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Apolloassn13
12-09-2017, 10:37 PM
U guys need to do something about the Lawbringers who shove and light spam like punks, it wouldn't be a problem if that sht wasn't practically gaurenteed after a stupid block.

JadeBosson.
12-10-2017, 07:58 AM
lol

grossbelly
12-10-2017, 08:34 AM
It's kinda funny. Until you get to a wall.

Knight_Raime
12-10-2017, 12:55 PM
Yeah block shove is something I absolutely don't think should be in this game.
Same with conq getting a GB from blocking a heavy.

Hormly
12-10-2017, 01:35 PM
Yeah the lawbro is one of the most poorly designed of the OG's. hope hes up for an overhaul after kensei conq and zerk

Illyrian_King
12-10-2017, 03:49 PM
Block Shove is not unfair.

It's just about timing you can learn, if you shall dodge or counter guardbreak ... if you dodge you can even punish the Lawbringer with most heroes due to their dodge attacks --> where is your problem?

Ackturi
12-10-2017, 05:03 PM
Block Shove is not unfair.

It's just about timing you can learn, if you shall dodge or counter guardbreak ... if you dodge you can even punish the Lawbringer with most heroes due to their dodge attacks --> where is your problem?

problem is the lag compensation when the light comes out so fast for some people it's the same speed as the gb so it's more 50/50 than anything. Maybe when "servers" come it'll be easier to deal with like most other issues.

Illyrian_King
12-11-2017, 01:23 AM
problem is the lag compensation when the light comes out so fast for some people it's the same speed as the gb so it's more 50/50 than anything. Maybe when "servers" come it'll be easier to deal with like most other issues.

Well I don't have this problems fortunately, so I don't have to problems with this block shove and that's why it seems fair to me ... since I even trigger my enemy LBs to do a block shove so I can punish them ^^

But I can understand people, who deal with lags, etc.

I can just speak for people who don't face any delays ... it's easy to react in 9/10 times

High-Horse
12-11-2017, 04:54 PM
As an assassin, kensei, valk, etc. you can deflect the light every time. If they try to GB your deflect attempt, you can break the GB with a dodge attack. Kinda sucks for everyone else, especially with slow dodge times.

However, I'm pretty sure the light has to come out immediately, otherwise there's no chained light and their next attack or GB will come out slower. Dodge if you see the red indicator, wait if you don't. Also watch out for a chained heavy from Shove.

Things like LB's block/shove and Conq's superior block should be on a Reflex system that has be timed with block to get the effect, and give enemies a chance to get around it.

Erhanninja
12-11-2017, 08:28 PM
They made a character based on turtling. Nearly all of LB I played against they just turtle. Or they impale from behind and you bound to hit a wall coz maps are small and they gank you are dead. There should be a way to get out of it in the middle.

That top light attack I think fastest attack in the game. I played against a LB he would kill you with top light only. You canít change stance coz you get hit. You canít block coz itís very fast.

Guaranteed light after blocking a bit stupid but yeah okay. But even without blocking my attack I always get hit by light after shove. I can dodge the attack but I canít block it. How does that work?

High-Horse
12-12-2017, 12:15 AM
They made a character based on turtling. Nearly all of LB I played against they just turtle. Or they impale from behind and you bound to hit a wall coz maps are small and they gank you are dead. There should be a way to get out of it in the middle.

That top light attack I think fastest attack in the game. I played against a LB he would kill you with top light only. You can’t change stance coz you get hit. You can’t block coz it’s very fast.

Guaranteed light after blocking a bit stupid but yeah okay. But even without blocking my attack I always get hit by light after shove. I can dodge the attack but I can’t block it. How does that work?

Most characters are good for turtling because of things that have little to do with their class and more to do with how parry works.

The top light is 500ms iirc, which is the same as a handful of other lights.

The light after a shove is not guaranteed, it's just fast and the shove disables blocking it.

DoodTheMan
12-12-2017, 04:06 AM
"Let me guess, someone stole your sweetroll."

Knight_Raime
12-12-2017, 04:10 AM
Block Shove is not unfair.

It's just about timing you can learn, if you shall dodge or counter guardbreak ... if you dodge you can even punish the Lawbringer with most heroes due to their dodge attacks --> where is your problem?

that's not the point. it's that it's too much of a reward just for blocking an attack.

Erhanninja
12-12-2017, 11:41 AM
Itís not guaranteed but shove disables blocking and itís fast? What do you mean? That sounds guaranteed to me.

BarbeQMichael
12-12-2017, 11:52 AM
That top light attack I think fastest attack in the game. I played against a LB he would kill you with top light only. You canít change stance coz you get hit. You canít block coz itís very fast.


It is 500ms, every assassin and some normal chars do 500ms lights from some if not every direction. And this comes only from top so how you cannot block it? All you have to do is to move guard to top and do nothing. Parrying is completely different story for that fast attacks.


Itís not guaranteed but shove disables blocking and itís fast? What do you mean? That sounds guaranteed to me.
It means you cannot block it, but you can dodge it. You are screwed though if you try to dodge and he does gb instead so you might want to eat the light as a lower risk.

Apolloassn13
12-12-2017, 04:07 PM
"Let me guess, someone stole your sweetroll."
No but I stole your mothers virginity, don't come for me.

Apolloassn13
12-12-2017, 04:09 PM
They made a character based on turtling. Nearly all of LB I played against they just turtle. Or they impale from behind and you bound to hit a wall coz maps are small and they gank you are dead. There should be a way to get out of it in the middle.

That top light attack I think fastest attack in the game. I played against a LB he would kill you with top light only. You canít change stance coz you get hit. You canít block coz itís very fast.

Guaranteed light after blocking a bit stupid but yeah okay. But even without blocking my attack I always get hit by light after shove. I can dodge the attack but I canít block it. How does that work?

Especially as a cent main, fcker is hard to open up. If I try to legion kick he dodges to the side, shoved then light hit.

Vakris_One
12-12-2017, 04:30 PM
I have two problems with LB's block.
1) It's too much of a reward simply for blocking any kind of normal attack. The Conq only gets a reward off of heavy attacks which I feel is much fairer than LB.

2) It's a 50/50 that is almost as annoying as the Warden's shoulder bash. If you don't dodge after block shove you get hit with his follow up. If you do dodge you open yourself up to getting GBed. It's just not fun to play a guessing game with your opponent for every block he makes.

I think Lawbringer needs a complete rework because much like the Warden most of his game relies on initiating a 50/50 guessing game.

PDXGorechild
12-12-2017, 04:45 PM
I think Lawbringer needs a complete rework because much like the Warden most of his game relies on initiating a 50/50 guessing game.

Yep totally agree. LB is forced into this play-style because he doesn't have many other options, like Conqueror. Boring to play as or against.

Hoping that he's in the next batch of reworks and they have a look at his and some other classes overly rewarding defence mechanisms.

Arekonator
12-12-2017, 06:11 PM
Uhm,

just roll away, lol

Illyrian_King
12-12-2017, 09:48 PM
I have two problems with LB's block.
1) It's too much of a reward simply for blocking any kind of normal attack. The Conq only gets a reward off of heavy attacks which I feel is much fairer than LB.

2) It's a 50/50 that is almost as annoying as the Warden's shoulder bash. If you don't dodge after block shove you get hit with his follow up. If you do dodge you open yourself up to getting GBed. It's just not fun to play a guessing game with your opponent for every block he makes.

I think Lawbringer needs a complete rework because much like the Warden most of his game relies on initiating a 50/50 guessing game.

Again ... you can punish the LB with dodge attacks with most classes and there is a proper time window for you to react if you shall dodge or stay and counter gb. There is NO 50/50 since you are just forced into a reaction that can hurt the LB.
There is no lag compensation at the moment and i understand that, but please wait for the dedicated servers to fix that, before asking to replace or take away the most iconic tool of a class. The LB is THE counter attacker. That's his role and other classes have way more OP tools.
The LB needs his block shove because he is too slow to interrupt an enemy chain elsehow, and there can't be a serious "rework" that makes him faster, because even now he swings his halberd unrrealistically fast!

Erhanninja
12-12-2017, 10:37 PM
Again ... you can punish the LB with dodge attacks with most classes and there is a proper time window for you to react if you shall dodge or stay and counter gb. There is NO 50/50 since you are just forced into a reaction that can hurt the LB.
There is no lag compensation at the moment and i understand that, but please wait for the dedicated servers to fix that, before asking to replace or take away the most iconic tool of a class. The LB is THE counter attacker. That's his role and other classes have way more OP tools.
The LB needs his block shove because he is too slow to interrupt an enemy chain elsehow, and there can't be a serious "rework" that makes him faster, because even now he swings his halberd unrrealistically fast!

LW can just do the shove and feint and he will parry your side step attack.

High-Horse
12-12-2017, 10:42 PM
Again ... you can punish the LB with dodge attacks with most classes and there is a proper time window for you to react if you shall dodge or stay and counter gb. There is NO 50/50 since you are just forced into a reaction that can hurt the LB.
There is no lag compensation at the moment and i understand that, but please wait for the dedicated servers to fix that, before asking to replace or take away the most iconic tool of a class. The LB is THE counter attacker. That's his role and other classes have way more OP tools.
The LB needs his block shove because he is too slow to interrupt an enemy chain elsehow, and there can't be a serious "rework" that makes him faster, because even now he swings his halberd unrrealistically fast!

The point of the rework is to build an alternative foundation the classes can rely on. I hope they will still resemble the original movesets, but things like Block/Shove and Conq's Superior Block will likely be changed to be either less rewarding or more difficult to pull off. I agree with others here that it's too much reward for so little effort. It's not fun to fight against a class that has so few options. They pull off the same move which forces you to react in the same way, and ten more times of that and one of you is dead. Not dynamic, not exactly challenging, just boring.

Illyrian_King
12-13-2017, 12:46 AM
LW can just do the shove and feint and he will parry your side step attack.

And you mean this 100% serious mate? ^^

First you can't feint a light attack and second nobody feints a heavy after shove ... it's like the worst you can get out of shove --> never seen that even in high tier!




The point of the rework is to build an alternative foundation the classes can rely on. I hope they will still resemble the original movesets, but things like Block/Shove and Conq's Superior Block will likely be changed to be either less rewarding or more difficult to pull off. I agree with others here that it's too much reward for so little effort. It's not fun to fight against a class that has so few options. They pull off the same move which forces you to react in the same way, and ten more times of that and one of you is dead. Not dynamic, not exactly challenging, just boring.

Conq's All Block is already All Crap since you can simply gb it with guarante :rolleyes:

Well I main LB since launch and I can just tell you that a good LB doesn't rely on his block shove, because people punish it too often so I use it just sometimes, when I think that my enemy doesn't expect it.
Where is the "reward"?
Often I hit enemy LBs to make them shove me so I can punish them when I play PK ... as I said: I don't have any network problems, so I can punish it 9/10 times.

But okay if you really want to remove block shove, so please also remove other iconic things like Wardens Shoulder Bash (too much reward for just catching you in the first 300ms), Peacekeepers gb triple stabs (too much reward for a single gb), Centurions Cutscene (too much reward for a parry), Gladiators toe stab (too much reward for every attack imaginable), Warlords Full Block Counters (too much reward for just pressing C), Shamans Blood Trance and Vampire Bite (raelly need an explaination?!), Shugokis Bear Hug (too much reward for losing a fight), Shinobis Double Dash Kick (too much reward for jumping around) and Aramushas Chain (to much reward for ... fighting an assassin)

Whoever is without sins may throw the first stone ^^

The heroes I didn't mention will get their reworks and lets see what we can complain about later then.

High-Horse
12-13-2017, 12:56 AM
And you mean this 100% serious mate? ^^

First you can't feint a light attack and second nobody feints a heavy after shove ... it's like the worst you can get out of shove --> never seen that even in high tier!





Conq's All Block is already All Crap since you can simply gb it with guarante :rolleyes:

Well I main LB since launch and I can just tell you that a good LB doesn't rely on his block shove, because people punish it too often so I use it just sometimes, when I think that my enemy doesn't expect it.
Where is the "reward"?
Often I hit enemy LBs to make them shove me so I can punish them when I play PK ... as I said: I don't have any network problems, so I can punish it 9/10 times.

But okay if you really want to remove block shove, so please also remove other iconic things like Wardens Shoulder Bash (too much reward for just catching you in the first 300ms), Peacekeepers gb triple stabs (too much reward for a single gb), Centurions Cutscene (too much reward for a parry), Gladiators toe stab (too much reward for every attack imaginable), Warlords Full Block Counters (too much reward for just pressing C), Shamans Blood Trance and Vampire Bite (raelly need an explaination?!), Shugokis Bear Hug (too much reward for losing a fight), Shinobis Double Dash Kick (too much reward for jumping around) and Aramushas Chain (to much reward for ... fighting an assassin)

Whoever is without sins may throw the first stone ^^

The heroes I didn't mention will get their reworks and lets see what we can complain about later then.

I'm not talking about Conq's All Block, but the Superior Block property they have from a normal block. It will interrupt and blockstun a heavy attack long enough to confirm a GB. That's just blocking. LB's Shove after a block is pretty much guaranteed, drains some stamina, and opens up 3 options: A turbo light that can't be blocked because of the Shove stagger, a GB to catch people predicting the turbo light, and a heavy because sometimes a random heavy can throw off your timing, and feinting it is legit because the red indicator will still flash and make people think it's a light. I've just started playing more LB coming from Kensei and Berserker and I'm surprised how often it lands, especially if they dodge right into it expecting a light. Shove is very strong but basically the best move they have. The rest of the kit is a blast, actually, so they only need to take some focus off of Block Shove, not remove it entirely. It's a great mixup tool but too easy to use vs how difficult it is to counter.

Illyrian_King
12-13-2017, 01:52 AM
I'm not talking about Conq's All Block, but the Superior Block property they have from a normal block. It will interrupt and blockstun a heavy attack long enough to confirm a GB. That's just blocking. LB's Shove after a block is pretty much guaranteed, drains some stamina, and opens up 3 options: A turbo light that can't be blocked because of the Shove stagger, a GB to catch people predicting the turbo light, and a heavy because sometimes a random heavy can throw off your timing, and feinting it is legit because the red indicator will still flash and make people think it's a light. I've just started playing more LB coming from Kensei and Berserker and I'm surprised how often it lands, especially if they dodge right into it expecting a light. Shove is very strong but basically the best move they have. The rest of the kit is a blast, actually, so they only need to take some focus off of Block Shove, not remove it entirely. It's a great mixup tool but too easy to use vs how difficult it is to counter.

I liked Ubi's philosophy to deal with OP characters by not nerfing them, but also buffing everbody else instead. I don't think they will remove that super block of Conq, but just give him some more moves to get him some more options. At least I hope so :rolleyes:

About LB: I played LB since launch and his kit is pretty strong even. As I said, I don't rely on block shove. I use his impale on sprint and parry, his unblockables (pretty useful), his top light and also his "overthrow" ability on blind targets and ALSO shove in normal and block version.

The only nerf I would accept with a smiley was it to remove the "guarante status" of his light follow up ONLY after a BLOCK shove and not with the normal one. But I want to keep his block shove, because it's his only tool that is really shining out.

And as mentioned above ... other classes have their OP moves too.

Bl0wH4rd74728
12-13-2017, 02:33 AM
U guys need to do something about the Lawbringers who shove and light spam like punks, it wouldn't be a problem if that sht wasn't practically gaurenteed after a stupid block.

Are you the pk that was spamming light over an over so i decided to spam light shove on you to teach you a lesson? 😂

KotoKuraken
12-13-2017, 02:56 AM
Just poppin in to let you know....light is not guaranteed. You can dodge to the side to avoid it. He might go for a guardbreak instead, but it's not guaranteed to have a light hit you

Vakris_One
12-13-2017, 06:31 AM
The point of the rework is to build an alternative foundation the classes can rely on. I hope they will still resemble the original movesets, but things like Block/Shove and Conq's Superior Block will likely be changed to be either less rewarding or more difficult to pull off. I agree with others here that it's too much reward for so little effort. It's not fun to fight against a class that has so few options. They pull off the same move which forces you to react in the same way, and ten more times of that and one of you is dead. Not dynamic, not exactly challenging, just boring.
^ Very well said.


Again ... you can punish the LB with dodge attacks with most classes and there is a proper time window for you to react if you shall dodge or stay and counter gb. There is NO 50/50 since you are just forced into a reaction that can hurt the LB.
There is no lag compensation at the moment and i understand that, but please wait for the dedicated servers to fix that, before asking to replace or take away the most iconic tool of a class. The LB is THE counter attacker. That's his role and other classes have way more OP tools.
The LB needs his block shove because he is too slow to interrupt an enemy chain elsehow, and there can't be a serious "rework" that makes him faster, because even now he swings his halberd unrrealistically fast!
I am not asking to take anything away from LB. I am asking for more viable options to be incorporated into his kit so that he doesn't have to rely almost entirely on his blockshove. High Horse put it really well that the point is to build an alternative foundation, one that should resemble the original moveset but expand upon the options a character has. Thereby giving the LB more not less and at the same time making him less boring to fight against. A win, win for everyone. I don't want to see any character lose movesets I want them all to be given more options and then the more problematic moves appropriately tweaked in terms of damage numbers/recovery/amount of reward vs risk, etc

With LB most of the time it feels like I'm having to guess whether he'll use his light or go for GB as his light usually hits me before I can react to it if I stay and wait. Thereby I am having to predict in advance whether he will go for GB or light based on his previous attack patterns. If he mixes it up randomly I have a very hard time trying to pre-empt his choices and I resort to guessing. To me that is a 50/50 because I am having to guess instead of genuinly being able to read his actions after Blockshove and react to them. It could be I need to further hone my observation skills, I am fully willing to accept that I might need to improve. If it is something that I cannot improve about myself however, like lag or the removal of timesnap/no lag compensation then that would really suck.

Secondly, it is the fact that fighting LB's is exactly the same thing every time. Blockshove > light, GB attempt, Blockshove > GB, Blockshove > light, Blockshove > GB, feint, feint, GB attempt, Blockshove > GB, Blockshove > light, Blockshove > GB. With an occassional top light thrown in if they're feeling frisky. It's boring having to ward off the same move over and over again 20 times until one of us is dead. Warden, Conq and Shugoki suffer from the same thing and that is why I think all of these characters need reworks to give them more variety and make fighting them a more dynamic affair.

For reference (and to alleviate my wall of text) here's an example that I recorded of the typical LB fight that I refer to:


https://youtu.be/7AvrNsUFr_E

^ I do make plenty of mistakes but at least that made for a slighty less boring fight to watch :)

Apolloassn13
12-13-2017, 01:38 PM
Are you the pk that was spamming light over an over so i decided to spam light shove on you to teach you a lesson? 😂

Seeing as how I've never once touched the PK I HiGhLy doubt it. If you're just gonna try to be a ******* u can leave, or u can stay and actually give constructive feedback and I clearly stated in my other post that I main centurion bro.