PDA

View Full Version : Hey @Ubisoft watch this breakdown on the Shaman and tell us she isn't OP



CoyoteXStarrk
11-21-2017, 04:13 AM
Found this video today while watching some of the R6 Siege videos and I thought it was a GREAT step by step explanation on how and why the Shaman is OP complete with combo breakdowns and gameplay video to back up what he is saying.


I suggest everyone take a look.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYNk6l81-r8

Tobias96716
11-21-2017, 04:43 AM
What he doesnt tell you is that everything she does can be parried and dodged with ease...he doesnt tell you that her unblockable attack only comes from one side and is slow as crap...pounce can be dodged easily and punished...it can also be stopped by a light attack since it doesnt have hyper armor....her zone can be parried since...its like the berserkers just a tad slower...i do agree that her lunge attack shouldn't be so far UNLESS there is a bleed effect on the target....tone it down maybe 10 to 15%...

CoyoteXStarrk
11-21-2017, 04:45 AM
What he doesnt tell you is that everything she does can be parried and dodged with ease...he doesnt tell you that her unblockable attack only comes from one side and is slow as crap...pounce can be dodged easily and punished...it can also be stopped by a light attack since it doesnt have hyper armor....her zone can be parried since...its like the berserkers just a tad slower...i do agree that her lunge attack shouldn't be so far UNLESS there is a bleed effect on the target....tone it down maybe 10 to 15%...

If was as easy as you claim there wouldn't be a pissed off army of people over the Shaman and how ridiculously OP she is when compared to other heroes in the game.

Tobias96716
11-21-2017, 04:51 AM
If was as easy as you claim there wouldn't be a pissed off army of people over the Shaman and how ridiculously OP she is when compared to other heroes in the game.

Every time a new hero comes out it is op until people get used to fighting them (with the exception of centurian) she has a very low stamina pool and can be 3 shot fairly easy...it is very easy to counter a shaman...hell one parry and poof her stamina is gone....if you are not good at parry or to defensive you will have a hard time beating her...she is anti turtle big time....

CoyoteXStarrk
11-21-2017, 04:52 AM
Every time a new hero comes out it is op until people get used to fighting them (with the exception of centurian) she has a very low stamina pool and can be 3 shot fairly easy...it is very easy to counter a shaman...hell one parry and poof her stamina is gone....if you are not good at parry or to defensive you will have a hard time beating her...she is anti turtle big time....

Well I am glad that kind of opinion is the minority otherwise she would never get the balance she so desperately needs right now. I just hope Ubisoft doesn't wait to long and lose all of the players that just came back.

They cannot afford to ignore her like they did with the Centurion.

Tobias96716
11-21-2017, 04:58 AM
If was as easy as you claim there wouldn't be a pissed off army of people over the Shaman and how ridiculously OP she is when compared to other heroes in the game.


Well I am glad that kind of opinion is the minority otherwise she would never get the balance she so desperately needs right now. I just hope Ubisoft doesn't wait to long and lose all of the players that just came back.

They cannot afford to ignore her like they did with the Centurion.

Like i said...she judt came out and people dont know how to defend against her just yet...its sad people call nerf because they dont want to learn how to counter her....they just scream nerf instead of actually learning....just like Shinobi...they screamed nerf and they made shinobi useless until recently...learn to play Shaman....or practice against shaman bots...to learn how to counter her...its really not that hard...

CoyoteXStarrk
11-21-2017, 05:08 AM
Like i said...she judt came out and people dont know how to defend against her just yet...its sad people call nerf because they dont want to learn how to counter her....they just scream nerf instead of actually learning....just like Shinobi...they screamed nerf and they made shinobi useless until recently...learn to play Shaman....or practice against shaman bots...to learn how to counter her...its really not that hard...

Once again...if it was as easy as you claim you wouldn't have the majority of players complaining like they are. The fact that its a LOT of people should tell you that its not just the butthurt minority that is complaining here.


Is she counter-able? yes. But she is also LEAGUES ahead of any other hero in any other department. She is fast, she does huge amounts of damage and has an unblockable Shugoki tackle that not only comes out instantly for HUGE damage, but also heals her and restores her stamina bar in the process.


She is broken. Her whole kit needs adjusting not just the speed of her attacks and thats whta Ubisoft will have to do if it wants to retain ANY of its players.



People will NOT sit around for 2 months again while Ubisoft does NOTHING to balance a hero like they did with Centurion. Their decision on how to handle Shaman and how soon they make it will make or break this game for ALOT of players.

The_B0G_
11-21-2017, 05:12 AM
An ungeared shaman can do 40+ damage with a side heavy. Shes a bleed damage character with high regular damage and a pounce that seems like it has 10-15 feet range. Oh she's OP alright.

Her and Arumusa both are. His light spam is destroying on console. These Devs are complete idiots. I have no patience left for them, they don't know wtf they are doing. They definitely have no clue how to balance characters.

Tobias96716
11-21-2017, 05:20 AM
Once again...if it was as easy as you claim you wouldn't have the majority of players complaining like they are. The fact that its a LOT of people should tell you that its not just the butthurt minority that is complaining here.


Is she counter-able? yes. But she is also LEAGUES ahead of any other hero in any other department. She is fast, she does huge amounts of damage and has an unblockable Shugoki tackle that not only comes out instantly for HUGE damage, but also heals her and restores her stamina bar in the process.


She is broken. Her whole kit needs adjusting not just the speed of her attacks and thats whta Ubisoft will have to do if it wants to retain ANY of its players.



People will NOT sit around for 2 months again while Ubisoft does NOTHING to balance a hero like they did with Centurion. Their decision on how to handle Shaman and how soon they make it will make or break this game for ALOT of players.

She only tackles if the target is bleeding...and it can be dodged or she can be taken out of it by just attacking since she does not have hyper armor. The heal she gets isnt even that great...in no way a game changer....her stamina pool is very low...i think it is the lowest of all hero's...since 1 parry can put her out of stamina...she cant just keep spamming attacks like other hero's so she has high burst damage....low stam with high burst is a fair trade off...easily parried...easily punished if missing a pounce...like i said people calling for nerfs only because they dont know how to counter her just yet...

The_B0G_
11-21-2017, 06:00 AM
She only tackles if the target is bleeding...and it can be dodged or she can be taken out of it by just attacking since she does not have hyper armor. The heal she gets isnt even that great...in no way a game changer....her stamina pool is very low...i think it is the lowest of all hero's...since 1 parry can put her out of stamina...she cant just keep spamming attacks like other hero's so she has high burst damage....low stam with high burst is a fair trade off...easily parried...easily punished if missing a pounce...like i said people calling for nerfs only because they dont know how to counter her just yet...

Her pounce is basically unreactable, on console at least, maybe if she's 10 feet away. If she's close, you're done. She's a BS character like almost every other DLC character, they are all 10 times more in depth than any original hero.

CoyoteXStarrk
11-21-2017, 06:09 AM
Her pounce is basically unreactable, on console at least, maybe if she's 10 feet away. If she's close, you're done. She's a BS character like almost every other DLC character, they are all 10 times more in depth than any original hero.

Agree 1000%

Baturai
11-21-2017, 07:09 AM
"Game" Deleted. This is not the First Time They are doing this. Simple as that.

CandleInTheDark
11-21-2017, 05:03 PM
Her pounce is basically unreactable, on console at least, maybe if she's 10 feet away. If she's close, you're done. She's a BS character like almost every other DLC character, they are all 10 times more in depth than any original hero.

I would agree that Ubisoft screwed up if we didn't know that reworks were coming and that the first batch were lower tier characters.

As to predator's mercy, firstly I agree that the tracking needs dealing with (and it is being),I would also think distance, I would say the same about her dodge forward/back heavy, but the claim that predator's mercy is all a shugoki has without any drawbacks is false.

Firstly, the claim that it is everything demon's embrace is is false right off the bat, it doesn't have scaling damage nor the capability to one hit KO. Now is there an argument that the damage can be reduced? I would say yes there is an argument for it at least.

The next most popular claim is Shugoki has to get a wallsplat so that he can do demon's embrace and predator's mercy is unfair because of this. First of all, he doesn't actually have to get a wallsplat,it is safer to, yes, but he can pull it off at any time, the damage on miss is there so he can't spam it risk free.The shaman on the other hand has to have her opponent bleeding before she can pull it off and that is an absolute necessity, she doesn't get it otherwise.

As to pulling it off,demon's embrace is actually stronger if the shugoki has hyper armour when going for it. A shaman can be hit out of predator's mercy with a light. Even when she hits it in a 4v4 setting, the cc capability is greatly reduced, you can swing heavies at the shugoki during the animation, do that to the shaman and the enemy only takes your heavy, no predator's mercy damage and no heal.Now a good team would wait until she has her health boost, for the most part you're not likely to pull it off if you have a teammate around you currently(very much by experience I know this).

People have also compared it to centurion's floor stab, again, she can be knocked off and the opponent isn't left there for any other passing shaman to snack on, I have been floorstabbed by two centurions, neither of which actually knocked me over, this is not possible with shaman, that was my biggest worry about the move before we got to play her, that any passing Shaman could do it.

As to dodging the predator's mercy, it isn't easy, no,part of it is on the player dodging though, their first instinct is to dodge back, not going to happen, you need to dodge to the side. You also have more warning than the activation, firstly you are bleeding, so you know you need to be reading when she is going for it, she has to dodge before that 400ms activation (so what,another 200ms if you read that?) and there is an audio cue. Which isn't to say it should not be looked at, just there is more of a window than people think before you take into account that she can be attacked out of it.

Other criticisms have been the bleed cancels and one thing I will tell you there,as a peacekeeper main, is those are harder to pull off than peacekeeper's because of the range. Unless someone is turtling to look for parries, they are not going to come off all that regularly.

Unblockable attack, this comes from the opponent's right only and is slow, you throw that out at the start of a fight and you are getting parried nine times in ten. What I have found most use in it is throwing it out after a few side dodge top heavy attack chains have been blocked or after being parried to change the parry window.

Double light in any direction? Ok,that I give you, does she really need that? One thing I will say though, people throw the term light spammer at her. Most of her light attacks have the same range as her bleed cancels, besides this, that is only going to chip away health at best, a Shaman wants you bleeding, I have already spoken about the bleed cancels, going for a deflect risks eating damage, the easiest way to bleed is actually finishing a chain whether one of those that start with a light or the heavy heavy which is easier off a dodge attack.

Ultimately she is someone who is going to make turtling a very dangerous prospect but she can be shut down. Is it right that she has this much kit though? Like I said, I would be 100% with people saying no if we did not know reworks were coming. There are things that need looking at to be certain and definitely some numbers that need to be changed,I have never once claimed she is perfectly balanced, but I'm willing to see want they do with the kensei, berserker and conqueror before calling foul because I think that rewarding people for finishing chains and for being aggressive is a good thing and if everyone has a kit that has variety and flows between one move and another, that will also be a good thing in my view, this with the fight system changes is how the defensive meta dies.

bmason1000
11-21-2017, 05:23 PM
Nailed it, Candle. On point as usual.

Maxime_Qc-
11-21-2017, 05:49 PM
Y'all just don't wanna learn , y'all stupid !!!


I allready met 2 warden that i couldn't do **** against them as shaman! When i ask them they told me they have been practicing against bot level 3 shaman for hours and friend shaman in private match... now they are kicking shaman *** easy .... take exemple !!bunch of noob

David_gorda
11-21-2017, 06:06 PM
Lol, first Guy i Dueled after practicing against bots for 1 hour was a Warden prestige 14 he was really good and could parry my lights on Playstation but i still beat him 3-2. Its such a Joke how powerful shaman is, I havent even learned all moves yet and still destroy good players.

Xaviloga
11-21-2017, 06:38 PM
Do you guys have the same feelings playing a Berserker, kensei, or any other OG hero and the Shaman? really? Its like characters of two diferents games. All DLC characters feels like they double or triple the tools the original roster had and have. The only one that didnt need a nerf was the Highlander, because how slow he is. We know all the shaman ofensive kit is counterable, or avoidable, but still have much better tools than any other hero in the game.

CandleInTheDark
11-21-2017, 06:47 PM
Do you guys have the same feelings playing a Berserker, kensei, or any other OG hero and the Shaman? really? Its like characters of two diferents games. All DLC characters feels like they double or triple the tools the original roster had and have. The only one that didnt need a nerf was the Highlander, because how slow he is. We know all the shaman ofensive kit is counterable, or avoidable, but still have much better tools than any other hero in the game.

That is why Ubi need to push out the reworks for the OG characters as quick as they can, if the first three are to this standard then we will know that any others due one,hopefully all of them, will be in for being in a good place.

UbiInsulin
11-21-2017, 08:08 PM
I would agree that Ubisoft screwed up if we didn't know that reworks were coming and that the first batch were lower tier characters.

As to predator's mercy, firstly I agree that the tracking needs dealing with (and it is being),I would also think distance, I would say the same about her dodge forward/back heavy, but the claim that predator's mercy is all a shugoki has without any drawbacks is false.

Firstly, the claim that it is everything demon's embrace is is false right off the bat, it doesn't have scaling damage nor the capability to one hit KO. Now is there an argument that the damage can be reduced? I would say yes there is an argument for it at least.

The next most popular claim is Shugoki has to get a wallsplat so that he can do demon's embrace and predator's mercy is unfair because of this. First of all, he doesn't actually have to get a wallsplat,it is safer to, yes, but he can pull it off at any time, the damage on miss is there so he can't spam it risk free.The shaman on the other hand has to have her opponent bleeding before she can pull it off and that is an absolute necessity, she doesn't get it otherwise.

As to pulling it off,demon's embrace is actually stronger if the shugoki has hyper armour when going for it. A shaman can be hit out of predator's mercy with a light. Even when she hits it in a 4v4 setting, the cc capability is greatly reduced, you can swing heavies at the shugoki during the animation, do that to the shaman and the enemy only takes your heavy, no predator's mercy damage and no heal.Now a good team would wait until she has her health boost, for the most part you're not likely to pull it off if you have a teammate around you currently(very much by experience I know this).

People have also compared it to centurion's floor stab, again, she can be knocked off and the opponent isn't left there for any other passing shaman to snack on, I have been floorstabbed by two centurions, neither of which actually knocked me over, this is not possible with shaman, that was my biggest worry about the move before we got to play her, that any passing Shaman could do it.

As to dodging the predator's mercy, it isn't easy, no,part of it is on the player dodging though, their first instinct is to dodge back, not going to happen, you need to dodge to the side. You also have more warning than the activation, firstly you are bleeding, so you know you need to be reading when she is going for it, she has to dodge before that 400ms activation (so what,another 200ms if you read that?) and there is an audio cue. Which isn't to say it should not be looked at, just there is more of a window than people think before you take into account that she can be attacked out of it.

Other criticisms have been the bleed cancels and one thing I will tell you there,as a peacekeeper main, is those are harder to pull off than peacekeeper's because of the range. Unless someone is turtling to look for parries, they are not going to come off all that regularly.

Unblockable attack, this comes from the opponent's right only and is slow, you throw that out at the start of a fight and you are getting parried nine times in ten. What I have found most use in it is throwing it out after a few side dodge top heavy attack chains have been blocked or after being parried to change the parry window.

Double light in any direction? Ok,that I give you, does she really need that? One thing I will say though, people throw the term light spammer at her. Most of her light attacks have the same range as her bleed cancels, besides this, that is only going to chip away health at best, a Shaman wants you bleeding, I have already spoken about the bleed cancels, going for a deflect risks eating damage, the easiest way to bleed is actually finishing a chain whether one of those that start with a light or the heavy heavy which is easier off a dodge attack.

Ultimately she is someone who is going to make turtling a very dangerous prospect but she can be shut down. Is it right that she has this much kit though? Like I said, I would be 100% with people saying no if we did not know reworks were coming. There are things that need looking at to be certain and definitely some numbers that need to be changed,I have never once claimed she is perfectly balanced, but I'm willing to see want they do with the kensei, berserker and conqueror before calling foul because I think that rewarding people for finishing chains and for being aggressive is a good thing and if everyone has a kit that has variety and flows between one move and another, that will also be a good thing in my view, this with the fight system changes is how the defensive meta dies.

The detailed breakdown is much appreciated, Candle.

We've been letting the team know everyone's thoughts on the Shaman's strength, so thanks very much for your continued input.

KotoKuraken
11-21-2017, 08:40 PM
From my perspective, I think Shaman has so much utility compared to the other characters. She feels like they took PK, ripped off her hood, and papa Berserker raised her in a family of wolves.
She has the same speed values for her lights and heavies like PK, can cancel heavy into guardbreak or into light bleed (but from any direction) just like PK, has the same heavy leap attacks like PK except can do the leaping from any direction or can feint it. Then to add to PK's entire moveset, she has bashes that can change into huge damage when the enemy is bleeding, heal while the enemy is bleeding, and can confirm 70 damage on an OOS knockdown.

In order to bring her into balance, either she would need to have her stats reduced, or have other older characters get additional combos/mixups to work with

Unztructor
11-21-2017, 08:43 PM
It's hilarious nobody has realized Ubisoft is just as bad as EA, they don't give a **** so long as the kids buy their season pass, who gives a **** if players are getting disconnected from games in SEASON 4!

Spectre_198
11-21-2017, 08:55 PM
Pretty sure everyone with a brain knew Ubisoft was worse than EA before this.

Spectre_198
11-21-2017, 09:14 PM
Cannot emphasize this enough; The only vanguard that stands a chance is the Kensei because he has a dodge light attack, the warden and raider are straight forward fighters meaning that they rely on parries, GB's, Feints, and the occasional unblockable which can all be countered by the newer characters. I play and Aramusha and I love to see teams with and vanguard fighters because I know its going to be easier

KotoKuraken
11-21-2017, 09:19 PM
Cannot emphasize this enough; The only vanguard that stands a chance is the Kensei because he has a dodge light attack, the warden and raider are straight forward fighters meaning that they rely on parries, GB's, Feints, and the occasional unblockable which can all be countered by the newer characters. I play and Aramusha and I love to see teams with and vanguard fighters because I know its going to be easier

oh yes, I know exactly what you're talking about https://j.gifs.com/yrwlgg.gif

Herbstlicht
11-21-2017, 09:24 PM
Seems people miss one thing. Right now the balance is not there. Shaman is in a whole new level. It's the evening's I play and wanna enjoy that count. Not some imaginary time in the future where maybe everything will be better.

For that reason alone balance issues as large as the ones currently in existence really do hurt my enjoyment of this game. Like today's evening where I will now go off to my studies.

So already the overtuned shaman is hurting the game and yet we don't have a fix. Personally, I only see how Ubi created a great moveset but completely set off the balance once again.

For me, this is an utter and complete failure. From a triple a company, even an inexcusable one. How can one be so incompetent and realease her with those numbers when she has such an insane kit?

I can't find an answer for myself.

Spectre_198
11-22-2017, 07:15 AM
Whats worse about that is that shield characters do the best against him

Xaviloga
11-22-2017, 07:32 AM
Seems people miss one thing. Right now the balance is not there. Shaman is in a whole new level. It's the evening's I play and wanna enjoy that count. Not some imaginary time in the future where maybe everything will be better.

For that reason alone balance issues as large as the ones currently in existence really do hurt my enjoyment of this game. Like today's evening where I will now go off to my studies.

So already the overtuned shaman is hurting the game and yet we don't have a fix. Personally, I only see how Ubi created a great moveset but completely set off the balance once again.

For me, this is an utter and complete failure. From a triple a company, even an inexcusable one. How can one be so incompetent and realease her with those numbers when she has such an insane kit?

I can't find an answer for myself.

They want you play these new characters, they want you spend steel on champion status to raise their level fast. They want you buy gear, executions, emotes and outfits for your new main hero. And they hope you need to buy the steel for this all with your real money. Simple like that.

PDXGorechild
11-22-2017, 02:09 PM
She feels like they took PK, ripped off her hood, and papa Berserker raised her in a family of wolves.

Best summary of the class yet.

OokiireteHoshii
11-22-2017, 08:29 PM
It looks like this game is programmed by children, i'd like to see the same effort they put for graphics to character balance and mechanics...because it's HORRIBLE.

subdude1974
11-25-2017, 07:57 PM
She is the most OP character I have ever seen in any fighting game. I would love for somebody to point out one worse. Played one the other day, went OOS and got knocked to the ground. Before I stand up I am hit with 2 heavies and a light. Then her tracking is of the charts. Did a double double with shenobi Anne literally got behind her during an attack and she turns around mid attack and hits me. She has tracked me with her pounce around a corner and even on stairs. People that talk about her unblockable being slow is ridiculous. So what. Who cares. It is a move that isnít even needed. She has a moveset that is second to none. She has so many options that keep you off balance it is insane. I laugh when people talk about Centurion being Op and her not. Or that you can dodge. If being able to dodge something is the determining factor of someone being OP, then no character should have ever been merged as there isnít a single move that couldnít be dodged at the very start. Hilarious. She should be completely overhauled. Not 1 thing is going to fix her and make her balanced. She needs to be gutted and reworked completely with a little thought out into her.

ChampionRuby50g
11-26-2017, 04:09 AM
She is the most OP character I have ever seen in any fighting game. I would love for somebody to point out one worse. Played one the other day, went OOS and got knocked to the ground. Before I stand up I am hit with 2 heavies and a light. Then her tracking is of the charts. Did a double double with shenobi Anne literally got behind her during an attack and she turns around mid attack and hits me. She has tracked me with her pounce around a corner and even on stairs. People that talk about her unblockable being slow is ridiculous. So what. Who cares. It is a move that isn’t even needed. She has a moveset that is second to none. She has so many options that keep you off balance it is insane. I laugh when people talk about Centurion being Op and her not. Or that you can dodge. If being able to dodge something is the determining factor of someone being OP, then no character should have ever been merged as there isn’t a single move that couldn’t be dodged at the very start. Hilarious. She should be completely overhauled. Not 1 thing is going to fix her and make her balanced. She needs to be gutted and reworked completely with a little thought out into her.

Getting hit with two heavies isn't something that just Shaman has as an OOS punish you know, Orochi can, Berserker can, Raider can if you count the zone and even my LB can if you time it right. Yes, the light with bleed after is a bit too much but Shaman is getting nerfed soon, maybe as soon as next week even. She does not need a whole rework, and Ubisoft know this. In her case a simple number tweak is all that's needed to tone her down. Inexpereince on your behalf is why you suggest a rework, when you look at her actual kit if you rework it takes away what she was desgined for. Aggressive play and breaking turtles. Devs also stated that her tracking was a bug and is been fixed in the next patch.

ChampionRuby50g
11-26-2017, 04:11 AM
She is the most OP character I have ever seen in any fighting game. I would love for somebody to point out one worse. Played one the other day, went OOS and got knocked to the ground. Before I stand up I am hit with 2 heavies and a light. Then her tracking is of the charts. Did a double double with shenobi Anne literally got behind her during an attack and she turns around mid attack and hits me. She has tracked me with her pounce around a corner and even on stairs. People that talk about her unblockable being slow is ridiculous. So what. Who cares. It is a move that isnít even needed. She has a moveset that is second to none. She has so many options that keep you off balance it is insane. I laugh when people talk about Centurion being Op and her not. Or that you can dodge. If being able to dodge something is the determining factor of someone being OP, then no character should have ever been merged as there isnít a single move that couldnít be dodged at the very start. Hilarious. She should be completely overhauled. Not 1 thing is going to fix her and make her balanced. She needs to be gutted and reworked completely with a little thought out into her.

Getting hit with two heavies isn't something that just Shaman has as an OOS punish you know, Orochi can, Berserker can, Raider can if you count the zone and even my LB can if you time it right. Yes, the light with bleed after is a bit too much but Shaman is getting nerfed soon, maybe as soon as next week even. She does not need a whole rework, and Ubisoft know this. In her case a simple number tweak is all that's needed to tone her down. Inexpereince on your behalf is why you suggest a rework, when you look at her actual kit if you rework it takes away what she was desgined for. Aggressive play and breaking turtles. Devs also stated that her tracking was a bug and is been fixed in the next patch.

subdude1974
11-26-2017, 07:22 AM
Two heavies and a light while on the ground is stupid. She has a moveset that is insane and has more options than any 2 characters combined. Sorry, but a simple numbers change isnít a fix. She needs to be reworked. Forget the numbers. It is hilarious that people think Centurion is OP still and sheís isnít. She is the equivalent of taking a tank to a knife fight.

subdude1974
11-26-2017, 07:26 AM
Yep. Just had one leap and curve around a tree and bite me. Yea. She just needs numbers changed. SMFH.

Playing_Mantis
11-26-2017, 07:31 AM
Yea the vid is good.. but very bias towards one side of the shaman. And no I don't main shaman.. It was hard to defeat her at first but now its so much easier to read her. what he didn't say also is that pretty much any light attack will cancel her moves. in multiplayer its impossible to get the bite off unless your solo as your stupid teammates will always hit the target and knock you out of the bite. the changes coming will nerf her back but lets root for buffing older heroes rather than the focus on nerving the new ones. I like how much she has and it exited me to know that the game is moving towards these type of characters more. imagine if all heroes were on her level of stuff vs her on the level of all other old classes. the game would be boring if all heroes lose moves and abilaties. i say the nerf are fine don't nerf her into the ground and lets just bring up the older heroes to feel more power. just learn to play against her and quit looking at the balances. focus your characters. u will be fine. shamans make me think more and thats a good thing to make me better. good job ubi! keep buffing these heroes!

Tom_Tom08
11-26-2017, 07:48 AM
I don't understand the defending of obviously overpowered characters. The fun of the game comes from solid, engaging fights. Not total blowouts by a single class. Come on people, a closer balance ensures funner fights. Sure, total shutouts may be fun for the perpetrator but not for the bloke on the receiving end. And no, it's not a learn to play issue. Every season has given edged the powercreep, it's just a matter of stating that players are notice the outliers and hope that some balance comes.

CoyoteXStarrk
11-26-2017, 07:50 AM
I don't understand the defending of obviously overpowered characters. The fun of the game comes from solid, engaging fights. Not total blowouts by a single class. Come on people, a closer balance ensures funner fights. Sure, total shutouts may be fun for the perpetrator but not for the bloke on the receiving end. And no, it's not a learn to play issue. Every season has given edged the powercreep, it's just a matter of stating that players are notice the outliers and hope that some balance comes.

Its scrubs not wanting to lose their new favorite main obviously. Thank god Ubisoft ignores them.

Erhanninja
11-26-2017, 09:45 AM
It would be pages of things if I wanted to write down everything why she needs nerf.

I play Nobushi as main. Her side lights are fast. I had so many occasions I know she is gonna pounce and she is very far away. The moment she is about to jump I press light attack she gets me before my light comes out. I roll away she gets me when I'm rolling. It even happened she tracked me nearly 90 degrees to the side. And we thought Cent tracking is bad.

Yes unblockable comes one side and it's very slow. The problem with that first of all the axe kissed your cheek and you realise it's feint and it can be cancelled into anything even a side attack. And it's a God move. She is doing side step but it's nearly as fast as normal light attack.

She rules over bridges etc. She is the goddess in tribute coz you can't even get close coz of traps. It's beyond me how she gets nail bomb coz it's Samurai feat.

I even had head on with Raider charge. She pushed me back with head butt. We were equal.. How can head butt can be same with Raider charge.

Or she catches you from behind you are dead within 2 seconds you don't even have a change to turn. Maybe different for PC players but console is slow. She jumps on you across the map. Or you turn a corner you see her but you roll away coz you know you can't counter that jump attack or pounce (no recovery) but her recovery is much greater that roll.

Same with Aramusha yeah side top side but skilled players use side to side feints etc. Same issue Swords kiss your cheek and feint into something else. That window shouldn't be that forgiving.

ShadowStepped
11-28-2017, 05:13 PM
I really hope so Candle. I will say though that i never see anyone complaining about Orochi anymore because they have been discarded and forgot about. I played all weekend and fought maybe 8 Orochi heros total and this was in dominion. It is frustrating to a degree being at a disadvantage from the start but in some aspects it is a good challenge for me.

brashtralas
11-28-2017, 06:31 PM
It would be pages of things if I wanted to write down everything why she needs nerf.

I play Nobushi as main. Her side lights are fast. I had so many occasions I know she is gonna pounce and she is very far away. The moment she is about to jump I press light attack she gets me before my light comes out. I roll away she gets me when I'm rolling. It even happened she tracked me nearly 90 degrees to the side. And we thought Cent tracking is bad.

Yes unblockable comes one side and it's very slow. The problem with that first of all the axe kissed your cheek and you realise it's feint and it can be cancelled into anything even a side attack. And it's a God move. She is doing side step but it's nearly as fast as normal light attack.

She rules over bridges etc. She is the goddess in tribute coz you can't even get close coz of traps. It's beyond me how she gets nail bomb coz it's Samurai feat.

I even had head on with Raider charge. She pushed me back with head butt. We were equal.. How can head butt can be same with Raider charge.

Or she catches you from behind you are dead within 2 seconds you don't even have a change to turn. Maybe different for PC players but console is slow. She jumps on you across the map. Or you turn a corner you see her but you roll away coz you know you can't counter that jump attack or pounce (no recovery) but her recovery is much greater that roll.

Same with Aramusha yeah side top side but skilled players use side to side feints etc. Same issue Swords kiss your cheek and feint into something else. That window shouldn't be that forgiving.

This is pretty much perfectly why sheís overpowered. Iím not sure why unblockables are feintable in the first place, but hers are feintable too far into the attack.

Then her dodge attack is so fast and damaging that you can faint an attack and not have time to punish the bait. Then itís heavy damage.

Sheís simply too good in every way, and the devs stared that she is supposed to be a jack of all trades, master of none.......

A cursory glance at her numbers show that she would be too strong, which make me question the devs intentions. Either they did this on purpose, or it was incompetence.

Both are bad news.

Card1acArrest
11-28-2017, 10:54 PM
My input on Shaman; Im rep 17 and not really good, but i can do better than roughly the half in 4vs4 and good in duels, got a few rep 3s.

Tried my Aramusha now (19) vs Shaman level 3, and wow I keep losing 95% of the rounds! Only way I can hold her off is to keep some distance, if she is reasonably close, which is supposed to be good for Aramusha (?), I get eaten alive by deflects, soft feints, pounces..

i know the nerf is coming, but guys, Ubisoft, why were you so stupid (sorry) to release her in this state?

My son is diamond class duelist, he just routinely quits every duel vs shaman (before it starts), and is FURIOUS with you guys, (he hates unfairness).

How about looking into balancing better before you release characters?

ChampionRuby50g
11-29-2017, 12:53 AM
This is pretty much perfectly why she’s overpowered. I’m not sure why unblockables are feintable in the first place, but hers are feintable too far into the attack.

Then her dodge attack is so fast and damaging that you can faint an attack and not have time to punish the bait. Then it’s heavy damage.

She’s simply too good in every way, and the devs stared that she is supposed to be a jack of all trades, master of none.......

A cursory glance at her numbers show that she would be too strong, which make me question the devs intentions. Either they did this on purpose, or it was incompetence.

Both are bad news.

Imagine if Lawbringers Unblockable was not feintable. It would literally be useless and just free damage for the opponent in any situation other than a gank. This way you can bait out parry's from OOS opponents, or regular opponents and out smart them for damage yourself. It's so slow regardless, it should be feintable. Similar with Raider's zone, its all about mindgames.

Vordred
11-29-2017, 01:06 AM
Imagine if Lawbringers Unblockable was not feintable. It would literally be useless and just free damage for the opponent in any situation other than a gank. This way you can bait out parry's from OOS opponents, or regular opponents and out smart them for damage yourself. It's so slow regardless, it should be feintable. Similar with Raider's zone, its all about mindgames.

the main issue is how late she can wit before cancelling, and the other issue is that it's a soft feint, if it was a hard feint it would be way more balanced.

personally, i don't think anyone would be able to soft feint an unblockable into a GB. in fact, i don't think any attack should soft feint into a GB. attacks should only feint into other attacks. but unblockables are the main culprit because you have two options to defend against the unblockable, dodge or parry, both are countered by the GB, making it total guesswork on your part, which is lame.

ChampionRuby50g
11-29-2017, 01:10 AM
the main issue is how late she can wit before cancelling, and the other issue is that it's a soft feint, if it was a hard fair it would be way more balenced.

personally, i don't think anyone would be able to soft feint an unblockable into a GB. in fact, i don't think any attack should soft feint into a GB. attacks should only feint into other attacks.

Yeah I could side with Shaman's unblockable not been soft feintable into GB, or anything else. I do think though, that you should be able to hard feint it.Taking away that part makes it useless, as so many people are already parrying it as they have the timing down pat.

Vordred
11-29-2017, 01:14 AM
Yeah I could side with Shaman's unblockable not been soft feintable into GB, or anything else. I do think though, that you should be able to hard feint it.Taking away that part makes it useless, as so many people are already parrying it as they have the timing down pat.

yeah, making unblockables uncancelable would make them useless, but allowing soft feint GB's is not ok, especially with how late they can do it, it's like old school warden where he could wait until the shoulder bash is almost hitting and then cancel into GB.

bananaflow2017
11-29-2017, 09:03 AM
yeah, making unblockables uncancelable would make them useless, but allowing soft feint GB's is not ok, especially with how late they can do it, it's like old school warden where he could wait until the shoulder bash is almost hitting and then cancel into GB.

A warden still can softfeint this into a gb. The time window just became smaller.
Cent can also feint a heavy into a gb.
Basicly i think thats not such a hard issue. When you are ready for a parry you can still cgb. When u dodge you cant cgb...
I think the biggest Problem with her is the punce.... broken tracking and broken hitbox...

Vordred
11-29-2017, 09:12 AM
A warden still can softfeint this into a gb. The time window just became smaller.
Cent can also feint a heavy into a gb.
Basicly i think thats not such a hard issue. When you are ready for a parry you can still cgb. When u dodge you cant cgb...
I think the biggest Problem with her is the punce.... broken tracking and broken hitbox...

yeah he can, and despite warden being my highest rep character, i still don't agree with it, but short of a warden rework not much can do about it now, but it's certainly better than it used to be.
and the cent can indeed, and no one really likes him either, but a normal heavy isn't so bad, as you don't have to dodge or parry, which mean you can still CGB if you're paying attention.

and no if you go for the parry you can't CGB, because they grab you out of your startup heavy animation. which is another issue i have, you shouldn't be able to grab people when they are attacking.

bananaflow2017
11-29-2017, 09:31 AM
yeah he can, and despite warden being my highest rep character, i still don't agree with it, but short of a warden rework not much can do about it now, but it's certainly better than it used to be.
and the cent can indeed, and no one really likes him either, but a normal heavy isn't so bad, as you don't have to dodge or parry, which mean you can still CGB if you're paying attention.

and no if you go for the parry you can't CGB, because they grab you out of your startup heavy animation. which is another issue i have, you shouldn't be able to grab people when they are attacking.

Oh can only be softfeinted or feinted before the parry timing..

Card1acArrest
11-29-2017, 03:15 PM
Probably about brain wiring;

My son dodges pounces or centurion kicks without much bother. Conq shield bashes++. For me, it seems I never get over the treshhold where my brain does it on auto; If I run heavy load onattacks, blocks and guardbreaks and maybe consider a deflect, my brain wont dodge that stupid kick or pounce in time :)

So for some people its probably not a big deal, for many others that kick or pounce leads to a lot of pain every time.