effect in B17-II is created - other than the 3d-mesh creation - probably a clever use of Alpha-mapping?

Of course, this is only a biased opinion, but I just wanted to express a personal wish for the inclusion of 'fat props' in the upcomming BOB - as it would be a shame to still have flat (and to use a popular expression) 'unrealistic' looking propdiscs... And of course also to see, whether or not I'm the only one having a ***** for fat props http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (pardon my french http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)
As mentioned, I hope this doesn't come out as a whine etc... I hope, I've conveyed my point in a fairly diplimatic way http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thanks for the attention - hope I didn't waste your time! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Cheers...

P.S. I couldn't find my copy of B17-II, so I could only show one example of the prop in game - but I'm sure, that there are someone out there, who get my point? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

P.P.S. Please forgive me for at times not using correct terms or terminology - I'm just a dane http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4081/Absentminded4.jpg

Kuikueg
06-16-2004, 05:24 AM
I am absolutely with you, mate.

Kuikueg


http://server5.uploadit.org/files2/311203-Gaviota.jpg

Slush69
06-16-2004, 05:47 AM
OMG! I will immediately erase FB from my drive!

/slush

http://www.wilcks.dk/lort/Eurotrolls.gif

NegativeGee
06-16-2004, 05:51 AM
The superfat engine cowls of the B-17 was an immersion killer for me in The Mighty Eighth http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Seriously, there are more pressing issues. For example, they still haven't fixed the prop disc on the Hayate's so they have four blades and not three http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - G√ľnther Rall

http://www.invoman.com/images/tali_with_hands.jpg

Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!

LEXX_Luthor
06-16-2004, 06:27 AM
Fly the rocket plane http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

There, no more immersion killer


__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Zayets
06-16-2004, 06:32 AM
Hmmm. I want birds! Lotta birds, I think the lack of birds in this game is an immersion killer.

Zayets out

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-sigIAR.jpg

SeaFireLIV
06-16-2004, 06:33 AM
What?

Well, I think I`ve nearly seen it all now. How can this one almost unnoticable element be an immersion killer?

There are far more obvoius problems that would kill the immersion for me.

I continue to be amazed by how microcosmic these complaints appear to get.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/EAas1.jpg
Time for a cuppa.

AHGremlin
06-16-2004, 06:36 AM
I'd hardly call it an 'immersion killer'. Its just eye candy. Personally I am far for interested in the flight dynamics. Anyway this is an air combat sim, and when I'm doind 'air combat' I dont tend to look at the prop too muchhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. I'd say its more of a 'Would be nice to have' rather than a show stopper.

&lt;S&gt;

&lt;S&gt;

Gremlin
http://firebirds.2ndtaf.org.uk/images/56th_crest.gif

LEXX_Luthor
06-16-2004, 06:37 AM
You know, the spinning props in the first pic do look good, very good, but for this to be immersion killer means something is lacking in the sim, and I am guessing lack of easily generated large scale frontline warfare simulation--a much larger war beyond what we can see just outside the cockpit.


__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Breeze147
06-16-2004, 06:39 AM
I don't like the way some of the pilots wear ties. I don't care if they did or not, I don't like it.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap16.jpg

SeaFireLIV
06-16-2004, 06:39 AM
He`s probably just fishing.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/EAas1.jpg
Time for a cuppa.

LEXX_Luthor
06-16-2004, 06:44 AM
or Patch Fever.

But the dude/dudette made some good pics, spent some time, and I do like the props in the first pic. Awsum!

You know, I just thought....this is posted in GD and not spammed in the Recovery Room, so its not a bad topic, in fact I am getting to like those props in the first pic. At worst, we have a free thread we can hijack.


__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Zayets
06-16-2004, 06:46 AM
You know what is ugly,I mean b*tt ugly in FB?
That green.Is everywhere, Crimeea, Hungary,Smolensk,Ukraine,Pacific. Is like I am a cow dreaming I fly over huge grass spaces. Not like I have anything with the cows. In fact I find them funny.

Zayets out

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-sigIAR.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
06-16-2004, 06:55 AM
The FB world is green steppe.

mmm, SeaFire this looks interesting from sinhq (or is it IceFire who posts alot about AI I should know by now)
-- its the Brit plane avatars that confuse me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Nixer6
posted 06-15-2004 20:33

Some quick observations, offline mission(s) I made

.50 cal's are better, NOT uber

AI got brighter

when hit they try to break off and go home

I haven't seen anybody fly into a mountain yet

And their tail warning radar has been dumbed down, or turned off.

Just been playing around with it. Cool stuff

~ http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=98;t=010694
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

hughlb2
06-16-2004, 07:07 AM
you think the props are bad in FB? not compared to MFS2, now thats flat!http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

mpsc00
06-16-2004, 07:19 AM
Ok, I see you're totally missing my point... But fair enough http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4081/Absentminded4.jpg

SeaFireLIV
06-16-2004, 07:24 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
The FB world is green steppe.

mmm, SeaFire this looks interesting from sinhq (or is it IceFire who posts alot about AI I should know by now)
-- its the Brit plane avatars that confuse me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
[QUOTE]
Nixer6
posted 06-15-2004 20:33

Some quick observations, offline mission(s) I made

.50 cal's are better, NOT uber

AI got brighter

when hit they try to break off and go home

I haven't seen anybody fly into a mountain yet

And their tail warning radar has been dumbed down, or turned off.

Just been playing around with it. Cool stuff

~ QUOTE]

1.Well, dunno about the .50s. Never much bothered me, I jump and fight, if I can shoot them down effectively (and I did) what`s the problem?

2.Dunno if the AI`s brighter. Although it`s pretty good with 2.1 imho. Perhaps he means that they don`t shoot through you to get enemy. 2.2 Readme mentions that AI checks for Friendly fire , but they did that in 2.1 anyway! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

3. When hit they go home? What? With the 1st bullet? Anywhere? AI goes home anyway in 2.1, when quite badly damaged or out numbered. Hmm. Need more details.

4.Not fly into a Mountain? Well that needs extensive testing on several maps with several planes (like the I16). But great if true.

5. And their tail warning radar has been dumbed down, or turned off. If this is true, great, but I hope they don`t just sit there if they knew about you earlier.

Just not enough details, or testing to really convince me of anything, I`m afraid... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/EAas1.jpg
Time for a cuppa.

mpsc00
06-16-2004, 07:24 AM
...but allow me to elaborate - perhaps 'immersion killer' is the wrong word, and I do know, that there ARE more pressing matters that needs attention - but I'm just trying to bring forward a point, which I believe to be valid... I've stated, that this is a PERSONAL gripe with FB - eyecandy or not - but it DOES break the illusion, that this is 'real planes' flying an' fighting - and not 'just' computergenerated images on a screen...
If you do not agree with me, that's fine an' dandy... but I do NOT deserve to be put down like in some of the posts in this thread! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif
Cheers...

Edit &gt;
He`s probably just fishing.
SeaFireLIV...

And I'm NOT fishing!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4081/Absentminded4.jpg

-HH- Beebop
06-16-2004, 07:35 AM
mpsc00;

Relax. Some of us are a bit "serious" sometimes. You'll get used to it. Don't take it personally.
Given that, with all the things that could be improved, this is fairly low in priority. I understand that this is a "personal gripe" with you but I agree that "fat props" would be nice.

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9334/Image6.jpg
Previously known as Beebop_54

SeaFireLIV
06-16-2004, 07:38 AM
ok, didn`t mean to upset you. You seem like you really are serious. So you`re not fishing.

Still not a problem of priority though.

Zayets
06-16-2004, 07:39 AM
And how about my birds?And that green? Are they on priorities list?

Zayets out

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-sigIAR.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
06-16-2004, 07:43 AM
And a very good point too mpsc00, Thank You! Informative screenshots.

It took a little while and re~thinking before I started to see your point.

Yes, immersion killer was a bit strong--it really stood out, and of course we skip over reading "- for me, that is..." http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

IV|JG51Flatspin
06-16-2004, 07:56 AM
I honestly can't tell the difference.

But tell me, what does zipping around in external views do for creating the feeling you are in a real airplane?

http://img73.photobucket.com/albums/v222/Flatspin/elitelogo.jpg
=Flatspin=
=Elite=XO=Bomber Commander
The Wings of Freedom (http://www.elitepx.com)

Breeze147
06-16-2004, 07:56 AM
So what about the pilots and the ties? Like so many other complaints, will this be ignored by the devs? Yeah, fat props, real important, I want to get rid of the ties. I would have refused to wear one. "Yes, Colonel Ivan Ivanovsky. Put me in flying crate. I will kill Nazis until my last breath. But I will not wear fooking tie."

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap16.jpg

mpsc00
06-16-2004, 08:01 AM
Alrigthy then - back on track here http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I know, that it is a 'how low can you go' priority, but it is just a wish for the comming BOB, which would really make me wet myself http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif But of course, there are more serious matters, that needs attention beforehand, but still would be nice though! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif
Just looks great in B17-II http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Cheers...

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4081/Absentminded4.jpg

mpsc00
06-16-2004, 08:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elite_Flatspin:
I honestly can't tell the difference.

But tell me, what does zipping around in external views do for creating the feeling you are in a real airplane?

=Flatspin=
_=Elite=XO=Bomber Commander_
http://www.elitepx.com<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm - good point! You never just use the external views acting as an 'observer' - just following the action and looking at the aircrafts? Well, I do - and the props just stand out on the otherwise great models..
And if I could find that bloody gamedisc, I would take some more pictures - the first I posted isn't the best, but it was the only one, I had!
Cheers...

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4081/Absentminded4.jpg

Tully__
06-16-2004, 08:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Breeze147:
So what about the pilots and the ties? Like so many other complaints, will this be ignored by the devs? Yeah, fat props, real important, I want to get rid of the ties. I would have refused to wear one. "Yes, Colonel Ivan Ivanovsky. Put me in flying crate. I will kill Nazis until my last breath. But I will not wear fooking tie."

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap16.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mildly amusing the first time, old the second time, not the topic of this thread http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

=================================================


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IL2 Forums Moderator
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Salut
Tully

mpsc00
06-16-2004, 08:20 AM
Oh, and just one more thing - the planemodels are made to be 'authentic' representations of the real thing, the prop is part of this illusion - have you ever seen a propdriven aircraft with a 5 mm thick propeller? (sideview, that is) Well, I havn't - I would just think, that given the time spent on making the planemodels look like their real life counterparts, why not also the prop?
Cheers...

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4081/Absentminded4.jpg

Obi_Kwiet
06-16-2004, 08:22 AM
Yes. I especilly hate the double angled ones. This would be nice to have if it's not too much trouble, and it's a must for BoB. Still, Oleg has been very nice to us with this latest patch, he's fixed the .50's, and improved the muzzle flashes! They look much better now. They look like quick flashes, and not flamethrowers, and they're much smaller. I can see when firing out of the 110 now! Yay for Oleg!

Monson74
06-16-2004, 08:30 AM
mpsc00, perhaps you should post this in ORR & see if they'll address this (if they've got the time). It's not a huge flaw but you do have a point there & there's nothing wrong in contributing in making the sim better. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

S!

Monson


"So when Diogenes perceived that he was greatly excited and quite keyed up in mind with expectancy, he toyed with him and pulled him about in the hope that somehow he might be moved from his pride and thirst for glory and be able to sober up a little. For he noticed that at one time he was delighted, and at another grieved at the same thing, and that his soul was as unsettled as the weather at the solstices when both rain and sunshine come from the very same source."

(Dio Chrysostom "Discourse" 4.77-78)

Breeze147
06-16-2004, 08:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tully__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Breeze147:
So what about the pilots and the ties? Like so many other complaints, will this be ignored by the devs? Yeah, fat props, real important, I want to get rid of the ties. I would have refused to wear one. "Yes, Colonel Ivan Ivanovsky. Put me in flying crate. I will kill Nazis until my last breath. But I will not wear fooking tie."

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap16.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mildly amusing the first time, old the second time, not the topic of this thread http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

=================================================


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_IL2 Forums Moderator_
http://www.ubi.com/US/Info/TermsOfUse.htm
http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/fb.zip

Salut
Tully<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jeez, I am truly sorry. Nothing more from me except technical dope, helps and fixes. Sorry. I actually thought that the author of this thread was being facetious (sp?). Same with the patch threads. It took 2 days for me to catch on that there actually was a patch coming out. There is nothing like a mod telling you that you are not funny to take the wind out of your sails. Only thing worse is running out of Viagra. Sorry. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap16.jpg

mpsc00
06-16-2004, 09:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Monson74:
mpsc00, perhaps you should post this in ORR & see if they'll address this (if they've got the time). It's not a huge flaw but you do have a point there & there's nothing wrong in contributing in making the sim better. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

S!

Monson
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I thought of that - just wanted to see, whether or not there was any reason for doing so... If anyone besides me have had the same thoughts on this matter, I mean! I'll mix up a bag of lunch and head on out to the ORR later - and probably making a better worded post, so I don't get hunted down and beaten by the pack again http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (no offense http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif)

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4081/Absentminded4.jpg

Indianer.
06-16-2004, 09:39 AM
MPSC......re-arrange this phrase


Go get job a

http://www.fighter-collection.com/film/img/dark_blue_world.jpg

"Wer auf die preussische Fahne schwort, hat nichts mehr, was ihm selber gehort"

mpsc00
06-16-2004, 09:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Indianer.:
MPSC......re-arrange this phrase


Go get job a

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, what the hell was that one for? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4081/Absentminded4.jpg

Philipscdrw
06-16-2004, 09:59 AM
Sorry MPSC00, you seem to have drawn the attention of all the idiots and semi-literate people on this board. You have a valid point.

To all the brainfarters: he said he wants 3D propellor disks in BoB; not as a fix to FB. That would be too much hassle at this late stage.

PhilipsCDRw

"Nietzsche is dead." - God.

View Cpt. Eric Brown's review of FB here (http://www.aerosociety.com/raes/news/SimReview.pdf) and discuss it here. (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=309109534&r=875101634#875101634)

mpsc00
06-16-2004, 10:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Philipscdrw:
Sorry MPSC00, you seem to have drawn the attention of all the idiots and semi-literate people on this board. You have a valid point.

To all the brainfarters: he said he wants 3D propellor disks in BoB; __not__ as a fix to FB. That would be too much hassle at this late stage.

PhilipsCDRw
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4081/Absentminded4.jpg

Philipscdrw
06-16-2004, 10:18 AM
You said that you're Danish, and the Danes have voted against the EU in several referendums, and the Danish government actually plays by the rules and gives referendums on important issues, like the future of your nationality. Therefore, respect to Denmark!

PhilipsCDRw

"Nietzsche is dead." - God.

View Cpt. Eric Brown's review of FB here (http://www.aerosociety.com/raes/news/SimReview.pdf) and discuss it here. (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=309109534&r=875101634#875101634)

-HH-Dubbo
06-16-2004, 10:23 AM
You know you guys....... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Do some of you even read what people write here, or do you just scan the title and then comment? Or worse, do you just get on the bandwagon following the gist of one or 2 negative responses?

I gotta ask
"Why are you jumping all over mpsc00?"

He brings up a good point and even supplies pictures with it. He is also careful to point out it is not a whine, just an observation.

2nd response out to him is sarcastic and someone later even suggests he gets a job. Geez people!! And he's not even asking for a fix for this game, only that the developers look at it for BoB.

Some things I've seen suggested/observed on this forum before have certainly been esoteric to the point of being absurd. This is not one of them.

It's the sum of all the little things that make this game great. From the rolling pencil to the great looking water to head shake and damage models. I like the fat props and applaud mpsc00's original post.


http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/nightschpanker/crashoz.jpg
Kermit the Frog is actually a south paw.

[This message was edited by HH Dubbo on Wed June 16 2004 at 12:05 PM.]

Snuffy_Hadden
06-16-2004, 10:52 AM
Kind of hard to fly with eagles when you're flocked with turkeys.

I too have noticed this "flaw" and thought that maybe it was only me that had the problem, but obviously not. And I concur, that with the amount of verbage about how precise this game is graphically and etc., that prop discs should look like spinning props.

I also have B-17II and fly it regularly and shake my head in pity when I hear things from 1C and company about what can or can not be done when its all be done as it should be in this game that is close to 6 years old now.

:salute:

Willi_Wombat
06-16-2004, 10:56 AM
mpsc00,

No, no, there will always be the prescribed number of insensitive, immature, and ignorant people responding to member's posts. You don't need to wait for those folks to grow up. That will never happen. What you need mpsc00 is a thicker skin.

You think you have a good idea? You want to share that idea with the forum? Then do it! Toss out the garbage and dig for the gold and you and the forum will grow.

Toughen up, dude!
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WW

mpsc00
06-16-2004, 11:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Willi_Wombat:

Toughen up, dude!
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WW<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe, I'll try http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Good to see, that this kind of support is actually obtainable on these boards - my hat's off to all of you... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif (closest thing I could get to a hat!http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)
And to the rest of you - cheers, hope you had your fun! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif
Cheers...

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4081/Absentminded4.jpg

RCAF_Hawk2
06-16-2004, 01:02 PM
I have never noticed it till since you brought it up .which I mostly play full real so the only time I get a good look at props is at my wing mans .Now I notice it every time I look over. So I dont look at him any more lol hmmm I might have to get seafire to let me "borrow" the chick in his last painting so Ill have a reason to pay attention to my wing man errr wing woman again. S~ and good luck

&lt;BR&gt;&lt;BR&gt;&lt;IMG SRC="http://www16.brinkster.com/hawkspage/hawkssig.jpg"&gt;&lt;BR&gt;Your not getting my buffalo wings &lt;BR&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/td&gt;

HH Quazi
06-16-2004, 01:07 PM
Great observation. I've noticed this too. Never quite thought of posting it in ORR to so changes might be made. You should do so if you haven't already. It's all the little things that make 1C's games awesome. Good post sir!

http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/nightschpanker/QuasiPOWsmall.jpg

Monson74
06-16-2004, 01:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Philipscdrw:
You said that you're Danish, and the Danes have voted against the EU in several referendums, and the Danish government actually plays by the rules and gives referendums on important issues, like the future of your nationality. Therefore, respect to Denmark!

PhilipsCDRw



"Nietzsche is dead." - God.

View Cpt. Eric Brown's review of FB http://www.aerosociety.com/raes/news/SimReview.pdf and discuss it http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=309109534&r=875101634#875101634<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Eh?

S!

Monson


"So when Diogenes perceived that he was greatly excited and quite keyed up in mind with expectancy, he toyed with him and pulled him about in the hope that somehow he might be moved from his pride and thirst for glory and be able to sober up a little. For he noticed that at one time he was delighted, and at another grieved at the same thing, and that his soul was as unsettled as the weather at the solstices when both rain and sunshine come from the very same source."

(Dio Chrysostom "Discourse" 4.77-78)

x__CRASH__x
06-16-2004, 01:45 PM
I'm not even going to read the rest of this thread. This has got to be the single most idiotic complaint I have ever read about FB. 'Immersion Killer'? You have expectations much to high to fulfill in a video game. I fly for a living on a Turboprop aircraft. The prop is constently changing pitch, and therefore thickness. To model such a small detail would take way too much time to be worth it. The prop is there, it spins. Looks good.

You seriously need to consider your goals from this game if immersion for you is ruined by a prop.

Ghost Skies. A Premier IL2FB Dogfight League. (http://www.ghostskies.com)
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/crash2.gif (http://www.ghostskies.com/)
CWoS FB/PF forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum)

Zayets
06-16-2004, 01:51 PM
This is simply unbelieveble!
At first I thought this thread is a joke and treated it accordingly.But I see some people are taking this stuff to seriously.And this kinda worries me. But fine,want a 3d spinning prop pattern? Fine, go ask in ORR, maybe you'll get lucky. Personaly I would very much like an improved FMB with triggers/events/random things. Now , that I will call immersion in home made missions/campaign.Not a 3d spinning prop.But as I said,go ask in ORR,maybe this stuff is really simple to implement.

Zayets out

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/Zayets-sigIAR.jpg

Obi_Kwiet
06-16-2004, 04:00 PM
Like I said if it's easy to do go ahead. It would be a nice idea for BOB though.

Locust_
06-16-2004, 04:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slush69:
OMG! I will immediately erase FB from my drive!

/slush

http://www.wilcks.dk/lort/Eurotrolls.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

dont do it man ull never get it to reinstall LOL

Seriousley tho Ive noticed the skimpy props but O WELL its all about the Mud pounding & Dog fighting I think you will live but would be nice to see FAT props...

My bigest complaint is how can 2x 1000 pound bomb land 1 foot from a tank & not destroy it HELLO!!!!!!!

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/p38loco1sig.jpg

Mitlov47
06-16-2004, 04:21 PM
mpsc00--

I'm sorry so many trolls have attacked this thread.

I'll admit that I never noticed this until now, and it doesn't matter as much to me as it does to you. I'll agree that the first B-17 image you posted has very nice, very realistic looking props.

Would you feel better if all props in BoB were like the BF-109 in FB? Since that's already implemented on one plane, it couldn't be too hard to apply it to all for BoB. It doesn't look as perfect as the B-17 prop you showed, but I have a sneaky feeling that B-17 prop is a framerate drain or something.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/387_1087375867_dorasig2.jpg

Achilles97
06-17-2004, 07:51 AM
I agree with mpsc00. I've noticed the props and wish they looked a little more realistic. BUT, I am aware that the game can't do everything, and to keep it playable some unnecessary details have to be kept to a minimum. But, that doesn't mean a guy can't comment about the game in the game's forum.

There have been times that I've watched real-life gun-cam footage and noticed the spinning prop and thought about the way il2's props look.

I wish it was possible to have an actual 3d modeled propellor that actual spun, instead of an image of a prop in motion. BUT, I wouldn't want to pay that price in playability (fps).

_Bootlegger_
06-17-2004, 08:29 AM
You want to talk about immersion killing....

Has anyone other than me ever noticed that when you fly an I-153 that you can't actually feel the wind in your face ?



Man, if the thickness of a spinning prop is your single, major complaint about FB then I would have to speculate that you MUST be sitting in front of the greatest combat flight sim ever made!

24 beers in a case.
24 hours in a day.
Coincidence...I think not !!!

-HH-Dubbo
06-17-2004, 12:32 PM
Once again, he is not talking about or even asking that they be changed for this game...FB....

He is asking if perhaps someone could look at the graphic and perhaps improve on it for the upcoming Battle of Britain. BoB.

Maybe the title of the thread is bit misleading. It wouldn't be the first.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

http://www.angelfire.com/falcon/nightschpanker/crashoz.jpg
Kermit the Frog is actually a south paw.

DuxCorvan
06-17-2004, 12:54 PM
Let's kill mpsc00! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

He won't kidnap and rape another little girl again, after killing a priest and drink blood in his skull! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

What? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif He just said FB prop discs decrease his immersion? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Er... sorry. I only read some of the posts here and thought... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Boys, I think you need a cool drink right now. Summer heat is near, and rises blood pressure a lot. Some people seem to have gunpowder under their a$$es. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Good vibrations, mmmmm? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif

- Dux Corvan -
http://www.uploadit.org/DuxCorvan/Altamira2.jpg
Ten thousand years of Cantabrian skinning.

KcDohl
06-17-2004, 01:07 PM
*cough* disappearing aircraft *cough*
Have people forgotten about this issue? Whatever...

I've also noticed the flatness of some of the propellers, but thought it was just me being a picky anal-retentive obsessive compulsive psycho. I guess not... I'm all for realism, and it's these seemingly mundane things that tend to stand out the most, because they're the easiest to fix.

&gt;&gt;K

_Bootlegger_
06-17-2004, 01:53 PM
I bet if this game was 53,582,997 MBs in size they could put everything everybody ever wanted into it.

I need to find myself a girl whose name doesn't end in JPEG !!!

Snuffy_Hadden
06-19-2004, 05:18 PM
Pesonally I don't see what the problem is.

You start your aircraft with a perfectly modeled prop. It has thickness and etc modeled on it. Why do you have to change to a "propdisc" when all you have to do is program the prop to spin at the specified RPMs?

As far as pitch and etc., goes I don't think its that necessary, but if you want to get annal about it ... yet it would be cool and it would be a very difficult thing to do ... but to have the raw propellers already modeled with care, just spin those suckers fast enough and you have an accurate prop spin. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TAGERT.
06-19-2004, 05:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mpsc00:
Thanks for the attention - hope I didn't waste your time! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Cheers...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Let me see if I understand this correctly.. Out of all the things missing from a sim vs. reality this one made the top of your list?

http://www.geocities.com/grantsenn/kickme.jpg
TAGERT

crazyivan1970
06-19-2004, 07:35 PM
hey hey, relax people or i`ll open my travel agency in the middle of the night. I am not agreeing with original poster, but if this is how he feels about it, then at least respect that. No need to slam the man for having an opinion. Ok?

I think you folks got a little bit too relaxed since i was absent....now, where is my stick http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

mpsc00
06-19-2004, 08:15 PM
Ok - first of all I had no intention of posting on these boards again - and yes, because of the absolutely (in my narrow minded view) unfounded degree of linguistic abuse of my original remarks (and hereby I primarily direct the attention towards 'Crash's (or what the bloody pseudonym 'he' goes by) thread)... I really had no intention as proclaiming my self as a 'generel' whiner or any as such, but simply stating an observation by which I had certain immersive 'problems' regarding this Sim (FB red.)... And YES, I know that my wording in the original post might have upset a few people in regards to the immediate terminology, but again I was simply stating an observation in which I had a strong confidence would do a world of difference in the case, it would be 'corrected'/changed/'redeemed (or what the hell kind of word, you 'veterans of the boards' might find appropriate...! I just do not understand WHY I must be ridiculed on the basis of an OBSERVATION!! And if I must repeat an earlier comment, I do not understand the reluctance in accepting the fact, that even though the aircraft in this sim are meant to be rightfully representatives of their real life counterparts, the propellers are displayed as a flat disc... Again this is ONLY an OBSERVATION, and by NO MEANS meant as a complaint directed at FB - my original post might have come on a bit strong, but my only intention was to draw the attention towards a rarely discussed area of the modelling of the aircrafts, which form the absolute centre of any sim! And to degrade this comment by drawing parallels to 'whining' (and yes, I know it was sarcastic (in the TRUE meaning of the word!)) about the representation of pepples in the sim, is downright IDIOTIC!!!
Again, I must appologize for my choice of wording in the original post - but I likewise feel, that I deserve an appology from the abuse presented on these boards - I know, that some agree with my original sentiments (and for that I am thankfull), but I likewise am very well aware of the fact, that a majority disagree - and that is just fine, IF these posters would just state their disagreement in an orderly fashion and NOT resort themselves to the kind of posting, that I have been witness to - and a victim of I might add... I have the utmost respect for the integrety of these boards, but it is very hard for me to remain positive about the quality of discussion given the replies - and comments - to this thread!
Cheers...!

P.S. Sorry if I missed a few spellingerrors, or if I have expressed myself in a wrongfull manner - but english is not my main language... and I'm drunk! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4081/Absentminded4.jpg

[This message was edited by mpsc00 on Sat June 19 2004 at 07:33 PM.]

Riceball88
06-19-2004, 08:18 PM
You Tell Em Ivan!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Uber_Numpty
06-20-2004, 12:54 AM
Be who you want, say what you mean. Because those that matter won't mind, and those that mind don't matter...

(what about the straight roads, the gaps in the wings on wide FOV, the huge muzzle flash, the pilots ties, when I get shot I don't actually die, or have I and gone to hell?....) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

nevermind...got to fly...

www.cudubh.com (http://www.cudubh.com)

[This message was edited by Uber_Numpty on Sun June 20 2004 at 12:50 AM.]

Dawg-of-death
06-20-2004, 01:09 AM
I cant see the prop disk from in the cockpit.................

BadM-F(Mongrel-Fighter)...... AKA Dawg-of-death
Former Member... Kelly Johnsons...Skunk Works

mpsc00
06-20-2004, 01:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dawg-of-death:
I cant see the prop disk from in the cockpit.................
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You still don't get it, do you?!

--

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Uber_Numpty:
Be who you want, say what you mean. Because those that matter won't mind, and those that mind don't matter...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And you're absolutely right - but hard not to take offense (reg. earlier posts)...

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4081/Absentminded4.jpg

[This message was edited by mpsc00 on Sun June 20 2004 at 01:10 AM.]

[This message was edited by mpsc00 on Sun June 20 2004 at 01:10 AM.]

Uber_Numpty
06-20-2004, 02:34 AM
there seem to be a few quite agressive, pompus, folks here (in wee cliques...lol) sometimes I wonder if some of these folks are really quite different in real life (maybe bullied at school or something... lol) and try to overcompensate here?...

who knows who cares?...

got to fly...

www.cudubh.com (http://www.cudubh.com)