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View Full Version : Deflect VS Parrying



Dane520123
11-26-2017, 11:00 PM
Pros for Parry:
* stops combo
*Reduces Enemy Stamina

*Grants a guaranteed guard break

*Can chain free guard break into guaranteed heavy attack ( for most Heros)

*Can chain free guard break into a guaranteed throw

*Or Grants a guaranteed 2x Top Light for orochi

Cons for Parry:

Honestly none.

Pros for Deflect:

1.Varys on the assassin, the hero that gains more from it is the beserker because u get a gaurd break, but u can get a gaurnteed one by parrying so what's the point ??

2. Better to do when vsing light spam, cuz with the shtty connection you're most likely gonna get hit when tryina parry.

Cons for Deflect:

*No guaranteed Guard Break unless beserker

*Very risky

* little reward
* doesn't stop combos



Conclusion: Deflect needs a rework for such a risky skill it has very little reward, or parrying is just an OP thing itself so it needs a rework to.

Alustar.exe
11-26-2017, 11:13 PM
Peacekeeper is the only hero that didn't get a guaranteed GB in most other heroes, but otherwise I agree.
However, it's not the deflect itself that interrupts combos, it's the tandem hit you get when you have a successful deflect. The only hero's deflect doesn't work against are the ones with hyper armor. In those cases parry, don't deflect.
The reason most don't deflect is due to improper follow up maneuver. It's something I'm working on myself.
One thing you didn't mention in the pros is that upon proper execution of deflect with follow up you can move seamlessly into your own combo. Again the timing is very strict, the follow up hit has to be input the second deflect is initiated(get used to tapping light the second you dodge, regardless) then follow through with your own combo as the animation for the deflect+ hit is playing.

The mechanic in my opinion has always been good, is just not used much because of very strict timings.

Dane520123
11-26-2017, 11:19 PM
Parrying guarantees too much and gives too much for how easy it is to do.

Ackturi
11-26-2017, 11:23 PM
Parrying guarantees too much and gives too much for how easy it is to do.

It far exceeds the possibilities of using a deflect for a minor move... you can also cancel the parry if you see them feint for the gb. Can't do that with the deflect so you get gb for free punish.

CandleInTheDark
11-26-2017, 11:33 PM
Parrying doesn't guarantee a guardbreak against all characters, the ones with longer weapons, kensei, nobushi, I think raider, wind up too far away.

Not saying it isn't too strong, it is, but as an assassin I now there are some I am better off going for deflect.

Dane520123
11-26-2017, 11:36 PM
Parrying doesn't guarantee a guardbreak against all characters, the ones with longer weapons, kensei, nobushi, I think raider, wind up too far away.

Not saying it isn't too strong, it is, but as an assassin I now there are some I am better off going for deflect.
I think you guys are skipping over the part where I said " MOST Heros"
I know it's not all that's why I put MOST and if you meant you can't get guarantee GB on them then you're wrong, I parry them and go for GB and it works every time.

Alustar.exe
11-26-2017, 11:45 PM
Guard break is another reason most assassins don't go for deflects. It's so easy to bait a dodge and grab us because we can't counter guard break out of a dodge. That to me seems the biggest over sight to the mechanic.
You give us a really great tool to mitigate damage and counter attack but then tell us if we miss read and are trend from a soft feinted heavy, we are forced to eat damage.

David_gorda
11-26-2017, 11:50 PM
Asdassins are already overpowered compared to other classes they dont need a deflect buff. Parry doesnt guardbreak against all classes either.

Alustar.exe
11-26-2017, 11:53 PM
Asdassins are already overpowered compared to other classes they dont need a deflect buff. Parry doesnt guardbreak against all classes either.
I can't even bother with this guy anymore. Everything is over powered to him.

David_gorda
11-26-2017, 11:56 PM
I can't even bother with this guy anymore. Everything is over powered to him.
Highlander is not overpowered :)

David_gorda
11-27-2017, 12:34 AM
You are picking at what other people say so I will do the same.

Pros for Parry:
* stops combo
*Reduces Enemy Stamina

*Grants a guaranteed guard break

The ONLY time you said MOST HEROES was the heavy after GB. NOT the gb itself which they were trying to correct you on.what are you talking about? Deflect doesnt need any buffs, assassins can chose to parry or deflect plus most Of the assassin classes are high tier, like peacekeeper, gladiator and Shaman.

Ackturi
11-27-2017, 12:49 AM
what are you talking about? Deflect doesnt need any buffs, assassins can chose to parry or deflect plus most Of the assassin classes are high tier, like peacekeeper, gladiator and Shaman.

I quoted the wrong person sorry. BUT Deflect does need a buff in terms of stopping the enemy from hitting before your deflect ability hits them.

Dane520123
11-27-2017, 12:51 AM
Asdassins are already overpowered compared to other classes they dont need a deflect buff. Parry doesnt guardbreak against all classes either.
Dude If you're just going to complain just leave bro you're not helping at all, u just look like a troll.

Ackturi
11-27-2017, 12:54 AM
I think you guys are skipping over the part where I said " MOST Heros"
I know it's not all that's why I put MOST and if you meant you can't get guarantee GB on them then you're wrong, I parry them and go for GB and it works every time.

The only time you put MOST was for the free heavy after a GB. There are times when you don't get a free gb off a parry depending on distance of some heroes.

David_gorda
11-27-2017, 12:54 AM
I quoted the wrong person sorry. BUT Deflect does need a buff in terms of stopping the enemy from hitting before your deflect ability hits them.
Lol ok Np, yeah i agree if you deflect you shouldnt Get hit. No other buffs though IMO.

High-Horse
11-27-2017, 12:56 AM
Con vs parry: It incentivizes doing nothing but wait for an attack to parry.

Pro vs deflect: Style points, plus countering things like LB Shove -> Light, where I'm pretty sure parry doesn't work.

Ackturi
11-27-2017, 12:58 AM
Con vs parry: It incentivizes doing nothing but wait for an attack to parry.

Pro vs deflect: Style points, plus countering things like LB Shove -> Light, where I'm pretty sure parry doesn't work.

Which is why they 50/50 into a gb while you try to deflect so you gotta really watch for that light before you dodge.

High-Horse
11-27-2017, 01:04 AM
Which is why they 50/50 into a gb while you try to deflect so you gotta really watch for that light before you dodge.

Or be ready to use your dash attack which will break their GB attempt

Ackturi
11-27-2017, 01:05 AM
Or be ready to use your dash attack which will break their GB attempt

sadly not all have a dash attack... At least not the one I play lol..

High-Horse
11-27-2017, 01:15 AM
sadly not all have a dash attack... At least not the one I play lol..

Oh I meant if you meant to deflect and the LB waits to GB

Ackturi
11-27-2017, 01:17 AM
Oh I meant if you meant to deflect and the LB waits to GB

yeah i was talking about deflect. Shinobi doesn't have a dash attack so I just get gb i can't get out of it with an attack like the other assassins.

Devils-_-legacy
11-27-2017, 02:07 AM
Only buff I would consider is hyper armour during your deflects atm 1 v x there's no point you will deflect and get attacked stopping you in its track another thread someone said the deflect time should be increased but I find it easier then parrying

Ackturi
11-27-2017, 02:24 AM
Only buff I would consider is hyper armour during your deflects atm 1 v x there's no point you will deflect and get attacked stopping you in its track another thread someone said the deflect time should be increased but I find it easier then parrying

I think hyper armor would fix any deflect issues.

Alustar.exe
11-27-2017, 03:50 AM
I think hyper armor would fix any deflect issues.

Agreed, I've never thought of it that way. Would help in gank situations too.

Devils-_-legacy
11-27-2017, 03:17 PM
I'm glad you guys agree 😆

Herbstlicht
11-27-2017, 04:01 PM
Deflect does NOT needa you buffs.
1. Parry is going to get nerfed - indirect deflect buff
2. Deflect will NOT get you guardbroken. If you wait for the deflect and not go for the dodge, attacks should no longer be cancelable. Only dodge will.
3. Different use. Deflect doesn't work on unblockables (weapon attacks). Parry doesn't work against any kind of grab kick etc move.
(4. ) That's more of a console point. Very hard to say here what move is riskier due to inherently less frames more input lag and more display lag. Dodge attacks simply are extremely strong on console and can even be your unintended deflect but still make it not possible to guard break in many cases. Try to feint shaman into dodge attack for your free guard break.

PDXGorechild
11-27-2017, 04:17 PM
Agree with OP on the whole. Even as a Berserker I find parry is safer and more beneficial. . This problem is mainly due to Parry being too powerful rather than deflect being too weak but it could do with some tweaking for some of the Assassins in my opinion.

The single best thing about Deflect, as I read somebody else has posted earlier, is that I do it by accident as often as not. I tend to dodge more than I block or parry so those times I get a free deflect by dodging into an attack are always welcome!

Takuram
11-27-2017, 05:00 PM
I think deflect should get the after hit automatically for all heroes, just like the Zerker, except Orochi ( since he has 2 options )... the timing on deflects is too strict, specially in consoles, and you usually can only do that specific thing anyways.

Alustar.exe
11-27-2017, 05:06 PM
I think deflect should get the after hit automatically for all heroes, just like the Zerker, except Orochi ( since he has 2 options )... the timing on deflects is too strict, specially in consoles, and you usually can only do that specific thing anyways.

Start pressing light attack the second you press dodge. Don't wait for a sure deflect.

Sneaky-Patches
11-27-2017, 07:49 PM
Yeah I think deflect needs a considerable buff to be honest.

There are also more cons to it that I think OP may have missed.

- I disagree with OP that they are better for light attacks too. I still think parrying is easier and mostly more consistent. If I get hit with a light, I can usually recover quick enough to parry the next one, but what Iíve found with deflect is I generally canít recover fast enough to deflect in time (highlanders Celtic curse is the prime example, can only ever parry the second hit, never deflect it)

- you canít cancel a deflect like you can cancel a heavy if you get baited into a parry, or even just let the heavy go if they tried to feint into a GB. You always have to fully commit and hope you were right to do so with a deflect.

ónot only does it not drain enemy stamina, there is a stamina penalty of like 4-5 seconds upon deflecting! Itís actually a deathwish somtimes, if you deflect as shinobi to escape a corner, but your deflect leaves you out of stam, you have to wait 5 seconds, and then a further number of seconds for your stam bar to replenish. At this point you can nearly be kept out of stamina for a quarter of a minute, for using a move that requires the highest skill in the game for negligible damage, often 0.

- shinobis deflect is broken, bleed wonít ďtop upĒ if your enemy even has 1hp of bleed on them, your attack will do 0 damage. You can be GB in the middle and throughout the entire shadow step (a property no other attack has in the game as far as Iím aware), enemies heavies will generally track you through the shadowstep. Also often it will not even work on successful deflect (itíll make the noise but you wonít shadowstep or damage your enemy, this happens especially in ganks), itís also heavily negated damage wise by debuff stat and some heros have feats that will make it deal 0 damage. It wonít stack damage wise on multiple deflects (I have no idea why this limitation is even in the game, itís entirely unfair). If used in a gank, a parry will protect you from everyone, whereas a deflect will 99% of the time get you killed (due to above mentioned flaws of move in gank).

- many hyper armor attacks will smash you, orochi gets wrecked sometimes.

- light spam can just continue and stagger and fully ignore your deflect. Aramusha and shaman are horrible for doing this. Orochi canít even get a light attack deflect trade against spam.

-timing window is smaller than a parry. I believe a parry is 200ms and a deflect is 100ms last I checked.

I think it needs a solid buff damage wise for all heroes to varying degrees. It needs hyperarmor for all the attacks and stagger others out of their hyperarmour. And shinobi needs all these issues with it fixed. I made a thread 7, 4, and 2 months ago about these bugs (not my opinion on balance, but things that are broken with the hero) with Shinobi amoung about 15 other bugs that are broken with the character, but Iím still waiting for it to be fixed. I donít even know if it gets passed along at this point.

Anyway as it is now, itís high risk, highest skill requirement move, and has to be committed to 100% for a mediocre, mostly very low, often detrimental benefit. I DONT think it should be made easier to do, but I think the payout should certainly match the risk.

Maxime_Qc-
11-27-2017, 08:08 PM
Yes all deflect must be buffed!!!

Buff with hyperarmor

But not only it should give hyper Armor To the one who deflect ... it should also cancel hyperarmor To those who.get deflect !!

So

Peacekeeper could deflect something else than only the top heavy finisher of the berserker

Highlander could be deflect To.... right now its useless To deflect a highlander his hyperarmor allow him To keep hitting hard while toi deflect him as a pk.. as a berserker i also favor the parry on highlander and Also with shinobi ...wouod have some effect for a lot others character too...

Yesterday as a zerker i deflect shaman zone and instead of guardbreaking it slide automatically twice at the 2 first attack and then the dagger hit me ... wtf. . I don't know. ..




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